Dead_Pixel
Banned
I had the same thought when they first announced SSB4...
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Legend of Zelda Wii U Gameplay Demo
- Thread starter zakislam
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I had the same thought when they first announced SSB4...
I personally liked the ALBW dungeons. For me, Zelda dungeons are less about the puzzles and more about the overall mechanism that brings you to the final door. Don't know how to put it in words, but 2/3 of WW dungeons in comparison felt unsatisfying.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Exactly thats why i think its gonna stay lol
Muffdraul
Member
Bah, there's no way it's not going to eventually be "The Legend of Zelda: Fapping Frenzy" or whatever. They announced "Zelda Wii" about a year before they revealed it was called "Skyward Sword."
MisterGrey3000
Member
The reason why people complain about four dungeons in MM is because "dungeoning" in Zelda is what platforming is to Mario; when the dungeons/dungeon-like areas are lackluster people will notice.
MM has a real problem with balance, and this could have easily been solved if they had extended the game's dev time and made it the NGC's first Zelda title instead of rushing it to the market to capitalize on OoT's success.
Woodfall temple is rudimentary and barely makes use of it's mask (But I really don't blame them the Deku mask is quite boring mechanically. I'll never understand why it was approved.)
Snow Peak is pretty well designed and straightforward; it makes good use of the Goron mask but it doesn't do anything interesting or inventive mechanically until you get to Ghot. It's still basic stuff and your basically halfway done with the game at that point.
Great Bay Temple is a frustrating mess that's annoying to navigate and lacks interesting puzzles; it also has a weird difficulty spike in the combat that feels out of place especially considering that the next temple isn't anywhere near as difficult.
Stone Tower is very well designed, I can't really fault it; it's a level with inventive/complex challenges and great pacing but it makes you wish they took the time to make the other three dungeons match it's quality.
Also, tbqh, while the sidequest do add a lot to the narrative and thematic elements they're all pretty standard fair as far as Zelda sidequest go; barring the Kefei and Anju quest that basically turns into a cool little mini-dungeon they're not that noteworthy from a design perspective and many of the important non-dungeon events are ridiculously tedious (Like that "beneath the well" segment, that was just dumb)
On the subject of the mask, the majority of them were useless and uninspired; many of them added nothing of significant value to the game and could have easily been cut. The bomb mask being the worst offender imo.
I don't know, I'm not really that big on that game in general. I feel like all of the things that make it "special" (mainly it's narrative and thematic elements) have already been outdone by the likes of WW, TP, ST, and SS.
But hey if you love it, keep on keepin' on.
Edit: I will admit that it does have it's own unique atmosphere that's very charming/engaging and atypical for Zelda.
TheMoon
Member
No, they just showed the artwork in 2009. Then in 2010 came the full reveal.
Muffdraul
Member
Not gonna bother quibbling over when the first screens or footage was shown. It was officially announced at E3 2009 as "The Legend of Zelda for Wii" and it wasn't until the next E3 that they gave the full name.
Huh, I actually really liked Great Bay and Snowpeak. The one thing I do agree with your assessment is Woodfall, but even then I thought it was a step above all 1st dungeons in Zelda at that point.
MisterGrey3000
Member
I don't know, I actually feel as though the great Deku tree was much more well designed intro dungeon (I really liked the puzzle that involved Link using gravity and his weight to reach the lower levels of the dungeon) and at the same time I feel it's more acceptable seeing as OoT had way more than four dungeons.
Also, I liked Snowpeak as well but I still feel it was kind of basic for what was basically the halfway point in the game's main quest.
Great Bay though...I'll never be able to form a logical understanding for why anyone would like that level...it's like they took all of the worst elements from the Water Temple and made them even more annoying.
I actually enjoyed the water temple... *looks embarassed*
MisterGrey3000
Member
lol
I enjoyed certain elements within it; there were some really inventive well-designed puzzles/obstacles here and there, and the two boss encounters (Shadow Link and that water tentacle...thing..) were superb.
It really was just the navigational stuff that got on my nerves; maze-like design is rarely fun to me and it doesn't help that Link had to slowly trot through most of the level thanks to the iron boots.
:/
As for the Woodfall temple, I liked the idea of having to eventually make the flower work in order to clean up the water. I don't always look for puzzles in a dungeon, for me it is also about the mechanisms. That said, despite how easy Inside Deku Tree is, it is a great dungeon. I also love the concept of falling towards the center to break the spider web.
I feel like going back to pressing b to attack is going back as far as gameplay. Yes, I actually was one of the ones that really enjoyed SS and had no problems at all with the controls, it worked just fine with me and I remember playing it and thinking 'man there's no going back to traditional controls '
MisterGrey3000
Member
You're not alone my friend.
I would have loved for Zelda:U to have refined/fixed/added to the motion controlled mechanics and dungeon-like overworld design in Skyward Sword.
Feels like they're just completely abandoning everything they learned in that game for no real reason and it's frustrating to me.
I would also like to justify my love of the Great Bay. At its core, the concept is quiet simple, but really neat. Get the water moving through the tubes. Progress can only happen by that. The second room of the dungeon is there to introduce you to that concept. And you can see the tubes change slightly to indicate that water is going through it. What you have to do is then to follow it. The boss is only accessible by moving water to the boss room so that you can get the water to shoot out and get across the gap. Furthermore, I love the concept that changing the water current allows you to access different rooms out of the same corridor. Finally, the ice arrow is so cool.
At first glance, the dungeon seems labyrinthine, but it is actually a lot more ordered than water temple in my opinion. One central core with rooms at opposite end of each other. In the water part of the core, two corridors each floor, a total of four. But only one is accessible per floor at one direction of the current, and the other is the exit. When current reverses, the exit becomes the entrance and the entrance becomes the exit. There is a logic to the whole proceeding that I find absent in water temple.
At first glance, the dungeon seems labyrinthine, but it is actually a lot more ordered than water temple in my opinion. One central core with rooms at opposite end of each other. In the water part of the core, two corridors each floor, a total of four. But only one is accessible per floor at one direction of the current, and the other is the exit. When current reverses, the exit becomes the entrance and the entrance becomes the exit. There is a logic to the whole proceeding that I find absent in water temple.
I wish they would use the motion control too. It was the first time I actually looked forward to combat in a Zelda game.
Yeah I don't understand really. Maybe keep everything else with normal controls, the horse etc can just be controlled normally, but definitely the sword play should still be motion. For the first time the enemies felt like a challenge and every combat scenario felt meaningful and it had strategy involved. Now I'm sure I'll see a monster, spam b and automatically win
I'm sure this is because the general public, supposedly didn't like it
Wii u is even compatible with the wii mote. It's such a shame, because motion controls actually work perfect for certain games, should not be dismissed altogether. I even thought metroid prime trilogy was better thanks to the controls
Muffdraul
Member
Are there any Wii U games where you have to use the Wiimote?
No its always optional, as far as I know, I guess they can make it optional as well. Unfortunately if the game is not made around that, it won't be the same regardless. I also understand that this gen the gamepad is the new control option, and that's what they are working on which is of course understandable. I'm just saying that as far as gameplay, I felt SS had the most depth and I didn't want to go back to traditional controls
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Yeah I wouldnt know if they were rushed unless someone told me
I think your misquote here is misleading. They said:
Now with the hardware capabilities of the Wii U, what we did was we first started by saying well let's see what we can do if we take an entire world the size of the world from Twilight Princess and just try to make that as one area on the game.
They're talking about making TP's entire world one continuous area, not saying that it's one area of the map. He's saying the map is now one area instead of many. If anything he's saying the entire world of Zelda Wii U is comparable to the size of TP's world, or at least that's the size they started from.
Legend of Zelda: Horses
deltatheta
Member
You're right, I miswrote it.
Sorry for misleading people. Listening to it again, your interpretation is correct.
MrSaturn99
Member
Played through the Water Temple the other day and I still think it's super rad. The Iron Boots switching never bothered me at all.
The only thing I could maybe knock it for was placing the Song of Time stone right behind the
The temple was progressing rather naturally for me up until that point and consequently I spent nearly an hour looking for a stupid small key. I'd normally grant kudos for hiding it somewhere I'd never think to look, but those moments never fail to drive me insane.
Of course, the Forest Temple still reigns supreme as the OOT Dungeon champion. Quite possibly the greatest Zelda dungeon ever created.
The only thing I could maybe knock it for was placing the Song of Time stone right behind the
Longshot chest.
Of course, the Forest Temple still reigns supreme as the OOT Dungeon champion. Quite possibly the greatest Zelda dungeon ever created.
The song of time block behind the treasure is one of three areas in the water temple that I call the three points of evil. People in their first playthrough of the water temple will inevitably hit a snag on at least one of those three points. The other two being the bombable wall in the second floor of the vertical hallway, and the hole covered up by a platform inside the central pillar.
Oh yes, the forest temple is fantastic. It is my favorite dungeon in OoT no doubt about it.
SweetDonuts
Member
Talking of dungeons makes me wonder how beautiful and grand the upcoming ones will look, gets me hyped.
OOT is just chock full of solid dungeons. Once you become an adult, it's just amazing dungeon after amazing dungeon. That's why it's probably my favorite Zelda.
Well let's not get too excited until we see more of the world and its content. It is Nintendo, after all, and they may or may not fuck up these things.
Well, let's put it this way. Everytime I play a 3D Zelda game, and I need to get somewhere fast below me, I just jump off the cliff or whatever high place because I am not worried, since it does so little damage. So my bet is, the lasers don't hurt as much as it should. ^_^
Astral Dog
Member
I really hope the dungeons have memorable themes, not just aesthetic but music too, not like on twilight princess, but like the spirit temple, forest, wind, stone tower, earth temple, etc.
2D games also had good dungeon music, especially the oracles, four sword, and minish cap.
2D games also had good dungeon music, especially the oracles, four sword, and minish cap.
Orniletter
Banned
They aren't. They are clearly trying to find a nice balance between SS' densely packed dungeons-even-if-your-not-in-a-dungeon-structre and TP and OT' openness .
Motioncontrols....yeah, I liked them in SS but I don't need every new Zelds to be built around them, there are other ways to make third person combat interesting.
MisterGrey3000
Member
Pfffft...
Clearly my foot, nothing that's been shown so far resembles SS's dungeon-like overworld structure.
The world that they're showing right now looks more like a brother to TP's Hyrule and a 2nd cousin to Skyrim's...Skyrim.
I mean, if they show Link coming to a linear/semi-linear obstacle course like area before he can progress to a dungeon in a brand new trailer I'll happily concede but so far the overworld seems to function as scenery porn and nothing more.
Again, EAD3 is throwing great concepts/fully realized elements away for no reason and I find it irksome.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
We gotta see some more of the game first im sure the whole game wont be like SS but there will be some elements in somewhere.Pfffft...
Clearly my foot, nothing that's been shown so far resembles SS's dungeon-like overworld structure.
The world that they're showing right now looks more like a brother to TP's Hyrule and a 2nd cousin to Skyrim's...Skyrim.
I mean, if they show Link coming to a linear/semi-linear obstacle course like area before he can progress to a dungeon in a brand new trailer I'll happily concede but so far the overworld seems to function as scenery porn and nothing more.
Again, EAD3 is throwing great concepts/fully realized elements away for no reason and I find it irksome.
TheMoon
Member
Yea seriously, tesqui. WTF lol
And that's ignoring that Metal Gear is out next year. Year of the open world.
FF XV and Tales of Zestiria also have large worlds.
It isn't easy to make a big overworld that's as packed as SS' underworld, it would take a bajillion years to do that, not to mention that it would take forever to get anywhere.Pfffft...
Clearly my foot, nothing that's been shown so far resembles SS's dungeon-like overworld structure.
The world that they're showing right now looks more like a brother to TP's Hyrule and a 2nd cousin to Skyrim's...Skyrim.
I mean, if they show Link coming to a linear/semi-linear obstacle course like area before he can progress to a dungeon in a brand new trailer I'll happily concede but so far the overworld seems to function as scenery porn and nothing more.
Again, EAD3 is throwing great concepts/fully realized elements away for no reason and I find it irksome.
Developing overworlds isn't easy, there's a reason why there isn't a single game that does something like that.
In my opinion, if they're going for a sense of scale and if traveling is a big deal, the overworld can't be entirely like SS (and it wouldn't be anyway), it should have parts like SS of course, but it also needs breathing room.
We'll see what they come up with, big overworlds are a problem and I just hope they don't make a boring overworld like Skyrim's.
Well, They're rethinking conventions, right? And I've never seen explosions that big in Zelda before.
Zelda used to have a lot of invincible enemies. And the phantoms in PH, ST and SS were all invincible and could kill you in one hit. This monster could be a "chaser" type enemy who is really scary until you have the right means to kill it.
LegendofLex
Member
No reason?
Despite Nintendo having the biggest ever install base last generation, the Zelda games they released during that generation had a remarkably small sales footprint (relative to their footprint in previous generations, where Zelda was the best-selling game in the genre until GTA came along) - even while other action-adventure games were soaring (GTA obviously, and Skyrim sold more copies on any of the platforms it was released for than any Zelda game has sold ever) by going open world.
Surely this indicates to Nintendo that their strategy for Zelda has been a relatively poor one?
Well, considering the Sailcloth is in, jumping down from a high place is not really a problem
But, I believe at least the special enemies will be stronger
Yeah. When Nintendo placed Zelda into the casual category it destroyed half the fanbase. Most of what made OoT popular was the ambition and scope. As soon as Nintendo gave up on that, half of the fanbase basically moved on to the next "ambitious" thing.
:0
What I find irksome is that EAD3 threw Zelda's heritage into the garbage bin and, gradually, transformed the series into a linear, 3rd person puzzle game, with animu aesthetics, meaningless fetch-quests, ridiculous amount of handholding, and boring, super-relaxed, worlds that probably belong in an Animal Crossing game
I doubt they care.
It has become obvious by now that, somewhere within Nintendo's over-managed and overly centralized structure, certain higher-ups, are more concerned about forcing on people what they, personally, think that people "should" enjoy, than giving them something that actually resonates with them.
I doubt they care.
It has become obvious by now that, somewhere within Nintendo's over-managed and overly centralized structure, certain higher-ups, are more concerned about forcing on people what they, personally, think that people "should" enjoy, than giving them something that actually resonates with them.
I'm so glad you're here to tell us what should resonate with us.
What I find irksome is that EAD3 threw Zelda's heritage into the garbage bin and, gradually, transformed the series into a linear, 3rd person puzzle game, with animu aesthetics, meaningless fetch-quests, ridiculous amount of handholding, and boring, super-relaxed, worlds that probably belong in an Animal Crossing game
Well...a good chunk of the Animal Crossing staff also works on Zelda. The main lady who does the scenario writing in Zelda is also the main lady for Animal Crossing. If anything, I wish they put more AC inspiration into the NPCs in Zelda. But...you know, made it less cute and more, I guess, "dark," for lack of a better word.
Getting a letter sent to you in the middle of a dungeon...and having someone invite you over for dinner or something. That'd be great. And if you miss the dinner they stop talking to you. xD They should definitely have some kind of affinity thing going with several characters.
But yes! Turning the series into something less than legendary was a bad move.
SS didn't have an overworld. In fact, I would just say the three areas on the surface were dungeons themselves. There was nothing to connect any of them, no traditional open spaces, they were just linear puzzle corridors. The Sky would be the closest thing to the overworld SS has, but it is a pathetic excuse for one as its like less than half the size of WW's sea with even less interesting islands.
ALBW did "overworld with puzzles" just fine, not sure why people forget. That game had an expansive open world, but each branching sub area had a puzzle that required completing. That could even still be possible with this game.
ALBW did "overworld with puzzles" just fine, not sure why people forget. That game had an expansive open world, but each branching sub area had a puzzle that required completing. That could even still be possible with this game.
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