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[SlimySnake]

Shit fails, it’s the way things go sometimes. It’s just not what microsoft need right now, they need to be able to nurture great studios. Obviously, throwing money at the so called best in the biz and poaching shit loads of staff doesn’t guarantee that it will all work. hopefully, the staff who ms hired had a good experience and moved on with a fat pay cheque And importantly hopefully, MS also have learnt a lot.

i Don’t know how this has gone but it doesn’t look great overall. I just hope the game turns out great,

microsoft, please don’t show games until they are at most a year out.

This isnt a Microsoft problem. Nearly ALL AAA studios seem to be struggling to put out games. There is a reason why we have a total of ZERO next gen only games on Xbox and it's not just because MS first party studios failed. None of the third party studios are ready. Even Bethesda which used to make games every 3-4 years has now taken 7 years to make Starfield. And yes, I know Fallout 76 came out in 2018 but lets face it, the main team was working on Starfield.

Even Sony studios have had a horrendous gen. BP and Housemarque werent even Sony owned when they released their next gen games. Ratchet is pretty much the only next gen game released by Sony's internal studio and will be the only one until Spiderman comes out in late 2023.

Bioware is missing in action since 2019. It's been 3 years. Nothing. Suicide Squad has taken 7 years and will be delayed to next year. It looks last gen as fuck anyway. Then you have Kojima who is typically very productive but for some reason has nothing to show 2.5 years after shipping death stranding. Crystal Dynamics is only just starting pre-production on next gen Tomb Raider and now that will be delayed by years thanks to Perfect Dark. Naughty Dog is nowhere to be found. It's been almost 2 years since they shipped TLOU2 and nothing. Not even factions which is most likely last gen. They were very productive releasing 3 AAA games last gen. Even shipping TLOU2 within 3 years of shipping Lost Legacy.

This is an industry wide problem. It just looks worse for MS because they havent had the best track record with first party. I would love to blame Phil for making Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite Last gen, but Sony's entire lineup this year is cross gen. Every third party game is cross gen. Hell, I have no doubt that the next RE game, the next FF game, the next Star Wars Jedi Fallen order game, and the next AC game will all be cross gen. Nitnendo hasnt released a Zelda, Mario or Metroid game since 2017. Those are their only AAA franchises so they've basically had nothing for an AAA only gamer like myself.

No one knows how to make games anymore so they make the same thing over and over again. No offense to Horizon or Elden Rings, but my god, they both felt pretty much identical to their predecessors. Elden Rings especially. I was like I cant go through any Souls mode trauma. The game looks like a PS3 game. Ratchet felt like a PS3 game with CG quality graphics and some fancy loading gimmicks. Halo felt like Halo 1. The new Metroid is literally 2D. What is this 1995? Forza Horizon 5 felt like FH3. Im like what is different here?? A grappling hook? Mexico? GT7 finally added a single player mode thats been in the series since its inception and we are like OMG, such innovation!

Games have stagnated. Devs have stopped innovating. That isnt on Microsoft, Sony or Ubisoft. It's the devs. They need a kick up the ass, not nurturing.

 

[Dr Bass]

This isnt a Microsoft problem. Nearly ALL AAA studios seem to be struggling to put out games. There is a reason why we have a total of ZERO next gen only games on Xbox and it's not just because MS first party studios failed. None of the third party studios are ready. Even Bethesda which used to make games every 3-4 years has now taken 7 years to make Starfield. And yes, I know Fallout 76 came out in 2018 but lets face it, the main team was working on Starfield.

Even Sony studios have had a horrendous gen. BP and Housemarque werent even Sony owned when they released their next gen games. Ratchet is pretty much the only next gen game released by Sony's internal studio and will be the only one until Spiderman comes out in late 2023.

Bioware is missing in action since 2019. It's been 3 years. Nothing. Suicide Squad has taken 7 years and will be delayed to next year. It looks last gen as fuck anyway. Then you have Kojima who is typically very productive but for some reason has nothing to show 2.5 years after shipping death stranding. Crystal Dynamics is only just starting pre-production on next gen Tomb Raider and now that will be delayed by years thanks to Perfect Dark. Naughty Dog is nowhere to be found. It's been almost 2 years since they shipped TLOU2 and nothing. Not even factions which is most likely last gen. They were very productive releasing 3 AAA games last gen. Even shipping TLOU2 within 3 years of shipping Lost Legacy.

This is an industry wide problem. It just looks worse for MS because they havent had the best track record with first party. I would love to blame Phil for making Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite Last gen, but Sony's entire lineup this year is cross gen. Every third party game is cross gen. Hell, I have no doubt that the next RE game, the next FF game, the next Star Wars Jedi Fallen order game, and the next AC game will all be cross gen. Nitnendo hasnt released a Zelda, Mario or Metroid game since 2017. Those are their only AAA franchises so they've basically had nothing for an AAA only gamer like myself.

No one knows how to make games anymore so they make the same thing over and over again. No offense to Horizon or Elden Rings, but my god, they both felt pretty much identical to their predecessors. Elden Rings especially. I was like I cant go through any Souls mode trauma. The game looks like a PS3 game. Ratchet felt like a PS3 game with CG quality graphics and some fancy loading gimmicks. Halo felt like Halo 1. The new Metroid is literally 2D. What is this 1995? Forza Horizon 5 felt like FH3. Im like what is different here?? A grappling hook? Mexico? GT7 finally added a single player mode thats been in the series since its inception and we are like OMG, such innovation!

Games have stagnated. Devs have stopped innovating. That isnt on Microsoft, Sony or Ubisoft. It's the devs. They need a kick up the ass, not nurturing.

So, I mostly agree, but not because devs don't know how to make games. Returnal was incredible IMO. Ratchet was a rock solid and fun 10 hour game IMO. Horizon had some of the best production values I've ever seen even though I thought it was average as a game.

I think the issue is just the cost of making these things now, something Nintendo has warned about since the Wii days and why they didn't go the direction of trying to run the massive production race.

Punished Miku

A couple of PS1 Sony developed games I've remembered:
Gran Turismo
Jumping Flash
Syphon Filter
MediEvil
Ape Escape
The Legend of Dragoon
Wipeout - This game was a massive selling point for PSX too.
Colony Wars

Dunno if you were playing a lot at this time, but these were all really popular games. I think that's actually one of the complaints of a lot of the dedicated PS players, is that the old feeling of variety and creativity seems gone in favor of story driven 3rd person action games. I can definitely see that. It also relates to Slimy's complaint above.

I know there is more, and there were some collabs, and like I mentioned they had a lot of publishing deals, and publishers are responsible for driving the dev studio towards the desired result. So in effect, still managing the project. Bottom line, IMO they have executed exceptionally well to come into a well established market and take it by storm in the way they did. In fact, accepting they kicked my favorite's arse, so long ago, is basically what helped me get over the console warring thing in the first place (thankfully as a very young person). Some of the games I (begrudgingly) played on PSX were just absolutely amazing games and I realized then and there that artificially limiting yourself only hurts your own experiences.

 

[Papacheeks]

Did you check the link I posted? Those are first party games. When a platform holder publishes a game, that is a first party game. But to get more specific, here are numbers for the platforms when it was developed by Sony:

Every IGN PlayStation First-Party Exclusive Review - IGN

With Sony's next big console exclusive on the horizon in Death Stranding, we're looking back at ALL 227 IGN reviews of first-party PlayStation exclusives.

www.ign.com

17 first party games on PS1. 52 on PS2. 76 on PS3. Etc.

I was working at Software Etc. selling this stuff when PS1/N64 was around. PS1 had plenty of exclusive first party software. And third party as well. And Xbox got into this around when, 2001? They have existed for most of the time that PS has. They just have no excuse. This idea that it "just takes time" like it's a decades long ramp up is just not true.

I just don't think it's a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, those are just the numbers and the facts?

You old Fuck, lol. Anything 939 is Sony First party which includes Jet Moto, MLB, Twisted Metal 2,3,4, 2xtreme.3xtreme, cool boarders, blasto, syphon filter series.

Sony had a lot. ANd then the flood gates opened in PS2.

This isnt a Microsoft problem. Nearly ALL AAA studios seem to be struggling to put out games. There is a reason why we have a total of ZERO next gen only games on Xbox and it's not just because MS first party studios failed. None of the third party studios are ready. Even Bethesda which used to make games every 3-4 years has now taken 7 years to make Starfield. And yes, I know Fallout 76 came out in 2018 but lets face it, the main team was working on Starfield.

Even Sony studios have had a horrendous gen. BP and Housemarque werent even Sony owned when they released their next gen games. Ratchet is pretty much the only next gen game released by Sony's internal studio and will be the only one until Spiderman comes out in late 2023.

Bioware is missing in action since 2019. It's been 3 years. Nothing. Suicide Squad has taken 7 years and will be delayed to next year. It looks last gen as fuck anyway. Then you have Kojima who is typically very productive but for some reason has nothing to show 2.5 years after shipping death stranding. Crystal Dynamics is only just starting pre-production on next gen Tomb Raider and now that will be delayed by years thanks to Perfect Dark. Naughty Dog is nowhere to be found. It's been almost 2 years since they shipped TLOU2 and nothing. Not even factions which is most likely last gen. They were very productive releasing 3 AAA games last gen. Even shipping TLOU2 within 3 years of shipping Lost Legacy.

This is an industry wide problem. It just looks worse for MS because they havent had the best track record with first party. I would love to blame Phil for making Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite Last gen, but Sony's entire lineup this year is cross gen. Every third party game is cross gen. Hell, I have no doubt that the next RE game, the next FF game, the next Star Wars Jedi Fallen order game, and the next AC game will all be cross gen. Nitnendo hasnt released a Zelda, Mario or Metroid game since 2017. Those are their only AAA franchises so they've basically had nothing for an AAA only gamer like myself.

No one knows how to make games anymore so they make the same thing over and over again. No offense to Horizon or Elden Rings, but my god, they both felt pretty much identical to their predecessors. Elden Rings especially. I was like I cant go through any Souls mode trauma. The game looks like a PS3 game. Ratchet felt like a PS3 game with CG quality graphics and some fancy loading gimmicks. Halo felt like Halo 1. The new Metroid is literally 2D. What is this 1995? Forza Horizon 5 felt like FH3. Im like what is different here?? A grappling hook? Mexico? GT7 finally added a single player mode thats been in the series since its inception and we are like OMG, such innovation!

Games have stagnated. Devs have stopped innovating. That isnt on Microsoft, Sony or Ubisoft. It's the devs. They need a kick up the ass, not nurturing.

It is a Industry issue, but I have to totally disagree with you. You would have to be on crack to say the bolded about Sony having a horrendous gen. Regardless of Sony not owning Housemarque at the time, they paid for development of Returnal its their game. Also Sony literally put out the same year they launched a new fucking console Ghost of tsushima, Last of us part 2, MLB the show all while also launching Astro, Miles Morales, Spiderman remastered, Demons Souls, sackboy's big adventure. Those studios pretty much were first party because sony paid for those games to be made. Then followed it with Ratchet, returnal, and now Horizon, GT7, and later this year God of war?

How the fuck can you say Sony's studios have been horrendous when they seem to be the most consistent in releasing quality games in a timely fashion regardless if they meet your " next gen" standards? They all make use of the hardware, regardless if they are on PS4.

Like the amount of games Sony has in the pipeline and what they have launched during a fucking pandemic should be commended. Where was Microsoft's launch titles in 2020? Where was there any fucking releases of note in 2020 Form Microsoft? How bout 2019? They had fucking Gears 5 and Forza then nothing until Gears Tactics.

Sony literally has released games for both PS4 and PS5 in the same fucking year. ANd those last two PS4 titles were bangers to end the gen on.

It's like you live in an alternate reality that only your perception of the industry is what you see? Even Nintendo as slow as they are is putting out games, I mean slower, but still every game they have put out has been quality hits.

Sony's pipeline in development is now the well oiled machine they wanted a long time ago. Now with how great their tools and API is, according to most developers its the easiest platform to get games up and running. Microsoft just recently this week finalized and released their Direct Storage for PC developers finally.

And its Microsoft who is way behind in development of software not Sony, or to an extent Nintendo. Its the rest of the industry thats full of bloat, and giant 1,000 employed studios like Ubisoft, 343 who cant put a complete game out.

 

[Dr Bass]

You old Fuck, lol. Anything 939 is Sony First party which includes Jet Moto, MLB, Twisted Metal 2,3,4, 2xtreme.3xtreme, cool boarders, blasto, syphon filter series.

Sony had a lot. ANd then the flood gates opened in PS2.

Hell yeah I'm an old ... whatever you want to call me. Thankfully I don't look it at least. Born in the early 80s. You do the math.

 

[Papacheeks]

Hell yeah I'm an old ... whatever you want to call me. Thankfully I don't look it at least. Born in the early 80s. You do the math.

i was born in 84 my friend

 

[Yoboman]

Idk if people need to be "worried", though. What apparently happened is that some Initiative dudes were unhappy that Crystal Dynamics was running the show and they had no say in it. Maybe Microsoft promised them much more creative freedom and now they found themselves to be just a cog in the Crystal Dynamics machine, so they left. This doesn't mean the game is in trouble though, it's just gonna be a Crystal Dynamics game.

Why would MS completely change the developer mid project if the game wasn't in trouble?

 

[Hobbygaming]

how do people have time to do this kind of digging, do they actually play games? I’m only speaking for myself but I would never, ever, ever look through linked in or dig through employee history to do this kind of shit. Like how many hours do people have free and why wouldn’t they be playing games instead? Crazy fans are crazy!

It took me less than 10 minutes I game for much longer than that daily

 

[Dr Bass]

i was born in 84 my friend

https://c.tenor.com/8P8FvicG6H4AAAAC/monty-python-touch-tips.gif

Older dudes unite!

We still got some time though, before we are actually old.

 

[Dr Bass]

What if I told you that actually they are playing their favorite game.

Ok, this was brilliant.

 

[Loope]

Hell yeah I'm an old ... whatever you want to call me. Thankfully I don't look it at least. Born in the early 80s. You do the math.

Shit, if you're old, i'm a mummy. 1976

 

[Dr Bass]

Shit, if you're old, i'm a mummy. 1976

Nah not at all. My brother is older than you and he still looks like a young dude. I know that wouldn't be true for everyone but old to me is ... 80+.

When my grandpa was still around, he was telling me in his late 80s and early 90s how he would see guys out on the golf course in their 60s and he and his buddies would refer to them as "the young kids." It's all in your perspective!

 

[Loope]

Nah not at all. My brother is older than you and he still looks like a young dude. I know that wouldn't be true for everyone but old to me is ... 80+.

When my grandpa was still around, he was telling me in his late 80s and early 90s how he would see guys out on the golf course in their 60s and he and his buddies would refer to them as "the young kids." It's all in your perspective!

True. It's all in our mind, except when it envolves physical performance of course ahah.

 

[freefornow]

A couple of PS1 Sony developed games I've remembered:
Gran Turismo
Jumping Flash
Syphon Filter
MediEvil
Ape Escape
The Legend of Dragoon
Wipeout - This game was a massive selling point for PSX too.
Colony Wars

Man, that was a hell of time to be a console gamer.
My memberberries are more like membermangos when it comes to PS1 era

 

[SlimySnake]

It is a Industry issue, but I have to totally disagree with you. You would have to be on crack to say the bolded about Sony having a horrendous gen. Regardless of Sony not owning Housemarque at the time, they paid for development of Returnal its their game. Also Sony literally put out the same year they launched a new fucking console Ghost of tsushima, Last of us part 2, MLB the show all while also launching Astro, Miles Morales, Spiderman remastered, Demons Souls, sackboy's big adventure. Those studios pretty much were first party because sony paid for those games to be made. Then followed it with Ratchet, returnal, and now Horizon, GT7, and later this year God of war?

How the fuck can you say Sony's studios have been horrendous when they seem to be the most consistent in releasing quality games in a timely fashion regardless if they meet your " next gen" standards? They all make use of the hardware, regardless if they are on PS4.

Like the amount of games Sony has in the pipeline and what they have launched during a fucking pandemic should be commended. Where was Microsoft's launch titles in 2020? Where was there any fucking releases of note in 2020 Form Microsoft? How bout 2019? They had fucking Gears 5 and Forza then nothing until Gears Tactics.

Sony literally has released games for both PS4 and PS5 in the same fucking year. ANd those last two PS4 titles were bangers to end the gen on.

It's like you live in an alternate reality that only your perception of the industry is what you see? Even Nintendo as slow as they are is putting out games, I mean slower, but still every game they have put out has been quality hits.

Sony's pipeline in development is now the well oiled machine they wanted a long time ago. Now with how great their tools and API is, according to most developers its the easiest platform to get games up and running. Microsoft just recently this week finalized and released their Direct Storage for PC developers finally.

And its Microsoft who is way behind in development of software not Sony, or to an extent Nintendo. Its the rest of the industry thats full of bloat, and giant 1,000 employed studios like Ubisoft, 343 who cant put a complete game out.

To me, Returnal and Demon Souls cant be attributed to Sony first party just like how Dench chose not to count Starfield as MS first party. It's a Bethesda game. Just because Sony owns the IP doesnt mean BP and Returnal were Sony first party when the games were released. By definition, they are second party studio. What's next? Should we count Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo as MS games just because MS bought the publisher? We are talking about Sony first party here. Studios like SSM, GG, SP, ND, PD, Bend, Insomniac. Only Insomniac has delivered so far this gen, and even that game is basically the same shit we have been playing since forever.

I couldnt care less what Sony put out last gen. Spiderman, Miles, TLOU 2, Ghost. Who gives a fuck? Sony won last gen in every way. That was two years ago. Time to move on. I am literally talking about current gen. What next gen game has Sony first party released this gen? Ratchet. Thats it. If 1 game in a year and a half isnt horrendous then how about the fact that for the next 1.5 years, they dont have anything other than Spiderman 2 announced? So 2 next gen games in 3 years isnt horrendous?

I dont care how good Sony's tools are. I dont care how Nintendo games sell well. CoD sells well. Couldnt care less. Nintendo's seal of quality means nothing to me when they havent been able to make a 3D metroid in 14 years. Elden Rings has a 96 metacritic. FH5 has a 94 metacritic and I think they are both basically the same damn game ive been playing for almost a decade. I want next gen games for my next gen system. Paid fucking $500 for this thing. Who cares how far behind Microsoft is with tools and how bad they were last gen? We are in the second year of this gen and the tally is 1-0 in Sony's favor. Hardly amazing. 3-0 if you count the BP and Housemarque games. By the end of the year it will be 3-1 if Starfield comes out on time. You just trashed Microsoft as being so far behind Sony that me uttering MS and Sony in the same vein was some kind of cardinal sin.

The truth is Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft have turned into Ubisoft, EA and Activision. They have all found themselves chasing the Ubisoft open world formula and unlike Ubisoft, forgot to scale up their studio and have now ended up taking 5-7 years making games that feel so samey they might as well be DLC.

 

[Hobbygaming]

In the words of R.Kelly ....define....crazy?

 

[Dr Bass]

To me, Returnal and Demon Souls cant be attributed to Sony first party just like how Dench chose not to count Starfield as MS first party. It's a Bethesda game. Just because Sony owns the IP doesnt mean BP and Returnal were Sony first party when the games were released. By definition, they are second party studio. What's next? Should we count Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo as MS games just because MS bought the publisher? We are talking about Sony first party here. Studios like SSM, GG, SP, ND, PD, Bend, Insomniac. Only Insomniac has delivered so far this gen, and even that game is basically the same shit we have been playing since forever.

I couldnt care less what Sony put out last gen. Spiderman, Miles, TLOU 2, Ghost. Who gives a fuck? Sony won last gen in every way. That was two years ago. Time to move on. I am literally talking about current gen. What next gen game has Sony first party released this gen? Ratchet. Thats it. If 1 game in a year and a half isnt horrendous then how about the fact that for the next 1.5 years, they dont have anything other than Spiderman 2 announced? So 2 next gen games in 3 years isnt horrendous?

I dont care how good Sony's tools are. I dont care how Nintendo games sell well. CoD sells well. Couldnt care less. Nintendo's seal of quality means nothing to me when they havent been able to make a 3D metroid in 14 years. Elden Rings has a 96 metacritic. FH5 has a 94 metacritic and I think they are both basically the same damn game ive been playing for almost a decade. I want next gen games for my next gen system. Paid fucking $500 for this thing. Who cares how far behind Microsoft is with tools and how bad they were last gen? We are in the second year of this gen and the tally is 1-0 in Sony's favor. Hardly amazing. 3-0 if you count the BP and Housemarque games. By the end of the year it will be 3-1 if Starfield comes out on time. You just trashed Microsoft as being so far behind Sony that me uttering MS and Sony in the same vein was some kind of cardinal sin.

The truth is Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft have turned into Ubisoft, EA and Activision. They have all found themselves chasing the Ubisoft open world formula and unlike Ubisoft, forgot to scale up their studio and have now ended up taking 5-7 years making games that feel so samey they might as well be DLC.

Second party doesn't exist, this board has gone over this, industry workers have confirmed this. It's first or third party.

Returnal was made in direct conjunction with Sony. So was Demon's Souls. There is a reason they own it.

Starfield is not really an MS game because they had nothing to do with the inception of the game. They were not part of the creative process.

Your summary of what the current publishers are doing is wrong, and your definition of "next-gen" is short sighted and bad.

 

[Papacheeks]

To me, Returnal and Demon Souls cant be attributed to Sony first party just like how Dench chose not to count Starfield as MS first party. It's a Bethesda game. Just because Sony owns the IP doesnt mean BP and Returnal were Sony first party when the games were released. By definition, they are second party studio. What's next? Should we count Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo as MS games just because MS bought the publisher? We are talking about Sony first party here. Studios like SSM, GG, SP, ND, PD, Bend, Insomniac. Only Insomniac has delivered so far this gen, and even that game is basically the same shit we have been playing since forever.

I couldnt care less what Sony put out last gen. Spiderman, Miles, TLOU 2, Ghost. Who gives a fuck? Sony won last gen in every way. That was two years ago. Time to move on. I am literally talking about current gen. What next gen game has Sony first party released this gen? Ratchet. Thats it. If 1 game in a year and a half isnt horrendous then how about the fact that for the next 1.5 years, they dont have anything other than Spiderman 2 announced? So 2 next gen games in 3 years isnt horrendous?

I dont care how good Sony's tools are. I dont care how Nintendo games sell well. CoD sells well. Couldnt care less. Nintendo's seal of quality means nothing to me when they havent been able to make a 3D metroid in 14 years. Elden Rings has a 96 metacritic. FH5 has a 94 metacritic and I think they are both basically the same damn game ive been playing for almost a decade. I want next gen games for my next gen system. Paid fucking $500 for this thing. Who cares how far behind Microsoft is with tools and how bad they were last gen? We are in the second year of this gen and the tally is 1-0 in Sony's favor. Hardly amazing. 3-0 if you count the BP and Housemarque games. By the end of the year it will be 3-1 if Starfield comes out on time. You just trashed Microsoft as being so far behind Sony that me uttering MS and Sony in the same vein was some kind of cardinal sin.

The truth is Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft have turned into Ubisoft, EA and Activision. They have all found themselves chasing the Ubisoft open world formula and unlike Ubisoft, forgot to scale up their studio and have now ended up taking 5-7 years making games that feel so samey they might as well be DLC.

WTF are you smoking?

Sony contracted to have Returnal, along with other titles in the past from Housemarque made? Pre-purchase. Microsoft bought bethesda after we already knew about starfield?



This was fucking 2018.

Sony literally paid for development making it basically their fucking game. Same as Nintendo paying for Bayonetta 2 development, Astral Chain, Ultimate Alliance 3, Wonderful 101.

So you think SOny has nothing in the works or releasing in the next 12 months besides Spiderman 2? Like what reality are you fucking living? Sucker Punch is on a new game on top of a sequel to GOT. Pixelopus has new game plus a possible collection. Bluepoint has 2 games they are working on. Naughty dog has multiple games they are working on one thats a collection+remake, on top of a new IP. Bend is on a new IP. Second team at Guerilla is fairly far along on their next game which I hear is a tactical shooter of sorts.

SANTA Monica has a new IP being lead by Cory.

I'm putting you on ignore because you seem to be in your own head from what is actually reality to the amount of titles Sony has put out Internally and through paid development from third party.

 

[Hobbygaming]

You're making a blanket statement about "Microsoft's management on software" due to one example? Huh? The largest software manufacturer in the world you're saying has management problems? WTF are you on? LOL

Looking at history I'd say it's management at fault too. Look at Rare and how Sea of Thieves launched and how Everwild was announced and they don't know what kind of game it'll be yet, Halo Infinite and the whole Craig thing/missing features, Avowed lost its director too IIRC

MS had Casey Hudson the creator of Mass Effect, working on AR projects that never materialized

I think they need some fine tuning in the management area

 

[Hobbygaming]

To me, Returnal and Demon Souls cant be attributed to Sony first party just like how Dench chose not to count Starfield as MS first party. It's a Bethesda game. Just because Sony owns the IP doesnt mean BP and Returnal were Sony first party when the games were released. By definition, they are second party studio. What's next? Should we count Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo as MS games just because MS bought the publisher? We are talking about Sony first party here. Studios like SSM, GG, SP, ND, PD, Bend, Insomniac. Only Insomniac has delivered so far this gen, and even that game is basically the same shit we have been playing since forever.

I couldnt care less what Sony put out last gen. Spiderman, Miles, TLOU 2, Ghost. Who gives a fuck? Sony won last gen in every way. That was two years ago. Time to move on. I am literally talking about current gen. What next gen game has Sony first party released this gen? Ratchet. Thats it. If 1 game in a year and a half isnt horrendous then how about the fact that for the next 1.5 years, they dont have anything other than Spiderman 2 announced? So 2 next gen games in 3 years isnt horrendous?

I dont care how good Sony's tools are. I dont care how Nintendo games sell well. CoD sells well. Couldnt care less. Nintendo's seal of quality means nothing to me when they havent been able to make a 3D metroid in 14 years. Elden Rings has a 96 metacritic. FH5 has a 94 metacritic and I think they are both basically the same damn game ive been playing for almost a decade. I want next gen games for my next gen system. Paid fucking $500 for this thing. Who cares how far behind Microsoft is with tools and how bad they were last gen? We are in the second year of this gen and the tally is 1-0 in Sony's favor. Hardly amazing. 3-0 if you count the BP and Housemarque games. By the end of the year it will be 3-1 if Starfield comes out on time. You just trashed Microsoft as being so far behind Sony that me uttering MS and Sony in the same vein was some kind of cardinal sin.

The truth is Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft have turned into Ubisoft, EA and Activision. They have all found themselves chasing the Ubisoft open world formula and unlike Ubisoft, forgot to scale up their studio and have now ended up taking 5-7 years making games that feel so samey they might as well be DLC.

Sony Japan did work on the Demon Souls remake and X-Dev did work on Returnal, so it's not the same as getting credit for a game just because you bought the studio

 

[mckmas8808]

Looking at history I'd say it's management at fault too. Look at Rare and how Sea of Thieves launched, Halo Infinite and the whole Craig thing/missing features, Avowed lost its director too IIRC

MS had Casey Hudson the creator of Mass Effect, working on AR projects that never materialized

I think they need some fine tuning in the management area

Can someone please tell me how MS is going to fix this now that they own 2.5 million studios? I'm really starting to feel like MS buying all those devs might end up being a net negative for them by the year 2030.

 

[Riky]

Nah, there's nothing contradictory about it. Nothing has changed about their ambitions as a developer. They were created to make the biggest and most ambitious possible games for Xbox. However, their team isn't large enough to do that entirely on their own yet, but they apparently have an idea with a perfect dark reboot they would like to do SOONER rather than 10-12 years from now. How are they to accomplish that when despite all the large number of jobs they've put out there, they just haven't grown quite enough at a fast enough pace to be able to do so. And taking existing or new Microsoft internal studios off their own projects isn't practical.

So Microsoft went and got a partner for Initiative. Not just ANY partner, the PERFECT partner, the very team I've said for years I hoped WOULD join The Initiative because of their history with head of The Initiative, who use to be the head of Crystal Dynamics. It's a match made in heaven. Some of the Initiative team seem to not like that, and maybe wanted all the glory or attention on themselves, and now likely hate that Crystal Dynamics will soak up all the oxygen and get the lion share of the credit for the game that's produced, but it is what it is. The Initiative isn't big enough to take on development of this scale by themselves yet.

Their ambitions have not changed. It's just they haven't grown enough to meet their ambitions without a big co development partner like Crystal Dynamics yet.





And they aren't saying anything different. They're still out to make a cinematic, ambitious AAA story experience based on the Perfect Dark IP. But if they aren't large enough by themselves to do it, and they want to get on with a major game now. I'm okay with that. Maybe when The Initiative is able to do it all on their own, great, but if they aren't, I'd still like Perfect Dark development to get a move on.

And if they decide that The Initiative is no longer necessary and they by some stroke of luck can buy Crystal Dynamics? Then I say, make that your team and then just merge what's inside The Initiative with them.

As long as the game comes out good nobody is going to care about how it got there in the end, deliver another high scoring game and bring a treasured franchise back to life and the rest becomes totally irrelevant.

 

[Lognor]

Looking at history I'd say it's management at fault too. Look at Rare and how Sea of Thieves launched, Halo Infinite and the whole Craig thing/missing features, Avowed lost its director too IIRC

MS had Casey Hudson the creator of Mass Effect, working on AR projects that never materialized

I think they need some fine tuning in the management area

As others have posted, none of this is exclusive to Microsoft. Sony too has lost a ton of people. Look at the mass exodus from Sony Japan not too long ago. I suppose there wasn't much discussion about that, which probably speaks to why they were being moved to more of a support studio. I've never heard of Shannon Studstill, but she was the founder and head of Sony Santa Monica and she is gone. Where is all the concern for GOW2? They don't have their head of studio anymore! The list goes on and on. Sony has lost a shit ton of people. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

Nintendo probably as well, although that doesn't seem to generate as much news. Hell, there is a reason that Sony set aside over a billion dollars to keep people from leaving Bungie. A billion dollars! That's insane for the number of people at Bungie and that speaks volumes.

And your examples of how Sea of Thieves and Halo Infinite launched, what do you mean? That they were more barebones? Well what about Gran Turismo Sport that launched barebones? Was the management at Sony/Polyphony at fault for that game? But then Polyphony went on to redeem themselves with GT7? But I don't recall Sony's management being called into question after that release. Or what about the barebones games that Nintendo has released (Mario Golf, Mario Party, etc.). Why is Nintendo not being called out for their poor management?

Help me to understand this. These examples you've given with these games releasing not feature complete or people leaving.....it's happening all the time with many other publishers. So how is Microsoft different and their management is lacking but that same analysis doesn't apply to the others?

 

[Batiman]

Damn why is this thread so huge? Could be good news or could be bad. Just wait to see it

 

[JTCx]

Looking at history I'd say it's management at fault too. Look at Rare and how Sea of Thieves launched and how Everwild was announced and they don't know what kind of game it'll be yet, Halo Infinite and the whole Craig thing/missing features, Avowed lost its director too IIRC

MS had Casey Hudson the creator of Mass Effect, working on AR projects that never materialized

I think they need some fine tuning in the management area

Lets not forget motherfucking phantom dust 2. They couldve had something great.

 

[SlimySnake]

WTF are you smoking?

Sony contracted to have Returnal, along with other titles in the past from Housemarque made? Pre-purchase. Microsoft bought bethesda after we already knew about starfield?



This was fucking 2018.

Sony literally paid for development making it basically their fucking game. Same as Nintendo paying for Bayonetta 2 development, Astral Chain, Ultimate Alliance 3, Wonderful 101.

So you think SOny has nothing in the works or releasing in the next 12 months besides Spiderman 2? Like what reality are you fucking living? Sucker Punch is on a new game on top of a sequel to GOT. Pixelopus has new game plus a possible collection. Bluepoint has 2 games they are working on. Naughty dog has multiple games they are working on one thats a collection+remake, on top of a new IP. Bend is on a new IP. Second team at Guerilla is fairly far along on their next game which I hear is a tactical shooter of sorts.

SANTA Monica has a new IP being lead by Cory.

I'm putting you on ignore because you seem to be in your own head from what is actually reality to the amount of titles Sony has put out Internally and through paid development from third party.

lol If Housemarque and Bluepoint were FIRST PARTY STUDIOS, Sony wouldnt have had to buy them. I dont know why this is so hard. It doesnt matter who funded what. We are talking about FIRST PARTY OUTPUT. It's the main reason why Dench didnt count Starfield even though 2 years after the Zenimax purchase, technically Starfield IS first party, but we are not counting it because we are talking about their first party output. Ninja Theory, 343, Obsidian, PlayGround Games, Coalition Games. Who cares who Sony acquired last year?

Read this with me.

Even Sony studios have had a horrendous gen.

Sony studios. Not Sony published games. Not Sony partner games. Not Sony funded games. Or moneyhats. Just Sony studios.

The funny thing is that I relented and even let you count them. The tally is literally 3-0. 3-1 by the time Starfield releases. And then you have a meltdown because I choose NOT to count games that havent even been announced? I mean we literally dont even know the name of these games. We have never seen them. Sony hasnt even shown a fucking CG trailer for them. Your source is rumors. And you think they will release them in the next 1.5 years? LMAO and I am the one living in an alternate reality?

The way you talk is hilarious. You make it sound like you brought receipts and have listed a bunch of next gen games Sony is releasing this year and before Spiderman. And all you had were rumors. Like come on. I dont mind rumors, but dont use them as a tool to win arguments and accuse people of living under a rock as if these are announcements we missed while we had our head in the sand.

Lastly, if Returnal, Ratchet and Demon Souls are the best you can do then thats not good enough for me. None of these games scream next gen. DS is literally the same exact game with a new coat of paint. Ratchet plays exactly like it always has. Returnal is excellent, but it could be a PS4 game and no one would notice. Expect better from everyone. Have higher standards. This isnt just about graphics. It's about standards set by Sony's own first party studios last gen. Standards they have failed to live up to.

P.S I trash Elden Rings, FH5, Metroid ... some of the highest reviewed games of all time as samey, and you only took issue with my trashing of sony games. You are so obvious with your bias, its kinda sad.

 

[Lognor]

Sony Japan did work on the Demon Souls remake and X-Dev did work on Returnal, so it's not the same as getting credit for a game just because you bought the studio

But Starfield is still in development. It has not gone gold. Microsoft ABSOLUTELY deserves credit for Starfield, regardless as to how it turns out. Starfield is a marquee first party title for Microsoft. They own this.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Lets not forget motherfucking phantom dust 2. They couldve had something great.

Yes. And I remember Ken Lobb revealing that Phantom Dust on Xbox One would now be a fully remade 30 hour JRPG, then they ended up releasing a remaster of the OG Xbox game

 

[Papacheeks]

lol If Housemarque and Bluepoint were FIRST PARTY STUDIOS, Sony wouldnt have had to buy them. I dont know why this is so hard. It doesnt matter who funded what. We are talking about FIRST PARTY OUTPUT. It's the main reason why Dench didnt count Starfield even though 2 years after the Zenimax purchase, technically Starfield IS first party, but we are not counting it because we are talking about their first party output. Ninja Theory, 343, Obsidian, PlayGround Games, Coalition Games. Who cares who Sony acquired last year?

Read this with me.



Sony studios. Not Sony published games. Not Sony partner games. Not Sony funded games. Or moneyhats. Just Sony studios.

The funny thing is that I relented and even let you count them. The tally is literally 3-0. 3-1 by the time Starfield releases. And then you have a meltdown because I choose NOT to count games that havent even been announced? I mean we literally dont even know the name of these games. We have never seen them. Sony hasnt even shown a fucking CG trailer for them. Your source is rumors. And you think they will release them in the next 1.5 years? LMAO and I am the one living in an alternate reality?

The way you talk is hilarious. You make it sound like you brought receipts and have listed a bunch of next gen games Sony is releasing this year and before Spiderman. And all you had were rumors. Like come on. I dont mind rumors, but dont use them as a tool to win arguments and accuse people of living under a rock as if these are announcements we missed while we had our head in the sand.

Lastly, if Returnal, Ratchet and Demon Souls are the best you can do then thats not good enough for me. None of these games scream next gen. DS is literally the same exact game with a new coat of paint. Ratchet plays exactly like it always has. Returnal is excellent, but it could be a PS4 game and no one would notice. Expect better from everyone. Have higher standards. This isnt just about graphics. It's about standards set by Sony's own first party studios last gen. Standards they have failed to live up to.

P.S I trash Elden Rings, FH5, Metroid ... some of the highest reviewed games of all time as samey, and you only took issue with my trashing of sony games. You are so obvious with your bias, its kinda sad.

You are literally saying Returnal and Demon souls are not first party and they totally are.

Also we have literal A Sony bend thread thats about them working on a New IP. Yes its probably far away. But the projects from Naughty Dog specifically the Last of us collection is not far, neither is second project from Guerilla. You can literally look that up, unless they restarted that Project which I doubt, its on track for end of 2023-2024. Bluepoint is very far along on one of their projects.

But sure you do you. Still putting you on ignore because you are literally making your own shit up about what constitutes to be developed exclusive vs a game that was known in 2018 by Bethesda and had nothing to do with Microsoft at the time.

 

[mckmas8808]

But Starfield is still in development. It has not gone gold. Microsoft ABSOLUTELY deserves credit for Starfield, regardless as to how it turns out. Starfield is a marquee first party title for Microsoft. They own this.

So what if Starfield bombs and only gets a 70% on Opencritic?

 

[Papacheeks]

So what if Starfield bombs and only gets a 70% on Opencritic?

It wont.

Too much riding on this game for it not to do well. It has been in development for a long ass time.

 

[Klayzer]

You old Fuck, lol. Anything 939 is Sony First party which includes Jet Moto, MLB, Twisted Metal 2,3,4, 2xtreme.3xtreme, cool boarders, blasto, syphon filter series.

Sony had a lot. ANd then the flood gates opened in PS2.



It is a Industry issue, but I have to totally disagree with you. You would have to be on crack to say the bolded about Sony having a horrendous gen. Regardless of Sony not owning Housemarque at the time, they paid for development of Returnal its their game. Also Sony literally put out the same year they launched a new fucking console Ghost of tsushima, Last of us part 2, MLB the show all while also launching Astro, Miles Morales, Spiderman remastered, Demons Souls, sackboy's big adventure. Those studios pretty much were first party because sony paid for those games to be made. Then followed it with Ratchet, returnal, and now Horizon, GT7, and later this year God of war?

How the fuck can you say Sony's studios have been horrendous when they seem to be the most consistent in releasing quality games in a timely fashion regardless if they meet your " next gen" standards? They all make use of the hardware, regardless if they are on PS4.

Like the amount of games Sony has in the pipeline and what they have launched during a fucking pandemic should be commended. Where was Microsoft's launch titles in 2020? Where was there any fucking releases of note in 2020 Form Microsoft? How bout 2019? They had fucking Gears 5 and Forza then nothing until Gears Tactics.

Sony literally has released games for both PS4 and PS5 in the same fucking year. ANd those last two PS4 titles were bangers to end the gen on.

It's like you live in an alternate reality that only your perception of the industry is what you see? Even Nintendo as slow as they are is putting out games, I mean slower, but still every game they have put out has been quality hits.

Sony's pipeline in development is now the well oiled machine they wanted a long time ago. Now with how great their tools and API is, according to most developers its the easiest platform to get games up and running. Microsoft just recently this week finalized and released their Direct Storage for PC developers finally.

And its Microsoft who is way behind in development of software not Sony, or to an extent Nintendo. Its the rest of the industry thats full of bloat, and giant 1,000 employed studios like Ubisoft, 343 who cant put a complete game out.

 

[mckmas8808]

It wont.

Too much riding on this game for it not to do well. It has been in development for a long ass time.

You're probably right. So, what's the lowest you think Starfield will score? 80%?

 

[Papacheeks]

You're probably right. So, what's the lowest you think Starfield will score? 80%?

Yea, and thats at the very end of spectrum. When Bethesda gets out of their own way with old code, which this game has none of, they are a force to recon with. Starfield will be great. They wouldn't be pumping it up if they didn't think this game has the potential to do Skyrim numbers.

They know what they have.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yea, and thats at the very end of spectrum. When Bethesda gets out of their own way with old code, which this game has none of, they are a force to recon with. Starfield will be great. They wouldn't be pumping it up if they didn't think this game has the potential to do Skyrim numbers.

They know what they have.

Hold on.....Starfield has none of their old jank code? I didn't know this. Hmmmm......this could be a monster.

 

[Papacheeks]

Hold on.....Starfield has none of their old jank code? I didn't know this. Hmmmm......this could be a monster.

Yea this project has been brand new from the ground up. New code, no old fallout game code. After Fallout 4 they were working on new game engine. And not using anything connected to fallout or previous. Notice that they announced Elder scrolls and starfield the same E3 show? They are working on both together, using same engine.

Bethesda was caught off guard with trying to bring their code from POWER PC to x86. It was messy from what I read about it. ANd the bugs in fallout 4/76 show it. SO after fallout 4 they started creating a engine from scratch. Which will be their platform going forward.

 

[Dr Bass]

Yea, and thats at the very end of spectrum. When Bethesda gets out of their own way with old code, which this game has none of, they are a force to recon with. Starfield will be great. They wouldn't be pumping it up if they didn't think this game has the potential to do Skyrim numbers.

They know what they have.

It's an all new engine and all new code?

Just an FYI, new code doesn't mean better code. It often means "new bugs." Old code (unless it's just really bad) has been debugged, proven stable, works etc. Some of the biggest mistakes in the industry revolve around "starting fresh."

Things You Should Never Do, Part I

Netscape 6.0 is finally going into its first public beta. There never was a version 5.0. The last major release, version 4.0, was released almost three years ago. Three years is an awfully long tim…

www.joelonsoftware.com

Again, not universally true, for many various reasons, but just want to reiterate, new does not mean better, at all. And it can often mean worse because it's not battle hardened.

Also, I am not worried about the "bugginess" aspect or anything like that. I'm not "worried" whatsoever actually. I think the game will be cool. Just waiting to see it.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Yea this project has been brand new from the ground up. New code, no old fallout game code. After Fallout 4 they were working on new game engine. And not using anything connected to fallout or previous. Notice that they announced Elder scrolls and starfield the same E3 show? They are working on both together, using same engine.

Bethesda was caught off guard with trying to bring their code from POWER PC to x86. It was messy from what I read about it. ANd the bugs in fallout 4/76 show it. SO after fallout 4 they started creating a engine from scratch. Which will be their platform going forward.

It could be special, especially if the graphics are anywhere close to the trailer

 

[Hobbygaming]

This isnt a Microsoft problem. Nearly ALL AAA studios seem to be struggling to put out games. There is a reason why we have a total of ZERO next gen only games on Xbox and it's not just because MS first party studios failed. None of the third party studios are ready. Even Bethesda which used to make games every 3-4 years has now taken 7 years to make Starfield. And yes, I know Fallout 76 came out in 2018 but lets face it, the main team was working on Starfield.

Even Sony studios have had a horrendous gen. BP and Housemarque werent even Sony owned when they released their next gen games. Ratchet is pretty much the only next gen game released by Sony's internal studio and will be the only one until Spiderman comes out in late 2023.

Bioware is missing in action since 2019. It's been 3 years. Nothing. Suicide Squad has taken 7 years and will be delayed to next year. It looks last gen as fuck anyway. Then you have Kojima who is typically very productive but for some reason has nothing to show 2.5 years after shipping death stranding. Crystal Dynamics is only just starting pre-production on next gen Tomb Raider and now that will be delayed by years thanks to Perfect Dark. Naughty Dog is nowhere to be found. It's been almost 2 years since they shipped TLOU2 and nothing. Not even factions which is most likely last gen. They were very productive releasing 3 AAA games last gen. Even shipping TLOU2 within 3 years of shipping Lost Legacy.

This is an industry wide problem. It just looks worse for MS because they havent had the best track record with first party. I would love to blame Phil for making Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite Last gen, but Sony's entire lineup this year is cross gen. Every third party game is cross gen. Hell, I have no doubt that the next RE game, the next FF game, the next Star Wars Jedi Fallen order game, and the next AC game will all be cross gen. Nitnendo hasnt released a Zelda, Mario or Metroid game since 2017. Those are their only AAA franchises so they've basically had nothing for an AAA only gamer like myself.

No one knows how to make games anymore so they make the same thing over and over again. No offense to Horizon or Elden Rings, but my god, they both felt pretty much identical to their predecessors. Elden Rings especially. I was like I cant go through any Souls mode trauma. The game looks like a PS3 game. Ratchet felt like a PS3 game with CG quality graphics and some fancy loading gimmicks. Halo felt like Halo 1. The new Metroid is literally 2D. What is this 1995? Forza Horizon 5 felt like FH3. Im like what is different here?? A grappling hook? Mexico? GT7 finally added a single player mode thats been in the series since its inception and we are like OMG, such innovation!

Games have stagnated. Devs have stopped innovating. That isnt on Microsoft, Sony or Ubisoft. It's the devs. They need a kick up the ass, not nurturing.

It sounds like you're tired of gaming, maybe you should take a break

 

[3liteDragon]

But Starfield is still in development. It has not gone gold. Microsoft ABSOLUTELY deserves credit for Starfield, regardless as to how it turns out. Starfield is a marquee first party title for Microsoft. They own this.

Bethesda's the publisher of the title & most likely will be the publisher of ES6, meaning they have full creative oversight over their game like MS does with it's core first-party team, the ones that MS actually publishes games for. That's why I don't see them as a first-party team like I do with the Coalition, Initiative, Playground who XGS/MS actually has a direct relationship with & complete oversight of their games because they're the ones publishing it & they have the publishing rights to their IPs. So yea, I don't think they deserve any credit for just buying them out & taking the off-hands approach with them like they already do with their core first-party team just because Phil asked Todd to make it an Xbox console exclusive. Bethesda's the publisher & they deserve all the credit regardless of how this game turns out to be, would've been a different story if MS got rid of Bethesda Softworks as the publisher right after the acquisition went through & put BGS directly under XGS. But I'm sure they got assurances from MS about owning the publishing rights to their IPs post-acquisition & continuing to self-publish their own games like Bungie did with Sony.

Bethesda Will Run Semi-Independently Under Microsoft - IGN

Head of Xbox Phil Spencer has confirmed that Bethesda will continue to run semi-independently after the company's acquisition by Microsoft.

www.ign.com

Head of Xbox Phil Spencer has confirmed that Bethesda will continue to run semi-independently after the company's acquisition by Microsoft.

Speaking to CNET, Spencer made clear that, while Bethesda games will adopt some of Xbox's new practices - including launching into Xbox Game Pass and becoming playable through game streaming - the company will retain some of the autonomy that resulted into some of the biggest games of all time: "It is about the culture of those teams," Spencer explained. "They're not about becoming us."

This tallies with previous comments from Bethesda SVP of global marketing Pete Hines, who said, "We’re still working on the same games we were yesterday, made by the same studios we’ve worked with for years, and those games will be published by us." The implication here may be that, while Bethesda's 8 studios are now owned by Microsoft, they may not become a part of the formal Xbox Game Studios group (the listed publisher for Microsoft's other owned studios). Apart from a difference in development oversight, this could also have some effect on whether Bethesda games become Xbox exclusives - it may be that Bethesda is able to choose to continue releasing games across all platforms.

Whoever owns the publishing rights of the game has the final say on which platforms it goes to, Phil was able to make a deal here with Todd to make it an Xbox console exclusive & got him bring it to XGP day one in return for the acquisition & full support of MS. Not the case with Sony & Bungie who said they'll continue releasing their games on competing platforms, they're only able to make that decision because they have full publishing rights to the Destiny IP & whatever future IP they have in the works even if they're owned by Sony. I don't consider them a first-party studio like I do SMS, ND, Guerrilla if they're still self-publishing their own games.

2022 Game Publisher Rankings: #5: Bethesda Softworks

Previous year's rank: 16 Average Metascore for 2021 releases: 80.2 15 scored products (7 distinct titles): 87% good, 0% bad "Great" games: none Total points: 306.9 As you likely know, Bethesda's parent company ZeniMax Media was purchased by...

www.metacritic.com

As you likely know, Bethesda's parent company ZeniMax Media was purchased by Microsoft last year, but since Microsoft has pledged to maintain ZeniMax as a separate business, we are treating Bethesda as a separate publisher—for now. And as a separate publisher, Bethesda had a very good 2021, with only two of its 15 scored products failing to receive a positive critical reception. Bethesda's best games were the new IP Deathloop (developed by sister company Arkane Studios) and a remastered version of the classic Quake.

The year ahead could be another big one for Bethesda, as its lineup includes highly anticipated titles Starfield (due in November) and Ghostwire: Tokyo (arriving later this month as, ironically, a PlayStation console exclusive).

 

[R3claimer117]

Bethesda's the publisher of the title & most likely will be the publisher of ES6, meaning they have full creative oversight over their game like MS does with it's core first-party team, the ones that MS actually publishes games for. That's why I don't see them as a first-party team like I do with the Coalition, Initiative, Playground who XGS/MS actually has a direct relationship with & complete oversight of their games because they're the ones publishing it & they have the publishing rights to their IPs. So yea, I don't think they deserve any credit for just buying them out & taking the off-hands approach with them like they already do with their core first-party team just because Phil asked Todd to make it an Xbox console exclusive. Bethesda's the publisher & they deserve all the credit regardless of how this game turns out to be, would've been a different story if MS got rid of Bethesda Softworks as the publisher right after the acquisition went through & put BGS directly under XGS. But I'm sure they got assurances from MS about owning the publishing rights to their IPs post-acquisition & continuing to self-publish their own games like Bungie did with Sony.

Bethesda Will Run Semi-Independently Under Microsoft - IGN

Head of Xbox Phil Spencer has confirmed that Bethesda will continue to run semi-independently after the company's acquisition by Microsoft.

www.ign.com

Whoever owns the publishing rights of the game has the final say on which platforms it goes to, Phil was able to make a deal here with Todd to make it an Xbox console exclusive & got him bring it to XGP day one in return for the acquisition & full support of MS. Not the case with Sony & Bungie who said they'll continue releasing their games on competing platforms, they're only able to make that decision because they have full publishing rights to the Destiny IP & whatever future IP they have in the works even if they're owned by Sony. I don't consider them a first-party studio like I do SMS, ND, Guerrilla if they're still self-publishing their own games.

If you believe that bathesda after being owned in whole by Microsoft is making their decisions on where to publish their games you’re out of your mind. Did you even watch the round table they did after they closed the deal?

 

[3liteDragon]

If you believe that bathesda after being owned in whole by Microsoft is making their decisions on where to publish their games you’re out of your mind. Did you even watch the round table they did after they closed the deal?

Did you even read my post? If they're still self-publishing their own titles & got the assurance from MS that it would remain that way post-acquisition, then they have the final say on all this. MS don't have direct oversight over their games like they do with the core first-party studios they actually publish games for, it's the exact same case with Sony & Bungie. They have no say on where Bungie gets to publish their games because Bungie will still retain their rights to self-publish even after the deal goes through, Sony's not getting credit for Destiny all of a sudden & Bungie's future IPs if they're not publishing them.

 

[tmarmar]

I am convinced that the final result will be good.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

This post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about on so many levels.

Not only could The Initiative not attract enough people to the company (again, a Microsoft subsidiary), they lost most of the top talent they had hired over a short time span.

And of course this guy is now calling their setup a "match made in heaven."

I also like how you're talking about time spans of of 10-12 years, like that's an alternative acceptable time frame for anything of this nature. I would hope they would like to release a game sooner rather than perhaps 2 more console generations from now. How much cash can these studios burn in salaries and expenses before they are expected to release a product?

Seriously, are some of you absolutely crazy?

Take your fanboy cap off for a bit.

Recruiting in the middle of a pandemic with a highly competitive market like what they're in isn't easy. Their game is also, *gasp*, being made for a game engine Unreal 5, that only recently entered preview phase, and is still not ready for full production according to Epic. And presumably most of them, coming from where they came from, don't all have the requisite experience with unreal, at least not enough in all the right places. Sure there's Microsoft assistance for some of that, but they still need a team. They need time to grow, sometimes that takes time. Studios hire other teams all the time to assist them with projects. Were CD a first party studio, and not an external studio, it would look far less controversial, but I'm fine with that.

And where did I say 10-12 years was acceptable? I'm saying that because they partnered with CD they can have a game ready much sooner than that. You're so busy trolling you don't even bother read shit carefully lol. Did you think you were making some grand point? Salaries wouldn't have been too terrible, they only had like less than 70 people and weren't growing fast enough. I think Microsoft can manage.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Did you even read my post? If they're still self-publishing their own titles & got the assurance from MS that it would remain that way post-acquisition, then they have the final say on all this. MS don't have direct oversight over their games like they do with the core first-party studios they actually publish games for, it's the exact same case with Sony & Bungie. They have no say on where Bungie gets to publish their games because Bungie will still retain their rights to self-publish even after the deal goes through, Sony's not getting credit for Destiny all of a sudden & Bungie's future IPs if they're not publishing them.

Did you just skip over the part where Todd Howard and Pete Hines apologized to Playstation fans that they are sorry that their games are no longer going to Playstation for the big releases? Likely only specific MMO type stuff will ever see Playstation release again.

Phil Spencer made it clear. The deal was about bringing exclusives games to platforms where Game Pass exists. I don't see Playstation getting Game Pass anytime soon.

 

[Craig of War]

 

[Dr.brain64]

I figured.
CD made everyone unhappy at Ti.

PD in ten years... ugh.

 

[sol_bad]

I can't read 19 pages but have people been defending the production issues on the fact that it's a small development team?

Why did MS allow a small team to deal with a big AAA game to start with???

 

[Hobbygaming]

Why is Jez talking about TI?

But on a serious note, this studio had a ton of pressure with the whole 'AAAA' thing and being compared to Naughty Dog

I like the 1st group's idea of staffing up to a bigger studio instead of bringing in another AAA studio to co-develop

 

[kingfey]

Did you even read my post? If they're still self-publishing their own titles & got the assurance from MS that it would remain that way post-acquisition, then they have the final say on all this. MS don't have direct oversight over their games like they do with the core first-party studios they actually publish games for, it's the exact same case with Sony & Bungie. They have no say on where Bungie gets to publish their games because Bungie will still retain their rights to self-publish even after the deal goes through, Sony's not getting credit for Destiny all of a sudden & Bungie's future IPs if they're not publishing them.

Bethesda is self publishing, but the IPs still belong to MS. Unlike bungie, bethesda only focuses on xbox and PC.
Its like atlus, who is only releasing games on PS, but not on xbox. Even though, Sega owns atlus.

Bungie on other hand, has full control of their IPs. While Sony owns them, Bungie decided where those IP go. Bethesda doesnt have that choice, since MS owns bethesda parent company.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

And that all makes perfect fucking sense. Sounds to me like people in the first group were trying to have some glory type shit, make a big name for themselves as a new studio, them doing it all themselves and establish themselves as the next big thing or whatever they were thinking. Whereas the second group sounds like they were willing to put their egos aside and just acknowledge that they needed to use help and support studios to get up to speed and get their staffing situation solved sooner rather than later so they could get to working on a game.

Second group doesn't seem to care what people say about who will get the credit in the end, or will be seen as having the larger role, or whether this prevents them from being seen as the primary developer. They just want to make an ambitious game, and feel like Crystal Dynamics can help them achieve that faster. 2nd group were the ones who were thinking more rationally.

I don't know if I'm being harsh with the 1st group, but they could have just grown later on. What's the issue with bringing in a top tier studio like CD to follow the vision you guys had planned out for the game? Why not bring in CD, and in the process of doing your thing with CD slowly grow as time as the roles are needed? I don't get why having a top tier AAA studio ready to go was something that was so heavily frowned upon by the first group. It's nuts.