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UC4 Game Director Justin Richmond Leaves ND (And famousmortimer leaves GAF #1393)
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
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Doctor_Thomas
Member
What was the net result from a community or truth point of view in regards to games?
Amy, Justin, Stig, Seth, Col and numerous others left, they have their reasons and if they wish to share, they will share, but who needs to know? At the end of the day, the result is the same and questions will be asked but this a personal issue between the individuals, the studios and Sony. Dragging people through the dirt over these things is disgusting, true or not. We don't ask reasons for people losing their job or leaving in a general sense, so why do we need to know unless they're willing to share?
This is where I take most issue. This didn't let me know that a game had been suffering in development or that there was a sequel to a popular franchise coming, it just singled out individual personal issues that they haven't felt the need to share, and that's wrong to the point we have Col coming here to actually give us the truth, which won't have been easy in its self.
If insiders want to leak information, it should never, ever be about individuals and absolutely never about personal issues and that includes leaving/losing/quitting a job and it makes me uncomfortable to read about it because while we look upon developers with a certain admiration, they're still people and they deserve and are entitled to their privacy. Again, this didn't benefit the gaming community, GAF or anyone involved.
I would happily read another 1000 resolution and framerate leaks over a single thread like this.
Amy, Justin, Stig, Seth, Col and numerous others left, they have their reasons and if they wish to share, they will share, but who needs to know? At the end of the day, the result is the same and questions will be asked but this a personal issue between the individuals, the studios and Sony. Dragging people through the dirt over these things is disgusting, true or not. We don't ask reasons for people losing their job or leaving in a general sense, so why do we need to know unless they're willing to share?
This is where I take most issue. This didn't let me know that a game had been suffering in development or that there was a sequel to a popular franchise coming, it just singled out individual personal issues that they haven't felt the need to share, and that's wrong to the point we have Col coming here to actually give us the truth, which won't have been easy in its self.
If insiders want to leak information, it should never, ever be about individuals and absolutely never about personal issues and that includes leaving/losing/quitting a job and it makes me uncomfortable to read about it because while we look upon developers with a certain admiration, they're still people and they deserve and are entitled to their privacy. Again, this didn't benefit the gaming community, GAF or anyone involved.
I would happily read another 1000 resolution and framerate leaks over a single thread like this.
All I want to say is mort looks like shit here, and that's unfortunate as I sincerely thought that he might be a good revelation in games media, and that it's a god damned shame Col was drug into this based almost entirely on BS. It makes me question not only gaf's authenticity, but also the enthusiast press which ran Mort's posts. Like for one of the first times I feel legit ashamed for trusting a gad insider, and from now on will treat them with that improvised skeptical nature.
However, as someone who has worked a little bit in the industry and knows some people here and there, I legit hope this doesn't discourage people from wanting a part of games development. There are some legit awesome people working in the games industry, that inspite of Mort's BS, do in fact work to the point of bone breaking to get games out the door. So please, do NOT hate the devs here. Most of the time (read: 99.9% in my experience) work as hard as they can within the realm of their work enviros to push out the best game they can. Because ffs as anyone in the industry can tell you, they could make a lot more money working in other fields if they didn't give a fuck either way. So yeah....this whole situation is a cluster fuck, but I hope with the reveal that Mort was BS will encourage more genuine skepticism toward these "insiders" who post on gaf.
However, as someone who has worked a little bit in the industry and knows some people here and there, I legit hope this doesn't discourage people from wanting a part of games development. There are some legit awesome people working in the games industry, that inspite of Mort's BS, do in fact work to the point of bone breaking to get games out the door. So please, do NOT hate the devs here. Most of the time (read: 99.9% in my experience) work as hard as they can within the realm of their work enviros to push out the best game they can. Because ffs as anyone in the industry can tell you, they could make a lot more money working in other fields if they didn't give a fuck either way. So yeah....this whole situation is a cluster fuck, but I hope with the reveal that Mort was BS will encourage more genuine skepticism toward these "insiders" who post on gaf.
DoubleTake
Member
Wow. Behind the headstones, misinformation and untasteful posts in this thread, there is actually there is a less to be had, and I've definitely picked up on it.
Best wishes to Col and his son. RIP in peace infamous Mortimer.
Best wishes to Col and his son. RIP in peace infamous Mortimer.
True shit.
For anyone who's stressed out about this (myself included) that's probably for the best.
I call bullshit on that. Col posted an hour before he made that tweet. Why did he suddenly tweet that?
IAmRandom31
Banned
Oh my.
That statement really can be used for any situation and still come across awesome lol
EmptySpace
Banned
my hypothesis is that mort gets his info from the business-side of playstation, seeing that he knows a lot about what goes on on a broader aspect rather than singling out a single dev studio.
probably someone from the finance/accounting department. those peeps know everything about a company down to who took what courses in the last 3 months. they probably have access to information all across playstation even if they work for scea, they have database access to the most confidential information. if someone is fired, if some materials get bulk-purchased, everything that goes in and out of the company money, they know.
either that, or in the marketing department.
probably someone from the finance/accounting department. those peeps know everything about a company down to who took what courses in the last 3 months. they probably have access to information all across playstation even if they work for scea, they have database access to the most confidential information. if someone is fired, if some materials get bulk-purchased, everything that goes in and out of the company money, they know.
either that, or in the marketing department.
Hockeymac18
Member
I know I might be very late to this and I'm sorry my good fellow GAFfers but it breaks my heart that the director of Driveclub had to reach us to explain a very sensitive issue about his son. He didn't have but so he did...
It also breaks my heart when people provide facts that end up being something very, very inaccurate. I don't follow closely famousmortimer but I remember to send him a PM with my thoughts long time ago (when he got some freebies from Boyes I guess?) and he thanked me for always trying to see the good things in this industry. I just wish more could see and praise the good instead of focusing on the bad side of things, hating on others (hate solves nothing). After that PM, not much changed, I guess. When someone posted a thread on GAF to fund his website I also asked some questions in there but those were left without answer and later on the thread was closed.
---
As a community we should always try to welcome anyone and provide a sense of being part of something good. Only like this a community can grow. Learning to respect each other, being helpful and so on it's already something that many of us do. And I really wish we can keep it that way. We need to focus on proper discussions, even there is a rumour then let's hear it but if you are not sure what you are saying and you just "spit" words to grab attention than that's just wrong. But what makes it more wrong is when you say something that harms others. Having to deal with a son with something like that it's already bad enough... the last thing someone like the director of Driveclub deserves is more negative talk about him not delivering or not being enough to handle Driveclub. Instead, he might need support from their friends and family but I believe that support from their fans can also be appreciated.
I know this is a great community and words can't express how glad I am to be part of GAF but in times like this I can't help but remember myself and all of us that the purpose of a community like this one must focus on what's really important about this hobby we love. Saying information about someone and make him (by conscience, not saying he was forced) to tell us his personal reasons is not a proper act of a good place like this. I'm almost ashamed that he felt the need to explain such thing to us. We can do better than this so let's keep focusing on making this the best place to talk about what we love to talk about. I'm always ready to help any GAFfer if he needs and we should always make others feel good in here, not the other way around.
Great post (regardless of whether it's late, or not). I'm always saddened and angered when Console Warzz nonsense allows so much negativity to seep into this board. I've always viewed GAF as a refuge from all the internet garbage out there (especially on gaming sites). A place where mature individuals can discuss their favorite hobby.
I hope this episode turns out to be a learning experience for all of us here.
dark_prinny
Banned
Classic.
SniperHunter
Banned
I was going to make a smart ass comment in this thread but saw that it was closed.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=784806&page=9
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=784806&page=9
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
This is also a good post that needs to be highlighted. Point #1 is particularly meaningful to me, because i think point #2 ignores that fact that there can be firings and declarations of incompetence and things that people would want to know about, or things that should be brought to light for the betterment of all. But who makes that judgment? I for one always tend to use skepticism as to the motives of the source when someone seems primarily interested in disseminating "insider" information about people and their perceived failings as leaders.
An institution can change rapidly, even recover rapidly, from bad PR. People, and their careers, far less so. Even if the bad PR is not a result of a personal vendetta, and instead more of a ignorant misstep on the part of a wannabe journo, the SEO just picks it up and runs with it.
And SEO makes little distinction between GAF, Kotaku, and Gamasutra, as do many readers.
OminousShadow
Member
I've spent the last 2 and a half hours reading the thread from Col Rodger's response up till here.
Damn, what a mess.
Col, best wishes to you and your son, hope he gets better soon.
Damn, what a mess.
Col, best wishes to you and your son, hope he gets better soon.
SniperHunter
Banned
I know I might be very late to this and I'm sorry my good fellow GAFfers but it breaks my heart that the director of Driveclub had to reach us to explain a very sensitive issue about his son. He didn't have but so he did...
It also breaks my heart when people provide facts that end up being something very, very inaccurate. I don't follow closely famousmortimer but I remember to send him a PM with my thoughts long time ago (when he got some freebies from Boyes I guess?) and he thanked me for always trying to see the good things in this industry. I just wish more could see and praise the good instead of focusing on the bad side of things, hating on others (hate solves nothing). After that PM, not much changed, I guess. When someone posted a thread on GAF to fund his website I also asked some questions in there but those were left without answer and later on the thread was closed.
---
As a community we should always try to welcome anyone and provide a sense of being part of something good. Only like this a community can grow. Learning to respect each other, being helpful and so on it's already something that many of us do. And I really wish we can keep it that way. We need to focus on proper discussions, even there is a rumour then let's hear it but if you are not sure what you are saying and you just "spit" words to grab attention than that's just wrong. But what makes it more wrong is when you say something that harms others. Having to deal with a son with something like that it's already bad enough... the last thing someone like the director of Driveclub deserves is more negative talk about him not delivering or not being enough to handle Driveclub. Instead, he might need support from their friends and family but I believe that support from their fans can also be appreciated.
I know this is a great community and words can't express how glad I am to be part of GAF but in times like this I can't help but remember myself and all of us that the purpose of a community like this one must focus on what's really important about this hobby we love. Saying information about someone and make him (by conscience, not saying he was forced) to tell us his personal reasons is not a proper act of a good place like this. I'm almost ashamed that he felt the need to explain such thing to us. We can do better than this so let's keep focusing on making this the best place to talk about what we love to talk about. I'm always ready to help any GAFfer if he needs and we should always make others feel good in here, not the other way around.
Great post Monk, words to live by. Glad to be a GAFfer.
vpance
Member
Well it can't all be interesting, but I'm appreciative of anyone who posts inside info. Like someone earlier said, it's a thankless job.
I just want to know what's going to happen at E3. SSM getting blown in half kills most of my anticipation though :/
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The internet should come with a warning pamphlet. Inside it should be a clear explanation of actor-observer effect and the fundamental attribution error. Because the vague, floaty, voyeuristic nature of the Internet greatly facilitates that kind of thinking in everyone who sits down at a keyboard.
People easily slip into the groove of baseless conjecture about other people online, and while that's nothing new as far as human behavior goes, the net has a way of allowing such speculation to run wild and develop a life of its own. It also creates a dangerous, seductive sense of empowerment in people who make guess about other people a hobby. So most of the time when we don't know shit about what is really happening with someone, we all too easily become a fountain of dreck about it.
It can be sobering when, on rare occasion, reality catches up with this common online behavior.
People easily slip into the groove of baseless conjecture about other people online, and while that's nothing new as far as human behavior goes, the net has a way of allowing such speculation to run wild and develop a life of its own. It also creates a dangerous, seductive sense of empowerment in people who make guess about other people a hobby. So most of the time when we don't know shit about what is really happening with someone, we all too easily become a fountain of dreck about it.
It can be sobering when, on rare occasion, reality catches up with this common online behavior.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Let's hope E3 is one of the best in terms of games this year, I think we all need it
SeriousApes
Member
Right on. There has been a lot of concocting of conspiracy theories lately with news of the recent departures from various studios. Though we're of course curious as to the reasons why, it doesn't excuse dragging someone through the mud on baseless accusations. Col spoke up to shine some light on the situation, but really, he shouldn't have had to do that. People have their reasons, enough said. No need to raise the pitchforks all the time.
Granted, this behavior doesn't represent every member of GAF. I think most posters have just been wondering what's going on, without imagining up some kind of dirt to explain it.
It wasn't the source. Dodd ultimately made the decision to make unconfirmed details public. Even if he knew the true reasons (good or bad) for some departures, it's none of his or our business. Someone's dismissal or departure should be private information.
Threads like this make me feel disgusted at the people who are on this site.
Mort fucked up. He forced someone to talk about his private life when Mort painted him as an incompetent. He should be and I'm glad he got banned for that.
What's disgusting here is the numerous people searching for a way to get all leakers banned because of their childish mentally and outright stupidity. You make me sick.
Someone posts some info that turns out false. "RAWR GIT HIM BANNZ". Forgetting that things do get changed during development. Forgetting that many things that person leaked were true. Oh noes. He was wrong this time. Get him banned. He made fun of my imaginary friend.
Mort fucked up. He forced someone to talk about his private life when Mort painted him as an incompetent. He should be and I'm glad he got banned for that.
What's disgusting here is the numerous people searching for a way to get all leakers banned because of their childish mentally and outright stupidity. You make me sick.
Someone posts some info that turns out false. "RAWR GIT HIM BANNZ". Forgetting that things do get changed during development. Forgetting that many things that person leaked were true. Oh noes. He was wrong this time. Get him banned. He made fun of my imaginary friend.
SSM blown in half is still over 200 developers and they're still hiring.
Wow, this is a hell of a thread.
I just hope this doesn't completely deter people who genuinely need to get some stuff out. Not all people leaking "whistleblowing" information are liars out with vendettas. Corporations are cutthroat and make sharp business decisions all the time, and of course they also do damage control and try to diffuse any negativity about said situation.
So although this one seems to have been embellished, lets not suddenly go on thinking all leaks are full of shit.
But I also hope this serves as a valuable lesson to not believe everything that shows up from a source. its a tough thing to do, balancing what could be true with what is false, but it's something that folks need to get better at.
I just hope this doesn't completely deter people who genuinely need to get some stuff out. Not all people leaking "whistleblowing" information are liars out with vendettas. Corporations are cutthroat and make sharp business decisions all the time, and of course they also do damage control and try to diffuse any negativity about said situation.
So although this one seems to have been embellished, lets not suddenly go on thinking all leaks are full of shit.
But I also hope this serves as a valuable lesson to not believe everything that shows up from a source. its a tough thing to do, balancing what could be true with what is false, but it's something that folks need to get better at.
dragonbane
Member
Again, he cleared things up with Col Rodger's friend. Whatever they cleared up doesn't seem to be about Col at all. It was probably about the "Who are you?" comment.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
I am sorry for you Col, I wish you the best of luck with your family 
Wishmaster92
Member
We need Dot 50 to do the voice over lol.
dragonbane
Member
He is not allowed to unless he gets double confirmation on it. He did a couple of times and I think what he said turned out correct. Nothing major though.
JennyTablina
Member
It's odd that people forget an important lesson from school days like this one.
Remember the kid that got singled out because you heard they did something weird/bad which is why they constantly hang by themselves or something? Mort basically forgot that spreading personal rumors about people generally have consequences, ie. that person having to deal with people treating said rumor as fact and possibly seeking out who started it to boot.
It's one thing to make a rumor about "hey Sony's working on a VR device!" or "Titanfall is gonna be 720p!" - it might be wrong, but it's not going to hurt anyone other than the "leaker" if it's wrong. The Dev team might check in to see how people are feeling about that rumor, but otherwise they can just shrug it off. It's a rumor soon forgotten once the game is released and people have moved on to whatever's next.
There's nothing inherrently wrong with being an insider if the above is the situation, if your super excited and want to share something (or...I dunno, maybe the company has suggested that people start letting a little bit slip here and there to build anticipation, I'm sure it happens) - if it's about the project, and not about the team or anything that would get people in trouble, then it's fair game long as there is a general understanding that whatever you are saying, you checked over and were sure it was not damaging. Then you are being responsible with the infomation you hold, even if part of you (as Gopher suggests) really REALLY just wants to shout about the super exciting things happening (good and bad)
When you start getting personal and saying "so-and-so bungled the project" or "so-and-so got demoted, kicked off and left" - then your words have the potential to hurt people long term. Because people will see that, and then form a opinion that this person is a diva, or has a bad record before they even look at their resume. That's not fair on the person who actually did none of those things, but is now being judged as such.
Much as the #noDRM movement was neat, I think people attribute the "success" of the movement too much to Mort anyway. It was a bit of fun and a nice way to make a statement of where the forum as consumers stood, but I imagine the truth of the matter more was that Sony were watching MS and the response quite closely, and made decisions based on the general public response to DRM related issues + it was practically an open goal for Sony by the time E3 rolled in. All they had to do was kick the ball, and they did with much gusto.
Remember the kid that got singled out because you heard they did something weird/bad which is why they constantly hang by themselves or something? Mort basically forgot that spreading personal rumors about people generally have consequences, ie. that person having to deal with people treating said rumor as fact and possibly seeking out who started it to boot.
It's one thing to make a rumor about "hey Sony's working on a VR device!" or "Titanfall is gonna be 720p!" - it might be wrong, but it's not going to hurt anyone other than the "leaker" if it's wrong. The Dev team might check in to see how people are feeling about that rumor, but otherwise they can just shrug it off. It's a rumor soon forgotten once the game is released and people have moved on to whatever's next.
There's nothing inherrently wrong with being an insider if the above is the situation, if your super excited and want to share something (or...I dunno, maybe the company has suggested that people start letting a little bit slip here and there to build anticipation, I'm sure it happens) - if it's about the project, and not about the team or anything that would get people in trouble, then it's fair game long as there is a general understanding that whatever you are saying, you checked over and were sure it was not damaging. Then you are being responsible with the infomation you hold, even if part of you (as Gopher suggests) really REALLY just wants to shout about the super exciting things happening (good and bad)
When you start getting personal and saying "so-and-so bungled the project" or "so-and-so got demoted, kicked off and left" - then your words have the potential to hurt people long term. Because people will see that, and then form a opinion that this person is a diva, or has a bad record before they even look at their resume. That's not fair on the person who actually did none of those things, but is now being judged as such.
Much as the #noDRM movement was neat, I think people attribute the "success" of the movement too much to Mort anyway. It was a bit of fun and a nice way to make a statement of where the forum as consumers stood, but I imagine the truth of the matter more was that Sony were watching MS and the response quite closely, and made decisions based on the general public response to DRM related issues + it was practically an open goal for Sony by the time E3 rolled in. All they had to do was kick the ball, and they did with much gusto.
Phaethon0017
Member
Well, I've spent the last hour and a half reading through this thread...
To think, nothing at all would have changed if Col_Rodgers hadn't defended himself. Sometimes putting 2 and 2 together still doesn't get you the right answer, and when you're doing so you had better show yours steps.
I now feel there's a level of responsibility required in this industry that not just anyone can learn instantly and get involved with. As disingenuous as gaming journalism seems they're at least professionals, for the most part.
To think, nothing at all would have changed if Col_Rodgers hadn't defended himself. Sometimes putting 2 and 2 together still doesn't get you the right answer, and when you're doing so you had better show yours steps.
I now feel there's a level of responsibility required in this industry that not just anyone can learn instantly and get involved with. As disingenuous as gaming journalism seems they're at least professionals, for the most part.
Colonel Nasty
Member
WTF?
Indeed.
Which movie please ?
I don't believe there was a source at all, I think he just pulled info out of his ass as "fact"... of course that's just speculation.
Season 2 of Arrow. Its Barry Allen (The Flash), who is also getting a spinoff series
*nerd talk*
what do you mean wtf?
Do you not see the lynch mob forming to go after the leakers?
Statham got banned for saying we still had thuway left.
When CBOAT got banned you had people pratically waving their dicks that the big bad leaker was banned.
It's insane.
vpance
Member
True true. These firing overreactions, obsessions over downgradeatons and general underwhelmed by next gen comments on here are turning this place into a sad nitpick fest.
Yeah. I'm more saddened by the loss of what was possible. As in a top first party dev's fruits of labor after 4 years in the making.
It's from the TV series Arrow. Good show, check it out.
After reading several posts from this thread and the one about his kickstarter, I do believe that at least a large percentage of Gaf dislikes the guy, or at the very least, believes him to be overrated.
I still listen to his Doddcast. Even while in the middle of moving he was still trying to record it. Even with limited budget he bought an XB1 to help him review. I see him as the opposite of Col. Not in a bad way, but as a regular Joe that puts gaming enthusiasm above his own life; while Col has chosen to place personal life over game dev.
http://www.cinemablend.com/m/games/...ow-PS4NoDRM-Helped-Sony-Market-PS4-57036.html
My argument is that perhaps Sony not thinking it was an issue was the problem. The significance here is that they took notice and acknowledged #PS4NoDRM. Whether it affected their decision or not is moot. In the end, that awareness snowballed into their successful "We care about our consumers" angle they've been working with since E3. But lets say for the sake of argument that was all coincidence and this is hyperbolic reasoning: A fellow gamer becoming passionate enough to stand up for their consumer rights and at least making an effort for their concerns to be heard by a company of thousands of people is a good thing, is it not? Well thats what I respect him for, though not to make light of this current fubar.
Anyways, I don't want to derail the thread.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
The leakers would get banned in due time if needed. Like here. People need to let the mods worry about this.
Colonel Nasty
Member
Who are these lynch mobs?
Pete has replied to my email, and he's going to try to put things right. That being the case, it's all good.
As for helping me out with my boy - thanks very much for the offer, but it's basically a case of time will tell. He's on some pretty obnoxious drugs (steroids and this stuff which is used in chemotherapy), which we're hoping will sort him out. He's being looked after.
I appreciate the support, though - genuinely. You guys have restored my faith in humanity and the internet.
Just caught up with things. It sucks that this all got so personal, sorry to hear about the current situation Col. I hope everything goes well and your son gets better. Good luck with your indie studio, keep doing what you love buddy!
Was there, can personally confirm they were streaming and Geoff was there
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