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#GamerGate thread 2: it's about feminism in games journalism

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It's impossible to win where the GamerGate discussion is concerned.

On one side are the worst elements of the internet on 4chan, 8chan, reddit and elsewhere who've adopted the movement to voice their own personal hatred, biases, ignorance and/or insecurities.

On the other side are the uber-liberal radical feminists and "social justice warrior's" who live in a state perpetual victimhood and post stuff like this; just another flavor of hate dressed up to look like tolerance and equality.

Any honorable intentions associated with GamerGate have long been rendered impotent by the worst elements of either side and there's no way to take a position without being attacked by those who've already chosen a side.

If there are serious concerns about journalistic malpractice that need to be voiced, there are better ways to do this than jump on the tainted GamerGate bandwagon. Continuing to give either side the exorbitant amount of attention that they're currently getting is just perpetuating the chaos. 4chan and SJWs both thrive off of attention, positive or negative, and the only way to remove them from the conversation is to ignore them and divert the attention to more constructive avenues of discussion. Until this happens, everyone in the middle will just continue to get caught in the crossfire. Every new voices in the discussion just adds more noise. Speaking to those who believe there are legitimate issues to be addressed, sometimes it's better just to cut your losses and focus on new things without the baggage of the old dragging you down.

That's just my two cents.
 
I don't see how this is part of the GG discussion, let alone a whole side.

It's not.

I ... honestly don't even think it's that bad. Near the end the piece essentially admits to not actually hating "men" but the position of "men".

If you want to quote some real manhate, terfs have always been far better at it and would be equally relevant.
a.k.a not at all.
 

JackDT

Member
From TB's post:

When someone tried to doxx Brianna Wu on 8chan, users spamposted to bury it to make sure nobody could read it until the moderators came along.

That is so twisted. Go ahead and browse 8chan /raid/ /war/ /i/ /hax/ /cq/ and others to find 8chan forums that *sticky* posts with Dox information for easier access. One time they spammed a post off the page and then made it into a huge PR stunt... so 8chan has no problems doxxing. WTF.

(random example searching Google Images that doesn't actually link to a doxx:)

NVn4UbDl.png
 
Sometimes reading about GG is like reading the opening crawl to Revenge of the Sith:

There are heroes on both sides.

Except there is literally a "the Dark Side" that is trying to gain power over the entire galaxy.
 

vcc

Member
It's impossible to win where the GamerGate discussion is concerned.

On one side are the worst elements of the internet on 4chan, 8chan, reddit and elsewhere who've adopted the movement to voice their own personal hatred, biases, ignorance and/or insecurities.

On the other side are the uber-liberal radical feminists and "social justice warrior's" who live in a state perpetual victimhood and post stuff like this; just another flavor of hate dressed up to look like tolerance and equality.

Any honorable intentions associated with GamerGate have long been rendered impotent by the worst elements of either side and there's no way to take a position without being attacked by those who've already chosen a side.

If there are serious concerns about journalistic malpractice that need to be voiced, there are better ways to do this than jump on the tainted GamerGate bandwagon. Continuing to give either side the exorbitant amount of attention that they're currently getting is just perpetuating the chaos. 4chan and SJWs both thrive off of attention, positive or negative, and the only way to remove them from the conversation is to ignore them and divert the attention to more constructive avenues of discussion. Until this happens, everyone in the middle will just continue to get caught in the crossfire. Every new voices in the discussion just adds more noise. Speaking to those who believe there are legitimate issues to be addressed, sometimes it's better just to cut your losses and focus on new things without the baggage of the old dragging you down.

That's just my two cents.

There really isn't 2 sides, the 'SJW' you refer to were originally the comically extreme tumblr feminists are really few. Most of the position to #GG is EVERYBODY not in #GG. The mainstream media regards them as a hyperventilating nerd stereotype.
 

FoneBone

Member
"radical feminists" "social justice warriors" "perpetual victimhood" all used in one sentence unironically TIC TAC TOE I WIN
 
It's impossible to win where the GamerGate discussion is concerned.

On one side are the worst elements of the internet on 4chan, 8chan, reddit and elsewhere who've adopted the movement to voice their own personal hatred, biases, ignorance and/or insecurities.

On the other side are the uber-liberal radical feminists and "social justice warrior's" who live in a state perpetual victimhood and post stuff like this; just another flavor of hate dressed up to look like tolerance and equality.

Any honorable intentions associated with GamerGate have long been rendered impotent by the worst elements of either side and there's no way to take a position without being attacked by those who've already chosen a side.

If there are serious concerns about journalistic malpractice that need to be voiced, there are better ways to do this than jump on the tainted GamerGate bandwagon. Continuing to give either side the exorbitant amount of attention that they're currently getting is just perpetuating the chaos. 4chan and SJWs both thrive off of attention, positive or negative, and the only way to remove them from the conversation is to ignore them and divert the attention to more constructive avenues of discussion. Until this happens, everyone in the middle will just continue to get caught in the crossfire. Every new voices in the discussion just adds more noise. Speaking to those who believe there are legitimate issues to be addressed, sometimes it's better just to cut your losses and focus on new things without the baggage of the old dragging you down.

That's just my two cents.

YBSILre.png


Awesome that you have the strength to stay above it all.
 

JC Sera

Member
Why everyone always be bashing tumblr, yo?

It's one of my favorite places to post art. :'c
Just woke up and LTTP
but the main reason I left tumblr was due to study reasons but I also found its had a positive impact on my mental health
Like the extremists do exist but if you don't follow them or go through their tags, you are most likely going to have an experience equivalent to as if they don't exist
Its more the overall culture that has a constant low background radiation toxicity and negativity. It is definitely not something you want to expose yourself to while trying to get your shit together.
For example tumblr loves to dogpile people over 1 stupid mistake.
Regardless of what that person does they are most likely going to get driven off the site; an example of this is the "I didn't know it was X" blogs, where a person makes a stupid comment not knowing about X (usually being a fandom) and their comment get popular and gets seen a lot, get a lot of anons clicking on their name and sending them "ur an idiot". They eventually choose to leave and just delete their stuff, leaving only a title.
It also has a culture which reinforces a lot of things that stem from social anxiety and presents them as a-ok behaviour, that you shouldn't try to change in yourself, regardless of whether or not you have anxiety issues or just shy.
 

zeldablue

Member
It's impossible to win where the GamerGate discussion is concerned.

On one side are the worst elements of the internet on 4chan, 8chan, reddit and elsewhere who've adopted the movement to voice their own personal hatred, biases, ignorance and/or insecurities.

On the other side are the uber-liberal radical feminists and "social justice warrior's" who live in a state perpetual victimhood and post stuff like this; just another flavor of hate dressed up to look like tolerance and equality.

Any honorable intentions associated with GamerGate have long been rendered impotent by the worst elements of either side and there's no way to take a position without being attacked by those who've already chosen a side.

If there are serious concerns about journalistic malpractice that need to be voiced, there are better ways to do this than jump on the tainted GamerGate bandwagon. Continuing to give either side the exorbitant amount of attention that they're currently getting is just perpetuating the chaos. 4chan and SJWs both thrive off of attention, positive or negative, and the only way to remove them from the conversation is to ignore them and divert the attention to more constructive avenues of discussion. Until this happens, everyone in the middle will just continue to get caught in the crossfire. Every new voices in the discussion just adds more noise. Speaking to those who believe there are legitimate issues to be addressed, sometimes it's better just to cut your losses and focus on new things without the baggage of the old dragging you down.

That's just my two cents.

Where do we begin the constructive discussion? Everyone gets super emotional by just thinking about the topic. It's a no win scenario, but an important one too.
 

MotherFan

Member
It's impossible to win where the GamerGate discussion is concerned.

On one side are the worst elements of the internet on 4chan, 8chan, reddit and elsewhere who've adopted the movement to voice their own personal hatred, biases, ignorance and/or insecurities.

On the other side are the uber-liberal radical feminists and "social justice warrior's" who live in a state perpetual victimhood and post stuff like this; just another flavor of hate dressed up to look like tolerance and equality.

Any honorable intentions associated with GamerGate have long been rendered impotent by the worst elements of either side and there's no way to take a position without being attacked by those who've already chosen a side.

If there are serious concerns about journalistic malpractice that need to be voiced, there are better ways to do this than jump on the tainted GamerGate bandwagon. Continuing to give either side the exorbitant amount of attention that they're currently getting is just perpetuating the chaos. 4chan and SJWs both thrive off of attention, positive or negative, and the only way to remove them from the conversation is to ignore them and divert the attention to more constructive avenues of discussion. Until this happens, everyone in the middle will just continue to get caught in the crossfire. Every new voices in the discussion just adds more noise. Speaking to those who believe there are legitimate issues to be addressed, sometimes it's better just to cut your losses and focus on new things without the baggage of the old dragging you down.

That's just my two cents.

I don't think there is a legitimate issue in GG whatsoever.
 

MYeager

Member
Additionally, I'd like to see TB actually link to these 10+ articles released within 24 hours. I think he'd struggle.


Found a KiA reply that I believe he's referencing:

'Gamers' don't have to be your audience. 'Gamers' are over. Leigh Alexander Gamasutra Aug 28, 10:00am

An awful week to care about video games Chris Plante Polygon Aug 28, 1:21pm (not really related, reporting on several events from Quinn, to Fish, to Anita, to Sony plane diversion, etc)

The death of the “gamers” and the women who “killed” them Ars Technica Aug 28, 5:00pm (first time someone says Dead/Death. Mostly focuses on Anita and Quinn and the treatment of them, links to Alexander article but not similar to it at all)

A Guide to Ending "Gamers" Devin Wilson Gamasutra Aug 28, 7:57 pm (references Dan Golding's article from before all of this, mostly talks about things that can be done to build a better community. It's a really good positive article)

We Might Be Witnessing The 'Death of An Identity" Luke Plunkett Kotaku Aug 28, 8:00pm (mostly links to Golding's and Alexander's articles and quotes from each, not in itself an editorial)

Gaming Is Leaving “Gamers” Behind Joseph Bernstein Buzzfeed Aug 28, 8:29 pm (references Golding's 2 month old article at that point, is about the similarity of early movie audiences)

Sexism, Misogyny, and online attacks: It's a horrible time to consider yourself a gamer Patrick O'Rourke Financial Post Aug 28, 9:33pm (not about the death of an identity at all, it's mostly about Anita's harassment and doesn't mention anything about Gamers Are Over articles.

It's Dangerous to Go Alone: Why Are Gamers So Angry? Arthur Chu The Daily Beast Aug 28 (another in response to Anita's harassment and overall culture, nothing about them being dead, over, or referring to anything that does)

The End of Gamers Dan Golding Tumblr Aug 28, time unknown (this is dumb because it was him reposting an article he'd written previously)

So of those most are articles that are focusing on different gross things that had been going on for the month prior. Few are alike other than their reaction at the harassment. If they're colluding then they should've worked better on a stronger core message.
 

Ayt

Banned
It's impossible to win where the GamerGate discussion is concerned.

On one side are the worst elements of the internet on 4chan, 8chan, reddit and elsewhere who've adopted the movement to voice their own personal hatred, biases, ignorance and/or insecurities.

On the other side are the uber-liberal radical feminists and "social justice warrior's" who live in a state perpetual victimhood and post stuff like this; just another flavor of hate dressed up to look like tolerance and equality.

Any honorable intentions associated with GamerGate have long been rendered impotent by the worst elements of either side and there's no way to take a position without being attacked by those who've already chosen a side.

If there are serious concerns about journalistic malpractice that need to be voiced, there are better ways to do this than jump on the tainted GamerGate bandwagon. Continuing to give either side the exorbitant amount of attention that they're currently getting is just perpetuating the chaos. 4chan and SJWs both thrive off of attention, positive or negative, and the only way to remove them from the conversation is to ignore them and divert the attention to more constructive avenues of discussion. Until this happens, everyone in the middle will just continue to get caught in the crossfire. Every new voices in the discussion just adds more noise. Speaking to those who believe there are legitimate issues to be addressed, sometimes it's better just to cut your losses and focus on new things without the baggage of the old dragging you down.

That's just my two cents.

There have been thousands of posts on this forum decrying gamergate and I don't think a single person would fit the above description.

This isn't about two extreme sides going at each other. It is about one group of extremists and everyone else.
 

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
I don't think there is a legitimate issue in GG whatsoever.

There's usually something legitimate at the core of any radical group's beliefs. The problem is that it it gets so smothered and surrounded by bullshit that it doesn't really matter.

If one has a legitimate complaint about something, then nobody is going to listen when your response is about 1000x stronger than what's appropriate. And for good reason.
 
It's impossible to win where the GamerGate discussion is concerned.

On one side are the worst elements of the internet on 4chan, 8chan, reddit and elsewhere who've adopted the movement to voice their own personal hatred, biases, ignorance and/or insecurities.

On the other side are the uber-liberal radical feminists and "social justice warrior's" who live in a state perpetual victimhood and post stuff like this; just another flavor of hate dressed up to look like tolerance and equality.

Any honorable intentions associated with GamerGate have long been rendered impotent by the worst elements of either side and there's no way to take a position without being attacked by those who've already chosen a side.

If there are serious concerns about journalistic malpractice that need to be voiced, there are better ways to do this than jump on the tainted GamerGate bandwagon. Continuing to give either side the exorbitant amount of attention that they're currently getting is just perpetuating the chaos. 4chan and SJWs both thrive off of attention, positive or negative, and the only way to remove them from the conversation is to ignore them and divert the attention to more constructive avenues of discussion. Until this happens, everyone in the middle will just continue to get caught in the crossfire. Every new voices in the discussion just adds more noise. Speaking to those who believe there are legitimate issues to be addressed, sometimes it's better just to cut your losses and focus on new things without the baggage of the old dragging you down.

That's just my two cents.
My issue with your example is that it seems to be a post on someone's own site stating "I hate you. You've hurt me. Please god just leave me alone."

That's hugely different than issuing death threats, doxxing, and harassing someone because you don't like what they are saying.

If she was posting that on, say, Total Biscuit's site and following it with other messages increasing in hatred and fervor, I could see your point.

But honestly, after watching GamerGate, I don't fault her at all.

There's usually something legitimate at the core of any radical group's beliefs. The problem is that it it gets so smothered and surrounded by bullshit that it doesn't really matter.

If one has a legitimate complaint about something, then nobody is going to listen when your response is about 1000x stronger than what's appropriate. And for good reason.
I agree. The concern that there is corruption in the gaming media is a real concern. The problem here is in what they have targeted, why, and how they fought.
 
There have been thousands of posts on this forum decrying gamergate and I don't think a single person would fit the above description.

This isn't about two extreme sides going at each other. It is about one group of extremists and everyone else.

Every perpetrator has a victim. Even if that's all that they are, there are still two sides.
 
On the other side are the uber-liberal radical feminists and "social justice warrior's" who live in a state perpetual victimhood and post stuff like this; just another flavor of hate dressed up to look like tolerance and equality.

You had to go to the wayback machine to find an non-gg-related argument to make the equivalence?

I'm not saying extreme feminists don't exist, but I haven't heard from them in all of the GG discussion. The feminist viewpoints have been some of the most moderate ones, in fact. "Don't harass women on the internet" and "the internet isn't a nice place for vocal women" aren't exactly hard-line extreme positions.
 

vcc

Member
Every perpetrator has a victim. Even if that's all that they are, there are still two sides.

I don't agree. What does the first part even mean? Perpetrator? Victim? Most stories have more than two sides. The simplistic view that everything is diametric is how you get into notions that evolution is questionable because 2 equal sides right? anti-vaccines etc... making everything equal polar opposites will give you a pretty faulty view of the world. False dichotomy fallacies.
 

Omnipunctual Godot

Gold Member
I guess they've got something about Nick Denton having infiltrated and caused in-fighting among them. Even if he never did it's now pretty much going to be these people who wear the tin foil hats a little too tightly pointing at each other and yelling 'Shill!' now. I mean they were doing that before but now they'll feel justified in it.
You mean this post that the founder and proprietor of Gawker Media appears to have left on his Facebook after recruiting people to infiltrate and sabotage the #gamergate movement?

ySYXrOCQ.jpg
 

gogosox82

Member
It's impossible to win where the GamerGate discussion is concerned.

On one side are the worst elements of the internet on 4chan, 8chan, reddit and elsewhere who've adopted the movement to voice their own personal hatred, biases, ignorance and/or insecurities.

On the other side are the uber-liberal radical feminists and "social justice warrior's" who live in a state perpetual victimhood and post stuff like this; just another flavor of hate dressed up to look like tolerance and equality.

Any honorable intentions associated with GamerGate have long been rendered impotent by the worst elements of either side and there's no way to take a position without being attacked by those who've already chosen a side.

If there are serious concerns about journalistic malpractice that need to be voiced, there are better ways to do this than jump on the tainted GamerGate bandwagon. Continuing to give either side the exorbitant amount of attention that they're currently getting is just perpetuating the chaos. 4chan and SJWs both thrive off of attention, positive or negative, and the only way to remove them from the conversation is to ignore them and divert the attention to more constructive avenues of discussion. Until this happens, everyone in the middle will just continue to get caught in the crossfire. Every new voices in the discussion just adds more noise. Speaking to those who believe there are legitimate issues to be addressed, sometimes it's better just to cut your losses and focus on new things without the baggage of the old dragging you down.

That's just my two cents.

Both sides argument again? PLZ stop with this.
 
My issue with your example is that it seems to be a post on someone's own site stating "I hate you. You've hurt me. Please god just leave me alone."

That's hugely different than issuing death threats, doxxing, and harassing someone because you don't like what they are saying.

If she was posting that on, say, Total Biscuit's site and following it with other messages increasing in hatred and fervor, I could see your point.

But honestly, after watching GamerGate, I don't fault her at all.

She posted this long before GamerGate even happened, as far back as June 23rd, at least.

You seem to be saying here that both the perpetrator and the victim are equally in the wrong. That's what I am getting from your comment chain.

Am I reading this wrong?

Yes.

I'm not drawing a false equivalence argument. I'm saying there are people on both side who've jumped on the bandwagon and turned this into a debate about them more than it's about the original parties involved.

I've said all I'm willing to on the matter, for now. Cheers.
 

Raggie

Member
On the other side are the uber-liberal radical feminists and "social justice warrior's" who live in a state perpetual victimhood and post stuff like this; just another flavor of hate dressed up to look like tolerance and equality.

It's funny how I keep seeing claims that some sort of a cult of "uber-liberal radical feminists" are taking over. Where? Seriously, where are they? It must be the most devious army ever since you don't see them anywhere. It says something that the example above (that has nothing to do with GGate) had to be fetched with Wayback Machine, and then it's not even close to the sexism you see Gators spouting every damn day.

Gamersgate is a response to an imaginary first world problem.
 

vcc

Member
You mean this post he appears to have left on his Facebook after recruiting people to infiltrate and sabotage the #gamergate movement?

You can't really undermine a group who has 4chan trolls undermining it to start with. A lot of #GG doesn't care about the topic it's just cover to troll people. #GG or otherwise. So trying to undermine that is trying to make the ocean salty.
 

Omnipunctual Godot

Gold Member
Can't handle all these social junior warriors making bold claims.


On a brighter note, here's an article about fun colorful infographs that make my system/statistic-obsessed brain happy: http://www.brianckeegan.com/2014/10/my-15-minutes-of-fame-as-a-b-list-gamergate-celebrity/



/edit

Is that Nick Denton post even real? I saw a few people mention it barely resembles his writing style at all. Make sure to doublecheck sources on stuff like that.
Yes, that's why I wrote "appears." This is what I thought the post I quoted was referencing.
 

Omnipunctual Godot

Gold Member
You can't really undermine a group who has 4chan trolls undermining it to start with. A lot of #GG doesn't care about the topic it's just cover to troll people. #GG or otherwise. So trying to undermine that is trying to make the ocean salty.
If the post really is Denton's, are you honestly justifying this tactic from the proprietor of a major media outlet? I would really hope not.
 
The only time I heard radical feminists pop up was when a confused GGer said TERFs were the good guys.

(to give GG credit: quite a few people pointed out he was being a tool.)
 

vcc

Member
If the post really is Denton's, are you honestly justifying this tactic from the proprietor of a major media outlet? I would really hope not.

I have no idea who Denton is. I'm saying it's futile to attempt anything like that since #GG at the onset has participants who are out to undermine #GG. That's the nature of 4chan.
 

vcc

Member
Why stop? Prominent #gamergate figures have been doxxed, threatened, and swatted also.

Swatted? When?

Also the afore mentioned 4chan element. Yeah. They're in it for the lolz; fromt eh start of the X-gate thing. They've been undermining #GG since the start as part of #GG and may be one of the core reasons no one takes #GG seriously.
 

Omnipunctual Godot

Gold Member
I have no idea who Denton is. I'm saying it's futile to attempt anything like that since #GG at the onset has participants who are out to undermine #GG. That's the nature of 4chan.
I may have misunderstood, so thank you for clarifying. If that Facebook post is legitimate, no one should be condoning it.
 
Why stop? Prominent #gamergate figures have been doxxed, threatened, and swatted also.
Because it's been shown to be a poor argument multiple times. It doesn't add anything to the discussion. There really aren't two sides, unless you consider "attacker" and "victim" to be two sides of equal blame.
 

Oersted

Member
Swatted? When?

Also the afore mentioned 4chan element. Yeah. They're in it for the lolz; fromt eh start of the X-gate thing. They've been undermining #GG since the start as part of #GG and may be one of the core reasons no one takes #GG seriously.

Gamergate was undermined when it became a lie-based harassment campaign against an indie developer. So somewhere right from the start.
 
First, the true brilliance would be if that fb post is real, but he actually did nothing. A real "Monsters are Due on Maple Street" maneuver. Second, what's wrong with condoning the disruption of a bunch of duplicitous assholes who have been harassing people and spreading lies?
 

vcc

Member
I may have misunderstood, so thank you for clarifying. If that Facebook post is legitimate, no one should be condoning it.

I don't understand how you can leap to the conclusion I'm 'defending' that image from pointing out what the image implies is a futile effort.

Also, you're treating it like everyone should care. Real or not it's just more bullshit on this massive pile of bullshit known as #GamerGate.
 
I have no idea who Denton is. I'm saying it's futile to attempt anything like that since #GG at the onset has participants who are out to undermine #GG. That's the nature of 4chan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Denton

^ easy enough answer.


Honestly though, I can find absolutely no confirmation of why Denton's supposed villain rant is real.
Looking on the twitter feed I just see a bunch of clowns celebrating they have "proof" of Gawker villainy:

https://twitter.com/search?q=denton&src=typd
 

Omnipunctual Godot

Gold Member
I don't understand how you can leap to the conclusion I'm 'defending' that image from pointing out what the image implies is a futile effort.

Also, you're treating it like everyone should care. Real or not it's just more bullshit on this massive pile of bullshit known as #GamerGate.
I think that if it is real, it would definitely be a large piece of evidence for the corruption in games journalism argument, which is the reason why many people support #gamergate.
 
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