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[DownWithTheShip]

This is exactly what irks me -- he is the "scumbag," the "psycho ex," etc. according to people in this thread, but her behavior is not even being touched upon when this is being mentioned.

He's seen as the "scumbag" because he made public something that was very private. How is someone else's private life any of your damn business?

 

[Palette Swap]

Like most members of this community I look highly unfavorably towards emotional abuse, especially over lengthy periods in personal relationships. So it matters to me on a personal level, and how I perceive Zoe Quinn as an individual. It also helps me better understand why his ex did what he did, if he was indeed treated the way he described it (and my poor memory remembers it).

And no, it does not make any of it right, but rather shows that there are no innocent parties when it concerns the relationship between those two.

Or maybe:
a) the allegations against her were private and none of your business.
b) his airing of dirty laundry was designed to be public from the get go and so is part of a very public debate.

It's not exactly rocket science.

 

[fushi]

I'm sorry, but it's hard to sympathize with a guy who airs his dirty laundry with the hope of recruiting an Internet army to harass his ex.

True. Not sure how much of the rallying he did himself, but, yes.

Her behavior is a private matter, not something to run to the mob and cry about.

Again, I do not take emotional abuse lightly and if shit was bad, I am not going to judge someone for talking about it, much like I wouldn't judge someone for doing it here. Of course, he went above and beyond what could be deemed a normal way of "talking about it", not to mention naming her publicly.

And frankly, it's all he said she said anyways. The rest of us shouldn't care a bit about it, let alone start and endless harassment campaign about it.

True as well.

I've done enough to derail this thread by now, sorry. There are certain aspects to this discussion that I feel are not quite right so I added my two cents.

Edit: Okay, I am definitely out.

This reeks of "yeah, he hit her, but maybe she kind of deserved it."

Or, "yeah, she was raped, but she was wearing slutty clothes."

The conversation can't go there. It can't.

Sorry, but you are crazy if you are reading something like that out of it.

 

[Oersted]

Like most members of this community I look highly unfavorably towards emotional abuse, especially over lengthy periods in personal relationships. So it matters to me on a personal level, and how I perceive Zoe Quinn as an individual. It also helps me better understand why his ex did what he did, if he was indeed treated the way he described it (and my poor memory remembers it).

And no, it does not make any of it right, but rather shows that there are no innocent parties when it concerns the relationship between those two.

This is exactly what irks me -- he is the "scumbag," the "psycho ex," etc. according to people in this thread, but her behavior is not even being touched upon when this is being mentioned. It's exactly this sort of mob mentality of black-and-white character assassinations that started this shitstorm in the first place. And makes it for people like me, who tend to obsess over empathy and equality on every level, so difficult to take a stand for what is right.

Her personal life is none of our concern. The hatecampaign he started, based on wrong accusations, to destroy her, is.

 

[Mman235]

This is exactly what irks me -- he is the "scumbag," the "psycho ex," etc. according to people in this thread, but her behavior is not even being touched upon when this is being mentioned. It's exactly this sort of mob mentality of black-and-white character assassinations that started this shitstorm in the first place. And makes it for people like me, who tend to obsess over empathy and equality on every level, so difficult to take a stand for what is right.

He's not being called that just because of the "Zoe Post", but because of his continued actions since then; he's basically admitted he wrote that to make a mob go after her, he's said he doesn't regret a thing and he's trying to fight the gag order Zoe put on him for his continued actions. If he had just posted his thing and stayed away people would think he's kind of a dick and that's it, but he's gone out of his way to be scum.

 

[delta25]

a quick hypothetical: you eventually have daughter, and as a kid she takes an interest in video games.

would you prefer her to see a more positive representation of girls in the games she plays or a more negative representation?

if negative, why?

or I could teach her that the portrayal of woman in video games is not meant to be a treated as actual representation of how women should act or look in real life.

God bless you for being brave enough to ask the hard questions. I will ask one back to you. Why don't you want change in how the industry portrays women in videogames?

because I like videogames as they are

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Like most members of this community I look highly unfavorably towards emotional abuse, especially over lengthy periods in personal relationships. So it matters to me on a personal level, and how I perceive Zoe Quinn as an individual. It also helps me better understand why his ex did what he did, if he was indeed treated the way he described it (and my poor memory remembers it).

And no, it does not make any of it right, but rather shows that there are no innocent parties when it concerns the relationship between those two.

This is exactly what irks me -- he is the "scumbag," the "psycho ex," etc. according to people in this thread, but her behavior is not even being touched upon when this is being mentioned. It's exactly this sort of mob mentality of black-and-white character assassinations that started this shitstorm in the first place. And makes it for people like me, who tend to obsess over empathy and equality on every level, so difficult to take a stand for what is right.

But yes, you are wholly correct in saying that this issue has moved far beyond the original incident and it bears little meaning now. The gamergate movement as a whole is probably the single worst blemish on gamer culture as a whole. The sooner it ends, the better.

Um, dude?

He's the one that started this. He's the one that made their relationship public. He's the one that made their problems public. He's the one that decided to label her a slut on the internet.

The onus is not on her to ignore the outcome of that.

Again, I do not take emotional abuse lightly and if shit was bad, I am not going to judge someone for talking about it, much like I wouldn't judge someone for doing it here. Of course, he went above and beyond what could be deemed a normal way of "talking about it", not to mention naming her publicly.

This just reeks of a sloppy way of saying "lol I'm a voyeur".

 

[Roto13]

I'll never forget this one thread on here about some Asscreed game with an interview with Jade Raymond

I think the first reponse was something along the lines of

"I'd love to giver her some nice anal"

I stopped going into off topic because every single time a thread was made where a woman was involved in any way (like a news story), one of the first few posts was inevitably "would" or "wouldn't."

Did that shit become bannable? I've barely looked into Off Topic in years.

 

[cirrhosis]

I stopped going into off topic because every single time a thread was made where a woman was involved in any way (like a news story), one of the first few posts was inevitably "would" or "wouldn't."

Did that shit become bannable? I've barely looked into Off Topic in years.

Generally yes, the mods have been pretty good about banning for it

 

[Deleted member 126221]

because I like videogames as they are

You think you'd like them less with better portrayal of women? Why is that? Honest question.

 

[cirrhosis]

because I like videogames as they are

I don't know what this means. Could you please be more specific?

 

[faceless007]

I stopped going into off topic because every single time a thread was made where a woman was involved in any way (like a news story), one of the first few posts was inevitably "would" or "wouldn't."

Did that shit become bannable? I've barely looked into Off Topic in years.

We try to crack down harshly on shitposting like that, yes.

 

[delta25]

You think you'd like them less with better portrayal of women? Why is that? Honest question.

if the game is fun, I'd rather not concern myself about gender representation, after all this is just another medium of entertainment and should be treated as such, in no way do I use any form of entertainment as a true representation of reality.

 

[Oersted]

or I could teach her that the portrayal of woman in video games is not meant to be a treated as actual representation of how women should act or look in real life.


because I like videogames as they are

This is so ignorant, it kind of left me speachless. Yes, you do like the way videogames are. But also yes, maybe she will like the way videogames are and can be. Games with better representation, like so many, men and women, already do. If you are feel threatened by this, imagine how your daughter would feel with your excuse.

 

[Interfectum]

if the game is fun, I'd rather not concern myself about gender representation, after all this is just another medium of entertainment and should be treated as such, in no way do I use any form of entertainment as a true representation of reality.

You don't have to concern yourself with representation most likely because you are being represented.

Try empathy sometime.

 

[Primus]

if the game is fun, I'd rather not concern myself about gender representation, after all this is just another medium of entertainment and should be treated as such, in no way do I use any form of entertainment as a true representation of reality.

What exactly would make your games less fun if gender representation changed?

 

[BrutishMrFish]

I'd classify him as more of an opportunist who espouses some GGish views and is happy to accept any attention they give him. It is funny, however, to watch the gators get upset and turn on him on the occasions when he's being more reasonable.

Plenty of GamerGators fall under that general category (not that you're wrong). It seems like it would be fine to call him a GGer when he has spouted things like this that would have gotten him banned from this thread.

If we're going to be really specific about exactly what kind of person TotalBiscuit is, though, I would say he puts a lot of stock in his intelligence. When it turned out he was suckered like a bunch of other (average) people, rather than admit that he could have been wrong, he doubled down. Now nothing can convince him that GamerGate is a harassment campaign, because admitting that to himself would mean that he was extremely wrong, but also extremely awful to a lot of people.

There's no need to be that specific. GamerGate likes him, he's never tried to directly distance himself from them, he knows exactly what kind of people they are, he benefits from their support, and the list goes on. Much like how a duck is still a bird, TotalBiscuit is still a GGer, regardless of his motivations.

 

[Sakujou]

Shameful behaviour from the "gaming community", hopefully these children grow up soon or the industry will be set back decades.

the same amount of people who would never ever choose a female character in a game if they have the choice as well as people who only play fifa/nfl/nhl and cod all day.

what do you expect?

 

[cameron]

if the game is fun, I'd rather not concern myself about gender representation, after all this is just another medium of entertainment and should be treated as such, in no way do I use any form of entertainment as a true representation of reality

Then why would it matter if the gender representation changed due to criticism? The game would still be fun wouldn't it since you don't concern yourself with gender representation in games?

 

[Vice]

if the game is fun, I'd rather not concern myself about gender representation, after all this is just another medium of entertainment and should be treated as such, in no way do I use any form of entertainment as a true representation of reality.

Representation is important to fans of all forms of entertainment though. It's how entertainment is treated.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

if the game is fun, I'd rather not concern myself about gender representation, after all this is just another medium of entertainment and should be treated as such, in no way do I use any form of entertainment as a true representation of reality.

Of course, but I fail to get how better gender representation would affect fun. I mean, it's perfectly fine to overlook it and just enjoy gameplay or whatever, but I don't get the reason for being against it.

For example, if you watched it, do you feel Mad Max Fury Road was less enjoyable because of the way it depicted women?

 

[Oersted]

if the game is fun, I'd rather not concern myself about gender representation, after all this is just another medium of entertainment and should be treated as such, in no way do I use any form of entertainment as a true representation of reality.

Your post reads like you are worried they could feature more women.

 

[Sai-kun]

if the game is fun, I'd rather not concern myself about gender representation, after all this is just another medium of entertainment and should be treated as such, in no way do I use any form of entertainment as a true representation of reality.

Sorry, but this is super ignorant. Representation is important to a lot of people, and just because you don't have the empathy and see it as 'just another medium' doesn't mean everyone does.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Fucking lol @ the concern trolling about "emotional abuse". Yeah I'm sure you're seriously very personally affected by Zoe's private life and were very distraught to learn about these allegations by her ex, and they totally matter to you. *massive eye-roll*

if the game is fun, I'd rather not concern myself about gender representation

This is contradictory with:

I really dont want to support them and what they are trying to set out to achieve in trying to change how the industry portrays woman in videogames

So either you don't care about gender representation, and therefore, what Anita is trying to achieve shouldn't matter to you, or you do care, and want to stop Anita's goal of having better representation because... reasons?

You're not making any sense.

 

[jon bones]

You don't have to concern yourself with representation most likely because you are being represented.

Yep, as is the case with most people afraid of shaking up the status quo.

because I like videogames as they are

Yet another case of "I am already well-represented, so there must not be a problem."

 

[Conan-san]

Fucking lol @ the concern trolling about "emotional abuse". Yeah I'm sure you're seriously very personally affected by Zoe's private life and were very distraught to learn about these allegations by her ex, and they totally matter to you. *massive eye-roll*

So we can't be concerned about an instance of emotional abuse but we must be when said abuse happens...

Which one is it?

 

[delta25]

You don't have to concern yourself with representation most likely because you are being represented.

Try empathy sometime.

why should I have to empathize with something that I dont see as anything other than another form of entertainment, I wasn't aware that in order to enjoy video games I must first empathize with the subject matter.

Your post reads like you are worried they could feature more women.

not at all, the more the merrier. In fact one of the best games I've ever played is Alien: Isolation, an amazing game that just so happens to feature a woman as the protagonist, something for me that not once did I even question, why, because the game was fun

So either you don't care about gender representation, and therefore, what Anita is trying to achieve shouldn't matter to you, or you do care, and want to stop Anita's goal of having better representation because... reasons?

You're not making any sense.

The keyword here is portray

 

[laser]

or I could teach her that the portrayal of woman in video games is not meant to be a treated as actual representation of how women should act or look in real life.

I'd say how media affects things like self esteem is sub-conscious.

Like it or not, negative portrayals in media negatively affects people's self esteem.

http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news-archive/22445.html

why should I have to empathize with something that I dont see as anything other than another form of entertainment, I wasn't aware that in order to enjoy video games I must first empathize with the subject matter.

You should empathize with other people playing the games. If you can.

 

[Lalalandia]

So we can't be concerned about an instance of emotional abuse but we must be when said abuse happens...

Which one is it?

You phrase this as if the deliberately provocative account by Eron (he admits he spiced it to ensure she got harassed remember) can be trusted further than it can be thrown.

Also you can read a healthy response to a bad relationship below which is why many of us echo Matty77 and say

He's a jealous psycho scumbag with the maturity level of a teenager, case closed.

Thanks for sharing Matty77

 

[Matty77]

This is exactly what irks me -- he is the "scumbag," the "psycho ex," etc. according to people in this thread, but her behavior is not even being touched upon when this is being mentioned. It's exactly this sort of mob mentality of black-and-white character assassinations that started this shitstorm in the first place. And makes it for people like me, who tend to obsess over empathy and equality on every level, so difficult to take a stand for what is right.

When I was 30 my ex left me. I found my bank accounts empty, debt piled into thousands of dollars, lost a great friend who I borrowed money from to get her engagement ring, had goven her the money weekly to bring to his store found out after the fact he never saw a dime. Found out by her own admission she had cheated on me with multiple people including the guy she moved in with after we were done.

Granted she's not a public figure but you know what I didn't do? I did not go into her place of employment and broadcast her business, I did not email the details to her family and friends. No I did what adults do and dealt with it between me and her.

Publicly airing a bitter blog in revenge, knowing someone is a public figure, make mg insinuations guaranteed and for the express purpose of ruining her career, between him doing that and my own experiences which I handled like an adult I do feel the right to judge and stand by my assessment of him.

He's a jealous psycho scumbag with the maturity level of a teenager, case closed.

 

[EdibleKnife]

not at all, the more the merrier. In fact one of the best games I've ever played is Alien: Isolation, an amazing game that just so happens to feature a woman as the protagonist, something for me that not once did I even question, why, because the game was fun

So you have to ask yourself what is the issue with other people wanting it exactly? If you played a game with a female protagonist and enjoyed it and there are people who got even more out of the game because it had a female protagonist, where's the downside to the efforts of people like Quinn and Sarkessian?

 

[Deleted member 126221]

not at all, the more the merrier. In fact one of the best games I've ever played is Alien: Isolation, an amazing game that just so happens to feature a woman as the protagonist, something for me that not once did I even question, why, because the game was fun

So if it didn't hurt, why are you against better gender representation then? I have trouble following your logic...

 

[jon bones]

why should I have to empathize with something that I dont see as anything other than another form of entertainment, I wasn't aware that in order to enjoy video games I must first empathize with the subject matter.

wait, what? you're supposed to be empathetic towards people - in this case, the women and minorities who would be better represented in media.

or I could teach her that the portrayal of woman in video games is not meant to be a treated as actual representation of how women should act or look in real life.

you still never answered my question, so i'll have to extrapolate based on your responses: why do you prefer negative representation of women in media over a positive representation?

 

[erotic grandpa]

So if it didn't hurt, why are you against better gender representation then? I have trouble following your logic...

I can take a guess.

 

[Oersted]

why should I have to empathize with something that I dont see as anything other than another form of entertainment, I wasn't aware that in order to enjoy video games I must first empathize with the subject matter.



not at all, the more the merrier. In fact one of the best games I've ever played is Alien: Isolation, an amazing game that just so happens to feature a woman as the protagonist, something for me that not once did I even question, why, because the game was fun

Reprensatation was always part of entertainment.

To the second paragraph: What is your issue then?

 

[cirrhosis]

I can take a guess.

lol goddamn

 

[QuickSilverD]

So either you don't care about gender representation, and therefore, what Anita is trying to achieve shouldn't matter to you, or you do care, and want to stop Anita's goal of having better representation because... reasons?

You're not making any sense.

I think most people wouldn't care to see more representation of women, but in the specific case of Anita see also seems to want to get rid of certain tropes and literary devises, which strikes me as limiting the freedom of game creators

 

[Conan-san]

You phrase this as if the deliberately provocative account by Eron (he admits he spiced it to ensure she got harassed remember) can be trusted further than it can be thrown.

I thought we were talking about the abuse going in Quin's direction as a result of the accusations?

 

[QuantumZebra]

The thing is that Gamergate is largely the products of sentiments that have nothing to do with gaming at all. The way that gators talk about their SJW conspiracy is very similar to accusations of liberal media bias. An idea that I've seen flying around in the old GG thread is that Gamergate is - at least in part - formed from a desire by conservatives to have their own gaming media outlets. I think there's a lot of truth in that.

So before Gamergate even started, you still had a lot of angry conservatives on every gaming board. They just hadn't gathered together and helped to radicalize each other yet.

Yep GG is essentially the violent backlash of angry man-children conservatives against the "feminist/liberal/mainstream/anything not male-WASP" media; organized and weaponized.

I don't see them going away anytime soon - but they have pissed a lot of people off and only continue to do so. They will be further marginalized as time goes on, just like the "Tea Party" in American politics has been.

I can take a guess.

 

[delta25]

Reprensatation was always part of entertainment.

yes, but when you can differentiate between entertainment and reality, one should not act as truth for the other.

I can take a guess.

lol wow you dug pretty deep, and yes I do appreciated a well designed ass.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

He's a jealous psycho scumbag with the maturity level of a teenager, case closed.

Don't forget the part where he explicitly spread the information to channers who had a history of hating/harassing her to begin with.


(Also I think "Gamergate" has now lasted longer than their relationship, which is a creepy ass "what the fuck" thing for me.)

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I think most people wouldn't care to see more representation of women, but in the specific case of Anita see also seems to want to get rid of certain tropes and literary devises, which strikes me as limiting the freedom of game creators

lol, what?! Are game reviews "limiting the freedom of game creators" while we're at it?

yes, but when you can differentiate between entertainment and reality, one should not act as truth for the other.

I'm sorry but what are you talking about?

 

[Ty4on]

True. Not sure how much of the rallying he did himself, but, yes.

Trending (can't say top*) post on KIA when I last checked was a defense fund for Eron. Because he will of course be locked out of the common platforms it is a shady looking page.

AFAIK he posted the story to multiple sites. It was deleted on many of them.

 

[Orayn]

I think most people wouldn't care to see more representation of women, but in the specific case of Anita see also seems to want to get rid of certain tropes and literary devises, which strikes me as limiting the freedom of game creators

She's pointing out the sexist implications of some common tropes in video games, in hopes that developers will come around to her point of view and have that be reflected in their future works. That is trying to change the status quo, but it's very different from demanding that games not be allowed to depict Tropes X, Y, and Z.

Also, apologies to Delta25, but she's already changed video games since she was cited as a major influence on The Last of Us. Your worst fears of a feminarchy dystopia have already come true!

 

[jon bones]

I think most people wouldn't care to see more representation of women, but in the specific case of Anita see also seems to want to get rid of certain tropes and literary devises, which strikes me as limiting the freedom of game creators

libertarians love throwing around "Freedom" to fit their narrative.... let's put it in a way you can understand:

Video game companies are privately held and beholden only to their customers and shareholders.

If customers demand better representation of women and removal of certain tropes, then the companies will do it if they wish to remain competitive.

 

[Oersted]

I can take a guess.

Oh dear...

 

[BrutishMrFish]

I think most people wouldn't care to see more representation of women, but in the specific case of Anita see also seems to want to get rid of certain tropes and literary devises, which strikes me as limiting the freedom of game creators

Pointing out lazy tropes that contribute to poor video game writing does not limit the freedom of creators, it lets them know that they can do better.

Personally, I look forward to the day when nobody has to put "- for a video game" at the end of "It has a great story" when talking about a game.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

So we can't be concerned about an instance of emotional abuse but we must be when said abuse happens...

Which one is it?

...What?

why should I have to empathize with something that I dont see as anything other than another form of entertainment, I wasn't aware that in order to enjoy video games I must first empathize with the subject matter.

Empathize with the actual, living, breathing people who want that representation, of course. Not empathizing with polygons.

But, you knew this already, right?

The keyword here is portray

Thanks for the "keyword", but this answered exactly nothing. Let me try again:

So either you don't care about gender representation/portrayal, and therefore, what Anita is trying to achieve shouldn't matter to you, or you do care, and want to stop Anita's goal of having better representation/portrayal because... reasons?

Please explain this reasoning.

I think most people wouldn't care to see more representation of women, but in the specific case of Anita see also seems to want to get rid of certain tropes and literary devises, which strikes me as limiting the freedom of game creators

On the contrary, she wants to expand creativity. There is nothing remotely creative about re-using the same old tired tropes like damsels in distress and sexualized "fighting babes". In fact they're so ubiquitous and creatively bankrupt that we're pretty much amazed when we find an example that doesn't fall under these clichés.
"Limiting freedom", lol, being critical of lame clichés doesn't limit creative freedom. Do you think that when a film critic mocks a movie that features an overused cliché, that they're limiting the creative freedom of anyone? Give me a break.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I think most people wouldn't care to see more representation of women, but in the specific case of Anita see also seems to want to get rid of certain tropes and literary devises, which strikes me as limiting the freedom of game creators

Time to make a list of things that limit game creator freedom..!?

Let's start with:

- publishers
- focus groups/test audiences
- audience reception.

I wonder if we could make a list of a hundred things not named Anita that stifle creative freedom if we really tried.

 

[QuantumZebra]

libertarians love throwing around "Freedom" to fit their narrative.... let's put it in a way you can understand:

Video game companies are privately held and beholden only to their customers and shareholders.

If customers demand better representation of women and removal of certain tropes, then the companies will do it if they wish to remain competitive.

.