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[silver.tongue]

Catching up to the thread.

Can anything be done about this in a patch?
I mean, can you alter the scaler via a new firmware?

 

[MThanded]

Took an off screen image to show off the sharpening effect. It's shit quality but someone else feel free to make a better one. I don't have the equipment.

Was this not an issue on the 360 too? I had a similar issue with text in the dashboard then. I always thought there was something wrong with my setup. However, it looked like that on 3 televisions I owned and even my monitor.

 

[ymmv]

Surprised we've not heard anything from Albert about this. wasn't he supposed to pop in for a chat after launch?

I'm surprised this hasn't been picked up by the media.

 

[TyrantII]

Catching up to the thread.

Can anything be done about this in a patch?
I mean, can you alter the scaler via a new firmware?

Yes, but they also ignored these things on the 360. So...

 

[BigBoss]

I'm surprised this hasn't been picked up by the media.

Are you really?

 

[Sithlord77]

Would uploading videos from Game DVR help? Because honestly I can't really see the crushed blacks with my TV set to RGB limited playing DR3 @ 1080p.

The game is a bit dark overall anyway but I changed the gamma settings in it to 7/10 and it's fine now. Not overly dark but not overly grey either.

 

[Spinning Plates]

I went to the Xbox One Tour and this thread confirms my feelings except at the time I attributed it to the TV's not being properly set up. Ghosts looked really poor IMO as if the sharpness was set to 100. Same thing for DR3. Again the TV's not being correctly set up would have exaggerated the effect.

Playing Battlefield 4 on the map 'Zavod 311' I had lots of difficulty making out players inside the factory and in the underground tunnels on. It actually reminded me of when I got the e74 error on the 360 (scaler broke) and playing CoD Zombies it was difficult to make out zombies as they walked towards holes in the walls.

Different story with Forza and FIFA which were on another floor. They both looked noticeable cleaner than any other games else on display.

 

[Mononoke]

I went to the Xbox One Tour and this thread confirms my feelings except at the time I attributed it to the TV's not being properly set up. Ghosts looked really poor IMO as if the sharpness was set to 100. Same thing for DR3. Again the TV's not being correctly set up would have exaggerated the effect.

Playing Battlefield 4 on the map 'Zavod 311' I had lots of difficulty making out players inside the factory and in the underground tunnels on Zavod 311. It actually reminded me of when I got the e74 error on the 360 (scaler broke) and playing CoD Zombies it was difficult to make out zombies as they walked towards holes in the walls.

Different story with Forza and FIFA which were on another floor. They both looked noticeable cleaner than any other games else on display.

Yeah my tv definitely wasn't calibrated right. But it looked great on PS4 and awful on Xbox One. After I calibrated it it looks better overall on both.

So uh, thanks Xbox One for forcing me to finally calibrate my TV.

 

[Timu]

Gamma isn't going to help you problem. You'll brighten the image a bit, but then you just wash out the saturation. The crushed black become lighter crushed grays. So you can see better, but you still can't make out any detail/texture detail in the blacks which is the real problem.

I assume you've checked you TV's setting to make sure both the XB1 and TV are set to RGB Limited? What model TV are you using BTW?

I play on a PC monitor that's a Hanns G HH281HPB and it's set to RGB Limited.

 

[shungokusatsu]

I play on a PC monitor that's a Hanns G HH281HPB and it's set to RGB Limited.

What are your capture settings for picture? That could also be a factor.

 

[crazepharmacist]

Holy crap, that's horrible. How don't review sites mention this? Even people who do "Let's Play"s don't seem to mention it.

Off topic: how would I know if my HDTV supports limited/full rgb?

Usually there's an RGB setting somewhere in your video settings menu. Don't just assume you're running full just because your set supports it. You have to turn the setting on.

 

[SapientWolf]

Here we go, Killer Instinct. Enjoy sharpening in all its glory.

Here's native 720p output where you can see that sharpness is NOT introduced into the image:

Here's the original 1080p shot from Xbox One:

So, for 720p games, it seems like best image quality is obtained by setting the console to 720p. This is the same for each 720p game that I've tried.

Ryse, on the other hand, suffers from no such thing.

Histograms from the two images, if there was any doubt. You can see some of the low frequency image information get filtered out, and see the increase in high frequency:

 

[Timu]

What are your capture settings for picture? That could also be a factor.

They're on default, but I'll be getting a new capture card this/early next week so that's something to factor.

 

[phosphor112]

Took an off screen image to show off the sharpening effect. It's shit quality but someone else feel free to make a better one. I don't have the equipment.

The white halo around the text on the right image shows its being sharpened.

Sharpening an image uses a convolution matrix (shown below). This is a picture of a convolution matrix that can be used in GIMP to apply your own custom filters. The filter either comes in a 3x3 or 5x5 matrix, and the result is applied to the whole image to create a new image.

Now take a look at this image, the center value is the "initial pixel" with the 8 boxes around it are it's surrounding pixels. The numbers represent how you will multiply the value of the pixel and then added to become the new initial pixel. It's kind of confusing but here is a link to the GIMP tutorial on basic filters.

http://docs.gimp.org/en/plug-in-convmatrix.html

So anyway, this picture above shows a filter that will make every pixel contrast it's surrounding pixels as much as possible. That is why you see the white glow around the text and the text itself darkened.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Sadira's stage is affected the most it seems, but I decided to do a 1080p capture:

That is one really bad looking game.

 

[madmackem]

That campaign shot shows why i made the thread in the first place, just think of a fully looby of people and all dat sharpening noise around all the text, its horrid completely annoys the shit out of me and makes games look terrible because of it. It adds more sharpness to all the jaggies etc.

 

[Majanew]

That is one really bad looking game.

It's because Microsoft let Double Helix make it. Double Helix. Let that shit sink in.

 

[Alo81]

For what it's worth - everyone crapping on how Killer Instinct looks, supposedly it's super fun and - at least when outputting at 720p, it looks good in motion.

 

[Timu]

I'm still trying to figure out what are the best settings for the X1 for me.D=

 

[REV 09]

It's because Microsoft let Double Helix make it. Double Helix. Let that shit sink in.

Except the game is fuck awesome. Let that sink in...c-c-c-come at me bro!!!!!

 

[Izayoi]

They're on default, but I'll be getting a new capture card this/early next week so that's something to factor.

If you don't mind my asking, what are you planning on getting?

I was looking at this guy.

 

[Timu]

If you don't mind my asking, what are you planning on getting?

I was looking at this guy.

This one actually, the one nbnt uses for his amazing screens.

 

[Raistlin]

dp

 

[Raistlin]

Gaseous illumination verses fix pixels so no. My 360 with a 1080p viera was eye orgasmic for most of last gen.

Dude ... Plasma are fixed pixel displays too.

Took an off screen image to show off the sharpening effect. It's shit quality but someone else feel free to make a better one. I don't have the equipment.

W
O
W





Damn, that's some pretty brutal ringing :\

 

[GANGSTERKILLER]

I download this DR3 video and watched it on my TV... http://www.gamersyde.com/download_dead_rising_3_gameplay-31242_en.html

It looks dark, grainy and has lots of aliasing, IQ is very poor. The artificial sharpening of the XBO only makes upscaled 720p games looks worse.

I wonder if MS are going to fix this because it is a real issue. I know they never fixed the black crush on 360, which is a shame.

 

[Elsolar]

A sharpening filter over the UI? That seems unbelievably stupid considering you can upscale the scene before drawing the UI and do the UI at 1080p.

 

[John Caboose]

A sharpening filter over the UI? That seems unbelievably stupid considering you can upscale the scene before drawing the UI and do the UI at 1080p.

Next-gen multiplat goodness.

 

[godofcookery]

This one actually, the one nbnt uses for his amazing screens.

guessing you can use this to play games on the PC as well? (say if your computer monitor doesn't have component inputs? or is there too much input lag?

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Here we go, Killer Instinct. Enjoy sharpening in all its glory.

Here's native 720p output where you can see that sharpness is NOT introduced into the image:

Here's 1080p output from Xbox One scaled to 720p for comparison:

Here's the original 1080p shot from Xbox One:

So, for 720p games, it seems like best image quality is obtained by setting the console to 720p. This is the same for each 720p game that I've tried.

Ryse, on the other hand, suffers from no such thing.

Whoa, that is gross.

 

[TyrantII]

I download this DR3 video and watched it on my TV... http://www.gamersyde.com/download_dead_rising_3_gameplay-31242_en.html

It looks dark, grainy and has lots of aliasing, IQ is very poor. The artificial sharpening of the XBO only makes upscaled 720p games looks worse.

I wonder if MS are going to fix this because it is a real issue. I know they never fixed the black crush on 360, which is a shame.

Twitter guys. twitter, twitter, twitter. Bombard them until they have to respond. Get loud!

XB1 fans deserve better! Especially if they're marketing this box as a home media device.

I already tweeted Major Nelson, but nothing yet.

 

[EtherMagic]

Like Digital Foundry stated, the X1 doesn't output a true HDMI full signal, that's why the blacks are crushed.

You people need to turn your Xbox One's to limited and set your TV to expect a limited signal and all will be fixed. Literally ZERO CRUSHED BLACKS!

The problem with turning on 720p in games is that you are now leaving it up to the TV to Upscale the signal to 1080p rather than the Xbox doing it. Doing it this way results in slight lag as the Xbox upscaler, just as with the 360's does this lag free. You NEVER want the TV to process more of the signal than it need to for video games, because these picture displays a set resolution it must be scaled to the resolution of the TV, so one of the divices must do this.

 

[Timu]

Like Digital Foundry stated, the X1 doesn't output a true HDMI full signal, that's why the blacks are crushed.

You people need to turn your Xbox One's to limited and set your TV to expect a limited signal and all will be fixed. Literally ZERO CRUSHED BLACKS!

But I have it set to Limited on my X1.D=

 

[Raist]

Like Digital Foundry stated, the X1 doesn't output a true HDMI full signal, that's why the blacks are crushed.

You people need to turn your Xbox One's to limited and set your TV to expect a limited signal and all will be fixed. Literally ZERO CRUSHED BLACKS!

No, just no. Stop using DF's BF4 fiasco. It makes no sense.

 

[monlo]

power of the cloud(ed vision)

 

[Alo81]

guessing you can use this to play games on the PC as well? (say if your computer monitor doesn't have component inputs? or is there too much input lag?

Yes, but there are much, much cheaper alternatives if you want to play console games on a PC monitor.

Get an HDMI female to DVI male adapter.

You should only really be getting a capture card if you really want to record and capture game footage.

 

[REV 09]

I used the tv calibration tool from the One and KI doesn't look as jagged or as dark as the images in this thread, so I don't know. Maybe it varies by tv. KI looks quite nice in motion.

 

[Timu]

guessing you can use this to play games on the PC as well? (say if your computer monitor doesn't have component inputs? or is there too much input lag?

That's one reason.

You should only really be getting a capture card if you really want to record and capture game footage.

And take the highest quality of uncompressed pics as consoles compresses them. I saw someone using a capture card for uncompressed pics and it looks amazing.

 

[Raist]

I used the tv calibration tool from the One and KI doesn't look as jagged or as dark as the images in this thread, so I don't know. Maybe it varies by tv. KI looks quite nice in motion.

These are direct grabs and thus have nothing to do with TV models.

 

[EtherMagic]

But I have it set to Limited on my X1.D=

Go into your TV setting, find HDMI RBG range. Set to Auto


The X1 has a glitch in it's software, it's not allowing your TV's to comprehend the signal it's sending, the TV is confused so it's crushing the blacks. The 360 had this same bug many years ago before MS fixed it with a firmware update.

 

[BradleyLove]

Like Digital Foundry stated, the X1 doesn't output a true HDMI full signal, that's why the blacks are crushed.

You people need to turn your Xbox One's to limited and set your TV to expect a limited signal and all will be fixed. Literally ZERO CRUSHED BLACKS!

The problem with turning on 720p in games is that you are now leaving it up to the TV to Upscale the signal to 1080p rather than the Xbox doing it. Doing it this way results in slight lag as the Xbox upscaler, just as with the 360's does this lag free. You NEVER want the TV to process more of the signal than it need to for video games, because these picture displays a set resolution it must be scaled to the resolution of the TV, so one of the divices must do this.

Can't agree with the bolded. It depends on the quality of the scaler in your TV or AVR. I would expect the scaler in a £2,000 TV to be better than any consoles. TVs are designed to upscale an deinterlace non-native signals and have been doing so far longer than consoles.

 

[Timu]

Go into your TV setting, find HDMI RBG range. Set to Auto


The X1 has a glitch in it's software, it's not allowing your TV's to comprehend the signal it's sending, the TV is confused so it's crushing the blacks. The 360 had this same bug many years ago before MS fixed it with a firmware update.

But I'm using a monitor, guess I need to find a way to get it hooked to a TV.

 

[Muffdraul]

Took an off screen image to show off the sharpening effect. It's shit quality but someone else feel free to make a better one. I don't have the equipment.

Wow, that really reminds me of what I used to see when I ran PS3 games that could only go to 720p on my Bravia. Thankfully it stopping being an issue after that old 2007 Bravia died a few months ago and I upgraded to a new model. It obviously has a new and improved upscaler, because the glaring difference between 720p and 1080p was no longer noticeable. I like to think this won't be a problem with my newer Bravia.

 

[Alo81]

Go into your TV setting, find HDMI RBG range. Set to Auto


The X1 has a glitch in it's software, it's not allowing your TV's to comprehend the signal it's sending, the TV is confused so it's crushing the blacks. The 360 had this same bug many years ago before MS fixed it with a firmware update.

The fact that all this needs to be figured out in order to get it to potentially work properly is totally bonkers in its own right though.

 

[REV 09]

These are direct grabs and thus have nothing to do with TV models.

What does that even mean though? I can make games look a LOT different based on my tv settings. So shouldn't how it looks in person after calibrating be more important than some hypothetical internal screen grab?

 

[sol_bad]

I posted over in the TV calibration thread but thought I'd post here too for more exposure.

So I own this TV.
http://www.panasonic.com.au/Products+Archive/VIERA+televisions/Plasma+TVs/TH-P54V20A/Overview

What would people recommend I set my RGB, Cross Colour, Super White and Deep colour settings to on the PS3 and PS4?
I am pretty positive I have everything set up right but I want to make sure.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Clockwork5]

Your first mistake was expecting COD to look like a next-gen game

Yup. Cross gen launch title. not the best example.

 

[TAJ]

Was this not an issue on the 360 too? I had a similar issue with text in the dashboard then. I always thought there was something wrong with my setup. However, it looked like that on 3 televisions I owned and even my monitor.

It's easy to make any game look like that on any TV with the right (read: wrong) settings.
The difference here is that the image is stuck like that unless you know to change your output setting to 720p for 720p games. With 900p games you're just screwed, though.

 

[Arkanius]

It's easy to make any game look like that on any TV with the right (read: wrong) settings.
The difference here is that the image is stuck like that unless you know to change your output setting to 720p for 720p games. With 900p games you're just screwed, though.

People report that this doesn't happen with Ryse

 

[Timu]

I just changed the settings on my monitor, will upload new pics soon.

 

[doctordoak]

Whew, glad its not just me. Even the main menu UI looks pretty jaggy.