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[Melchiah]

The first year of new generations are never very good. Games will look better as time goes on.

The myth of no games on the first year still lives on.

Add to that the earlier games of the first year:
SSX
Tekken Tag Tournament
TimeSplitters
Shadow of Memories
Onimusha: Warlords
Red Faction
Twisted Metal: Black
Resident Evil: Code Veronica
Soul reaver 2


As for myself, having witnessed the three previous launches, I think this one is certainly on par with them. I've been both amazed and entertained by Killzone: Shadow Fall, Resogun, Tomb Raider, and Infamous: Second Son. Gameswise it beats the first four months of the last two launches hands down.

I have no idea what's supposed to be next gen gameplay, and what exactly did the previous launch games offer on that front, that the current ones don't. The way I remember it, the gameplay in 3rd person games was essentially the same on PS1 and PS2, and the same goes for 1st person games on PS2 and PS3. The new things were the added online element, bigger and more detailed environments, and of course better graphics.

I agree with this aspect...except for maybe Titanfall which is kinda of next gen gameplay but yea...for the most part, the games feel like last gen games with a makeover.

Well, the Unreal Tournament and Quake series did similar stuff (ie. fast-paced FPS with vertical movement) years ago.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

After the length of last gen, i personally expected a far bigger jump...

I expected all games to be running at 1080p 60fps for at least the first two years just simply because of brute force...

Personally, this gen is a .5 gen imo and hope it's due to awaiting gpus to get smaller to get better power to wattage to heat ratio at a smaller size...

That's not to say we won't see some very apparent improvements over last gen.

 

[Jay Sosa]

I think that once again some people don't quite understand that some of us simply aren't impressed by all that 1080p 60fps crap if it's the same shit underneath.

Fuck resolution and framerate if it's basically the same game I already played back in the early PS2 days.

 

[RaikuHebi]

The myth of no games on the first year still lives on.

Add to that the earlier games of the first year:
SSX
Tekken Tag Tournament
TimeSplitters
Shadow of Memories
Onimusha: Warlords
Red Faction
Twisted Metal: Black
Resident Evil: Code Veronica
Soul reaver 2


As for myself, having witnessed the three previous launches, I think this one is certainly on par with them. I've been both amazed and entertained by Killzone: Shadow Fall, Resogun, Tomb Raider, and Infamous: Second Son. Gameswise it beats the first four months of last two launches hands down.

I have no idea what's supposed to be next gen gameplay, and what exactly did the previous launch games offer on that front, that the current ones don't. The way I remember it, the gameplay in 3rd person games was essentially the same on PS1 and PS2, and the same goes for 1st person games on PS2 and PS3. The new things were the added online element, bigger and more detailed environments, and of course better graphics.




Well, the Unreal Tournament and Quake series did similar stuff (ie. fast-paced FPS with vertical movement) years ago.

Japanese release was March 2000.

 

[Auto-Reply]

Who needs new hardware when you're impressed by sub-HD at 25 fps.

I could easily apply that to any game that is under 60 fps and near 4k downsampling, because that's how i play all games on pc. I'm obviously impressed by GTAV for other reasons than it's framerate or iq.

 

[foxuzamaki]

You don't see a difference between this

and this?

And we're only 5 months into this gen. And the above is an open world game made by a 100ish-man team.

....huh, you know ive seen alot of screenshots of infamous: SS, and I do see the generational leap in those screenshots, but when you made the comparison here it really doesnt look like a big jump to me

 

[nkarafo]

It took a whole year for GoW on 360.

In previous generations we didn't have to wait for the new consoles to mature in order to justify the generation leap. Launch games already looked much better than late games of the previous gen consoles.

The fact that some people are waiting for the "next gen LOU" to justify the generation leap, proves OP's point.

I'm obviously impressed by GTAV for other reasons than it's framerate or iq.

For what is worth, i agree with you. This game impressed me more than anything so far. Mostly because of the level of detail and all these assets. And how it looks so busy, like a real city. And the lighting.

 

[IcyBlueStrawberry]

I think that once again some people don't quite understand that some of us simply aren't impressed by all that 1080p 60fps crap if it's the same shit underneath.

Fuck resolution and framerate if it's basically the same game I already played back in the early PS2 days.

Yep.

Literally the only difference between BF4 and a PS2 game is HD grafix.

 

[KJRS_1993]

I think that once again some people don't quite understand that some of us simply aren't impressed by all that 1080p 60fps crap if it's the same shit underneath.

Fuck resolution and framerate if it's basically the same game I already played back in the early PS2 days.

This is why Shadow Fall SP is almost unbearable to play for me personally. Next gen launch game made word-for-word using the "How to make an FPS in 2007" textbook.

 

[Toparaman]

Not necessarily that there wasn't much of a difference, but certainly that going from PS1 to PS2 was much less impressive than going from 2D to 3D. TBH I can't say that I browsed any forums in 2000 because I was 10 years old, but human beings don't really change.

Dunno about PS1 -> PS2, but N64 -> GC was huge. HUGE. Playing Luigi's Mansion and Melee in 2001 was like seeing the face of God. Graphics and audio were a huge leap, and even gameplay was a significant step above what could be done on N64. Going from the original SSB to Melee... good lord.

 

[zeopower6]

The myth of no games on the first year still lives on.

Did he say that? I thought he just said they'd look better.

 

[IcyBlueStrawberry]

In previous generation we didn't have to wait for the new consoles to mature in order to justify the generation leap. Launch games already looked much better than late games of their previous generation.

The fact that some people are waiting for the "next gen LOU" to justify the generation leap, proves OP's point.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=47110

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Melchiah]

Japanese release was March 2000.

The European launch was in November 2000, and I look at it from that perspective.


EDIT:

Did he say that? I thought he just said they'd look better.

I interpreted "The first year of new generations are never very good." part that way, but I might have been wrong.

 

[PdotMichael]

....huh, you know ive seen alot of screenshots of infamous: SS, and I do see the generational leap in those screenshots, but when you made the comparison here it really doesnt look like a big jump to me

Using screenshots is stupid anyway.

You need to see the game and all the particle and light effects in motion. After playing some PS4 games everything on the PS3 will get an artifical touch.

 

[Shiina]

Nothing impressive about this gen so far. Better graphics alone don't make for a better game.

 

[N30RYU]

This generation is last generation +AA +partlicles +reflections +1080p and in a few games +60fps

So I can see ppl that don't care about AA, particles or reflections that this gens is somewhat like the last gen.... but no, It isn't.

inFAMOUS SS is a sandbox game with the graphics of a last gen linear game like The Last Of Us... so let's wait and see what next gen linear games (like the order) will look like.




Shiina, graphics alone makes new generations, not better games.

 

[velociraptor]

So, I've had WiiU since day 1, PS4 since day 1 and I plan to get XB1 day 1 if Microsoft some day remember that Sweden exist.
Anyhow, I've played on an import XB1 and today I think I've seen the games that is said to really show off the generational leap on all platforms.

I finally played Second Son for the first time yesterday, which DF said was the best looking game on any platform in their technical article, and I thought I would finally come away really impressed.

But no, I was not impressed, like at all.

I get that games will get more impressive over time and Naughty Dog still haven't shown their next gen stuff which might be amazing, but so far this has easily been the most underwelming start of a new generation for as long as I can remember.

Games still look about the same, most games still run at 30fps and we basically still play the same exact games as before since nothing has happened on the gameplay front.

ZombiU had some novel ideas with the Gamepad screen which I really liked but WiiU sadly isn't delivering the visual leap I'm looking for when entering a new generation. Off TV Play at 60fps without lag is probably what I'm most impressed about so far, but it's on WiiU again. PS4 and XB1 has the power to impress, I think, but so far I'm just not impressed at all with the gameplay or performance there. Also, isn't it annoying that we see far more 60fps games on WiiU when it's supposed to be more like a last gen console technically?


Am I the only one with this feeling?

If SS doesn't impress you then I don't think anything will. It is by far the best looking open world game that has ever been released, period.

 

[Principate]

This generation is last generation +AA +partlicles +reflections +1080p and in a few games +60fps

So I can see ppl that don't care about AA, particles or reflections that this gens is somewhat like the last gen.... but no, It isn't.

inFAMOUS SS is a sandbox game with the graphics of a last gen linear game like The Last Of Us... so let's wait and see what next gen linear games (like the order) will look like.

Sure as hell is when those things have been on PC and available on last gen games for years. Its basically the exact same shit as a pc player, previous gens had a lot more variation.

 

[nkarafo]

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=47110

Rinse and repeat.

7th generation has the excuse of HD graphics.

 

[MrBud360]

Xbox 1.5 remember? Until Gears of Wars......

 

[Melchiah]

Nothing impressive about this gen so far. Better graphics alone don't make for a better game.

Of course not, but personally I've greatly enjoyed 5 of the games available now, and that's more than those 1-2 games I enjoyed on the last two launches. So, it just boils down to a matter of taste, as usual. There's objectively nothing wrong with the gameplay in the current batch of games.

 

[N30RYU]

Sure as hell is when those things have been on PC and available on last gen games for years. Its basically the exact same shit as a pc player, previous gens had a lot more variation.

I agree, this generation is last generation games on PC, if they weren't straight console ports.

But the games platforms still being consoles for me... a high PC doesn't let you play Sony, Nintendo or MS exclusivities... the day it turn that sony, nintendo an MS release theis IPs con PC, I'll become a PC gamer... but that won't happen... not in a near future...

 

[goomba]

Its by far the smallest discerable generational leap in console history imo

diminishing returns in action

 

[Caayn]

I don't really want to judge this entire generation based on the few games(non-cross-gen) we've got so far. However on a hardware level I'm anything but impressed with the new consoles, Sony and Microsoft both went the low- mid-end route and Nintendo tried to repeat the Wii strategy, the lack of basic features that we've grown accustomed to doesn't help either. Making this generation feel more like an quick extension of the previous one rather than an entirely new generation.

It's sad especially if you see how long the last generation lasted. This new generation could've been a major jump again, the hardware is there, but instead we've got what have now.

 

[nOoblet16]

How exactly was Gears 1, Halo 1 and GTA3 not Genre defining respectively? Imo they REDEFINED thier genre on Consoles, thus defining them, Thus many games in the genre taking from them/copying them/inspired by them.

MGS2 also came out years later. What I am trying to say here is that MGS1 was an example of a game that couldn't be done previously because it was something that was never seen before a heavily narrative driven stealth game where the narrative was done in real time and was essential to the gameplay. It pretty much invented the whole TPS stealth action genre.

And regarding Gears and Halo, yes that's what I am saying that they redefined the genre using existing mechanics and refined those mechanics, they didn't invent something new.

 

[Cosmozone]

Another guy who missed W101 and Lego City. But the OP seems pretty graphics centric so I don't know if he'd liked them.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

MGS2 also came out years later. What I am trying to say here is that MGS1 was an example of a game that couldn't be done previously because it was something that was never seen before a heavily narrative driven stealth game where the narrative was done in real time and was essential to the gameplay. It pretty much invented the whole TPS stealth action genre.

And regarding Gears and Halo, yes that's what I am saying that they redefined the, they didn't invent something new.

you don't have to invent something "new" to be innovative though so your point fails. Redefining is innovative too.

 

[level44]

Lets lock this up and open it in 6 years.

 

[KemoSabe]

So, I've had WiiU since day 1, PS4 since day 1 and I plan to get XB1 day 1 if Microsoft some day remember that Sweden exist.
Anyhow, I've played on an import XB1 and today I think I've seen the games that is said to really show off the generational leap on all platforms.

I finally played Second Son for the first time yesterday, which DF said was the best looking game on any platform in their technical article, and I thought I would finally come away really impressed.

But no, I was not impressed, like at all.

I get that games will get more impressive over time and Naughty Dog still haven't shown their next gen stuff which might be amazing, but so far this has easily been the most underwelming start of a new generation for as long as I can remember.

Games still look about the same, most games still run at 30fps and we basically still play the same exact games as before since nothing has happened on the gameplay front.

ZombiU had some novel ideas with the Gamepad screen which I really liked but WiiU sadly isn't delivering the visual leap I'm looking for when entering a new generation. Off TV Play at 60fps without lag is probably what I'm most impressed about so far, but it's on WiiU again. PS4 and XB1 has the power to impress, I think, but so far I'm just not impressed at all with the gameplay or performance there. Also, isn't it annoying that we see far more 60fps games on WiiU when it's supposed to be more like a last gen console technically?


Am I the only one with this feeling?

you are not alone...

this generational change was the weakest in history.

i still remember the transition from nes to snes to n64 and every generation was substantially better then the last one.
switching from snes to n64 was like playing in a whole new world.
just look at joshis island and then at the first n64 launch game, mario 64.
now that justifies a new console generation
the same with master system to genesis to saturn.

now, the change from 360 to xbone is way to small.
the games just looks sharper and they have a shitload of particle effects added ( hi second son and killer instinct).
thats cleary not worth ~500€ to me.

i really hope the next wave of games will be better or i will switch to pc gaming...

 

[Moosichu]

In previous generations we didn't have to wait for the new consoles to mature in order to justify the generation leap. Launch games already looked much better than late games of the previous gen consoles.

The fact that some people are waiting for the "next gen LOU" to justify the generation leap, proves OP's point.



For what is worth, i agree with you. This game impressed me more than anything so far. Mostly because of the level of detail and all these assets. And how it looks so busy, like a real city. And the lighting.

Early gen PS3 and 360 games didnt justify the leap though. A lot of then hold up worse than late PS2 games. (Once the PS2 games are rendered at the same resolution yhough)

 

[travisbickle]

In previous generations we didn't have to wait for the new consoles to mature in order to justify the generation leap. Launch games already looked much better than late games of the previous gen consoles.

7th generation has the excuse of HD graphics.

Moving the goalposts in record time there. That's 10 minutes between your initial post to responding to IcyBlueStrawberry.

 

[KAL2006]

Xbox One sales prove people are willing to pay $500 for a console, and £400 in the UK. Both systems should have been that price and without Kinect. I wish both Sony and MS put more power in the systems as well as take a hit on profit on consoles as they make money back on online fees and games sales. It seems last gen was the last time both companies would be willing to take a hit on profit.

 

[nkarafo]

Moving the goalposts in record time there. That's 10 minutes between your initial post to responding to IcyBlueStrawberry.

In my initial post i was referring mostly to 8bit to 16 bit and PS1 to PS2 differences. I already explained in a previous post that the 7th generation didn't look all that better than the 6th but at least it had the excuse of HD graphics. That alone was one big difference.

 

[Fahrenheit]

Past few years i've been playing on PC and stuff like Infamous just edges out Sleeping Dogs and that's a few years old game at this point. Little let down but whatevers.

 

[qizah]

Nope I feel exactly the same. Games only look marginally better than last gen and apart from the small visual change everything has been exactly the same as the last. It's still early but nothing has made me excited so far.

 

[Feindflug]

You might have cancer, OP.

What is this crap?

That's some serious revisionist history you're smoking there. The jump from 480p to 720p, on its own, is much smaller than 720p to 1080p (is GTA5 even native 720?) and that's ignoring the enormous jump in graphical quality and effects from GTA5 to Infamous.

Do you seriously believe that the jump from SD to HD is smaller than 720p to 1080p? hell most games in the PS2 days were sub-480p, the IQ improvement even in sub-HD games like PGR3 was enormous.

Xbox 1.5 remember? Until Gears of Wars......

And that's BS...Kameo, PGR3, Dead Rising, Oblivion and Advanced Warfighter destroyed everything visually from the previous gen.

Also WTF to the guy who said that Oblivion didn't look much better than Twilight Princess, some guys are really trying too hard to downplay the differences between PS360 and PS2/Xbox/GC.

 

[GameAddict411]

my first impressions of the PS3 & X360 were worse than the PS4, so i have faith that this gen will deliver.

 

[nOoblet16]

you don't have to invent something "new" to be innovative though so your point fails. Redefining is innovative too.

But that's not what people want, we are drifting here. Point was that people expect gameplay innovations with the magnitude of something like reinventing the wheel, when in fact there are very few games that have actually managed to do that in the past decade or so. If we are talking about redefining then that's something we see within a generation itself...multiple times !! (GTA5, Dark Souls, COD4 etc)

 

[Melchiah]

MGS2 also came out years later. What I am trying to say here is that MGS1 was an example of a game that couldn't be done previously because it was something that was never seen before a heavily narrative driven stealth game where the narrative was done in real time and was essential to the gameplay. It pretty much invented the whole TPS stealth action genre.

And regarding Gears and Halo, yes that's what I am saying that they redefined the genre using existing mechanics and refined those mechanics, they didn't invent something new.

It was released a little over a year from the launch; PS2 NA launch was in Oct 2000, EU launch in Nov 2000, and MGS2 was released in Nov 2001 in NA, March 2002 in EU. About twenty months after JP launch though.

 

[Coolwhip]

The last time we had real next gen gameplay was with Mario 64 in my opinion. Maybe VR can be the next time we have it.

 

[KAL2006]

People downplaying last gen and saying its the same have no idea. 360 was ahead of its time and wasn't made out of medium spec PC parts. The dashboard was revolutionary with universal friends lists and achievements, matchmaking in every game and a huge number of downloadable demos and videos, and MS made XBLA popular and a way to make smaller digital games with more innovation be released in consoles. HD graphics for the first time, Dead Rising was insane with the amount of zombies in one area. Having a game like Oblivion available on consoles without many cuts was great.

 

[espher]

As someone who is more "wowed" by interesting game design and mechanics than visuals, there's little for me to get excited about at the start of this generation, though I'm sure we'll see some stuff down the line that satisfies my tastes. I'm looking at my libraries from last gen and they are mostly titles that did something 'new' and some sequels/expansions, so I guess I'm waiting for 'that' to hit.

tbqh Kinect Fitness was the most exciting launch 'title' for me, but not enough to convince me to drop $500+.

The European launch was in November 2000, and I look at it from that perspective.

Well, with that consideration, Ace Combat 04 didn't drop til February 2002, Ico and MGS 2 didn't drop until March 2002, and FFX didn't drop until May 2002. Several of the others came out in EU in December 2001 so they'd technically be just outside of the first year. I think Silent Hill and GTA fell within the first year of the EU release.

The PS2 did have a solid Y2 imo.

 

[nOoblet16]

It was released a little over a year from the launch; PS2 NA launch was in Oct 2000, EU launch in Nov 2000, and MGS2 was released in Nov 2001 in NA, March 2002 in EU. About twenty months after JP launch though.

I wasn't talking about console launch, I was talking about the gap between MGS1 and MGS2. Since someone bought up how MGS2 did everything better than MGS1.

 

[Melchiah]

The last time we had real next gen gameplay was with Mario 64 in my opinion. Maybe VR can be the next time we have it.

I agree with that, as the move from the 16-bit sidescrollers to 3D environments was a huge leap at the time. What Mario 64 was to you, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Silent Hill and Soul Reaver were to me. I don't think we're going to get that kind of a leap in gameplay anytime soon, unless VR offers something substantially different from what we have experienced before.


EDIT:

I wasn't talking about console launch, I was talking about the gap between MGS1 and MGS2. Since someone bought up how MGS2 did everything better than MGS1.

Oops, my mistake. =)

 

[CmdBash]

nothing wrong, there's absolutely nothing revolutionary so far about the new generation of consoles. Though there is a possibility of open world games being the next big thing for most games as the hardware allows more leeway to creating a world that is alive and detailed.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

But that's not what people want, we are drifting here. Point was that people expect gameplay innovations with the magnitude of something like reinventing the wheel, when in fact there are very few games that have actually managed to do that in the past decade or so. If we are talking about redefining then that's something we see within a generation itself...multiple times !! (GTA5, Dark Souls, COD4 etc)

no, people do want gameplay innovations like that of what Gears, Halo, GTA3, Super Mario 64 did for their generations which is why people have brought up "Gears" specifically in this thread, and why other comments in this thread suggest so as well... and the difference with your latter examples is they happened mid-late gen. We are talking about Innovation Early in the system's life. big difference.

 

[Spieler Eins]

HD was the last big generational leap in graphics.

 

[Appollowexx]

The jump is just as big as last time.

Going from 720p (sometimes less) on PS3 to 1080p in almost every game available with much higher AA, higher quality texture work, effects such as Bokeh DOF, volumetrics and tessellation. These new consoles have impressed me more than the 360/ps3 did at the time. Only Kameo really impressed me at launch and it wasn't until a full year later when GOW launched that I felt I'd seen a massive leap.

So far Killzone, Battlefield 4 and Infamous have all stunned me by how much of a leap over last generation they appear visually. The Order looks like the first time I'll be truly blown away in a similar fashion to Gears and guess what, that's roughly a year after launch.

 

[sphinx]

for me, the blame is entirely on the software/dev/pub side and not on the side of the hardware.

ps4/xb1/WiiU are undeniably a substantial leap compared to their predecessors.

the industry at large has not been able to make them any justice. when we got the PS360WII the industry immediately forgot the prior generation and went balls out with excitement and money into producing great, novel games, be it on Wii or the HD twins.

right now, they either do smartphone games or they just stay idle for months before they decide where to invest resources.

games suck this generation not the hardware.

 

[Astral/H3X]

Do you seriously believe that the jump from SD to HD is smaller than 720p to 1080p? hell most games in the PS2 days were sub-480p, the IQ improvement even in sub-HD games like PGR3 was enormous.

As a person who played Gamecube a lot, I didn't even know what sub native rendering was until the 7th gen hit.