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[Hoho for breakfast]

The more I think about this the more mad I get about it. It's just as some others have said. Instead of finding randoms in game you're forced to do it manually outside the game. What fun.

I can't wait to see just how challenging these raids are that randoms just couldn't do it.

 

[Two Words]

But why risk 2 hours of your time with strangers? It seems this content will
require a lot of coordination. You only need 1 or 2 morons to ruin it all.

Some people can have fun in video games even when they fail.

 

[PFD]

When I heard raid i thought it would be a lot more than 6 players....I thought they would be around 12-16

Also what's wrong with just having the option? Basically you can only do raids when you somehow manage to get all 6 people on at once which isn't the easiest thing to do these days with everyone having different schedules.

This is going to be the most unsocial, social game ever created.

Back in the day, we had to find 40 well-equipped people to raid in WoW, and there was no matchmaking with strangers. 6 people is nothing

 

[ChosenPredator]

The more I think about this the more mad I get about it. It's just as some others have said. Instead of finding randoms in game you're forced to do it manually outside the game. What fun.

I can't wait to see just how challenging these raids are that randoms just couldn't do it.

it's going to be like back in the day where people are constantly looking for people to play with in the game spamming like no tomorrow, I'm not sure why it doesn't give you the option to like certain people you go on strike missions with and co-exist perfectly well with into your raid missions..perhaps you can make alot of good friends that way during those missions with randoms....I just don't like the feeling of excluding a huge amount of players like that unless you go all out searching for it.

 

[ultron87]

Back in the day, we had to find 40 well-equipped people to raid in WoW, and there was no matchmaking with strangers. 6 people is nothing

WoW is filled with systems and mechanics designed to promote the formation of groups from groups of individual players. Destiny has none of that stuff currently from what we can see. It doesn't even have stuff for grouping up with your clan (that you have to join outside the game). This is the main reason I find this decision pretty disappointing. If it was possible to make groups in the game in some other way it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem.

 

[Atomski]

I fail to see why people are saying "good" to this..

Edit: Its just strange how people are praising not having options.

 

[NullPointer]

The unique look of the items and the status symbol that represents that you got it doing "X" activity.

People will know the "Gun of WTFPWNZORZ" came from the Raid while the "Gun of WTFBBQSAUCE" came from PvP. They'll be immediately recognizable at a glance as well. That's also why when you look at the Purple Tier gear that the vendors have.. they not only look different by design but also have color schemes unique to each vendor. So people will know how you got what you got, at a glance.

Interesting, thanks.

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

I swear if neogaf didn't exist I would be panicking right now.

 

[Sevyne]

Back in the day, we had to find 40 well-equipped people to raid in WoW, and there was no matchmaking with strangers. 6 people is nothing

Yeah, too bad all of the tools you need to organize and prepare a team for a raid aren't even present in this game. If they were, then I think a lot less people would be so upset of over the lack of matchmaking.

 

[Wickwire]

awesome, im glad everyone I know is playing on different consoles...

 

[likedamaster]

This game gets worse and worse the more I hear about it.

 

[Kilrathi]

Back in the day, we had to find 40 well-equipped people to raid in WoW, and there was no matchmaking with strangers. 6 people is nothing

Everquest had 72 man raiding and it was all contested in the early days

 

[LiK]

Wario gonna be my best mate

 

[Karl Hawk]

This game gets worse and worse the more I hear about it.

For you, maybe.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

The video sounded good. Looks like their taking post game content seriously. Hopefully the expansions are actually worth the price.

 

[EDarkness]

They'll cave in eventually. Convenience always wins. I applaud the effort though. Raiding through LFR with randomly chosen players in WoW is the most hollow, unfulfilling experience in the game.

Speak for yourself. I've had some frustrating experiences in LFR, but also met some nice people there, too. I've been in regular raid groups with planned groups of people that are far worse than anything in LFR. People are people and it really doesn't matter the forum they're in as to whether their "good" or "bad". The attitude that it's "crap" is really what makes it "crap".

Being able to see content is (and should) be the most important thing to both players and developers.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Some people can have fun in video games even when they fail.

I would argue more don't have fun when they fail. And in this business majority rules.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Or how about being able to, you know, COMMUNICATE in the city so I can find people for a fire team.

That'd be cool.

Sometimes I feel like Devs should hire someone with common sense.

 

[Authority]

I fail to see why people are saying "good" to this..

Atom the thing with newer "MMOs" is that there is a trend of soloplay and endgame with raiding. Now combine that with i.e Duty Finder (FFXIV) and I will tell you this - Random pugs in this game are gold comedy. Because generally speaking the majority of content(s) is being catered to the lowest denominator, the end game will always seem superhard and thus pugs will always be bad pugs.

So for some or half it will be a blessing to avoid the shitfest of drama with randoms. Think of it this way - The typical difficulty is broken like this,

70% is easy
25% is easy-to-medium
5% is hard to extremely hard

So when the "random" reaches end game content he is shocked and neither prepared. It is a new world to him as all this time he has been playing a different game.

 

[liquidrage]

But why risk 2 hours of your time with strangers? It seems this content will
require a lot of coordination. You only need 1 or 2 morons to ruin it all.

I have a few ways to justify this.

First, using gear score is a much better way to get a like-minded group then "he's my boy from the dorms". But in the current scenario, the latter will get to try, fail, try again, and maybe eventually get it. Whereas the former is pretty much shut out.

Next, where does the coordination come from? Other games? Are the Mercs playing this one? Corp por! I mean, I was in top raiding guild at release in WoW. First Onyxia kill on the server (not the world). Almost none of us knew each other before the game. We found each other on the server.

I don't disregard your point about the need for coordination. I'm just saying we should find like minded people with similar ability in Destiny. Not in previous games, a dorm room, or reddit. I'm sure there's plenty of people capable of progressing through the content that will be shut out if the social aspect of the game stays as is.

 

[KrM DeLorean]

I don't understand this contradictory statement.

>You have a limited time to play, yet you want to play a 2-3 hour game mode
>You have a "lack of people who can coordinate 2-3 hours of their time", yet you are on GAF which will have hundreds of players available at all times to play
>You have no problem wasting your time failing a raid, yet you don't want to spend any time finding a group more likely to succeed in the limited amount of time you have to play

I will be the first to yell at Bungie's dumb decisions (and this is by no means a perfect system), but this "sentiment" is much dumber. They may as well water-down the Raids because people don't have enough time to learn how to play the game.

There have already been complaints about random players in a 15-30 minute Strike mode quitting, going AFK, or otherwise dying constantly. I do not look forward to the ones about Raids.

logic bomb.

kaboom

 

[ZangBa]

So they basically opted for an archaic method of grouping. All this manages to accomplish is forcing people to add randoms to their friend list and whatever other hurdles to get a raid going. There is no reason not to offer the choice of random grouping. They should have focused on improving the social aspects of the game if anything.

I wouldn't really compare this to 40-man WoW raids considering how well that game was structured around playing in groups, and it's only improved since then. Bungie doesn't really have an excuse for a game releasing in 2014.

 

[likedamaster]

For you, maybe.

Already preordered on PSN, so I'm definitely playing it, just sucks we keep getting more & more bad news on the game. Kinda starting to deflate my excitement a little.

 

[Eusis]

For you, maybe.

It's mainly just the anti social angle with communication and whatnot dragging this down in my eyes. I've said before it's kind of surreal that they want to make a MMO-esque shooter that requires being online all the time and meeting random people as you play, but then they muzzle all communication and do stuff like this. It's not like Demon's Souls or Dark Souls that's more an SP game where you can pull in complete strangers to help you out (or wreck their game), this is something built explicitely around building groups with the Clan/Group pages and especially this.

 

[Vire]

It's all good, Destiny GAF are my bros.

 

[David___]

Someone mind telling me the difference between barley getting anywhere in the Raid vs not doing the Raid at all?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

At my age, I'm lucky if I can find one person locally to join in a video game with me. I love the idea of what they are doing, but it isn't likely a viable game mode for someone like me.

 

[Karl Hawk]

It's mainly just the anti social angle with communication and whatnot dragging this down in my eyes. I've said before it's kind of surreal that they want to make a MMO-esque shooter that requires being online all the time and meeting random people as you play, but then they muzzle all communication and do stuff like this. It's not like Demon's Souls or Dark Souls that's more an SP game where you can pull in complete strangers to help you out (or wreck their game), this is something built explicitely around building groups with the Clan/Group pages and especially this.

I agree. It wouldn't hurt adding options for proximity voice chat with randoms, either in Tower and PvP. Or even an option for an in-game clan.

 

[Pimpwerx]

A lot of people don't like this. I don't like it, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. But I prefer the random pick up and play approach the rest of pve embraces. Allow proximity chat and fire team chat. That could allow randoms to communicate. PEACE.

 

[BokehKing]

Yeah, too bad all of the tools you need to organize and prepare a team for a raid aren't even present in this game. If they were, then I think a lot less people would be so upset of over the lack of matchmaking.

All we, the people discussing this very topic, is this forum and the Bungie app where we have our own forums

 

[EDarkness]

It's mainly just the anti social angle with communication and whatnot dragging this down in my eyes. I've said before it's kind of surreal that they want to make a MMO-esque shooter that requires being online all the time and meeting random people as you play, but then they muzzle all communication and do stuff like this. It's not like Demon's Souls or Dark Souls that's more an SP game where you can pull in complete strangers to help you out (or wreck their game), this is something built explicitely around building groups with the Clan/Group pages and especially this.

I agree. I doubt I can get 5 friends to buy this game on the same platform, which would mean I'm stuck talking to players in the game to form groups. However, not being able to do so in the game, means I'll have to find groups outside of the game which is crazy.

 

[pieatorium]

It's mainly just the anti social angle with communication and whatnot dragging this down in my eyes. I've said before it's kind of surreal that they want to make a MMO-esque shooter that requires being online all the time and meeting random people as you play, but then they muzzle all communication and do stuff like this. It's not like Demon's Souls or Dark Souls that's more an SP game where you can pull in complete strangers to help you out (or wreck their game), this is something built explicitely around building groups with the Clan/Group pages and especially this.

I 100% agree, should be able to talk to everyone in your tower and randoms you meet while questing within a certain distance around you. At least have the option to have public broadcasting

 

[BokehKing]

At my age, I'm lucky if I can find one person locally to join in a video game with me. I love the idea of what they are doing, but it isn't likely a viable game mode for someone like me.

You don't want to play with us? I don't get it? . We are nice and most of us don't have criminal records or anything

 

[Phlebas]

At my age, I'm lucky if I can find one person locally to join in a video game with me. I love the idea of what they are doing, but it isn't likely a viable game mode for someone like me.

If you're on PS4, I can be your bro.


Edit:

You don't want to play with us? I don't get it? . We are nice and most of us don't have criminal records or anything

.

 

[BokehKing]

I 100% agree, should be able to talk to everyone in your tower and randoms you meet while questing within a certain distance around you. At least have the option to have public broadcasting

I rather a chat room then listening to 20 something people talking at once and hearing people play music/be rude/turn into a call of duty lobby

 

[Sevyne]

All we, the people discussing this very topic, is this forum and the Bungie app where we have our own forums

Yes, but the game itself has nothing. Everything is outside of the game (forums,apps, etc), and it really shouldn't be. The outside resources should always be supplemental , not the only way to communicate.

 

[pieatorium]

I rather a chat room then listening to 20 something people talking at once and hearing people play music/be rude/turn into a call of duty lobby

go into a menu and mute the person being an ass, this isnt a new concept

 

[NullPointer]

I don't understand this contradictory statement.

>You have a limited time to play, yet you want to play a 2-3 hour game mode
>You have a "lack of people who can coordinate 2-3 hours of their time", yet you are on GAF which will have hundreds of players available at all times to play
>You have no problem wasting your time failing a raid, yet you don't want to spend any time finding a group more likely to succeed in the limited amount of time you have to play

I can answer from my perspective:

> The organizing and wait times involved to play a 2-3 hour game mode is additional overhead on top of that 2-3 hours of playtime. From my MMO experience, it can take a good while to get everybody together and ready to go, and that was among people I knew.

> Looking for players to group up with among the pool of GAF isn't much different than matchmaking except the pool of players is much larger in matchmaking, the entire process is automated, and underlying metrics can filter that matchmaking by connection quality, skill level, or quit rate. I also don't know the difference between a random on GAF and a random in matchmaking.

> Playing and failing is still playing. Doing logistics to put a group of six players together is not, and unnecessary in 2014 when matchmaking is available on all platforms.

It isn't even about having six friends, or having six friends who have Destiny. Its about having six friends that are max level, online at the same time, want to do a raid, and can set aside a few hours to try it. That puts you into "join a clan" territory, and anybody who is not used to the mindset behind MMO raiding and the gear hunt in end-game is in for a nasty surprise.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Why the hell anyone would think this is a good idea?

It's going to be bloody difficult to arrange 5 or 6 people going in together considering that: I live in a different timezone compared to most of you folks (+7 GMT), it is a hassle to arrange time and schedule where a group of people can play together, and it necessitates me deleting and adding friends from and to my FL if I want to play with someone new.

It's making things difficult for no reason whatsoever. Why can't they make public/random/quick search games like many other MP games? And why would any of you think that excluding options like this is such a good idea to do?

 

[Two Words]

I would argue more don't have fun when they fail. And in this business majority rules.

Then those people can choose to not do random matchmaking raids. This isn't an either/or case.

 

[Navy Bean]

Seems clear from the video that Bungie put a ton of resources into the PvE game. Which is great for me as that is what I will play most. The PvP seems almost like an add-on (and plays that way too IMO). The issue is whether enough people will get to the end game to make it populated and worthwhile.

 

[Two Words]

The other thread that was actually talking about the raid itself got locked and directed to here, so I guess I will post this here:

This is one aspect of Destiny I am fairly confused with, and this video kind of highlights it. It seems like a HUGE portion of your damage will be coming from your weapons. There is going to be some crazy powerful loot to find. But if that is the case, won't all damage-dealing powers essentially become useless in later parts of the game? Does your damage-dealing supers and abilities scale to the weapon you are carrying? Warframe kind of has this problem in some cases. Warframes like Ash are useless after some time because many of his abilities are damage based. There is a ceiling to the amount of damage his abilities can do, After you find some powerful weapons, you really have no reason to use his powers. So how is Destiny going to handle this? If you eventually get a gun that does more damage per hit than a nova-bomb does, what is the point of the nova-bomb?

 

[D i Z]

I can answer from my perspective:

> The organizing and wait times involved to play a 2-3 hour game mode is additional overhead on top of that 2-3 hours of playtime. From my MMO experience, it can take a good while to get everybody together and ready to go, and that was among people I knew.

> Looking for players to group up with among the pool of GAF isn't much different than matchmaking except the pool of players is much larger in matchmaking, the entire process is automated, and underlying metrics can filter that matchmaking by connection quality, skill level, or quit rate. I also don't know the difference between a random on GAF and a random in matchmaking.

> Playing and failing is still playing. Doing logistics to put a group of six players together is not, and unnecessary in 2014 when matchmaking is available on all platforms.

It isn't even about having six friends, or having six friends who have Destiny. Its about having six friends that are max level, online at the same time, want to do a raid, and can set aside a few hours to try it. That puts you into "join a clan" territory, and anybody who is not used to the mindset behind MMO raiding and the gear hunt in end-game is in for a nasty surprise.

.

 

[Sevyne]

The other thread that was actually talking about the raid itself got locked and directed to here, so I guess I will post this here:

This is one aspect of Destiny I am fairly confused with, and this video kind of highlights it. It seems like a HUGE portion of your damage will be coming from your weapons. There is going to be some crazy powerful loot to find. But if that is the case, won't all damage-dealing powers essentially become useless in later parts of the game? Does your damage-dealing supers and abilities scale to the weapon you are carrying? Warframe kind of has this problem in some cases. Warframes like Ash are useless after some time because many of his abilities are damage based. There is a ceiling to the amount of damage his abilities can do, After you find some powerful weapons, you really have no reason to use his powers. So how is Destiny going to handle this? If you eventually get a gun that does more damage per hit than a nova-bomb does, what is the point of the nova-bomb?

Super damage is probably tied to both your level and your Light stat, and I would assume that endgame gear will have a good chunk of that on it. That isn't to say that scaling won't be an issue, but it does tell me that it will scale to a degree.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Then those people can choose to not do random matchmaking raids. This isn't an either/or case.

Sometimes for quality of the game and it's community positivity choices have to be made.
Ideally choice would work, but people can often ruin things. Bungie felt best to make it this way. I just feel it's the best option we have. Until games can teach players properly, things like this are the best option.

 

[Two Words]

Super damage is probably tied to both your level and your Light stat, and I would assume that endgame gear will have a good chunk of that on it. That isn't to say that scaling won't be an issue, but it does tell me that it will scale to a degree.

Is light something they talked much about? Is it something that gear gives you or something you develop on your Guardian through leveling?

 

[Ridley327]

Is light something they talked much about? Is it something that gear gives you or something you develop on your Guardian through leveling?

It's something that gear gives you. A lot of the legendary pieces in the beta had it as one of their default stats.

 

[Dr_Boris_Goltz]

I hope they don't fuck up the difficulty ala launch Diablo 3 inferno.

 

[Sevyne]

Is light something they talked much about? Is it something that gear gives you or something you develop on your Guardian through leveling?

It's on gear. In beta you could even preview some of it from the rep vendors. Seems to be on a lot of the level 20 legendary gear gear.

 

[Karl Hawk]

Is light something they talked much about? Is it something that gear gives you or something you develop on your Guardian through leveling?

From my beta experience, there were level 20 armor pieces that has light stats. Basically, light stats helps you earn exp after level 20 and it enhances your subclass abilities, especially your subclass's super against higher-level enemies.

Motes of Light are earned everytime you get to a level after 20.