hmm... classic #GG.
- Present wild accusation as fact.
- Evidence/Analysis comes out that it's mostly or completely not true.
- Backpedal and claim you were only presenting possible evidence
- repeat
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#GamerGate thread 2: it's about feminism in games journalism
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hmm... classic #GG.
I love the response to this.
"WHOA WHOA WHOA?!? Why are you upset? It couldn't be the headline that says that you support doxxing and hate speech is it? We AGREE on SO MUCH but one thing makes you go off on us on Twitter?!?"
Thank god for the internet, because without, these people would be laughed out of every television production house in the northern hemisphere.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Aw, geez....
If I got mad at everyone who was really mean to me, I'd become a mean person. :S
Neoriceisgood
Member
From what I understand, Arthur once said that anyone who posts on a "RAT forum" needs to be doxxed.
RAT forums for those not in the know, are data theft/blackmailing websites.
(The reason David asks about extremely specific tweets like this is, of course, because he directly loads his interview questions from GG's input.)
RAT forums for those not in the know, are data theft/blackmailing websites.
(The reason David asks about extremely specific tweets like this is, of course, because he directly loads his interview questions from GG's input.)
There's nothing wrong with being a mean person. You can be a mean person and still be fair and just.
After 2-3 months of this, I sick of this malformed stalemate. It sucks to be powerless to a vocal minority so devoid of any reading or critical thinking skills beyond that there can't even be a good discussion on it with any sane "GG" person. The whole "SJW" rhetoric is such bullshit, and worse is probably the idea that this movement can "win." I am literally at loss of what to say about GG, except the fact that is piled on more shit that Dragon Age 2.
In a sense, GG is over. Considering GG is shuned so much so that anyone bringing up "ethics in games" at any gaming convention would just be laughed at, GG holds no credible merit. But these people will always exist, which will always fucking scare me.
Also the "both sides" argument is trash. Don't try to justify harassment on both sides when the start of this movement was judging and Doxxing a game dev who supposedly slept with someone.
And I'm not suprised TB is gross, considering he censored Shawn Elliott on twitter via the "TotalBiscuit" brand. Funny for how a guy who wants "ethics," he's probably doing it purely for the hits and cash.
In a sense, GG is over. Considering GG is shuned so much so that anyone bringing up "ethics in games" at any gaming convention would just be laughed at, GG holds no credible merit. But these people will always exist, which will always fucking scare me.
Also the "both sides" argument is trash. Don't try to justify harassment on both sides when the start of this movement was judging and Doxxing a game dev who supposedly slept with someone.
And I'm not suprised TB is gross, considering he censored Shawn Elliott on twitter via the "TotalBiscuit" brand. Funny for how a guy who wants "ethics," he's probably doing it purely for the hits and cash.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
Can you be anymore condescending? It's pretty gross behavior, frankly. I don't feel comfortable enough to make lists about "classic anti-GGer" behavior here, I would think that sort of thing would be frowned upon in what is supposed to be civil discussion.
Also, your first point is factually incorrect, and I've stated why about three separate times in the last hour.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Oh, I agree! But at the same time, there's a certain point where I can't help but despise people. Cernovich was the first one that came to mind in this case. Fat couch guy and white supremecist on paper guy are too comical for me to despise.
WTF even is this I don't even
I keep seeing Total Biscuit talk about how outraged he is at 'being called dead' and how the suspicious timing suggests they secretly coordinated this 'attack on gamers' to maximize the power of this death spell by hitting all at the same time and I'm just... W. T. F. I just can't believe he's arguing this in good faith any more.
Does he actually feel that way about a bunch of articles that are all citing or linking to the original, a bunch of blogs doing a 'take' on another is something you see every day on the internet. (Roundup of the articles in this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=132616610&postcount=7856 Seriously look at this list.)
The RPS 'attack' is literally a single sentence and a quoted paragraph: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/01/the-monday-papers-4/ but that's enough to have people organize campaigns to email RPS sponsors to tell them if they don't pull advertisement from RPS, they will no longer by their products. Rock Paper Shotgun is trying to kill gamers!
For people in this thread who are really angry at being called dead, I really urge to watch the notorious game-haters Extra Credits make the same argument in 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HXJLTtMIHU&t=2m5s They say that gaming would be better off without the 'gamer' label which is defined by a stereotype. Then go back and read those 10 articles. Really. A lot of us, me included, felt pretty distant from the 'gamer' label after seeing Five Guys blow up all over mainstream gaming communities.
Does he actually feel that way about a bunch of articles that are all citing or linking to the original, a bunch of blogs doing a 'take' on another is something you see every day on the internet. (Roundup of the articles in this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=132616610&postcount=7856 Seriously look at this list.)
The RPS 'attack' is literally a single sentence and a quoted paragraph: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/01/the-monday-papers-4/ but that's enough to have people organize campaigns to email RPS sponsors to tell them if they don't pull advertisement from RPS, they will no longer by their products. Rock Paper Shotgun is trying to kill gamers!
For people in this thread who are really angry at being called dead, I really urge to watch the notorious game-haters Extra Credits make the same argument in 2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HXJLTtMIHU&t=2m5s They say that gaming would be better off without the 'gamer' label which is defined by a stereotype. Then go back and read those 10 articles. Really. A lot of us, me included, felt pretty distant from the 'gamer' label after seeing Five Guys blow up all over mainstream gaming communities.
Yep, let's keep it civil. He was originally responding to a post I made thinking I was referring to that facebook post, I didn't actually know that existed just that people were talking about Denton infiltrating them. I'm glad he shared it so that I could have a reference for the discussion I mentioned.
That it's fake is weird enough, but that it's fake and different people think it's part of a larger conspiracy and that the 8chan guy verified it's authenticity before it was shown to be a lie is just another part of this circus of wonders that is somehow related to ethics in game journalism.
partyphone
Banned
it's pretty close to a lethal dose of irony. gamergaters claiming that because there are women and people of color you can't use women and people of color as a shield for anti-gamergate.
Neoriceisgood
Member
A bunch of [not cis white men] who:
1. claim to be "sick" of being used as a shield by ... idk, sjws? (because "sjw" = all white men, according to some art I've seen made by GG)
2. Show how sick they are of this treatment by acting like a shield for GG.
Your behavior has earned my condescension. The tactics you are using (consciously or unconsciously) are extremely transparent.
You're now playing the victim. You're going to be mortified that I'd be so mean to someone like you who is just an impartial third party out to seek the truth.
Gosh. How is an impartial and earnest person like yourself supposed to live with the weight of my accusations.
Please tell me more about how I equate the two. I love hearing how your defense must paint anyone who dares disagree with you or points out the flaw in people saying in this thread "show us proof that anti-GG did something bad" must obviously equate the two. That's a load of crap, and I think I speak for more than myself when I say I'm getting tired of people who are so radicalized trying to immediately paint any pointing out of anti-GG doing something not 100% ethical as "oh you are saying the two are equal hur hur hur". No. No one has said that here. Nowhere in my statements is that even implied.
Screw you. You have no right to put words in my mouth, or ascribe my motivation. There is no way on earth doxxing someone is equal to freaking threatening someone at a convention, or threatening a school shooting. So screw you for having the lack of empathy and being so hellbent on demonization that anyone who dares point anything out that doesn't fit your specific worldview must be painted as evil incarnate.
A-freaking-men. I've seen what happens when folks do eye for an eye. It...ends poorly. Thankfully the Anti-GG crowd have stayed away from that for the most part.
Ditto. I don't get why we would want to throw a fit about more people coming into our world. That's what we have wanted for so damn long, isn't it? To be sort of accepted for our weird (at the time) form of entertainment?? Like, growing up we all joked about how there are no women in our culture and how much that sucked. Now they want to come and we freak out??? I want to like, reach out and smack all of them.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Woah the Arthur Chu interview is nearly 40 minutes?
I agree with this. I think this is magnified in the gaming community itself and it is worse for women.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
So I know the proper way to respond to this, what would you see as a "systemic hate for women"?
partyphone
Banned
haha. pakman is such an opportunistic shit.
Beelzebufo
Banned
If only twitter had italics. Maybe it's supposed to be talking to SJWs, saying #NotYourShield, since they're already being used by #GamerGate.
I would see it as majority of a community that had a dislike of women simply because they are women.
whelp
watching it
starts off civil enough
Arthur calls him out on his behaviour on Zoe
Parkman says hes a twitter noob and apologizes for any percieved-
nevermind I'm giving up there
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
The ego on this guy.
Hahah! Totalbiscuit is everywhere and everything. It really just keeps getting more and more ridiculous with him though.
Yep, pretty gross.
Well at least GamerGate should be against it because they hate 'click bait' style headlines in their journalism, right?
The culture of gaming is pretty well known for branding women as "non-gamers," fake gamers, attention whores or manipulators.
I feel like that says it all. :\
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
That's not what systemic means. Systemic would be a built in mechanism. As in say, the idea of the loud minority is a default feature that is just accepted. A large portion of those that aren't directly affected by this feature ignore it because it's "just the way things are". This causes those that are directly affected by it to become othered because they aren't seen as default features of the community, they have to work around the misogyny.
Gamergate started as extreme harassment campaign against women and feminists. Anti-GG actions have been a response, with the worst thing being... doxxing?
QuantumZebra
Member
Yep the difference in how Felicia Day and Chris Kluwe were treated is all you need to know
Apparently there is an auto-blocklist being made to block pro GG accounts?
15000+ accounts and counting
15000+ accounts and counting
Wil Wheaton on GamerGate:
http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue...-reddit-gamergate/?tw=dd#sthash.KuBODKyt.dpuf
http://kernelmag.dailydot.com/issue...-reddit-gamergate/?tw=dd#sthash.KuBODKyt.dpuf
I'd just like to point out you haven't been able to. Boogie got doxxed around the same time he was posting in the GG thread on GAF, true.
...What makes you think it was GAFfers who doxxed him rather than other GGers punishing him for insufficient ideological purity?
The problem with this idea, and the part where the false equivalence becomes apparent, is that anti-GG does not exist. I highly doubt many people posting in this thread identify with that label. There are no sekrit anti-GG forums where people plan out who should be harassed next and post other people's personal information.
Which I completely agree with. (Well, it's probably now more of a culture war thing, but I'd refer back to the Vox & PopeHat articles for that)
But saying that I think they're equal in order to demonize me because I called folks out who were saying that Anti-GG did "nothing"? That's bullshit. You don't get to ascribe my thoughts on all this because heaven forbid our side do anything wrong. We're slipping into the same bullshit rhetorical tactics the GG'ers have been using all this time; and we have no need to because we're decent human beings on the side of equality. We don't need to turn into dicks as well.
..the entire thing with Felicia Day just disgusts me. Someone who was a gamer long before it was a cool thing to be and helped make gaming mainstream by taking a huge risk with the Guild getting doxxed is ...ugh. Ugh.
He seems like an ethical journalist. I'm sure gamergate will rally around him. I wonder if they've dubbed him Based Journalist yet.
Reading the TB post about how #GamerGate is good because they donated to TFYC.. it just hit me how totally messed up that is.
To show #GamerGate isn't about the harassment of Zoe Quinn... people donated to a charity* because it was saying bad things about Zoe Quinn.
*(not actually a charity)
To show #GamerGate isn't about the harassment of Zoe Quinn... people donated to a charity* because it was saying bad things about Zoe Quinn.
*(not actually a charity)
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
How can people still be pushing two sides bullshit and uninformed, easily debunked arguments this far into it
Scust
Scust
Ya, your right here.
Galactic Fork said:
I think your right in the loud minority is accepted as "impossible to change".
What is anti-gg anyway? I'm also strongly anti-neonazi. If a neonazi gets murdered tonight, is that blood somehow on my hands as well?
Seeing as the meter long boner GG is having for anyone who even remotely agrees with them, despite their past ideological stances (see: Nero) makes me think it would be odd for them to do so. I don't think anyone on GAF actually doxxed him; I'd like to think no one here is that much of an asshole.
To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be surprised if a chunk of the doxxing all-around is just 4chan causing chaos because they can. Weren't there chat logs specifically saying their goal was to cause chaos on both sides? But since many of the doxxes (including Felicia Day) haven't been claimed by anyone, I'm going to assume that people are doxxing the side that they are opposed to. (Hence the assumption that Brianna Wu, Maddy Myers, Felicia Day, were doxxed by crazy mofos in GG).
I'm just using anti-GG as a catch all term for those of us that think GG is insane and don't agree with it. Hell, so much of our derision for GG is based on the fact that they really don't have a point or any real goals besides "we don't like feminism in our video games and we're terrified it might start to come into them". I mean no equivalence in terms of tactics, planning, etc. Though it might not be a bad idea for those of us who feel GG is a bad thing to also email advertisers & developers and tell them how much we do like adding diversity to games.
I think it's the (stupid) belief that the gaming "sjw" media are a bunch of white men claiming to be a voice for women and minorities, using them as a platform to show off how morally superior they are. So if you were against the gaming "sjw" media, you would be against women and minorities.
So what #notyourshield does is say that #gamergate is an issue that concerns minorities and women as well, and has their support. I've seen some even claim that #gamergate HAS more minorities and women in it than the organizations they're attacking, and that #gamergate is the true voice of the minority.
it's real dumb
edit: Gaf didn't doxx boogey, a bunch of ex-goons did.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Was that ever confirmed? I saw people claim it came from either SA or Reddit, but never quite understood how they figured.
Also I just finished the Pakman & Arthur video. Arthur pretty much hit the nail on the head that Pakman's just oblivious to context to a degree where it's harmful.
Also interesting how Pakman's more interested in talking about Arthur than GG lol, did he even ask a single GG related question?
partyphone
Banned
they only talked about gamergate when Arthur brought it up. pakman is hella transparent.
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