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XBO Cloud Implementation Examples

BDP

Neo Member
Can you explain what you are doing in this demo that 50 Gigaflops of local compute and a couple of mb of local ram can't?

I think you are missing the point. It's not that it couldn't be done with local compute.

It's the fact the resources otherwise used to locally compute are now available for something else.

Maybe I want killer looking grass and my characters hair/clothing to react to the environment. I can offload the grass to the cloud, free up resources on local compute to my characters hair/clothing.
 

kitch9

Banned
I think you are missing the point. It's not that it couldn't be done with local compute.

It's the fact the resources otherwise used to locally compute are now available for something else.

Maybe I want killer looking grass and my characters hair/clothing to react to the environment. I can offload the grass to the cloud, free up resources on local compute to my characters hair/clothing.

I am struggling to understand the logic in this convoluted way of doing things. Why not just make each box a bit more powerful?
 
Which would be infinitely more cost/infrastrucure efficient and better for real time game interaction.
The infrastructure is there whether they use it for Xbox compute or not. I'm not saying its without cost but it might actually be less expensive to divert certain computation remotely rather than manufacture beefy boxes at a loss.
 

ZenTzen

Member
people can talk about the power of the cloud all they want, i dont care even if it works, a game that needs a internet connection to work, only to be gutted down without it, isnt a game to me, especially if its a single player game
 

Darknight

Member
Conceptually very cool. Will remain skeptical until I play a game that uses it to that extent myself.

Same here. I think MS made the wrong call to talk about the CLOUD as something that would be apparent day1 or soon after launch. This shit is still cooking so its completely pointless to speak like it was a major feature before xbone launched. CLOUD can do this in like 2-3 years after launch...ok why should I care now?

Honestly I think MS should of kept quiet on this "feature" since its a no show. I dont care about "demos" of it. If you are gonna talk the talk, you better walk the walk. Give us a real full featured game running with this already. The tech is very interesting but I feel MS was just boasting about it since they really had nothing to "one up" Sony with it's weak hardware.
 

MacBosse

Member
I'm curious to see what kind of bandwith usage these games will have. Not that I have any bandwith cap, just out of intrest to see what kind of data we are talking about here.
 

kitch9

Banned
The infrastructure is there whether they use it for Xbox compute or not. I'm not saying its without cost but it might actually be less expensive to divert certain computation remotely rather than manufacture beefy boxes at a loss.

The Xboxs APU is larger than the PS4's which has 600 Gigaflops over the Xbox that it can dedicate to compute if needed. (Not that it will be needed.)

The cloud isn't going to even get close to the performance of that and it's a huge added complication.
 

Aroll

Member
The main reason XBO talks about this stuff is that they have the servers in place to do it. The Wii U can do it, so can the PS4, but the servers and structure (let alone tools) may not be as readily available to take advantage of it.

Plus the online only thing scares folks. Which is required in these situations.
 

Aroll

Member
people can talk about the power of the cloud all they want, i dont care even if it works, a game that needs a internet connection to work, only to be gutted down without it, isnt a game to me, especially if its a single player game

That's pretty unfair. So, how a game runs determines whether or not it is a game? When I say runs, I mean what is runs on. Whether it is the cloud, your local PC, direct streaming (say, what Sony is doing), or your local handheld/home console - what it runs on determines if it is a game?

In fact, this remark seems so silly to me - because the idea here is that games are ALREADY gutted because there is only so much you can push with set hardware specs. Yet, the cloud allows you to do more than you normally could - so games are technically always gutted when put on set hardware with no optional expansion.

I guess all the games Sony will be streaming means they aren't games since they require an internet connection. I just can't fathom how anyone can think this way. It's fine to not want to have to worry about an internet connection, and this particular developer says they have a second version that doesn't use it - and yes of course the game is gutted because it has less to work with. That means it shouldn't look better optionally when there is more to work with?

Liken it to PC settings for games. Should games only be made for the lowest common denominator of pc's and not have the ability to adjust to those who have better hardware (and thus, provide better physics, visuals, etc)? That's what this is basically. You can play games offline - but when you're online you have additional boosts to the game.

Last I checked, a video game is a way for me to find entertainment in a virtual world. You can't define it by how that virtual world is delivered.
 
The Xboxs APU is larger than the PS4's which has 600 Gigaflops over the Xbox that it can dedicate to compute if needed. (Not that it will be needed.)

The cloud isn't going to even get close to the performance of that and it's a huge added complication.
Well see what happens I guess.
 

Taurus

Member
people can talk about the power of the cloud all they want, i dont care even if it works, a game that needs a internet connection to work, only to be gutted down without it, isnt a game to me, especially if its a single player game
So basically you are against all online games, and for example MAG?
 

charsace

Member
Or they could save millions, hundreds of man hours, and a lot of inevitable launch head ache and just pre-compute it and store it on disk.

This is dumb argument against using the cloud. Why have anything be procedural or done in real-timing in gaming? You don't need dynamic lighting, procedural animation dynamic AI, etc, Just pre-compute as much of it as possible.
 

kmg90

Member
I love that this tech gets brought up again and again like it's going to be a game changer that will make the Xbox stand out from others...



This will never be used outside of a non-mmo environment even at it's best...


Cloud will never be a solution to "offloading computational demand" as long as we have lots of users still using copper to receive Internet (aka DSL/Cable) until everyone and the entire internet backbone is all hooked up to fiber with no bufferbloat, throttling and packet loss this is all a pipedream.

You want to see what server side physics look and feel in the real environment of the internet? Login to Second Life... it's pretty much the equivalent of what all these Microsoft PR claims and tech demos are doing... What they always don't explain or forget to mention is that it it isn't cheap to use (It's for developers to use in testing environment but NOT FREE in production use). Below are the prices to run/own/rent a region all with it's own object/player physics that are computed server-side (the cloud).

9yMmeCt.png



Even after spending all that money you still end up with a lousy, disjointed experience because the variability of both the server and client (server system load, latency, jitter and packet loss) are too great to where "cloud based physics" are far from being a suggestible substitute for local/offline physics for games that are outside the MMO experience.
 
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