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[gofreak]

It's been a while since I think anyone has debuted a new product in a non-live-broadcasted scenario.

Maybe the Wii controller at TGS '05?

It's not very typical. If their VR system really does make a first appearance at this session then this sounds like a very, very soft technical reveal. Probably primarily crafted just so they can start talking more openly to more developers about it.

Or maybe there'll be a last minute press conference beforehand.

Or maybe Edge is wrong and we're barking up the wrong tree :/

 

[mrklaw]

It's been a while since I think anyone has debuted a new product in a non-live-broadcasted scenario.

Maybe the Wii controller at TGS '05?

It's not very typical. If their VR system really does make a first appearance at this session then this sounds like a very, very soft technical reveal. Probably primarily crafted just so they can start talking more openly to more developers about it.

which then starts to sound like 2015 more than 2014. Unless Sony are happy to launch with only their own software which might be unlikely.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

It's been a while since I think anyone has debuted a new product in a non-live-broadcasted scenario.

Maybe the Wii controller at TGS '05?

It's not very typical. If their VR system really does make a first appearance at this session then this sounds like a very, very soft technical reveal. Probably primarily crafted just so they can start talking more openly to more developers about it.

Or maybe there'll be a last minute press conference beforehand.

Or maybe Edge is wrong and we're barking up the wrong tree :/

Yeah, this news, combined with the fact that the talk won't even be recorded by the GDC organizers, definitely cools down the hype for me.

If this really is the talk where they're going to reveal their VRHMD, I'm perplexed.

 

[gofreak]

which then starts to sound like 2015 more than 2014. Unless Sony are happy to launch with only their own software which might be unlikely.

Yes, one could read into it a longer timetable. Although they've supposedly been sort of ready with it for a while now, so they may not be at a super early stage. Some third party partners have kits, but if you want to go broad to smaller non-partner developers and indies - which will be key for something like this - you need to really go public.

I guess we'll find out at GDC what kind of stage they're at. Hopefully.

 

[DieH@rd]

One of these solutions need to be adopted either by Sony or by Oculus:

#1 just crop engine, rest of rendering remains the same, less wasted preformance (perfect for PS4)

#2 moving screen away from lenses, rendering view is changed (more zoomed so that "active" area covers entire screen), requires new anti-fisheye algorithm

#3 instead of moving the screen back, just place smaller 1080p screen in front of lenses and force engine to render "active" area across entire screen. Result will be the same as #2.

[PS4 will most likely be limited to 1080p, but Oculus can go wild with higher res]

 

[StuBurns]

What are you guys talking about?

Someone asked if the programming session would be streamed, he said no, then someone asked if a non-existent one would be streamed, and he didn't know what it was.

Nothing has changed.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

What are you guys talking about?

Someone asked if the programming session would be streamed, he said no, then someone asked if a non-existent one would be streamed, and he didn't know what it was.

Nothing has changed.

Ok then, you tweet him for clarification with the correct title of the talk. If he responds, we'll know whether he understood my tweet or not.

 

[gofreak]

What are you guys talking about?

Someone asked if the programming session would be streamed, he said no, then someone asked if a non-existent one would be streamed, and he didn't know what it was.

Nothing has changed.

I think 'I'm not aware of any...' was in reference to streams of the session rather than the (slightly mislabelled) session itself.

The description does also indicate there won't be any recording, though it could be a mistake. Session listings/info can change.

We'll see.

 

[StuBurns]

Ok then, you tweet him for clarification with the correct title of the talk. If he responds, we'll know whether he understood my tweet or not.

No thank you.

 

[Raistlin]

Yeah, this news, combined with the fact that the talk won't even be recorded by the GDC organizers, definitely cools down the hype for me.

If this really is the talk where they're going to reveal their VRHMD, I'm perplexed.

idk, if the idea is to get developer support and show off API and tools ... maybe GDC does make sense?

That's generally how MS handles things via their BUILD event?

And if anything, they probably wouldn't want recording of it?

 

[Man]

[PS4 will most likely be limited to 1080p, but Oculus can go wild with higher res]

Something that M.Abrash (Valve) mentioned in his speech was that higher resolutions require higher frequency (fps/hz) for low-persistence to be effective.
Going to 4K VR might not just require a resolution increase alone.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

idk, if the idea is to get developer support and show off API and tools ... maybe GDC does make sense?

That's generally how MS handles things via their BUILD event?

But for unveiling a high-profile, premium accessory?

Seems off to me.

 

[DieH@rd]

Something that M.Abrash (Valve) mentioned in his speech was that higher resolutions require higher frequency (fps/hz) for low-persistence to be effective.
Going to 4K VR might not just require a resolution increase alone.

Nvidia and AMD will he happy to hear that.

 

[SighFight]

Just to sum up:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sony Computer Entertainment America GDC 2014
Driving the Future of Innovation at Sony Computer Entertainment

by Richard Marks | Senior Director, SCEA R&D
and Anton Mikhailov | Sr. Software Engineer, SCEA R&D
and Shuhei Yoshida | President, SCE Worldwide Studios

Join Sony Computer Entertainment for a presentation on innovation at PlayStation® and the future of gaming.

http://schedule.gdconf.com/session-id/828420



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oculus Rift GDC 2014
Working with the Latest Oculus Rift Hardware and Software

by Michael Antonov | Chief Software Architect, Oculus VR
and Nate Mitchell | VP of Product, Oculus VR

Since the debut of the original Oculus Rift development kit at GDC 2013, we've shown off a set of critical improvements including a high-definition display, positional tracking, and low-persistence support. Likewise, behind the scenes we've also been making critical improvements to the core Oculus SDK like new feature support, optimizations (particularly around latency), and overall simplicity.

In this talk, we'll discuss everything you need to know to get started integrating the latest Oculus Rift hardware with your VR game or experience.

The talk will be split into an overview of the latest hardware, a technical breakdown for engineers, an a game design discussion relevant to the new features. We'll also talk about our vision for future development hardware leading to the consumer Rift and what that path might look like.

http://schedule.gdconf.com/session-id/828260

Why should you talk about it if you don't sell it?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oculus Rift GDC 2014 #2
Developing Virtual Reality Games and Experiences

by Tom Forsyth | Software Achitect, Oculus VR

Virtual reality is significantly different to monitor-based games in many ways. Many choices that are merely stylistic for traditional games become incredibly important in VR, while others become irrelevant. Working on the Team Fortress 2 VR port to taught me a lot of surprising things. Some of these lessons are obvious when looking at the shipped product, but there are many paths we explored that ended in failure, and minor subtleties that were highly complex and absolutely crucial to get right.In this talk, I'll focus on a handful of the most important challenges that designers and developers should be considering when exploring virtual reality for the first time.

http://schedule.gdconf.com/session-id/828261

 

[Raistlin]

But for the first showing of a high-profile accessory?

Seems odd, that's all.

Showing to whom is the question. Aren't parts of GDC regularly NDA'd? Remember what GDC stands for, and its intent. The gaming media has always attempted to turn it into something it is not.

So if anything, this seems like the logical place to show it ... GDC isn't meant for the public.


Also remember ... new management. We shouldn't make any assumptions based on past decisions. And if anything Cerny is very pro dev. I'd expect he'd want to solicit as much feedback as possible. This is a good way to do that quickly

 

[Atomski]

Boo hiss...

Yes, I know I messed up the name of the talk, but I think he knew which one I was talking about :-(

I still really doubt they are going to announce it at GDC. Everyone was so sure at TGS and CES yet look how that turned out.. yet GDC is even less of a press show (or at least it should fucking be).

 

[StuBurns]

I still really doubt they are going to announce it at GDC. Everyone was so sure at TGS and CES yet look how that turned out.. yet GDC is even less of a press show (or at least it should fucking be).

What GDC should be isn't important, Sony have used it as a major platform for announcements in previous years.

LittleBigPlanet and Home were both GDC announcements, and most importantly, Move in 2010.

 

[kyser73]

For true justice.

Says everything I want to say about the potential for VR in taking us to genuinely magical landscapes and places we could never, ever get to. Brilliant post.

 

[iceatcs]

I still really doubt they are going to announce it at GDC. Everyone was so sure at TGS and CES yet look how that turned out.. yet GDC is even less of a press show (or at least it should fucking be).

Me too, but Move announced (not first unveiled, just name) from GDC.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

Mixed feeling about this.
From a gamer stand point this is a truly game changer, just imagining to be able to play something like Demon Soul or GT7 in VR is worth every money they will ask : but this is just me.
Sony has between move and the camera all the resources to have a very compelling experience and i have little doubt they will deliver on this.
On the other side there is the support that this thing will get....
They need 3rd parties on board, indies, they need to broaden their device on the pc market to get even more support, they need to be as open as never before,instead this thing as much as it can be clever, well designed, cheap, will die.

 

[BocoDragon]

Mixed feeling about this.
From a gamer stand point this is a truly game changer, just imagining to be able to play something like Demon Soul or GT7 in VR is worth every money they will ask : but this is just me.
Sony has between move and the camera all the resources to have a very compelling experience and i have little doubt they will deliver on this.
On the other side there is the support that this thing will get....
They need 3rd parties on board, indies, they need to broaden their device on the pc market to get even more support, they need to be as open as never before,instead this thing as much as it can be clever, well designed, cheap, will die.

You just captured all my educated fears at once. *ulp*. Hopefully they can avoid these possibilities.

 

[Dr. Kaos]

How do you figure? It should be about the same as 720p (which is 3x 480p)

the total screen real estate is 1080p. If you look at the two distorted images that will be displayed on the screen, they only use part of it because they are rounded (to fit the lenses) and the rest of the pixels on the screen are wasted. That's a lot of wasted pixels there.

The, once you simulate a movie theater screen in the distance, some pixels are used for the surroundings of the screen as well, there is some more waste right there.

Then you're splitting what remains between both eyes to get your 3D, so you half whatever resolution is left.

The end effect is that of looking at an SD image. Consensus seems to be between 360 and 480p. Someone smarter can indubitably do some math and give a more precise figure. I'm just going by testimonies since I only tried the DK Rift.

 

[StuBurns]

The end effect is that of looking at an SD image. Consensus seems to be between 360 and 480p. Someone smarter can indubitably do some math and give a more precise figure. I'm just going by testimonies since I only tried the DK Rift.

1000x1000x2 at 110 degrees is lower than 320x200.

 

[DieH@rd]

1000x1000x2 at 110 degrees is lower than 320x200.

I had shitty PC when HL2 came out. I played it from end to end in software rendering in 320x240 [windowed].

I LIKED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.

 

[SighFight]

I had shitty PC when HL2 came out. I played it from end to end in software rendering in 320x240 [windowed].

I LIKED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.

Really? That must have hurt a little....
Could you even read any text in the game and such?

 

[StreetDisciple]

Anton and Richard Marks??? That's all I need to know.

 

[Man]

PS Move had a soft tech launch @ E3 with no name and/or final look. I think this may turn out to be an equivalent.

 

[DieH@rd]

Really? That must have hurt a little....
Could you even read any text in the game and such?

I had 128MB of RAM then, trust me load times and in-game feezes were much more painful than inability to read text. That prison fight with 2-3 flying bioships was exercise in patience (freezes that lasted 30sec+).

 

[StuBurns]

I had shitty PC when HL2 came out. I played it from end to end in software rendering in 320x240 [windowed].

I LIKED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.

I think we're going to see a lot of people feel similarly about VR.

It really is a colossal drop in perceived image quality, but it's worth it.

 

[SighFight]

I had 128MB of RAM then, trust me load times and in-game feezes were much more painful than inability to read text. That prison fight with 2-3 flying bioships was exorcise in patience (freezes that lasted 30sec+).

Talk about being desperate. I hope you later replayed it under better circumstances.

 

[DieH@rd]

Talk about being desperate. I hope you later replayed it under better circumstances.

Yeah I did. But I cant wait to replay it again after so many years. This time in VR [and Black Mesa with it].

 

[JesseDeya]

Just to sum up:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sony Computer Entertainment America GDC 2014
Driving the Future of Innovation at Sony Computer Entertainment
-snip_
by Anton Mikhailov | Sr. Software Engineer, SCEA R&D
-snip-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oculus Rift GDC 2014
Working with the Latest Oculus Rift Hardware and Software

by Michael Antonov | Chief Software Architect, Oculus VR
-snip-

Umm, has no one noticed this before?

Have we ever seen them in the same room together?

PS4VR=OR=RO=RV4SP??

 

[StuBurns]

Umm, has no one noticed this before?

Have we ever seen them in the same room together?

PS4VR=OR=RO=RV4SP??

Obviously a coincidence, but fucking hell.

 

[jaypah]

Obviously a coincidence, but fucking hell.

Yeah, that's fucking nuts lol!

 

[SaucyJack]

Anton and Richard Marks??? That's all I need to know.

Been done?

 

[VillageBC]

The sim racing side of me is ready to jump on board this tech as soon as it is useable.

Come to think of it, GT7 could be the ideal title to launch this with... Dreamers gonna dream.

 

[BRocknRolla]

You know, the more I think about this, the more I feel like I'm having deja vu. How many times have people said, "This is it! We're going to see Sony VR!" only to have nothing of the sort come to pass? I know we're seeing rumors, but we've been seeing rumors all along for it.

I still really doubt they are going to announce it at GDC. Everyone was so sure at TGS and CES yet look how that turned out.. yet GDC is even less of a press show (or at least it should fucking be).

This is pretty much what I mean. This song and dance feels like its been done before. Pair that with the idea that this GDC event isn't going to be streamed, and there would be little to no fanfare for the reveal. I just don't think it's going to happen.

 

[Man]

Well in that case how do you think Sony will fill their two sessions and three hours? Dr.Richard Marks, Anton, Yoshida? Is the media lying (EDGE, Eurogamer etc) about their business connections?

 

[Dr. Kaos]

1000x1000x2 at 110 degrees is lower than 320x200.

Wow, 200p eh? That is definitely unacceptably low for movies. We'll likely need 8K+ screens before it becomes a contender. I don't see 8k screens happening by the end of this decade. Maybe in the 2020s...

 

[DrZeus]

I'm seeing guesses for the MRSP. What do we think would be in the box? Headset, camera, and one set of Move/DS4 controllers? No camera and just headset/Move/DS4? Camera and headset? I'm thinking it has to be $250 or less to really make a dent.

 

[StuBurns]

Wow, 200p eh? That is definitely unacceptably low for movies. We'll likely need 8K+ screens before it becomes a contender. I don't see 8k screens happening by the end of this decade. Maybe in the 2020s...

According to Abrash, yeah. Sounds about right, DK1 is unlike any image quality I've seen on a display, it's like having your eyeball next to a calculator.

On PC this isn't going to be that much of an issue if you have the performance though. If CV1 is 1080p (and I won't be surprised if it's QHD), assuming your PC is good enough, you could do supersampling, and if it's 90fps, your temporal image quality is going to be really good.

It's going to be interesting in the PC space, because no matter what your throw at VR, there's so much room for more performance.

I'm seeing guesses for the MRSP. What do we think would be in the box? Headset, camera, and one set of Move/DS4 controllers? No camera and just headset/Move/DS4? Camera and headset? I'm thinking it has to be $250 or less to really make a dent.

$250 for just the headset, $350 for the headset, a camera, a Move and a Navi.

Maybe bundled software in both sets to bump up the perceived value.

 

[gofreak]

1000x1000x2 at 110 degrees is lower than 320x200.

Really? I thought DK1/720p was equivalent to that - circa 6 degrees per arc, which would be sort of similar to 320x200 with a 60degree FOV. 1080p should not be more like 480p? Maybe my math is wrong though.

 

[BloodMoney]

I had shitty PC when HL2 came out. I played it from end to end in software rendering in 320x240 [windowed].

I LIKED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.

wow.. that is pretty hardcore/die hard.
320x240.

 

[bj00rn_]

New VR headsets need some sort of compatibility with 2D content, and this is the best solution for now. Sure, we will need maybe even 2 4K displays per headset to come close to great visuals, but better to have something than nothing.

Not really actually. Because you need even more than 4k to reach "acceptable" image quality for movie watching. ~12K-16K is probably what you need to reach crisp 1080p-level IQ at a distance. If you could somehow mechanically move the displays back however you could get rid of the pixel waste at least

 

[Mr.Green]

Been done?

It never fails to cross my mind and make me chuckle when I see that name but most people here probably weren't even born back then.

 

[Oppo]

wow.. that is pretty hardcore/die hard.
320x240.

I played hundreds of Amiga games at 320x200 and had a blast

 

[StuBurns]

Really? I thought DK1/720p was equivalent to that - circa 6 degrees per arc, which would be sort of similar to 320x200 with a 60degree FOV. 1080p should not be more like 480p? Maybe my math is wrong though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-2dQoeqVVo
14:27

 

[Seanspeed]

Wow, 200p eh? That is definitely unacceptably low for movies. We'll likely need 8K+ screens before it becomes a contender. I don't see 8k screens happening by the end of this decade. Maybe in the 2020s...

Any resolution increases we do get will see massive improvement, though. The difference between 720p and 1080p in your living room TV may be quite noticeable, but with a VR headset, that jump should be far, far more noticeable.

I think one of the worries about VR is - who is gonna make these small, super hi res screens? There's apparently a 5" 1440p display being manufactured now but lots of people already question whether that's overkill(since the market for these displays is smartphones, not VR). Obviously Sony has the capabilities, but they cant exactly be running 1440p+ displays with the PS4 hardware.

 

[Ensirius]

I seriously cannot wait to see what Sony can come up with.
VR is trully the next evolution in gaming many people have been waiting for.

 

[Durante]

1000x1000x2 at 110 degrees is lower than 320x200.

That's a strange way to calculate it. You don't have a 110° FoV per eye in the DK1 -- I don't know if it's planned for CV1, but I don't think so.

Really? I thought DK1/720p was equivalent to that - circa 6 degrees per arc, which would be sort of similar to 320x200 with a 60degree FOV. 1080p should not be more like 480p? Maybe my math is wrong though.

Your math is correct.

Edit:
Talking about high resolutions / refresh rates, which HDMI version does PS4 use?