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343 Industries' Josh Holmes explains design decisions in Halo 5
- Thread starter Killer
- Start date
No, I was saying the Beta will get positive and negative feedback. I'm pretty sure we'll see people making posts about why a certain feature is bad for Halo or why another one is good.
Possible source on ADS:
Linky: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-11-11-smart-scoping-with-halo-5-guardians-multiplayer-beta
eurogamer said:
Linky: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-11-11-smart-scoping-with-halo-5-guardians-multiplayer-beta
Don't think anyone prefers the scope, just don't think it's as bad as some make it seem.
On a positive, it's at least more visually pleasing for Twitch streams.
i prefer the look, despite it obscuring the view. since its not ADS in the traditional since, i'm very happy with the change
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
I was just watching a full match of Halo 5 and holy shit, the SMG looks so overpowered. Reminds me of the SAW, which is bad.
Twilight Gap
Member
nothing new. if you wanted to hit anything with an AR at medium distance, you'd burst fire. otherwise your bullets are going around your target due to the spread.
tighter spread when scoped was in Reach and was one of the few things that made sense with its gunplay and terrible bloom system. There weren't many guns that could take advantage of it though because it was only on headshot weapons.
Lore and immersion can be the wrong approach.
343 for some odd reason felt they had to waste time giving multiplayer a story and are continuing with Halo 5. Why that matters over maps and game play, I've got no idea.
Immersion is a fine line and one that easily leads to game play being restricted and hampered because it looks cool or this should happen because non game play reasons rather than is this fun, balanced etc.
I'm not against changes in Halo but only for the better.
If Halo Big Team Battle was kinda like Battlefield with less unlock nonsense, hell yes. Make Halo Battlefield with ODSTs etc. oh wait, 343 made jock Spartans instead. Solution, don't bow to lore, make a fun game!
343 for some odd reason felt they had to waste time giving multiplayer a story and are continuing with Halo 5. Why that matters over maps and game play, I've got no idea.
Immersion is a fine line and one that easily leads to game play being restricted and hampered because it looks cool or this should happen because non game play reasons rather than is this fun, balanced etc.
I'm not against changes in Halo but only for the better.
If Halo Big Team Battle was kinda like Battlefield with less unlock nonsense, hell yes. Make Halo Battlefield with ODSTs etc. oh wait, 343 made jock Spartans instead. Solution, don't bow to lore, make a fun game!
It looks nice, but compared to what we had before, it feels like a step back. It makes sense for weapons that have scopes to remain as they were; even makes more sense from a lore perspective.
I'm cool with a zoom-in for automatic weapons though. Not sure how I feel about the spread being tighter, if that eurogamer article is to be believed...
Beerculies
Neo Member
343 is in a catch 22, if they make the same game as Halo 3 or Halo 2 (witch is what the vocal minority of people wanted) they will cry foul and say its a re-hash.
They then try to innovate and add things to the game, and then take out things that didn't work (kits) and people complain its not "Halo".
The MCC exists for the people who want "Halo" and Halo 5 will exist for people who want an evolved Halo.
I have no idea if it will be good but from the videos i have watched and the passion the studio shows i expect the game looks to be really good and i will pick it up (a couple days after launch).
They then try to innovate and add things to the game, and then take out things that didn't work (kits) and people complain its not "Halo".
The MCC exists for the people who want "Halo" and Halo 5 will exist for people who want an evolved Halo.
I have no idea if it will be good but from the videos i have watched and the passion the studio shows i expect the game looks to be really good and i will pick it up (a couple days after launch).
I haven't played Reach, but I thought the argument at hand was that ADS didn't give any bonuses to aim, etc over non ADS. But the article clearly suggest that ADS gives you a reduced bullet spread which is a bonus compared to hip firing.
But I.. I trusted you 343i..
But I.. I trusted you 343i..
That was your first mistake.
Do you mean lines of sight being obstructed by actual map geometry? Or stuff like lighting?
DieEnteWurzel
Member
Why would anyone want a wider spread, in a fps, ever?
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
Wh...why 343? Why?
lighting. i hated having visibility turn to shit and having players be tough to spot from certain angles and in certain places in h4. haven is a good example of this. where bungie always held back from graphical splendor in MP for the sake of visibility, 343i has embraced it and no one seems to care.
Diablohead
Member
Halo always had a more narrow spread when scoped, no? it was just minor compared to other games, and I mean minor like pixels.
Adding a zoom to the AR should have ticked off they were doing something bad.
Adding a zoom to the AR should have ticked off they were doing something bad.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Not so much. They could keep the classic, core gameplay of Halo intact and innovate in other areas.
Also, I wouldn't necessarily describe attempts to cram gameplay elements from other popular FPS's into Halo as "innovating".
Lighting was really terrible in Halo 4, I agree. So many maps, were you couldn't see as much as you should be able to. Haven was one of the worst offenders, but nothing beats this: http://i3.minus.com/jbxfbRwqGgH2jW.png
Wider spread as less accurate than smart scope?
It's not like the bullets will be flying to the left or right of the spartan.
Twilight Gap
Member
I thought issue was about penalties, not bonuses. Halo 5's ADS doesn't have movement or hipfire accuracy penalties.
The scope is supposed to allow you to combat players at range, and a tighter spread facilitates that. Otherwise, you're simply magnifying the view.
It should be balanced with descope in the game. Weapons will of course need tweaking so that they don't turn into automatic snipers, but if there's no bonus at all (even a negligible one) it'd only further show how unnecessary changing the scope is in the first place.
And I asked someone else this same question, how so?
Zoom always had longer aim assist range than hip-fire, and sometimes less spread. It probably doesn't make sense for SMG&AR to have longer aim assist range when scoped because they have huge spread. Zoom always had advantage over hipfire, and so should Smart Scope.
I don't understand the hate against H5's ADS here. It doesn't slow you down, and you'll be descoped when shot. Even ADSing in CoD feels good when you equip Stalker perk that allows you to move at full speed while ADSing. And view obstruction with gun and tunnel vision FoV, well there should be a downside to having more accuracy.
This is a fair point and people can discuss the points you made above, but I was addressing post similar to these
I've never had much of an issue with visibility, but I can see how that could be a hindrance, and I don't think you're the only one I've seen take an issue with the game's lighting.
Latvian Hitman
Member
That's 343i's job, not mine. Based on early feedback, how would you say they're doing?
A. A Ha. A Ha Ha. A Hahahahahaha
killer rin
Member
So yeah, we're going to have to go full on complaining about ADS once the beta comes out, right? That sounds completely terrible from a gameplay perspective.
Oh, Please. Nothing about ADS is Canonological unless we are playing as a regular ol'Marine.
Don't have any complaints as stated before. The things that were truly detrimental to H4 are all gone in H5.
For the last god damn time. Nobody wants the same game as Halo 2 or 3. It isn't the vocal minority either that against changes that go against the core philosophy of Halo. Innovating isn't doing things that are popular and expected.
Could I make suggestions on what they could do or go? I would say expand more on weapons, equipment (yes equipment), and grenades. There is a lot that can be done to all 3 yet we haven't really seen much expanded on them since Halo 3.
That game doesn't sound like it would be much different from H3.
JonathanPower
Member
When they talk about things like immersion, they may be referring to the campaign.
Latvian Hitman
Member
I assume you mean equal starts, which I'm happy about as well. Sprint and ADS, with default COD/Battlefield controller mapping, I'm not very happy about.
Sprint doesn't bother me. Not gonna say it improves gameplay, but it does speed the encounter time since base movement in Halo has always been slow.
ADS/Smart Scope...whatever you want to call it I'm going to assume works the same way as zoom minus the cosmetic change. If there are options for clicking the RS for it, it's going to be a toggle option instead of hold to zoom.
CreateNowSleepLater
Member
On the maps they have shown. Again, typically 343 Halo maps tend to be bigger. Remember, the one map is a Forge map they keep showing.
Abinash117
Member
Zoom made the the reticule smaller so it seems the bloom is tightened, but in halo 5 the reticule doesn't look like it gets smaller for the autos and the bloom does not expand much. Watching the gameplay when people use the smart scope you can see the bloom is really tight.
MeachTheMonster
Banned
Going back and playing the classic halo games, sprint is sorely missing. I welcome the addition. Happy with some of the extra mobility options too. I'm indifferent about ads. Will wait to see how it feels before making judgment.
I hope the change the sniper design. It looks awful. Didn't like the h4 sniper design.
Otherwise, I really hope we are in for a treat.
Here is hoping for sandbox, open big campaign experience and great multiplayer. No linear campaign and lots of chitty chat chief.
No showing of MC face. Don't ruin the experience God damit. Feels like we are dealing with amateurs here.
Who the hell thought of that?
Sorry, I always get carried away when I remember the awful mistakes in H4.
Oh and I don't know how this guy still has a job.
If they fail with this one, than there is no coming back.
Bag'em and tag'em.
Otherwise, I really hope we are in for a treat.
Here is hoping for sandbox, open big campaign experience and great multiplayer. No linear campaign and lots of chitty chat chief.
No showing of MC face. Don't ruin the experience God damit. Feels like we are dealing with amateurs here.
Who the hell thought of that?
Sorry, I always get carried away when I remember the awful mistakes in H4.
Oh and I don't know how this guy still has a job.
If they fail with this one, than there is no coming back.
Bag'em and tag'em.
Latvian Hitman
Member
The sprint thing has been driven into the ground, so I'm not going to rehash all that.
My real problem with ADS and with holding LT being default is that we're going to wind up with babbies running around with AR's and SMG's playing this game like it's Destiny/COD/Titanfall. Sure- veteran players will probably crap on them for it, but it's still going to muck the flow of the game up.
RSB
Banned
The solution to a slow base movement speed is increasing the base movement speed, not adding sprint.
I don't remember this at all. On the guns that could modify the spread, it was based on your rate of fire rather than scope state.
You can burst the AR in Halo 3 and Reach and it has an actual different spread than just holding the trigger. I got annoyingly good at burst firing the AR in Reach.
Halo 1's pistol changed it's spread depending on if you pressed the trigger (zero) or just held it (all over the place).
Halo 2's pistol changes it's bloom depending on RoF.
Halo 3's carbine blooms out when fired fast, but that's also RoF and not scope state.
What might have FELT like tighter grouping was that zooming at a distance gave you more aim friction/assist on distant targets and the red reticule also triggered bullet magnetism (bullets are bent towards your target, very evident in the Reach NB Needle Rifle)
Which if this is true, ADSing definitely has benefit in Halo 5, especially if the AR ADS imitates burst firing in previous games but at full auto.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Not if the long TTK is still there.
Funny how not many seem to forget that the one thing that hasn't changed in Halo is the TTK. Halo 5 could be Halo 2 with Halo 5 visuals and the MP wouldn't be that much more popular because the TTK is still too long in this franchise.
It's the main reason you'll never see Halo be as popular as it once was. Name me another major online console shooter with a TTK anywhere near as long as Halo's.
The TTK is only long if you suck. Isn't your favorite gametype Swat? Not surprising.