That's what some people don't understand. They have problems separating this logically. Typical apples & oranges reasoning.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Rumor: New 3DS will double RAM and (nearly double) VRAM.
- Thread starter KojiKnight
- Start date
That's what some people don't understand. They have problems separating this logically. Typical apples & oranges reasoning.
KojiKnight
Member
Sony didn't increase the CPU speed of the PSP. All models had a 333mhz CPU that had a variable clockrate. Sony forced first generation games to be 222mhz to help conserve battery power. Then throughout the generation they unlocked more and more of the CPU (266mhz, 300mhz, then finally 333mhz) to developers. The new hardware revisions DID have more efficient hardware so that's a part of why they 'unlocked' it.
They did double the memory of the first generation, but that was mostly used as a cache to make up for the horrible speeds of the UMD.
you see.. it's annoying how people double down .. and give excuses.. My comparison here is the fact that increase the speed of their 3ds and suddenly you think it's different from sony because all they did was just..oh wait "increase it from 222, to 266, then to 300mhz)". and then you admitted they increase , THEN you made a 360 by giving lame excuses about it. This isn't about WHY they did it. They did it and they did it regardless.. Just like the ram was increase on the 3ds and the cpu to speed up stuff EXACTLY like the psp.
How More biased can you be?
This argument is a comparison of increase/or rather improvement of system's component and I my comparison was closely spot on.
Why cant we?
Confused about what exactly?
1st generation PSPs got that speed through firmware. All 3ds that aren't new 3ds will never have that capability. Also, I think most people's problem is that Nintendo is developing software exclusive to the new revision which Sony didn't do with the PSP.
KojiKnight
Member
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, let me try again... All PSPs had a 333mhz CPU. First generation 3DS ONLY has a 266mhz processor. Sony allowed developers to use more of the processor's speed over time.
There is a very big difference between a hardware revision that is simply more power efficient, and another that is just plain faster/better hardware.
And in the end none of all the whining matters.
Thing is that we as gamers are offered a way to play 3DS games that look and run better than before, and maybe better performances on older/existing games.
This is a good thing, the extra controls is a good thing, the better 3D is a good thing, the NFS is a good thing, and the customization options is a good thing.
If you like all those good things then buy the damn thing, there is no reason to whine when Nintendo makes a less powerful console and at the same time whine when they make a more powerful one. In the end it looks too much as what it is, double standards, bias and fanboyism.
Imo, the only thing i hate about this release is that it still is region locked. I'll never forgive them for RLing their handhelds.
Thing is that we as gamers are offered a way to play 3DS games that look and run better than before, and maybe better performances on older/existing games.
This is a good thing, the extra controls is a good thing, the better 3D is a good thing, the NFS is a good thing, and the customization options is a good thing.
If you like all those good things then buy the damn thing, there is no reason to whine when Nintendo makes a less powerful console and at the same time whine when they make a more powerful one. In the end it looks too much as what it is, double standards, bias and fanboyism.
Imo, the only thing i hate about this release is that it still is region locked. I'll never forgive them for RLing their handhelds.
There is a difference between underclocking the CPU at first, and slowly increasing the clock back to its base value, and straight up installing a better component.
Anyhow, all this talk surrounding the 3DS hardware only increased my interest in the 3DS. I was very close to buying it last year with the release of Pokemon X/Y, but held off. Depending on how certain releases on the PS4 pan out, I might end up getting a 3DS instead.
Well, while i agree on your first point, thing is that the intention is the same: to be able to play more demanding games.
On your second part, a week ago i'd tell you go for it, right now i'd wait. The N3DS is a much better offer on all aspects, and i'd advise you to get Xenoblade with it.
Doczu
Member
It's not the same. All PSP games were made with 222mhz in mind. Even without upping the speed to 333 you could play these games. Xenoblade is made to be playable only on the new(er) hardware.
KojiKnight
Member
Your point is true, but your facts are off. Not all games were designed with 222mhz in mind, later games that ran at 333mhz did so even on first generation PSPs. The original PSP was fully capable of using it's full 333mhz processor speed, early games were simply not allowed to use it by Sony who were worried about how much it drained the battery. But as future more battery efficient models came out, they cared less for the generation 1 PSP owners.
The end result is the same though, Xenoblade is exclusive to the new 3DS, and it's because it has more powerful hardware... but it's a single game, and no one is expecting that to be a trend in retail games, because putting a big name game on a 2 million console install base would be crazy when there are 50+ million it could be playing on.
Everyone talks as if Xenoblade is a massive game that everyone will want to buy, but the numbers from it's initial release on Wii (with a much MUCH larger install base) weren't very good (no hard numbers, but most estimates put it between 500k and 1 mill world wide) and a downgraded port on a low install base hardware are going to be much worse.
really? I think some people are just trying to be dense about the name. it's called the "new 3DS" because it's the new 3DS. I don't imagine many consumers will be confused by what it is.
It has its fanbase, and the release will make many people, including me, very happy.
I'm also sure it can/will do a mill sales in the long run, because the 3DS userbase is nothing like the Wii userbase.
frankie_baby
Member
I would imagine though with pirates and used sales that number that played xenoblade is significantly higher than what it actually sold
Actually PSP Go had a 480 MHz CPU.
It's also natural to assume the regional delay and limited American release had a large impact on total sales. We have evidence that Xenoblade was one of the most pirated latter day Wii releases, up there even with Mario Galaxy 2.
I wouldn't be surprised if both Xenoblade 3D and Xenoblade X end up outselling the Wii original despite the smaller userbases.
Ingueferroque
Banned
But Sony didn't increase the CPU of future PSP models.. it always had a 333mhz processor.
sörine;128415050 said:
Oh wow, was this unlockable to CFW? I wonder if this affected emulation positively..
KojiKnight
Member
I can see it being a selling point for N3DS, and I can see it selling decently, but I'd be very surprised if it hit 1 million world wide on the N3DS platform. If it was a regular 3DS release (not possible given the hardware on the system, but just as a pure hypothetical) I'd agree with you whole heartedly.
There have been many instances where it's been shown that a pirated copy does not equal a lost sale. Just because a game is downloaded by someone doesn't mean that person was guaranteed to buy the game. There is also issues with the fact that the game had such a staggered world wide release, so many of those pirated copies may have been offset by them buying the game once it actually launched in their region. Not saying this as a fact, but it a factor that should at least be considered.
sörine;128415050 said:
Did not know this, I assume there weren't any games that took advantage of it and it was likely used for it's internal browser or the like?
(edit) Actually, apparently it didn't have a 480mhz CPU, it was a mistranslation and instead referenced USB speeds. http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/06/sce-pspgos-480mhz-clock-speed-references-usb-not-cpu/
GhostTrick
Banned
It could've been for the line up of the next handheld. They're releasing this too soon.
At a launch line-up, of a cheap handheld, it could've sold a million I think.
KojiKnight
Member
It could, but if the next hand held is fully BC as all of the previous DS iterations have been, then it could still be a selling point then and anyone that wants to spend the extra money to play it now will be able to 2 years sooner.
We're still not sure on how Xenoblade is even being released. It could be that any 'exclusive' games won't see a physical release at all to prevent consumer confusion at stores.
You're right! All this time I thought it had been increased!
Too bad, it probably would've helped with PSP iffy SNES emulation.
frankie_baby
Member
of course I don't think that 1 pirated = 1 lost sale, but its a fair bet that it'd be a decent percentage, especially in a case like this where the game wasn't even available in the usa for a considerable period of time, I would also imagine the numbers that played pirate and then bought afterwards aren't (outside of places like GAF) really that high at all
KojiKnight
Member
True true. It's just a shame there can never be 1:1 situation where you can truly see how piracy effects a game in the same situation as Xenoblade or not.
No, there's sadly no way you can, but i think we can all agree that a timely Xenoblade release on all regions would ensure a lot more sales back then.
I still believe that both Xeno N3DS and Xeno X will sell more than the Wii one did. We'll just have to wait and see though.
And I think homebrew let you suspend games/apps and run another one and swap between them. But I only ever had a PSP 1000.
thechristoph
Sir!
Underpowered if it wanted to run Titanfall maybe, but it doesn't.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I'll be happy if they can bump up the resolution.
Well, that would require Sony to develope software for their handhelds in the first place.
:3
Compared to what? The handheld market leader PS Vita?
Compared to pretty much every modern electronic device in the year 2014
If we consider the handheld market, which only consist of 2 devices, the 3DS (45 millions sold) and the VIta (4 Million sold), it is pretty clear that "specs and hardware power" mean jackshit to the customers and it's no argument for or against the success of a device, yet it is often times used by people to mock the 3DS.
It is even more apparent if we take a look at every handheld since the original Gameboy (which didn't have great specs either). Hardware power has NEVER meant anything to most of the customers of handhelds, only software and innovation have.
Calling something under- or overpowered makes only sense if we consider the purpose something is designed for. Let's say you have a race car and try to compete in the formula 1. The goal is to become the NR. 1 in that sport. If you have a car that is 100 PS slower than everyone else, you'll not gonna win. It's no doubt your car is "underpowered" - it has not enough horsepower to successfully compete, let alone win.
The handheld market is similar. The goal is to become the market leader and make the most profit. Specs don't matter. Nintendo, with often lesser spes than the competition has always won in this market, simply through better software, stronger ip's and innovation. In that regard calling their handhelds underpowered doesn't make sense.
The 3DS is not underpowered, it is powered just right, while the PS Vita is clearly owerpowered for its purpose. It has better specs, but those didn't help it achieve the goal it was designed for.
machemachete
Banned
Its still very underpowered by today standards, nowadays the cellphones are capable of running friggin' Bioshock
To me it seems like many people use the term "underpowered" in a wrong way. It would make more sense to say "lesser powered", because that what it is. It's simply "lesser powered" than other devices, yet not "underpowered", because that always implies something has not enough of what it needs to achieve a certain / its specific goal and that does not apply to the 3DS. It has already achieved what it was build for, namely becoming the NR.1 selling handheld console.
KojiKnight
Member
'better' is subjective. If you mean higher resolution, then you'd have to increase all of the specs quite a bit more to compensate for how much power it would take to run things native... At that point you have a PSVita, which you can already buy
'better' is subjective. If you mean higher resolution, then you'd have to increase all of the specs quite a bit more to compensate for how much power it would take to run things native... At that point you have a PSVita, which you can already buy
I already have bought it (and play it more than my 3ds xl for the record)
And im just thinking enough of a resolution increase to make the new xl look as good as the current regular 3ds
I'd love to have a better resolution, too, but oh well, we can't have everything... If wonder if a better screen + an internal upscaler would have been possible.
thewhitehawk
Member
And have you, kind sir, actually seen how Bioshock looks on the cellphones of "nowadays"?
http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/4/5960499/bioshock-mobile-galley
Mobile devices also have X-Com which, despite translating better to a smartphone's interface, hardly looks as nice as any other version.
It's a bit unfair to claim that a mobile device has the same level of quality as a previous-gen console. They are closer than any other mobile device ever was to the level of quality of a home-console, that is true, and that in of itself is impressive, but to pretend that they're already there is simply wrong.
KojiKnight
Member
There is only so much you can do at that resolution. Compare the GB(C) VC on the system. That's pretty much what you'd get.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
You can, but why would you want to? the end result will always be the same:
Vita hardware trounces New3DS hardware in every conceivable way.
So what is left to discuss?
KojiKnight
Member
This isn't very comparable though, so I can see why some people would be upset.
Cellphones that cost $600.
KojiKnight
Member
They haven't been losing money since the end of the first year after price drop. I would doubt their profit margins are huge though, those $150 tablets are using mass produced CPU/GPUs where the 3DS chip is more customized (pico200 was certainly never standard, the ARM11 (ARMv6) isn't used by hardly anyone anymore either. These aren't being mass produced anywhere but for Nintendo which adds to their cost.
DonMigs85
Member
The mobile SoC market did change a lot since 2010/2011 - maybe their next handheld might use even more off-the-shelf components like a Qualcomm or Mediatek SoC.