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Gamespot: Why I'm not excited for Forza Motorsport 6

C

Calabi

Member
I'm not excited for Gamespot either that's why I dont go there. Especially after this whatever it is, how is this journalism.

"I don't like other types of games cause they're not cool enough so they should'nt make other types of games".

Talk about negative regressive opinion, its all well a journalistic having that opinion but its associated with the site as if they all have that opinion.
 
L

Lego Boss

Member
Acquiescence said:
Another eejit who thinks open world automatically means better. It doesn't, Burnout Paradise saw to that. I'll take a series of linear, well designed tracks over some fully explorable locale that I'll have seen every inch of within the first two hours any day of the week.
Click to expand...

I fully endorse this post. BP was really the end of Burnout as a decent racing game. However, I've NEVER got on with Forza, it's always seemed a bit sterile to me, something that GT and Shift never really suffered from (and which FH really puts to bed).

If F6 can take a bit from FH2 and put it into the game I'd be really happy, but at the moment, I'm not excited for F6, but I'm pretty hyped for PCars (as it is by the same people who did Shift).

There's definitely room for both genres and Split Secons showed that circuit racers can be spectacular too (even in their arcade variant).
 
G

GrizzNKev

Banned
Give me a moment to roll my eyes.



















Okay.

YOU'LL GET ANOTHER HORIZON NEXT YEAR. You sound like a whining baby while simultaneously peddling Microsoft's games for them.
 
D

drugstore_cowboy

Member
Although Horizon's world is open for pissing about in or road trips, races aren't that far removed from a traditional track based game.

There's no cutting huge parts of a circuit out and what looks like a cheeky shortcut will usually leave the player in an awkward position to make a turn. There's still an optimal line through the course.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
I hate looking at the mini map in Open world racers.


Someone on the last page said GT and FM have not innovated for years and they need innovation.

First off, what is this "innovation" you speak of?
Secondly, you remember Drivatars? That was an innovation. Liveries in FM? That's an innovation. You remember the GT5 having head tracking using PS eye ? Coursemaker ?Day night cycle races? Those were innovations. The tire model in both GT and Forza, an actual aerodynamic model etc...things with complexity that do not exist at all in an arcade racer like Forza Horizon 2.

It doesn't matter if these innovations didn't satisfy you when you yourself do not understand what you mean with innovation. You are not going to have transforming cars or rocket cars in FM/GT, nor are you going to have open world, which is not an innovation in any sense. Have a look at real world motorsport, see what kind of changes it has gone through over the years, take a note of the places it has seen evolution in and you'll notice the evolution is seen in improving/changing the cars and tracks, not introducing ramps and obstacles in open world.
 
G

GeordieMark

Member
At the end of the day, that is that guys opinion and he is entitled to it.

There will always be traditional track/road based racers because that is what motorsport is. FH2 is a driving game, as much as it is a racing game though, which is why I think some people love it so much.

Traditional racing games won't be going anywhere though.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I think one problem is that games like Forza Horizon 2 are very accessible. It isn't just the open world nature, its the Dukes of Hazard 'smash through fences and tear through vineyards' which is just damn fun.

So I'd suggest the audience for a game like FH2 is broader than the audience for something focused like Forza 5/6. That doesn't mean Forza 5/6 isn't valid, just that some people that like FH won't like Forza full fat.
 
T

tuna_love

Banned
nOoblet16 said:
I hate looking at the mini map in Open world racers.


Someone on the last page said GT and FM have not innovated for years and they need innovation.

First off, what is this "innovation" you speak of?
Secondly, you remember Drivatars? That was an innovation. Liveries in FM? That's an innovation. You remember the GT5 having head tracking using PS eye ? Coursemaker ?Day night cycle races? Those were innovations. The tire model in both GT and Forza, an actual aerodynamic model etc...things with complexity that do not exist at all in an arcade racer like Forza Horizon 2.

It doesn't matter if these innovations didn't satisfy you when you yourself do not understand what you mean with innovation. You are not going to have transforming cars or rocket cars in FM/GT, nor are you going to have open world, which is not an innovation in any sense. Have a look at real world motorsport, see what kind of changes it has gone through over the years, take a note of the places it has seen evolution in and you'll notice the evolution is seen in improving/changing the cars and tracks, not introducing ramps and obstacles in open world.
Click to expand...
A lot of your innovations are in horizon
 
drotahorror

drotahorror

Member
SmokyDave said:
This does kinda read like 'I don't like open world racers because I'm not very good at them'.

Still, there's plenty of room in this world for both. I've no idea why some people are trying to move away from circuit racers. Perhaps they don't like motorsport.
Click to expand...

Quite the contrary really. I thought NFS Rivals was the best NFS game since Hot Pursuit 2 (ps2), and I felt like (and still feel like) it has the best designed open world in a racer. I'm also digging the hell out of The Crew. Forza Horizon 2 would likely give Driveclub a run for it's money for best racer of the year if I ever got a chance to play it.

I like open world racers but imo, the world you drive around in usually feels uninspired and boring. Which leads me to picking out things that I hate about open world racers.

Hell, I hope Evolution Studios next game is an open world Motorstorm/Wavestorm hybrid. It's literally my dream game.
 
S

ShemhazaiX

Member
I don't really like racing games. I've never bought myself a racing game other than GT5 and Mario Kart 1. I've never been a big car person, I'm 24 and haven't learned to drive. Part of me thinks it's due to rebelling against my dads fanaticism over cars and racing games when I was a child.

But all this said, give me GT, Forza Motorsport or Driveclub over Need For Speed or The Crew any day of the week.

If you prefer playing an open world racing game over track based racing games then you probably aren't a huge racing fan. You probably aren't the kind of person who would spend a load of money for the chance to drive a sports car round a track. But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that open world racers are bad. I just think they lack the essence of racing. And that it's unfair to criticize track racers for not conforming to your own tastes if you aren't a fan of the genre to begin with.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
ShemhazaiX said:
I don't really like racing games. I've never bought myself a racing game other than GT5 and Mario Kart 1. I've never been a big car person, I'm 24 and haven't learned to drive. Part of me thinks it's due to rebelling against my dads fanaticism over cars and racing games when I was a child.

But all this said, give me GT, Forza Motorsport or Driveclub over Need For Speed or The Crew any day of the week.

If you prefer playing an open world racing game over track based racing games then you probably aren't a huge racing fan. You probably aren't the kind of person who would spend a load of money for the chance to drive a sports car round a track. But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that open world racers are bad. I just think they lack the essence of racing. And that it's unfair to criticize track racers for not conforming to your own tastes if you aren't a fan of the genre to begin with.
Click to expand...
There's no such thing as 'real racing'. Unless you're talking about real life motorsport, in which we can rule out games like DriveClub and PGR, too.

I mean, if you look at races like the Dakar Rally, it kinda is analogous to open world racers, ya know?
 
P

Percy

Banned
Acquiescence said:
Another eejit who thinks open world automatically means better. It doesn't, Burnout Paradise saw to that. I'll take a series of linear, well designed tracks over some fully explorable locale that I'll have seen every inch of within the first two hours any day of the week.
Click to expand...

I definitely prefer track based racing design, but imo Burnout Paradise was fantastic.

Seanspeed said:
It takes a true fanboy 'us vs them' mentality to believe this kind of nonsense is all due to an agenda by certain fans of one game. Not surprised to hear this from you guys, though.
Click to expand...

Not surprised to see such dedicated defense forcing from you either, throwing out accusations of "fanboy" while firmly entrenched in your glass house... but I digress...

This "open world vs track based" argument isn't one I'd personally encountered until Forza Horizon came along, and I certainly never saw the gaming media literally mark racing games down in reviews for not being open world prior to Forza Horizon 2's release. The term "corridor racer" was even coined from a completely serious post by a Forza Horizon fan in a Driveclub thread on Neogaf. I said nothing about this argument being "all due to an agenda by certain fans" of anything, but you're kidding yourself if you're suggesting it's now-seeming prevalence has no relation to the more zealous elements of that fanbase (Both within the media and without) pushing it so hard in recent months.
 
S

Solaire of Astora

Death by black JPN
Nitpicking here, but will people stop referring to forza, or gt for that matter, as sims? They may be more sim than the likes of drive club/horizon, etc, but sims they ain't.

nib95 said:
And apparently track based racers aren't designed to maximise the pure thrill of driving, and don't offer any exhilarating "OMG I am the greatest" moments in them. Also the drifting is so hard and frustrating in Driveclub, it just makes no sense. Oh and the soulless comment thrown in for good measure. Sigh….
Click to expand...

I think it's important to take the video for what it is; an opinion piece. Personally, I prefer realistic track based racers, and I find more enjoyment in making a pass while abiding by racing rules and staying within the boundaries of the track rather than straightlining corners, and even taking dick dastardly level shortcuts.

I'm not saying horizon isn't fun. It looks to be a ton of fun, but I get more enjoyment from realistic games. And the whole "omg! I am the greatest" comment was corny as hell. Nevertheless, it's just an opinion piece. And at the end of the day, my opinion is just as valid as his. I'm not singling you out in particular, but I feel that whenever anyone posts their opinion, people get carried away and act like it was passed off as fact.

Of course, some do act as if their opinions are fact, but that's another story.
 
S

soundscream

Member
drugstore_cowboy said:
Although Horizon's world is open for pissing about in or road trips, races aren't that far removed from a traditional track based game.

There's no cutting huge parts of a circuit out and what looks like a cheeky shortcut will usually leave the player in an awkward position to make a turn. There's still an optimal line through the course.
Click to expand...

But there isn't much opportunity for mastery. After many hours of play sure I recognize some courses but not enough to where I'm picking out bits of scenery for braking points, or knowing where you can go into a turn at speed. Sure by lap 2 or 3 you get into a rhythm but nowhere near what you can achieve on tracks we have been racing on for years.
 
J

jett

D-Member
This is why I can't take these people seriously.

Yeah, who wants precise, carefully designed tracks, just give me randomly placed checkpoint gates.
 
S

ShemhazaiX

Member
Seanspeed said:
There's no such thing as 'real racing'. Unless you're talking about real life motorsport, in which we can rule out games like DriveClub and PGR, too.

I mean, if you look at races like the Dakar Rally, it kinda is analogous to open world racers, ya know?
Click to expand...

Yes I'm talking about motorsport rather than general racing. I'm not really into the scene so didn't know what to call it. But I wouldn't have said it'd have to be a pure sim to appeal to motorsport fans. Most of my experience with the stuff has been because my dad takes cars a little bit too seriously (whilst I'm waiting for the driverless stuff because "Eh, less effort"). Either way my point is less "Gawd if you like open world games then you ain't a real racing fan" and more "If you hate track racers then you obviously don't see the appeal, but there is a strong appeal to a lot of people so stop trying to make every game into Need For Speed".
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Percy said:
I definitely prefer track based racing design, but imo Burnout Paradise was fantastic.



Not surprised to see such dedicated defense forcing from you either, throwing out accusations of "fanboy" while firmly entrenched in your glass house... but I digress...

This "open world vs track based" argument isn't one I'd personally encountered until Forza Horizon came along, and I certainly never saw the gaming media literally mark racing games down in reviews for not being open world prior to Forza Horizon 2's release. The term "corridor racer" was even coined from a completely serious post by a Forza Horizon fan in a Driveclub thread on Neogaf. I said nothing about this argument being "all due to an agenda by certain fans" of anything, but you're kidding yourself if you're suggesting it's now-seeming prevalence has no relation to the more zealous elements of that fanbase (Both within the media and without) pushing it so hard in recent months.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, my supposed fanboy love for Forza Horizon even though I've never owned either of the games and probably never will? Gotcha. lol

And its you guys who keep fostering the term 'corridor racer'. Don't you realize that? You're carrying a grudge is all. And yes, you did say it was an agenda by certain fans of a certain game. That is very explicitly your entire point, in fact.

Really, the 'open world racing' trend started before Forza Horizon. In fact, Horizon was merely a jump on the bandwagon in that respect. It happened to be well liked by many since it was apparently a quality title, but if people's tastes are shifting towards liking open world racers, don't put that down to one franchise's fanbase and say its all because of their overzealous fans. Look at how many people are coming in here ripping on open world racers. Obviously the problem seems to come from preferring one or the other but not being able to accept the other side's perspective is just as valid as theirs.

No, people don't want things to be reasonable, they just want their favoured genre/game to not be picked on. If this was an article on why they don't like open world racers and that we need more track-based racers like DriveClub, would you be in here arguing the same things?
 
A

Afro

Member
Some people, including myself, get absolutely zero satisfaction out of arcade racers and their excessively forgiving and unrewarding physics. Even Forza Motorsport with zero assists allows you to effortlessly correct oversteer at 140+ mph in a RWD '87 Buick Regal. I do realize arcade racers appeal to the masses and must exist, however.

Still, a full sim Horizon would blow my mind.
 
GribbleGrunger

GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
tuna_love said:
Huh?
Click to expand...

Nice promotional video:

Forza H is briliant, fantastic, amazing
Driveclub is boring, lacks cars, has bad AI
Forza H is briliant, fantastic, amazing
'But let's face it, I'll still buy Forza 6' [LOL]

It's just an excuse to promote Forza Horizon and put down Driveclub.
 
D

drugstore_cowboy

Member
soundscream said:
But there isn't much opportunity for mastery. After many hours of play sure I recognize some courses but not enough to where I'm picking out bits of scenery for braking points, or knowing where you can go into a turn at speed. Sure by lap 2 or 3 you get into a rhythm but nowhere near what you can achieve on tracks we have been racing on for years.
Click to expand...

I feel the same but in a way it's nice because the pressure is really on. You're driving the course by your instincts and not from memory and the town courses are as tight as any track racer.

Labeling FH open world is near meaningless if you approach the game as a racer.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Afro said:
Some people, including myself, get absolutely zero satisfaction out of arcade racers and their excessively forgiving and unrewarding physics. Even Forza Motorsport with zero assists allows you to effortlessly correct oversteer at 140+ mph in a RWD '87 Buick Regal. I do realize arcade racers appeal to the masses and must exist, however.

Still, a full sim Horizon would blow my mind.
Click to expand...

What?

I'd be willing to bet the late-game content of something like Ridge Racer 7 is more difficult than most racing games out there. You can't just blanket-call all arcade racers unrewarding.
 
J

Jburton

Banned
I will be very interested to see when Forza 6 releases if any of those here who slated DC because it was a "corridor racer" and could only like games like Horizon change their mind.
 
D

derFeef

Member
Jburton said:
I will be very interested to see when Forza 6 releases if any of those here who slated DC because it was a "corridor racer" and could only like games like Horizon change their mind.
Click to expand...

Man, for some people everything really is black and white only - talk about generalizing.
 
E

EBreda

Member
Forza Horizon is one of the best racers of the last 5 years. It doesn't change the fact that I'd rather play a true motorsport game.

Turn 10 is in a position to make Forza 6 the best in the series. As is PD as well. Can't wait for GT7.

While I wait, I'm looking forward to Project Cars. It has the potential to be the best motorsport game around. Hopefully Grid Autorsport will make the transition to current gen as well. Heard great things about it.

Great time to be a racer!
 
R

REMEMBER CITADEL

Banned
GrizzNKev said:
You sound like a whining baby while simultaneously peddling Microsoft's games for them.
Click to expand...

The title of the video is "Why I'm Not Excited for Forza Motorsport 6". That's some good peddling.

Anyway, this whole open-world versus closed circuit debate is pointless, and it's just distracting us from the far more important questions. Like when was the last time we got a really great rally game? Where have all the futuristic racers gone? What the hell happened to unabashedly arcade racing games (on all surfaces) that are not cart racers? And most of all, WHY NO PGR???
 
T

tapedeck

Do I win a prize for talking about my penis on the Internet???
Fuck that.

What a short sighted and ignorant take, the world needs GT and Forza. If all we had was open world racers people would be sick of them in a year.
 
J

Jburton

Banned
tuna_love said:
DC and forza ain't really the same thing though are they?
Click to expand...

The main "issue" for many people and the stick some took to beating it with was that its a "corridor racer" and not really next gen like an open world racer like Horizon is.


The posts are there, ain't making this stuff up.
 
T

tuna_love

Banned
Jburton said:
The main "issue" for many people and the stick some took to beating it with was that its a "corridor racer" and not really next gen like an open world racer like Horizon is.


The posts are there, ain't making this stuff up.
Click to expand...
You guessing that they are going to buy forza 6.
 
E

EGM1966

Member
Christ gaming media can be stupid at times. The current focus on "something is bad because it's not a genre/approach I soecifically like" is horribly restricting and immature. A triumph of personal bias over rational consideration.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
I was never excited for forza 5, it looked better and had nicer tyre simulation but coming from the awesome package of forza 4 I felt like 5 dropped too much.

Maybe 6 will be a ton better, too early to tell. I would love to see night racing make a return, alpine raceway and tokyo to come back, 3D crowds to return (I hate the cardboard cutouts so much) and please turn10 give us some quality pitstop control / visuals, I think forza 1 was the only motorsport game in the series where you could cancel a pitstop early to make it shorter but take on less fuel and less damage fixes.
 
A

Afro

Member
jett said:
What?

I'd be willing to bet the late-game content of something like Ridge Racer 7 is more difficult than most racing games out there. You can't just blanket-call all arcade racers unrewarding.
Click to expand...

Too early in the morning. Still groggy. Should've stated arcade racers' physics aren't satisfying or rewarding to me in particular, not in general. My fault.
 
C

c0de

Member
Hoo-doo said:
After playing Driveclub, no. Just no.

There's nothing like driving around well-designed tracks, learning every corner and shaving off milliseconds. The open-world design of racers is fucking terrible when the actual racing is concerned, it's mostly about the open-world freedom and zaniness. That shit gets old real fast.
Click to expand...

But Horizon 2 offers you both. Open world and "tracks". I am not sure if there is still the rivals system as it was in the first Horizon which let you race against a time from one of your friends. This was also about shaving off milliseconds.
But not to be misunderstood: I don't want to sacrifice track racers for open world racers.
 
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