how am I suppose to answer something that feel shouldn't be of any problem in the first place.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Zoë Quinn writes on games industry's reaction to harassment "Risky Business"
- Thread starter ElNarez
- Start date
how am I suppose to answer something that feel shouldn't be of any problem in the first place.
Interfectum
Member
He dances around like conservatives who read Breitbart and World Net Daily. They can't really say what they believe in mixed company.
QuickSilverD
Member
You're not understanding me, but maybe that's my fault for not writing a more indeep reply.
I know people hate this word but reviwers will try to be objective when analizing a game, they should look at them as the sum of their parts and judge them for what they are, what they're trying to archive and whenever they archive it, writting off a game because isolated elements of it are (problematic, sexist, not inclusive enoght, or whatever) without looking at the quality of the final product is not a good mentality, since once you find an element (that may not even represent 1% of the game) they may let it color the whole expirence
to me this would like if someone would write of an action RPG that they would otherwise like because rolling does not give any invinsibility frames, instead of you know adaptint to this other playstile, but then again I don't think most reviwers other than those at Poligon do that
EdibleKnife
Member
Is it? And how exactly? The industry criticizes DLC and can barely change that practice by criticism but you seem set that Quinn and Anita's critique and efforts are going to literally kill every type of game you enjoy. That's untrue because people like Quinn and Anita exist and do great critical work in the realm of books, tv and films and those industries still have their little bit of everything. Why would it be any different in games?
Your giant titties and asses are not going away. Actually there'd be no problems with having them in some games if they weren't the norm even when they don't fit at all.
I personally dont see diversity has her main driving force, judging form her videos it would seem her goal has been to criticize and exploit rather than diversify
Stop trying to define "diversify" as "I see less boobies". That's not what it means.
Representation is only 1% if you ignore it.
I'm bothered by 1%'s of games all the time though so I don't get why that shouldn't be called out. Simulation games aren't great if 1% of the core is badly simulated.
And there it is: you've found fault with two victims of GG because you think that they want to take your digital ass away from you.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
I'll stop you there.
No. Even if the reviewers' tastes align with those of the majority of readers, it's still not "objective".
People hate this word because it's always mis-used when discussing a game's qualities.
EdibleKnife
Member
There's a reason why the idea of an objective game review is treated as a joke because it is literally impossible. As humans, we all come with our own personal history, baggage and opinions and that will always color everything we experience. There are people who will review the next FF Tactics without ever having played a previous version. There are parents with little kids who will review the next Mario game. There are people who are primarily PC gamers who will review Bloodborne 2. Objectivity is impossible. Scratch that. It's completely possible it's just doesn't actually have any flavor. It's without comparison, without a hint of the interests of the creator and without scaling in comparison to other games on the market. You wouldn't be able to know if you should get one FPS over another with a 100% objective review.
what does it mean?
so people like anita sarkeesian are ok with big breasted short skirted woman in games, could you potentially link me to something that shows this?
inpHilltr8r
Member
more boobies of colour, and man boobs, old boobs too
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
So criticism can't foster diversity now?
And what do you even mean with "exploit"?
You still don't make sense while trying to dance around what you really mean.
LOL. Okay, fuck it, I give up.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Reviews are by definition not objective, that's kind of the point.
And people calling for more diversity and/or variety of representation of women and minorities aren't trying to censor, remove, or completely change anything. Having more games with different kinds of stories and characters does not erase or block the usual AAA goonfests
And people calling for more diversity and/or variety of representation of women and minorities aren't trying to censor, remove, or completely change anything. Having more games with different kinds of stories and characters does not erase or block the usual AAA goonfests
Interfectum
Member
It means there is room in the industry for Chloe's ass and female characters that aren't designed to stiffen a 12 year old's winky.
First Zoe makes games so she should make what she wants, and her issue is harrament it has never been about what your saying, the fact you do not know the difference between the developer and the critic says to me they occupy a space in your mind labeled "interloping women".
As for Anita.You really don't seem to understand how this works. Even if what you say was true Anita has no actual power to force anybody into anything, it's a free society. And she is not saying " no one should make games that Delta25 likes, let's take the hobby from him" she's saying," hey can we get some positive women in gaming so matty77 can play with his 7 year old niece because she wants to be included in this hobby too".
But yeah, I'm done trying to clarify this because at this point between me and others if you can't see that it's because you are actively refusing to.
EdibleKnife
Member
https://twitter.com/spacekatgal/status/525848174498304001
What matters doesn't solely lie in the look (which is important and does need work in the industry) but in the characterization. Giving a character agency and place within the story. Fleshing them out and making them real people. Freeing a character from cliché.
Why are you making this a issue in a thread about a victim oft harrassment, while you give lipservice you don't care about representation, while you do evidently care, as long as they serve your interests.
Nobody's going to take away your Impossible White Guy™ power fantasies, delta25. They're just saying that it's okay to show other things in gaming like:
Fast-Twitch Muscle Fiber Black Dude™
Slightly Improbable Samoan Woman™
Somewhat Grounded Gay Man™
Steely and Determined Trans Woman™
It'll be okay. I promise.
Fast-Twitch Muscle Fiber Black Dude™
Slightly Improbable Samoan Woman™
Somewhat Grounded Gay Man™
Steely and Determined Trans Woman™
It'll be okay. I promise.
BlastProcessing
Member
You are setting yourself up for a lifetime of frustration.
BrutishMrFish
Member
That not every female character has to have a great ass in a tight fitting outfit? That not every protagonist has to be a straight white guy?
Why should anyone put in that sort of effort for you when you're being this obtuse?
inpHilltr8r
Member
if only
That's not how books, movies, TV shows, paintings, sculptures, tapestries, graphic novels, or any other form of art/media that exists are reviewed. Reviews are subjective assessments of an individual's experience with something. If they didn't like a specific portion of the whole product because of a part, then they had damned well better say something, lest their review be dishonest.
Why should video games be different?
Now I actually want to play these games, someone make it happen!
oh good, so now your going to make some behind the curtains jab at my maturity level.
awesome.
Interfectum
Member
Pretty explicitly saying you should grow up and stop acting like a selfish child.
People in this thread have been remarkably patient with you, considering.
because reasons
Then straight up, you agree with the main objective and goals of gamergate. I'm sure you disagree with their methods, but it's the same mindset and group of people you're sharing your opinion with. It's a very unaccommodating and selfish at best and sexist at worst attitude to have.
QuantumZebra
Member
I'd play the shit out of every one of those games
guess i found my new XCOM squad
i'd love to see someone go to the MOMA and give an objective review of their favorite pieces
"It was large. The paint strokes were even. There were many colors, some of which formed shapes. 10/10"
A Link to the Past
Banned
When has Anita ever suggested that she wants to "take things away"? What she does want to do and what she has been doing is criticizing certain ideas in games for being too darned common. She criticized Peach because she is typically just a reward for the player upon completing the game, and yet you think that she's above that for some reason?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
1) I'm really fucking embarrassed for you that you don't realize that "but I like seeing women's butts and that should not change" is inherently sexist.
2) You say you don't want women's voices to be involved in the dev cycle, when boy's voices are what are driving marketing and dev decisions.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Slightly improbable, totally unstoppable!
BrutishMrFish
Member
There's a difference between disagreeing with someone and shoving your fingers in your ears so you don't have to consider their arguments.
MickeyKnox
Member
you know mods can see your edits right...
Did you play MKX?
Actually, can we call Kung Jin slightly grounded? He's the nephew of Zombies from hell...
A Link to the Past
Banned
This is the best direction of gaming
EdibleKnife
Member
I mean, people are out in the industry creating and fighting for the creation of more nuanced and quality representation for their race, sexuality and gender to have a more well-rounded and welcoming industry but your only argument against it so far has been you won't have the chance to see T&A any more (patently untrue since it's not true of any other form of media that still has elevated critique and creation). It's a jab you opened yourself up to.
BlastProcessing
Member
Never tell her the odds!
A Link to the Past
Banned
Haha, I remember this commercial. It's a cute idea and a great criticism of delta.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
If anything, taking 5 seconds to look at the history of the industry thus far and what's going with it right now shoukd assure people that their beloved pixelated lumps aren't going anywhere.
The irrational fear is sad
The irrational fear is sad
I would say if you fear more that women in videogames stop serving your own sexual interests than the livelihood of real women, you got issues.
If your fear losing that privilege that women are built around your interest, that you show hate towards those women who voice demand for better representation... well, I don't wanna curse right now.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
At the risk of sounding like a mod suck-up, Slightly Improbable Samoan Woman deserves an actual game
suck-up
Similar threads
- Poll