Support NeoGAF

[GeordieMark]

I'm guessing you didn't watch the video….

I'm guessing you are wrong. Actually, I'm not guessing. I'm 100% certain.

Why do people get so bent out of shape about this? It some guys opinion.

He mentioned loads of different racing games. If he doesn't like Driveclub it is up to him. Just like if you don't like FH2, that is your prerogative. I wouldn't say he shat on DC, he just explained why he didn't like it. He isn't lying or making shit up, its just the way he saw it.

Like I said, both kinds of game can co-exist comfortably. All this Forza vs DC shit is ridiculous and makes the communities of both games look pretty petty and childish.

Opinions.

 

[GoldenCrow]

The open world action game equivalent of driving games has been around for a good while and are very fun in their own right and I find it bizarre that FH is even getting compared to FM but if its the aspects of racing that appeal to you then they miss the most important points.You can easily get the same sort of intense experience from track, circuit and road racing games that you get in FH2 however you do have to have a decent amount of track knowledge and skill to pull it off. I agree with him that FH plays on fantasy as it takes a lot from what Hollywood does with cars and applies it to a formula that works well with it as proven by Midnight Club and makes an easily accessible game, games like FM take what is exciting about real racing and creates an experience as close as they can.

 

[Teletraan1]

I am excited for a closed circuit/point to point racer because they have a higher likelihood of being 60 FPS. All this open world biz on these consoles equates to 30. More 60 FPS racers please. That is just my opinion. I am not some hotshot that works at Gamespot so grain of salt.

 

[RefigeKru]

On Driveclub;

'Modest Handling, and AI that is just stuck in the race line will just wear down any enjoyment you're experiencing.'

See these sorts of opinions you can just let fly.

'It's not an open world racer but the tracks aren't circuits.'

Considering there is both P2P and Circuit tracks i'mma call bullshit on this one.

'They are however not designed to maximise the pure thrill of just driving.'

Honestly, that's all Driveclub really is. From it's track design, to handling, penalties for mistakes, difficulty, AI, aesthetics, sound...

Most importantly, how can he praise FH2 for it's almost Arcadey feel and radical jumps, then turn around and moan at The Club for having nitrous boosts? A lynchpin of the classical open world racer. *Salute*

 

[GoldenCrow]

On Driveclub;

'Modest Handling, and AI that is just stuck in the race line will just wear down any enjoyment you're experiencing.'

See these sorts of opinions you can just let fly.

'It's not an open world racer but the tracks aren't circuits.'

Considering there is both P2P and Circuit tracks i'mma call bullshit on this one.

'They are however not designed to maximise the pure thrill of just driving.'

Honestly, that's all Driveclub really is. From it's track design, to handling, penalties for mistakes, difficulty, AI, aesthetics, sound...

Most importantly, how can he praise FH2 for it's almost Arcadey feel and radical jumps, then turn around and moan at The Club for having nitrous boosts? A lynchpin of the classical open world racer. *Salute*

He says the tracks have no flow either , ha! what a load of shit.

 

[Blarg]

Nvm

 

[purg3]

I hate to say it, but I'm not really hyped for it either. Forza 5 kind of bored me to death. I just chalk it up to being a launch game. While there was nothing wrong with it, it just felt like it was missing something. I sunk serious time in all the previous games, but I just couldn't get into FM5. I'll need to see some gameplay and what changes and improvements Turn 10 has in store before I get excited about playing another mainline Forza game.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Why not just play FM5 then?

I want to play a realistic track racer like you mention but two huge things would stop me:

1. The completely assfucked policy that console makers have when it comes to third party wheels and pedals.

2. The complete lack of innovation in the genre. Careers modes are nothing but very thin veils over what are essentially the same races and track and events from past games. It's the same grind game after game with little virtual incentives or plot to spice up the tedium between and in races.

Innovation comes in all forms.

I'd argue the weather system in DC is innovative. I guess you could also count Drivatars as innovate, but they aren't quite there just yet...

 

[Waaghals]

This is not a terribly interesting observation.
The fundamental flaw of the whole argument is that there can only be room for one kind of game in every genre.

People like this are killing gaming.

Not to say that he is not entitled to his opinion, I can understand that someone would prefer FH2 over F6.
I just hope that people like him won't ruin it for those of us that can deal with more than one game per genre.

 

[CaptainOblivious]

I should make a video on why GameSpot is no longer relevant.

 

[Terbinator]

I guess you could also count Drivatars as innovate, but they aren't quite there just yet...

Stick it on the top difficulty and they absolutely are.

 

[pixelbox]

First post in my heart

I cannot belive he said that, if i met him in person i would punch him.
"The video personality"

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Stick it on the top difficulty and they absolutely are.

Huh, will have to give that a try.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[down 2 orth]

From the review: "There is no rewind mechanic here; a particularly grave error will have you reaching for the restart option."

I don't need to go any further than that really.

That slimy little piece of

 

[pixelbox]

People complain about not being able to express having an opinion but the problem is these publications have power and they need to be responsible with it. They can really do harm to the industry with shitty ass beliefs. Just look what happened to God Hand.

 

[Gestault]

I think it's a narrow enough outlook that I'm not sure it's valuable as a mainstream editorial, but I can't deny the points about a finished product these days including some element of exploration and variety. I've been active enough in the genre that I sort of "get" that feeling, but I've consistently dropped back into other more traditionally structured racers alongside my Horizon 2 playthrough.

I think the crux of these issues are that he feels that the traditional "race" focused racing games haven't done enough to flesh out even that experience. Think about the criticisms of Gran Turismo 4 vs Gran Turismo 3: GT4 had "more" in a lot of respects, but for all its cars and tracks, it didn't improve career play by, frankly, any measure. I think this is a new example of that concern.

 

[GeordieMark]

People complain about not being able to express having an opinion but the problem is these publications have power and they need to be responsible with it. They can really do harm to the industry with shitty ass beliefs. Just look what happened to God Hand.

But who decides what is a 'shitty ass belief' and what is a valid opinion? If a game is good enough, some guy on Gamespot slagging it won't make a difference. Drive club appears to have done very well despite guys like this saying they didn't like it.

We want journos to be honest and not pander to the whims of publishers, so we can't complain if they give an opinion and it isn't what we like. They aren't there to sell the games for the publishers and devs, and if a game does poorly, it probably either isn't a good game, or is a good but lacks mass appeal.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

During the holiday I played A LOT of Driveclub which is just straight up racing, no filler.

Then I started playing Forza Horizon 2 and it felt so archaic: silly FMV (unskippable) cutscenes, a story mode, over the top UI flourishes...To me it felt like game design from a bygone era.

 

[Branson]

During the holiday I played A LOT of Driveclub which is just straight up racing, no filler.

Then I started playing Forza Horizon 2 and it felt so archaic: silly FMV (unskippable) cutscenes, a story mode, over the top UI flourishes...To me it felt like game design from a bygone era.

See that type of variety sounds great to me. Idk. I want both. I use iRacing for my serious racing nowadays, horizon would be a fantastic secondary game.

 

[Vilam]

This bullshit needs to stop. Open world racing games SUCK. You can't design tracks that are as fun to race on in an open world compared to original tracks. Having to drive places between races is awful. Ugh fuck... I love the racing genre and hate that with the limited number of racing games we get these days that they're being ruined by this shit.

 

[psn]

Who cares about this guy anyway? I couldn't care less to be honest.

 

[RiderKairuu]

There's room for both IMO. I still actively enjoy Forza 5 despite having an amazing time with Horizon 2.

 

[QaaQer]

I feel like a lot of people are going to end of aligning their thoughts with him tbh, even though I disagree. Horizon 2 is really a fantasy simulator - which is a lot more appealing to more people I could say.

Yup. All console games are designed as easy power fantasies with guaranteed winning in single player. Once this is seen, they become kinda boring. Critics do love these types of games as they have to play so many shitty videogames, anything with skill checks is going to piss them off.

 

[prwxv3]

It will be fuckin hilarious if this guy reviews FM6. I hope GS have a fucking brain and get someone else to do it.

 

[AlphaDump]

Not sure why the publication that gave Forza 5 a 9 is saying this now. If they want to make Forza 6, let them in their own vision.

And I get that it is 2 different people writing review and this video. It is just strange to see such a wide stance from the same publication that considered it to be superb. Especially considering they've already started the game, so it isnt like they are going to scrap it. It is just negative PR for the sake of creating conflict (and clicks)

 

[Gestault]

Yup. All console games are designed as easy power fantasies with guaranteed winning in single player. Once this is seen, they become kinda boring. Critics do love these types of games as they have to play so many shitty videogames, anything with skill checks is going to piss them off.

This seems like an overly elaborate strawman. Particularly as we've seen the critical successes of plenty of skill-based games over the last decade. The contention comes up with their quality and novelty compared to what's already available.

 

[pixelbox]

But who decides what is a 'shitty ass belief' and what is a valid opinion? If a game is good enough, some guy on Gamespot slagging it won't make a difference. Drive club appears to have done very well despite guys like this saying they didn't like it.

We want journos to be honest and not pander to the whims of publishers, so we can't complain if they give an opinion and it isn't what we like. They aren't there to sell the games for the publishers and devs, and if a game does poorly, it probably either isn't a good game, or is a good but lacks mass appeal.

A good judge does not add personal feelings to the equation. This guy does not like sims or anything close to it. Shit he may not like racing games;either way he injected his feelings into the review.

 

[paskowitz]

Title should have read: "I do not like racing simulations, so I will not be buying Forza 6"

 

[Wabba]

I know that there are just opinions but i dont understand why Gamespot and other publise articles like these. They dont like a particular game because they prefer another type of racer. Just like the Order 1886 preview that said that you shouldn't buy it because it had some strange bugs, when he was playing the alpha build.

 

[QaaQer]

This seems like an overly elaborate strawman. Particularly as we've seen the critical successes of plenty of skill-based games over the last decade. The contention comes up with their quality and novelty compared to what's already available.

For example (single player only please)?

And I mean game with legit skill checks.

 

[Natureboy99]

Driveclub has really killed my interest in all the Sim racers. Its just so fun, and looks so good. Its the perfect balance between Sim and arcade. I'm desperately hoping for a sequel, with rally and karting.

 

[stay gold]

Variety is good, guy. I mean, part of the reason FH even exists is they can use assets from FM to reduce costs.

 

[JayhawkerStL]

Most importantly, how can he praise FH2 for it's almost Arcadey feel and radical jumps, then turn around and moan at The Club for having nitrous boosts? A lynchpin of the classical open world racer. *Salute*

Well, speaking as someone who likes these games that straddle sim and arcade, I absolutely hate games like Burnout and the recent NFS games that I classify as Point and Boost. The reason I preferred PGR and the NFS: Shift games is because they lacked the boost mechanics. And if FH2 had it, I would hate it there, too.

But I'm not saying the Burnout, NFS, or even Driveclub are bad games. They are clearly well designed games that many people love. They just aren't what I would spend my money on.

I'm far less interested in open world than the guy in this video is. It absolutely works in FH2 (much better than the first game, IMO), and it might be my favorite racer of all time. But PGR and Shift were not open world. They were arcade racers that tried to be sim games that were very forgiving, but more than anything, made driving feel visceral and intense. There has still never been a racer with a better cockpit cam than the Shift games.

I much prefer Horizon to Forza, but I think the work turn 10 ha done on assists has made Forza possible to play much more like classic PGR than Horizon, in my opinion. For me, Forza proper and Forza Horizon co-exist perfectly.

From what I've played of Driveclub, which is not much, it is a good driving game, but definitely not thrilling. It might have felt better if I had gotten into the scorechasing that the game thrives on, but it didn't make me want to keep racing in the way the other games I mention here do. There are hours that I spend in those games just driving and not worrying about checking off any lists or making progress.

 

[JayhawkerStL]

Stick it on the top difficulty and they absolutely are.

Yeah, folks that dismiss Drivatars in Forza 5 aren't understanding how to use them to craft the experience you want. When I race on easier difficulties, I get a lot more Drivatars from my friends list. Those guys will drive aggressive and the feel is like bumper cars. It can be fun, but it's not sim.

But as you increase the difficulty, you get less and less of your friends, and more guys that can really drive well. Then, at that point, you have some of the best AI that has ever appeared in a racing game. These are cars that drive human and make human like errors, but not the aggressive kind that ruin most online races.
It feels like when you race online against really good drivers.

The open world of FH2 allows for the full spectrum quality drivers. From drivers that will ram you, to others that will smoke you in any race.

Personally, I want Drivatar-like tech in all of my multiplayer games. The tech can be improved, but it is already a huge difference maker.

 

[Gestault]

For example (single player only please)?

And I mean game with legit skill checks.

Action games like the Souls series, strategy games like XCom and Fire Emblem, indie titles like Spelunky and Meatboy, even 6th gen games like Ninja Gaiden were celebrated in the press for those exact reasons. Your assertion about how reviewers are is at odds with the overall pattern of how games are reviewed. I understand the idea that since they're time limited, they'll want to blow through games, but I haven't seen that reflect in actual quality claims.

 

[no maam]

I had fun with horizon 2, but I enjoyed, and played a lot more of forza 5(or how we now call them "corridor racers"). The way he's playing reminds me of that atv game with the ps2 launch. Jumping hills and drfting in fields just doesn't hold my attention/excitement for more than 30 min at a time. But hey, that's my taste. I'm no game designer, but why can't they just patch in weather, day night cycles, rather than shipping a new game which will most likely look identical?

 

[Nafai1123]

This video perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong with some game journalists.

 

[JayhawkerStL]

This video perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong with some game journalists.

Because opinions are bad?

 

[VibratingDonkey]

That feeling of learning a track and improving is something you don't really get from the open roads of Horizon 2. There are no tracks, really, this is asphalt you're supposed to drive on rather than race, you don't get those wacky sections and corners that tend to be on them. Like, there's no corkscrew on the freeways of Italy.

The cars are similar in a fashion. While Horizon 2 handles great, the physics are not as realistic as what you get from Motorsport. I don't feel either game works as a replacement for the other. Motorsport is an infinitely better track racing sim, you know. It's just a matter of what you currently prefer. But I can understand feeling like you don't really need another racing game for a while, Horizon 2 is pretty good. And it's the second one of those, while it's the 6th Motorsport, which came after 4 Gran Turismo's or whatever it was.

 

[Majanew]

This video perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong with some game journalists.

Yep. Also another doofus throwing the "it's soulless" crap at a game like that means something. No, seriously, what the fuck does that mean?

 

[Nafai1123]

Because opinions are bad?

Bad opinions are.

 

[RayMaker]

''Forza Motorsport sport 6 is going to have to work extremely hard , to get drivers to be excited for track day again''

ye of little faith

Dan Greenawalt is one of the most passionate guys and turn 10 is one of the most passionate teams making racing sims. Forza Motorsport is one of the best sims (the best sim in my opinion) that is also very accessible to gamers wanting an easier experience.

Forza 5 Was an amazing game and racer, that was a launch game, which is no small feat.
I'am confident that this game being fully fleshed out with a team more experienced using the X1 and more advanced SDK's will be better looking then forza 5 but also with more gameplay evolutions that wasnt possible in forza 5 due to it being a launch game. Also it being the only other 60fps racer is also a big deal.

The whole video is pretty stupid really, this one guy who really loved fh2 now doesn't want to go back to a fixed circuit racer and therefore its going to have to be really special in order for ppl to want to play it.

its just one guys opinion? I dont know why gamespot posts this, it doesn't inform gamers in any way, just fucking click bait or something.

 

[Reclaimer.]

Because opinions are bad?

If bad opinions get exposure then it is bad. Fox News has stupid opinions and they get exposure..

 

[Nokterian]

From the review:



I don't need to go any further than that really.

Oh so he doesn't know how to drive in a racing game like driveclub?

That rewind feature in Grid..horrible in every racegame since it is just lazy stuff oh you messed up well rewind and try it again! When i played games like Grand Prix 2 from Microprose back then even Colin Mcrae Rally,TOCA when i did it wrong i restarted it and do it again and again learn every corner and chipping off time to be better.

That's why i love driveclub it brings be back to that core driving also codemasters did back then. Even NFS Hot Pursuit 2010 same thing when you fuck up restart and do it over again. I do like some open world driving games but closed tracks that are also well made tracks win me over i like challenge. I am not the best racer but hell i will take your time of the leaderboards when i have the chance.

 

[hawk2025]

I'm just kind of amazed that this year, 2015, is where the author chooses to plant this flag.

Open world racers have been around for years. No, decades. Objective-based racers have been around even longer. Beetle Adventure Racing busted the genre wide open. Hell, SF Rush 2049 had a good chunk of it dedicated to exploration and finding hidden stars.

There's... nothing new here. There's no reason why the game has changed now, and not 5, 10, more than 15 years ago.

With that said, I can respect that some people simply can't deal with track racers anymore. I can't agree with it, just like I can't agree with blanket statements on how people may be tired of "2D platformers", but at least I can respect it.

 

[Majanew]

Oh so he doesn't know how to drive in a racing game like driveclub?

That rewind feature in Grid..horrible in every racegame since it is just lazy stuff oh you messed up well rewind and try it again! When i played games like Grand Prix 2 from Microprose back then even Colin Mcrae Rally,TOCA when i did it wrong i restarted it and do it again and again learn every corner and chipping off time to be better.

That's why i love driveclub it brings be back to that core driving also codemasters did back then. Even NFS Hot Pursuit 2010 same thing when you fuck up restart and do it over again. I do like some open world driving games but closed tracks that are also well made tracks win me over i like challenge. I am not the best racer but hell i will take your time of the leaderboards when i have the chance.

I don't understand why anyone has an issue with rewind in a racing game. Don't like? Don't use it. Hell, in Forza Motorsport, you can turn it off in the menu. Anyone that uses it in FM has it affect their lap time anyway.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Its not just 'very little changes'. I was happy to buy a new Forza Motorsport every other year as each provided properly meaningful changes that made it worth getting. Obviously if you're not really big into the FM games or into sim-type racing, you probably wouldn't do this, but for people like me, it was quite nice.

I wouldn't mind a 3 year cycle, though. Give them a bit of extra time to do some of the stuff that others want implemented.

Forza is held back by its fast release. Development is stifled and improvements are few if the studio has to have quick releases. Games like FIFA and Assassin's Creed release on annual basis and have had terrible quality since AC2.

It doesn't even need to apply to games. If you release any entertainment product, even toys, too often, people get sick of it. It doesn't feel special when you get it a year later and you feel like you're playing the same game.

Gran Turismo takes its sweet ass time and makes a sweet ass game that feel really special when you play it EVEN if it's actually not that great. Forza should definitely go into 2 games per generation.

 

[see5harp]

Gran Turismo takes its sweet ass time and makes a sweet ass game that feel really special when you play it EVEN if it's actually not that great. Forza should definitely go into 2 games per generation.

Wait what?

 

[NeoGIF]

My biggest disappointment with Forza Motorsport 5 is that they left out a bunch of great tracks from 3 and 4.

It makes the career mode very tedious, because after a while, you just find yourself racing on the same tracks over and over again.

But other than that, It's still a damn good racer.

 

[VinFTW]

Forza is held back by its fast release. Development is stifled and improvements are few if the studio has to have quick releases. Games like FIFA and Assassin's Creed release on annual basis and have had terrible quality since AC2.

It doesn't even need to apply to games. If you release any entertainment product, even toys, too often, people get sick of it. It doesn't feel special when you get it a year later and you feel like you're playing the same game.

Gran Turismo takes its sweet ass time and makes a sweet ass game that feel really special when you play it EVEN if it's actually not that great. Forza should definitely go into 2 games per generation.

Lmao. Um what?