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So how does Splatoon keep its 60fps?
- Thread starter foxuzamaki
- Start date
This game reminds me of old school Sega glory. Should a successor to Dreamcast have existed, it would certainly have hosted such a game.
Thinking about it, Wii U is the closest thing to the Dreamcast I can think of, with its colorful 60fps games library focused on multiplayer. That's why I love it
Thinking about it, Wii U is the closest thing to the Dreamcast I can think of, with its colorful 60fps games library focused on multiplayer. That's why I love it
nkarafo
Member
Its funny how some people can't accept that EAD are just better developers or at least they care more for their games having perfect code. Its not just "art style" and "non demanding games". And if you think that any developer could do this on any system then check out other similar cartoony games with non realistic graphics like Sonic Generations and Racing Transformed. Check out that glorious 30fps, lol. Well, you have Mario Kart 8 to compare with that if you want.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
By that logic all third person games aren't technically impressive because the core of their camera system was basically running on the Nintendo 64.
c'mon
But.. it does look very simple. I can't see anything in there that would be all that demanding that others couldn't get it to 60 either.
I'm not sure what to say, Nintendo often focus on the right things when it comes to the technical aspect of their games, and I appreciate that. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're so far above and beyond the rest of the industry - I look at and play their games and at no point do I ever wonder how they got it to 60, it's usually pretty obvious how.
the correct answer, no matter how many shitty justifications have been given here
But that's actually how it works. People hardly ever mention being impressed by a game's camera and that's because we've have the core of those already working in the 90s. Your error is in extending judgement about the camera to judgement about the whole game.
nkarafo
Member
I get what you are saying but Mario Kart 8 (for example) is a really an impressive game and i doubt anyone could do the same at 60fps on a similarly powerful console. It reminded me about Metroid Prime and how awesome that game looked at 60fps. Having said that, Sega have proved in the past that they can do similar things. F-Zero GX anyone? That's why i was so disappointed with the recent Sonic racing games. Sega could do better than that.
Really? :/
nkarafo
Member
Is Sonic All Stars racing transformed so much better looking that it had to be at 30fps? I thought Mario Kart 8 had better graphics and more attention to detail, despite running at 60fps.
Yeah pretty much my only issue with Nintendo games recently it kinda stands out.
Anyway, yes the game has simplistic art and textures, but this would still be pretty demanding if the code was sloppy. The real secret sauce at Nintendo is that, at least to me, they are pretty much unrivaled in optimization, even compared to other first parties.
Yup, things are shitty because you don't agree with them.
I absolutely prefer 60 FPS to 30 where available, but this comparison goes back to what people are saying about developers targets. Both MK8 and SASR are aesthetically pleasing but aren't technically demanding. However, one of these games feature a technically demanding fluid system with physical properties needed for it's gameplay.
You were on point about the textutres but offbase on the AI.
Multiplayer can get throttled quite a bit by the amount of explosions going off in an area.
Splatoon has a ton of explosions but the liquid effect doesn't require the insane amount of particle physics seen in fire, smoke and sparks.
In fact because of this reduced demand I hope Nintendo is the first to make destructible terrain mainstream again.
Fuck developers prioritizing graphics which I'll just turn down for less gameplay possibilities.
Really. I don't think you understand how extremely difficult it is to have a locked 60fps at all times. How many last gen games had a locked 60fps at 720p? A lot of games had to resort to dynamic resolutions and/or unlocked framerate.
Revolutionary
Member
Because it's not visually impressive? It's not using real time fluid dynamics like OP implies, and the game has little to no antialiasing (like most Nintendo games).
And how many of those games had antialiasing?
It is using real time fluid dynamics. The paint splattering differently every time indicates as much.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
The game really doesn't look that demanding. Small areas, not very much detail, low poli count.
I wouldn't be surprised if the game runs at 1080p, too.
I wouldn't be surprised if the game runs at 1080p, too.
Fact is the others would make Call of Duty number 43, trying to get hyper-realistic graphics even though they're on inferior hardware, because that's what the players want(?!), and by putting all the processing power in the graphics they'd fail to make it 60 fps.
Nobody would buy it because it's the same crap as always, just with worse graphics and framerate than on PS4/PC/X1, the devs would then proceed to blame the Wii U because it's an underpowered piece of shit and state they wouldn't release any more games for it.
That's how dumb they are.
So it is kind of incredible that EAD managed 60 fps without the game looking like a turd, which is what would have happened if it was an EA/Ubisoft/Activision game. Instead they managed to strike an amazing balance between (innovative!) gameplay and graphics, choosing a very charming but simple artstyle.
As I said - this is more a matter of focus than technical ability. You can see they eschew much of the flashy graphical things that many developers go for in their games. It's a game with a very limited amount of effects going off at once, with basic texturing, very basic lighting, rather slow gameplay speed, there's generally very little going on other than the shooting of the paint. If a game like CoD, even at 600p, can do all what it does in any one scene at 60fps, it'd be a joke if this wasn't running at 60fps even at 720p.
The game looks decent, but I really can't see what could possibly make this a difficult game to run at 60fps for most competent developers. I'm not saying Nintendo aren't good developers, but this hyperbole of "Nintendo magic" and "No other dev could do this!" is so, so weird.
Revolutionary
Member
OP says that it stacks and gets thicker, as if it's always real time. It's not. That would most certainly kill performance, on any console.
Übermatik;116647691 said:
And yet there is. No full AA solution =/= no AA at all. There is AA in Splatoon.
Also, at first Nintendo games are not really demanding visually so it's not surprising they run at 60fps. When after a few examples it is proven that some of them are more visually demanding than games by other devs that still don't manage 60fps we have a stream of posts about AA.
Keep moving those goalposts guys.
You're just not seeing the magic, man.
NSMBU, NSLU, DKCTF and SM3DW all had AA. MK8 didn't.
It's posts like these that really turn me off of Nintendo threads in general here on GAF. It's like you don't want to see actual discussion on a message board and just want "BASED NINTENDO MAGIC" posted over and over again. Anyone who dares to actually analyze things in a thread that's asking for analysis must be on something or trying to make a justification to downplay almighty Nintendo.
I realize that every fan base here has this problem to some degree (PC master race, Naughty Gods, etc.), but it seems to be worst among Nintendo discussion by a long shot.
That's correct but that's a matter of persistence. It would be the same as arguing the particle effects for fire and smoke in other games aren't real time dynamic systems because the fire doesn't spread or the smoke doesn't leave ash on the surfaces.
Not enough people got this joke.
At 60fps and 720p? Show meh.
I said 60fps locked at 720p, COD isn't and never was on last gen consoles and fares even worse on the PS3 going as low as 880x600.
It is certainly a technical ability to have a locked 60fps framerate. Hell, it's a technical feat to have a locked 30fps last gen.
Revolutionary
Member
I never do, apparently. Lol
2.5D games are hardly the most demanding games out there, but alright.
As for SM3DW, it uses a very weak antialiasing solution.
Regardless, my point is that Nintendo doesn't mind sacrificing antialiasing in order to get a smooth framerate in full 3D games. Not sure other devs are willing to make that sacrifice anymore (last Sony game with no antialiasing I remember was Infamous 1).
Fair enough. I was just trying to address the OP's claim, because it seems a lot of people are latching onto it.
MrCookiepants
Member
It's a pretty average looking game, so that probably helps.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Because its just a ballin ass game. Deal with it OP
Any game can hit 60fps at 720 FPS if you make it look super basic.
Shit ain't no achievement, it's just aiming low.
Actually no. Sunshine could technically do the stacking already. It's just a lot simpler than people think it is. For one, you only keep track of current color and thickness per texel. You don't need the actual layers as you cannot effectively remove paint. Also it's not really fluid dynamics, once the paint is in it is static, ie you won't see anything mixing or dripping.
Haha, how backwards can you have it? Putting gameplay first is aming low now? Ugh.
We are talking about graphics, but keep moving the goalposts.
It's aiming high actually.
No, graphics and gameplay are interrelated as both depend on framerate. Aiming for 60fps because you want responsive gameplay isn't aiming low no matter how you put it.
BruiserBear
Banned
Nothing about Splatoon strikes me as graphically demanding.
By sacrificing IQ, in that regard you aim low to hit the high FPS ..... especially with limited hardware.
Have whatever perspective you want on it, I have mine.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Splatoon seems pretty graphically amazing to me. There's lot of detail on lots of things.
But then again the PlayStation still seems next generation to me. And I care a lot more about aesthetics than graphics.
But then again the PlayStation still seems next generation to me. And I care a lot more about aesthetics than graphics.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
That does seem really backwards. If 60 fps is aiming low is 30 fps aiming super low?
It's not a "technical feat" to get 30fps or 60fps, because it depends entirely on what is being rendered. Give me a PS3 devkit and I'll have a triangle running on screen at 4K120fps. In fact, I believe Okami ran at 4K30fps (and then downsampled) on the PS3. It depends entirely on what you're doing with the power.
It's all about prioritisation of resources. Nintendo prioritised 60fps for this game and it shows in its rather basic presentation. It's not difficult to run a game at 30fps or 60fps on last generation consoles if you aim for that as the priority. The problem is many developers don't care enough about framerate and we do get games that dip below 30 far too much, and that's why Nintendo is one of the developers I appreciate for this - they aim for 60fps and try and keep as close to that as possible, sacrificing other things first. But it's not magic.