They need to go off the shelf and program to an OS only.
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Rumor: New 3DS will double RAM and (nearly double) VRAM.
- Thread starter KojiKnight
- Start date
They need to go off the shelf and program to an OS only.
DonMigs85
Member
They should use an AMD Beema instead
DonMigs85
Member
Pretty much. Better web browser and faster Miiverse, and CPU-limited scenarios in games will be reduced (I have a feeling the slow ARM11 cores held back the PICA GPU in many cases).
I see. Cheers.
The only reason why I asked is because I want to see Nintendo move to an one OS platform with multiple hardware, and seeing the CPU boost but not a GPU upgrade just got me thinking, that's all.
This was pretty obvious since launch. The 3DS actually has a decent GPU for its generation (2010), but is severely gimped by it's CPU. You can easily see that at games like RE:M where animations drop to like 1/3 of refresh rate on distant enemies...
DonMigs85
Member
Plus supposedly only one core can be used by games right?
Fourth Storm
Member
I think about half of the second core was opened up to devs a couple years back or so. I'm not sure how that resource allocation works exactly. Like how do you "lock off" half a core. I'm guessing Nintendo just has the OS running in the background and whatever isn't getting used, devs can access, whereas before they were reserving an entire core to cover their bases in case of new features added.
It is not launching with any exclusive game. Smash and MH4G will benefit from its extra controls, but that is about it. Xenoblade was simply given a 2015 date, so it could come at the end of next year for all we know. It looked pretty rough in the trailer.
thechristoph
Sir!
The part that matters. Games.
For me I dont see why Nintendo even releases this new 3DS if they dont intend to use the extra memory in games.
Maybe if the new chipset is cheaper to buy for Nintendo?.
Extra memory for webbrowsing? Well currently my Facebook-tab takes up 214MB according to chromes task manager, and Neogaf takes up 76MB.
Even if it had enough memory, it will still be too slow to render pages and the screenresolution is too small to even make it enjoyable for me.
It would have been better if Nintendo skipped this one instead.. or just push out new games that use the new hardware.
Maybe if the new chipset is cheaper to buy for Nintendo?.
Extra memory for webbrowsing? Well currently my Facebook-tab takes up 214MB according to chromes task manager, and Neogaf takes up 76MB.
Even if it had enough memory, it will still be too slow to render pages and the screenresolution is too small to even make it enjoyable for me.
It would have been better if Nintendo skipped this one instead.. or just push out new games that use the new hardware.
frankie_baby
Member
They likely will use the extra memory in exclusive and enhanced games though
Also isn't chrome a bit of an excessive memory hog as far as web browsers go
Yes, it uses some memory, but still. Facebook is filled with pictures, and animations, and banners etc. all take up a lot of space.
Nostremitus
Member
Xenoblade Chronicles says hi, it's a New3DS handheld exclusive. Monster Hunter 4 will have "enhanced" features as well.
frankie_baby
Member
Be interesting to see if monhun just uses the controls or if it performs/looks any better on "new" 3ds
dampflokfreund
Banned
I hope to experience the latter one. MH4 has horrible textures from the N64 area, the N3DS' doubled VRAM would help very much.
KojiKnight
Member
There is only so much you can do in an enhanced game. For example, you couldn't use the extra memory to give you larger open world spaces in an enhanced game. It's likely enhanced would simply be used to cut down on loading by using the extra memory as a cache.
The extra CPU on enhanced games COULD be used to increase framerates though, as mentioned earlier it's rare that the GPU is the part holding back games on the 3DS. It's mostly CPU limited... but even if they GPU isn't increased in speed, the rumor says there will be additional VRAM which will help with things like AA and textures.
There is also the other (less reputable) rumor that says that the RAM speed is also getting a boost. So even if the base clock isn't getting a boost, those two things could still result in some nice additions to graphic performance.
lostinblue
Banned
Not sure this is the thread, but I went to the work of doing it so...
Not feeling it:
nope. (there's no thread for it, is there?)
EDIT: nevermind, found it.
Not feeling it:
nope. (there's no thread for it, is there?)
EDIT: nevermind, found it.
KojiKnight
Member
Not sure this is the thread, but I went to the work of doing it so...
Not feeling it:
nope. (there's no thread for it, is there?)
EDIT: nevermind, found it.
May not be specifically for this thread, but it's still good to bring up since this gives a visual representation of the video versus Wii, though since the port is in progress it may still improve somewhat.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I'm gonna get shit for this from some people, but I hope Nintendo drops legacy support. Holding them back to much on the console side, and it will be on the handheld side to if they stick with the current arch.
I get that it's hard to cut off the gravy train. Just look at MS and all of the Windows legacy stuff. At some point you gotta cut bait and move on though.
I get this is tangential since the NEW 3DS is basically the 3DSi and not a brand new system.
KojiKnight
Member
The next Nintendo handheld will almost certainly be ARM based, there is very little reason for them to cut that would prevent BC.
While Nintendo couldn't drop a Snap Dragon into the N3DS as was mentioned, there is no reason why they couldn't for a more powerful successor. The PICA200 graphics has some specialized hardware for certain shaders, but a more powerful chip should be able to 'emulate' those functions in software shaders without too much issue.
With how far ARM chips have advanced in just the last 2 years, in another 2 years when Nintendo does announce the successor it should be a mostly non-issue.
Can't Nintendo do a Sony and their next gen Handheld has modern CPU/GPU in vein of the Snapdragon 805 but keep their legacy support but drop it down the road?
Natureboy99
Banned
OK. See the Vita 150 games thread.
Xbudz
Member
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/02.html
The OS Iwata is talking about here, I wonder if it will effect New 3DS.
Just go.
The OS Iwata is talking about here, I wonder if it will effect New 3DS.
Just go.
I kind of wish they waited until the actual 3DS successor to port Xenoblade to, the 3DS screen is horribly low res for an open world action game.
KojiKnight
Member
You could use that excuse to wait forever on anything though. "They should have waited to release X because hardware Y will be better."
I doubt they'll be able to just emulate the PICA and get a consistent and accurate performance in their next handheld. Not saying it can't be emulated but the design is quite different from other GPUs so it would require a substantial overhead, and it can actually do some things (geometry shaders mainly) that modern mobile GPUs still can't, that would have to be done in software and make the emulation even more complex.
Nintendo has always done BC by including custom hardware and/or running in legacy mode, and I doubt they'll be able to change that until they go with more generalised off the shelf parts.
Somewhat OT, but kindof related. I've always wondered how Vita does its BC, and never seen it answered, does it include PSP hardware or is it fully emulated? The latter would be very impressive and pretty much the only time it's been done fully just one generation later, and the former kindof makes you wonder why they bothered when it can't play UMDs anyway.
Looking thorough that thing is a mess. A single pic with very little context at to the game or quality. Most of those games are available elsewhere, are not utilizing the hardware at all, digital only on a system with memory issues, or very nitch Japanese games. There are not many exclusives that justify my purchase and with talk of Gravity Rush 2 getting PS4ed I may just give up on the system.
I buy a handheld for games that I cant get elsewhere not so that I can play indie titles that I can get on Steam for less then $5. 3DS gives me that not Vita.
Bluemercury
Member
Why ? Isnt it an arm CPU too?
Dr. Buni
Member
Will wait for more "exclusive" games to be announced before "upgrading". I am not feeling Uglyblade Chronicles either.Not sure this is the thread, but I went to the work of doing it so...
Not feeling it:
nope. (there's no thread for it, is there?)
EDIT: nevermind, found it.
Legacy support might not be expensive I don't think. By the time it's ripe for a 4DS or whatever, the ARM11 for BC may just be a blip in their total BOM.
lostinblue
Banned
Raspberry Pi uses an ARM11 and that took off quite a bit precisely in 2013 and 2014, has been gaining acceptance year over year.
Of course that niche and ARM11 production should be down due to phones phasing it out in favour of A5's in 2013. But... It's still not just Nintendo.
And don't forget how Nintendo kept at it with an ARM7 and an ARM9 with the DS all the way until the DSi. Now, at that point they had to be the pretty much the only dudes forking ARM7's left and right. Worse yet, a SoC/assymetric dual core thing with an ARM9 and an ARM7. Crazeeyyyyy.
It's pretty strange for Nintendo to actually put a A8/A9 or whatever in here if they do, and nuke the ARM11's, time will tell, but I'd say perhaps it has the ARM11 at 700 MHz instead of 233, that's a three time speed increase and probably the original speed rating for the part they're using. (they downclocked it)
metalslimer
Member
True, but the 3DS resolution has been holding back certain types of games from being possible since 2011.
Brad Grenz
Member
That's immaterial since, whatever the underlying CPU architecture, the 3DS chipset is a custom SoC. They don't get the economies of scale of something like the generic Chinese quad core ARM chips being bought by dozens of companies for various no-name tablets and phones, or even a Snapdragon 801 which is powering basically every high end Android phone model introduced this year.
Not that it matters much since the 3DS SoC is very small and using an older fabrication process with very low target clocks so it is a very inexpensive part at this point.
Yeah I think the foundries are more than happy to oblige if it keep their older fabs running.
synce
Member
I don't think anyone ever bought a Nintendo console for the graphics capabilities... More cpus and new rams will bring better gameplay though. I wonder if all future Nintendo games will require the New 3DS
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Uh ARM7 and ARM9 are very popular in microcontrollers.
For the rest of your post, Nintendo has always used custom CPUs in their handhelds, and has for consoles since at least GameCube (not sure about N64... SNES was custom, NES seems like off-the-shelf 6502 spinoff). Their scale is high enough to allow them to do this; it's not Apple level but its still 10s of millions. It gets especially cheap when they use older fab technology.
Also ARM doesn't make CPUs; they license their designs to other companies, one of which is Nintendo. It doesn't matter if others are using ARM11 or ARM9 or ARM7, they just need a supplier that can produce ICs, and since their needs aren't crazy (they don't need TSMC's latest fab process) its easy to get supply.
zero shift
Banned
These screenshots are taken in different resolutions. It seems to be more of a resolution problem than a texture problem.
My hunch is this is their primary idea: To introduce the core NintendOS platform with the New3DS. It will run full retail 3DS and n3DS without the need for having specific architecture or graphics chip (such as PICA) to run the games, and thus they can "let go" of their previous legacy support without having to drop backward compatibility.
This is what I think. It's hard to compare since the Wii pictures are super-sampled.
lostinblue
Banned
I know, and I get why they do it, 100% compatibility is very important for them and they do it by the book. Which is why I don't think they did away with ARM11's on the n3DS.
But since they end up being the last using whatever processor platform they're relying on I personally don't get why they didn't go with Cortex A8 instead when they did the 3DS, A9 was out but nevermind that, it would be a modern architecture compared to ARM11, they had to know they were locking themselves down onto a worse CPU because of a few bucks.
I did what I could...
Can't pull direct feeds out of a unreleased game for an unreleased console. I did try to pull it from the best quality stream available though.
Other than that I actually have a direct feed of one of those shots on the Wii.
I could do the others and re-create the time of the day even, as I have that save ready to go, but I won't have the time, I'm flying tomorrow so no can do.
Check above.
I've salvaged a direct framebuffer grab of my playthrough on the Wii.
For the other two no dice.
Isn't part of the highlights an increased 3D screen size with even better viewing angles than that of an XL? People seem to be overlooking the whole facetracking thing on the system.
Um...why would they bump up the clockspeed but still keep the GPU downclocked? That doesn't make much sense...
Maybe because the faster CPU isn't enough to feed a faster GPU?
Is there no way to half-step a downclock?