Lupin the Third
Member
If you ask the people in the Xenoblade reveal thread, it still pales in comparison to the Vita. But as for exact clock speeds and such, not so sure.
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Rumor: New 3DS will double RAM and (nearly double) VRAM.
- Thread starter KojiKnight
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If you ask the people in the Xenoblade reveal thread, it still pales in comparison to the Vita. But as for exact clock speeds and such, not so sure.
Lol. Vita is still more powerful.
KojiKnight
Member
We know that Nintendo wants the hardware between portable and console to be such that they can quickly port games between the two (creating a 'unified' development scenario)... but that doesn't necessarily mean that they both have to run the same hardware. I'd expect the portable line to continue using ARM processors. There is almost no reason to switch away from them. They are scalable, cheap, fully BC, and constantly being improved upon. They are nearly as ubiquitous as x86 based processors and will be around for another decade or two at least.
The Vita has 512MB RAM, 128MB VRAM and a quad core A9 believed to be clocked at around 1Ghz. The A9 is much more modern than the ARM11 found inside the 3DS. The first gen iPhone had an ARM11 CPU while the iPhone 4S had a dual core A9. The current 3DS has a dual core ARM11 and an older ARM9 for BC.
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
Vita is another beast regarding specs, but it doesn't matter since the New 3DS will end up having more exclusive games than Vita anyway lol
Any word as to what the internal specs are of this New3DS? If they bumped up the RAM, they certainly can't be using the same old processors, can't they? I've also heard that the original 3DS is actually downclocked for battery concerns.
tkscz
Member
I was corrected ealier, so this time I'll have it right. It still doesn't compare to Vita. Not only does Vita have a quad core CPU and GPU, but it also runs on 512MBs of RAM and 128MBs (I thought it was 256 before) of VRAM. The only thing the 3DS has always had over the Vita, is that the RAM used is faster.
Astral Dog
Member
Why would we need have Hero of time game?
And thats the third time i see Majoras Mask mentioned for New 3DS, maybe the same game for both systems, but i just dont see how the regular 3DS cant do a proper (but not expensive of course) remake of a N64 game.
exmachina64
Banned
It's the same old, tired processors as the original 3DS. They bumped the clock speed, doubled the RAM and added some VRAM.
The GPU on the original 3DS is what's downclocked and it hasn't been changed for the new 3DS.
Can we get this stickied at the top of every page?
Thunder Monkey
Banned
A little more extreme than the difference between a DC and Xbox.
Vita
CPU ARM® Cortex™- A9 core (4 core)
GPU SGX543MP4+
Main Mem 512 MB
VRAM 128 MB
Screen res 960x544
Yeah, the GPU does not support MSAA (caused by the way lighting and shadowing is performed by the GPU) and can only do SSAA by rendering at a higher resolution and downsampling. Many games use 2X vertical SSAA in 2D mode because it has zero impact on the VRAM usage (a 400x480 framebuffer uses the same amount of memory as two 400x240 ones).
Some games do use SSAA in 3D, however. Examples:
- Ace Attorney and the Zen Pinball games use 4X SSAA in 3D (800x480 internal resolution).
- Gunman Clive uses 2X SSAA in 3D and 4X SSAA in 2D.
- The Layton games use 4X SSAA for the characters.
It's actually a shame more devs don't bother trying to use SSAA in 3D, specially in games that aren't fillrate limited. In simpler looking games it could easily be enabled with zero performance cost.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Yeah, it's like people sudden forget the DSi was also a hardware upgrade for the DS. This is exactly what it is.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
What multiplatforms? Vita is out of the equation for Sony; they have Vita TV, and PS Now to satisfy PS3 conversions to other platforms. Games like Golden Abyss-which required all those hardware resources-are no longer being made for the system, either.
I guess for multimedia functions that power is nice to have, but that's not vital. I also think it's kind of funny (and telling) that Nintendo chose to show the power difference in the new model w/ a web page load time lapse. I can see this power benefiting multimedia aspects more than games, and if Nintendo's going to be the only ones really using that power, just how many games will they realistically make for it in only two years before the real successor pops up?
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
Nintendo announced the Xenoblade Chronicles port is exclusive to New 3DS due to better CPU.
That means the original 3DS CAN'T run it.
exmachina64
Banned
It's a 3DSi for all intents and purposes. Original 3DS games will probably run in a compatibility mode and you won't see a performance boost in games.
The believed increases in CPU clockspeed and RAM increases will see improvements in general usage and games designed for the "New" 3DS platform, but if past occurrences are any indication, few major games will be released.
They could have moved over to a newer process which makes it possible to bump the clock speed. According to this article about the A8 vs the ARM11 most ARM11 were apparently made on 90nm process which is the same one launch 360 and PS3s had. Even if the 3DS is on 65nm that's far behind current mobile SoCs which are 28nm. IIRC the Vita was 45nm and possibly got a smaller one with the PCH2000.
It is very important for Nintendo that the BC is perfect (DS had a GBA CPU, 3DS had a DS CPU) so I don't think they will have moved up to a more advanced CPU.
I'm no CPU designer, but the way I understand it the CPU replacing it would have to work exactly like an ARM11 in compatibility mode which most likely only the ARM11 can do.
Edit:
So that's why they look so good. Odd that it doesn't support MSAA when it could have really helped on a 240p screen.
Meesh
Member
Thanks for the responses, puts it into perspective
Although...I gotta wonder why the minimal upgrade, or at least it seems that way to me. Outside of the second analog and the potential to run wii sized games...why not go a little further with better/larger screens ect.
Maintenance
Member
Keep spinning.
DonMigs85
Member
It's possible they now have either a 28/45nm ARM11 or maybe they actually went up to a Cortex-A5... As far as I know those are completely instruction-compatible with ARM11 while adding ARMv7 instructions and NEON support.
test_account
XP-39C²
I'm mostly thinking about japanese games regarding multiplatforms, like One Piece: Pirate Warriors 2&3 and J-Stars Victory V. Ports of other games are also easier with more hardware power, or at least more hardware power isnt anything negative in that regards.
Personally, i think that multimedia functions actually is important. Maybe no that much for me personally, but there must be a reason why they keep including it.
Its a good question about how many 3DS games that will use the extra power. I have no idea to be honest, but i'm pretty sure that there will be more than a handful. But we'll see
But overall i dont think that the extra power is unnecessary. as long as they find a good balance between hardware power and price.
I think the goal for updating the hardware is to extend the life line for 3ds for few more years and leverage on existing user base.
As we know Nintendo was working on unity porting for 3ds, and I think updating the cpu/ram could be to enable unity and other engines on 3DS. Furthermore, to upgrade it for enabling wii games does means that the processing is really higher because Wii was few times powerful than GC in terms of processing not generational leap. It will absolutely open doors for lot more titles from Wii and GC besides unity based games.
And if that happened all of us will be happy.. Isn't it? I will definitely buy the new 3ds xl
As we know Nintendo was working on unity porting for 3ds, and I think updating the cpu/ram could be to enable unity and other engines on 3DS. Furthermore, to upgrade it for enabling wii games does means that the processing is really higher because Wii was few times powerful than GC in terms of processing not generational leap. It will absolutely open doors for lot more titles from Wii and GC besides unity based games.
And if that happened all of us will be happy.. Isn't it? I will definitely buy the new 3ds xl
shouamabane
Member
I doubt a Wii port will look as good as a game made from the ground up for New 3DS.
The guy is being a jerk, but he has a point.
The guy is being a jerk, but he has a point.
DonMigs85
Member
I think it's more of a framebuffer anyway
Was power really the reason games weren't released for both systems in the first place?
GameAddict411
Member
i am sorry but this doesn't make any sense, calling it a hardware revision is not accurate at all. with the upgraded specs i don't think games that are designed for this are going to run at all on the old hardware. it will either split the install base or this is will be marketed as a new device(name it properly nintendo! enough with the stupid and confusing names). its really hard to believe this is just to improve the system OS and browser, so thats highly unlikely that they're upgrading the hardware just for this.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
Isnt the whole reason for the increased CPU/Ram so the 3DS could handle its online functionality better? I always saw the ability to run Xenoblade simply as a positive bonus. The graphics werent upgraded, the 3DS can just handle more things at once on the screeb at once. Dont understand why Vita comparisons are popping uo everywhere, the n3DS upgrades seem marginal at best.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
DSi got upgraded specs too, its ram pool quadrupled that of the DSLites. They upgraded it for the same reason theyre doing the 3DS, so they can implement better online funcrionality. Its a hardware revision.
comedy bomb
Banned
I just view it as DSi level upgrade to buy time until the next gen handheld is ready. Although if this takes off we could be waiting until 2017.
Nintendo saw the Pornhub statistics. It's not about game performance, it's for Lisa Ann.
deltatheta
Member
... yes?
Cow Mengde
Banned
You're absolutely right. The 3DS from the very beginning was built with more advanced effects than the GC/Wii even though the system is weaker. A lot of people today still don't grasp the concept of shaders for games.
DonMigs85
Member
Like another poster said, Nintendo may have also been forced to do this since the lower-capacity RAM chips are probably more expensive to produce at this point. And if the chips did switch to 28nm it would have allowed for higher clocks on the CPU/better battery life.
Might have been the same for the DSi back then too, maybe the factories reduced production of 4MB RAM and 16MB was the smallest capacity sold.
GameAddict411
Member
so all of the DS hardware revisions play the same games? even the original DS? believe it or not i have yet to touch a DS in my entire life lol. never had the interest in handhelds in general, but this is really a weird sort of upgrade. the old install base don't get any of the new feature? it wouldn't be a problem if they were minor gimmicks but completely transforming the online experience or the OS is a big deal. if i am an early owner i would feel cheated honestly, but above all wouldn't this split the install base? make the experience inconsistent for the users?
I agree
DonMigs85
Member
The DSi was probably still a bigger change compared to the original DS/DS Lite since it actually added in a more advanced OS, cameras, music player and the ability to buy DSiWare games online. This revision mostly just speeds up the OS and online functionality, adds an analog nub and better head-tracking 3D.
Doesn't necessarily mean they'll let it....
No 6 MB was in 2011. according to the rumours it's 10 now.
Either way it's a silly thing to say. Most smartdevices have no dedicated VRAM, and if you compare it to the 32 MB esram/edram on Xbox One and Wii U (not sure what type the 3DS VRAM is) and consider those are rendering in 10-20x the resolution, 6 MB is plenty.
According to some guys who've decapped a 3DS SoC, that one was already 45nm: http://gaasedelen.blogspot.de/2014/03/depackaging-nintendo-3ds-cpu.html
Considering the New 3DS has a longer battery runtime despite having a faster chipset and more RAM, a shrink to 28nm or even 22nm seems plausible. It's not like the battery is much larger after all.
I believe both the main memory and the embedded RAM are Fujitsu FCRAM.
CarbonByGravity
Member
Awesome! Thx
jacksepticeye
Member
That kinda blows. At least the 3D is being refined but the resolution needs a boost big time. Thought they would do that seen as they're throwing more horsepower into it
KojiKnight
Member
Because Nintendo would want to cut off 45 million systems from a big budget remake of a game yes?
I could see it supporting faster framerates/AA but I wouldn't worry about it being exclusive.
It's not transforming it, it's the same miiverse and same online interface BUT the original 3DS was never really meant for Miiverse and barely supported HTML4 in it's web browser. The update will make miiverse much more viable and give support to HTML5 (better video and game support).
I think the way the 3DS GPU does some things is incompatible with MSAA. Remember that the 3DS GPU does not have pixel shaders (only vertex shaders). Instead, it features fixed function implementations of per-pixel normalmapped lighting and real-time shadow mapping, and those effects might make use of intermediate buffers or read the depth buffer in certain ways that don't work with MSAA.
BTW, the "fixed function shaders" was actually a good decision back in 2010. Even the top-of-line mobile GPUs of that era had terrible pixel shading performance, which meant all that flexibility was underutilized. The iPhone 4 (and even the 4S) GPU struggles if you run a shader for a single full featured per-pixel point light, while the 3DS gives you three simultaneous lights on a single draw call at good performance. For example, Resident Evil Revelations is nearly entirely lit in real-time while similar mobile games just use lightmaps on everything. The lighting was actually gimped in the console ports: on the 3DS the specular highlights reflect on surfaces far away from from light source (as they should in real-life) but on the consoles and PC versions they fade out outside the lights' radius. Capcom even added some reflection maps to the walls and floors to make up for it, but it's not quite the same.
The biggest reason mobile GPUs moved to shaders was actually to improve battery life (simpler shaders, like the ones used to draw the UI, use less power) and reduce chip size (less specialized circuitry). Only very recently we started getting mobile GPUs with reasonable shading capabilities.