The "modding community" seems to be made of about 2% actual modders and 98% people who like free stuff.All I can say is the amount of abuse, ridicule and belittling some modders who agreed to this program had to suffer through, has shown that there was little in the sense of true community, rather there were mod makers and leechers.
Mob mentality pisses me off.
What if you build a mod that goes up for sale and then you release an updated version that is complete shit? What if you include a rootkit in your mod's update?
How would people be protected against stuff like that?
Hah, I have to admit that there have been some amusive aspects to the protests as well.Yeah it was removed pretty quick. It was someone who said the mod was absolutely nothing but a blank esp. Said it does nothing and is nothing.
I thought it was amusing.
Saw FMPONE (prominent CS mapper) RT this: https://twitter.com/radiatoryang/status/592346574681866241
Once again I can't help but to agree with the modder in question, like so many modders that have commented on the topic.So, let me preface this by saying that I understand the concern about paid mods.
-There are technical challenges to making it work. -There are copyright concerns. -Skyrim mods can break the game completely.
Here's what I really want to say: posts like this http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33v5yk/skyrim_falskaar_mod_creator_hired_by_bungie_just/, have it completely wrong. You do not want to force all modders to have to go into the industry in order to get paid.
We know that most game developers have lost their way, and make titles that aren't that interesting overall. Modders going full-time means they don't have to work on games they don't care about, and work for bosses they don't like, in order to survive and pay the bills. Should modders go full-time?
I think the answer is simple: if they're good enough, absolutely. If you can make mods that provide people with countless hours of entertainment, why shouldn't you be able to do so and charge a fair price to do so?
So here's what I think needs to be talked about: -The splits. I think we can agree that if modders are selling something they made, they should at least get a majority share in the sale of that item. -Free mods should be allowed and encouraged if appropriate for that mod. -There should be a selection process that ensures that only mods of a certain level of popularity and verified capability go on sale. This part is common sense to me, and it should have been included in the deal to begin with.
I earn a good living making maps for Counter-Strike. By sending the signal that you hate when modders, mappers, whatever, charge money for their stuff, you're saying I should go work for generic AAA game developer, and that kinda sucks. Because the freedom I have thanks to Valve and the Steam workshop means a great deal to me, I'll go ahead and stick my neck out for the gaming brigade and see where the chips fall.
The "modding community" seems to be made of about 2% actual modders and 98% people who like free stuff.
This debacle is so weird because the people who claim to be on the side of the modders are also staunchly defending their right to never give them a penny.
Also it seems that Skyrims user ratings have gone to complete shit. Went from a 98% rating to mid-80s over the weekend.
Saw FMPONE (prominent CS mapper) RT this: https://twitter.com/radiatoryang/status/592346574681866241
Not sure if this is genuine but i wouldnt be surprised either way. Getting a refund of store credit locks you out of the Workshop for a week?
Not sure if this is genuine but i wouldnt be surprised either way. Getting a refund of store credit locks you out of the Workshop for a week?
Also it seems that Skyrims user ratings have gone to complete shit. Went from a 98% rating to mid-80s over the weekend.
Not sure if this is genuine but i wouldnt be surprised either way. Getting a refund of store credit locks you out of the Workshop for a week?
Not sure if this is genuine but i wouldnt be surprised either way. Getting a refund of store credit locks you out of the Workshop for a week?
Also it seems that Skyrims user ratings have gone to complete shit. Went from a 98% rating to mid-80s over the weekend.
The lockout always happens when you add a new payment method to Steam. I'm guessing someone added a new payment method, bought a mod, refunded it - and assumed it was the refund causing the lockout but it was the payment method in the first place.Right, just did 6 different purchases and refunded them all, all Steam money was taken instantly BUT rather annoyingly all Steam money was not returned instantly and it states it can take a couple of day to get it back.
After 6 refunds i still have access to workshop/market, i would do a few more purchase to see how many triggers a ban (if one is real), but i can't do any more until i get my funds back.
You argument also gets utterly broken due to Shivering Isles' release, still one of the best Expansions/DLC content of that entire generation.
At this point it feels like alot of the criticism is misdirected, I feel that Bethesda should be the ones to blame here. Steam has always had a workshop, and Bethesda was probably the ones who approached Valve with the idea to make paid mods. After all, they're the ones profiting the most out of it, and they're probably the ones who came up with the terms for it.
And then you have the fact that Valve is the only one getting heat right now. So Bethesda is probably happy about that fact.
How is making something nice once in their entire history exactly argument-breaking?
The initial poster linked this image and then cherry picked horse armor DLC, while completely ignoring Shivering Isles. Oblivion's release would take from both the 2006 and 2011 portion on the image, and wasn't accurately represented.
I'm 100% behind FMPONE on this.
So, let me preface this by saying that I understand the concern about paid mods.
-There are technical challenges to making it work. -There are copyright concerns. -Skyrim mods can break the game completely.
There is no community. There are people who enjoy making mods and having others enjoy their work, and the people who like to customize their game with the various mods.
It's a market even less so than a community. The whole thing is a joke. If Valve thinks this makes sense, PC gaming should start moving away from Steam.
The problems with this rollout are numerous, but the idea of being so entitled to free content that you demand modders get jobs with AAA devs is just sickening to read.
The lockout always happens when you add a new payment method to Steam. I'm guessing someone added a new payment method, bought a mod, refunded it - and assumed it was the refund causing the lockout but it was the payment method in the first place.
EDIT:
They're only addressing the issue with the ban when you pay via Steam wallet funds, if you pay via other means (debit card/credit card etc) regardless of it being an already linked payment method, you do a refund and you get a 7 day ban from the market.There we go. Makes total sense that way. Looks like Valve is going to address it and the issue The Cowboy came across.
Recent Self Refund
If you have issued a refund on your Steam account to your Wallet, you will be restricted from using the Market for 7 days while the funds are verified.
People tinkering around with commercial software for shits and giggles, knowledge, curiosity, or just plain boredom, and sharing their knowledge, findings, and creations with one another, has been a staple of personal computing since its very founding.
It's never been about money until now. That's the problem. Consumers frowned upon people trying to make a buck off of these things, and corporations frowned upon their intellectual property being used for monetary gain outside of their consent and their sphere of control.
It's not that some mods don't deserve money - it's that there's a billion other ways to make money, and very few environments where people can just tinker around without concern for monetary exploitation or benefit. Why change that? Why bring the app store model to mods after 30+ years of money not being a factor?
What's wrong with just finding good modders and mod teams and contracting them for official DLC? Or making well-received mods into their own corporate IPs/brands?
Why ruin something special? :/
I like having content created for the community out of a desire to create content. No money, no fame, just curiosity and self-fulfillment. No barriers to entry
People tinkering around with commercial software for shits and giggles, knowledge, curiosity, or just plain boredom, and sharing their knowledge, findings, and creations with one another, has been a staple of personal computing since its very founding.
It's never been about money until now. That's the problem. Consumers frowned upon people trying to make a buck off of these things, and corporations frowned upon their intellectual property being used for monetary gain outside of their consent and their sphere of control.
It's not that some mods don't deserve money - it's that there's a billion other ways to make money, and very few environments where people can just tinker around without concern for monetary exploitation or benefit. Why change that? Why bring the app store model to mods after 30+ years of money not being a factor?
What's wrong with just finding good modders and mod teams and contracting them for official DLC? Or making well-received mods into their own corporate IPs/brands?
Why ruin something special? :/
I like having content created for the community out of a desire to create content. No money, no fame, just curiosity and self-fulfillment. No barriers to entry
What is now an option will become mandatory when Fallout 4 comes out. And another modding community is ruined. Bethesda using the EA playbook and we are all poorer for it.
PS: Von Stroheim directed a classic silent movie called "Greed." He was against it. I'll just leave this here:
Care to explain how they will release tools to let you change game files that restrict you to only making paid mods?
What is now an option will become mandatory when Fallout 4 comes out. And another modding community is ruined. Bethesda using the EA playbook and we are all poorer for it.
PS: Von Stroheim directed a classic silent movie called "Greed." He was against it. I'll just leave this here:
You'll pay for the tools next time.
You'll pay for the tools next time. And the EULA will say you can only sell them on steam. Can't you see where this is going?
Wait and see, people.
Once a revenue stream is unearthed, the stakeholders will generally do everything they can to protect it, including locking things down. Valve (well, Gabe) has already said they won't put up a fight if Bethesda wants mod DRM.
Skyrim has Steam DRM and you can still pirate it
And your argument is? That because piracy is still an option, it's all going to be okay?
Retreat!
All of a sudden, being part of a modding community and doing it for the love of the game is not enough. Divide and conquer really works! SMH.
Did you consider that it was maybe never enough but there was no reasonable way to monetize without getting C&D'ed before?
Some people like to get compensated for the work they do.
Indeed, I too wish to be paid 25% of the value of my work! HA!
Indeed, I too wish to be paid 25% of the value of my work! HA!
We are not going to agree or change each others mind. Let's revisit when Fallout 4 comes out.
Project managers can work on projects worth millions of dollars and make a few hundred thousand a year. A programmer at Rockstar makes maybe a hundred grand a year? The list goes on and on.
Lots and lots of people make less than their work is "worth."