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[WinFonda]

I argued as much when it was delayed, and I got a ton of shit for saying it. I think everyone's just kinda over it now, though. Yeah, Uncharted 4 got revamped and pushed back because of the creative shift, it'll be different than the original team vision but it'll be all the better for the extra dev time regardless of creative changes. All the peeps who've put time on it are all crazy talented.

The other good thing is over the long dev time I bet they've been able to accommodate most of the principle actors' schedules. Which means we'll probably get meatier roles on supporting characters like Chloe, and the multiplayer roster can be filled out with a huge roster. Should also mean we won't be seeing a character like Cutter introduced and written out of the story 2 chapters later.

Must suck for Nolan though, basically having to "shoot" U4 twice. More paydays tho!

 

[Bracewell]

This is mostly speculation, but if there were creative differences over the script, that would have pretty far reaching consequences, would it not? Everything ranging from dialogue and performance capture to level design beats and possibly even game mechanics could have been affected, so having to throw out eight months of mocap seems like a conservative estimate at worst, and reasonable at best.

That being said, both of Naughty Dog's teams have proven themselves extremely talented and capable, and everything we've seen of Uncharted 4 points to this franchise going it with style (and possibly multiple GOTY awards). Plus, we have an Amy Hennig Star Wars game to look forward to, so it seems like a win-win.

 

[Mar Nosso]

Personally, I didn't enjoy UC3's story very much and the final part of the game almost completely mirrors UC2's. It was obvious and jarring: ancient city as a final scenario from which you have to escape as it self destructs, all the while fighting against super powerful humans. There's also a set piece where you jump from truck to truck and the encounters are more melee based. How they did not notice all the similarities between both games, which would only dilute UC3's story, I cannot fathom. And if they did and went ahead with it anyway, UC3's reception is all on them.

However, the darker tone of UC4's first teaser trailer, suggesting a rivalry between Nathan and his brother, at present seems more interesting than what Druckmann and Straley are planning for the story. But we shall see when the game releases.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Throw away 8 months and only delay the game for 4 months (assuming a November date to begin with)? Good turn around

 

[Spinluck]

The elements you listed were all great on their own, but to me none of them coalesced together into a cohesive story at all. I liked the general skeleton plot for Uncharted 3; the events and escapades that led him to Ubar was all well presented and fun.

But the "heart" of the story was supposed to be between Nate and Elena (and their estranged relationship), but their interactions were so fleeting and poorly integrated that I was largely unaffected by it all, making the ending cutscene hollow, unsatisfying, and even confusing. What about the events leading to the end warranted that kind of saccharine ending?

Like I said, it did feel rushed. Felt like a blend of, "ok Amy, we need you to write around these levels and locations we want to use." And Amy doing her own thing or wanting to dig deeper with the characters. It had some bad pacing when compared to the previous 2 (yes, even the first one). Starts off strong with an Oceans 11 type of feel having the crew sans Elena back together, then it steadys towards the middle before it begins to crawl, and then it picks up then flatlines over and over till its climax which wasn't all that satisfying goes down. It doesn't have the great piece UC2 had, but UC2s story was really tame to me and didn't really go anywhere with the characters.

But in all that, I enjoyed UC3s story because of its individual moments of greatness, and it eclipses the first two games for me in that regard. The feel good, pulp action one liners in the first two games are still great- but the whole "haha we almost died back there and its all my fault for dragging you all into this," schtick wasn't at the forefront here and I enjoyed where Hennig tried to go with it even if wasn't executed the best way.

 

[Drencrom]

Throw away 8 months and only delay the game for 4 months (assuming a November date to begin with)? Good turn around

8 months of story and performance work, not all the work they made on the game, which was probably mostly likely graphics engine stuff, models, gameplay mechanics and so on.

 

[Verendus]

It's always weird to me when people state Uncharted 3 wasn't received well. It was the most successful entry in the franchise, critically acclaimed, and helped contribute to further establish the Naughty Dog brand, which also helped The Last of Us sniff the numbers that it did. It had a few minor issues, but that's because it was rushed, and that's acknowledged by the parties involved. There really isn't much of a difference in quality between that and Uncharted 2. They're both pretty similar. In the EU, it even says on the cover of The Last of Us, "From the creators of Uncharted". That's there for a reason, and it's because of how well Uncharted has done.

Anyway, I'm ready for the GOTG. I'm tired of the delayathon; it's taken too many lives already.

 

[lukeskymac]

Throw away 8 months and only delay the game for 4 months (assuming a November date to begin with)? Good turn around

They didn't throw away 8 months of the entire game.

Beaten.

It's always weird to me when people state Uncharted 3 wasn't received well. It was the most successful entry in the franchise, critically acclaimed, and helped contribute to further establish the Naughty Dog brand, which also helped The Last of Us sniff the numbers that it did. It had a few minor issues, but that's because it was rushed, and that's acknowledged by the parties involved. There really isn't much of a difference in quality between that and Uncharted 2. They're both pretty similar. In the EU, it even says on the cover of The Last of Us, "From the creators of Uncharted". That's there for a reason, and it's because of how well Uncharted has done.

Anyway, I'm ready for the GOTG. I'm tired of the delayathon; it's taken too many lives already.

This man speaks the truth (when he isn't trolling newbies).

 

[Prototype Viktor]

I wasn't implying the entire game but capture is still a lot work hours and assuming they still do hand animation on top of that

 

[Gaogaogao]

I wish they didn't do that

 

[Drencrom]

I wish they didn't do that

Sure, but it was most likely needed. ND as whole wouldn't just have her get cut from the project for no good reason, especially if they had to throw away work that they made and have Bruce and Neil 'rebooting' the project (maybe the reason they needed a few extra months). Shit like that costs money for Sony and they would most likely not have it with just a simple and petty reason like "she made the game too grimdark/different".

 

[DevilFox]

Even better. Uncharted gives its best under Straley as director, while I can definitely trust Neil on writing and acting performance after TLOU.
Also, it's no news that I'm not a fan of Amy's works, so.. I don't know why or how she left, I just want to sit and play a good, light hearted game.
With this recent news that Star Wars is going to be like Uncharted, whatever that means, all I can do is wish her good luck because I'm afraid she (they) is going to lose every kind of comparison with Uncharted, gameplay or narrative wise, proving once again not only why this franchise is unique but also that her "pupils" have surpassed the master, which is only a good thing and a nice legacy in my opinion.

 

[border]

It's not comparable, what's happening with Amy is pure speculation. Meanwhile, Konami is erasing Kojima from history.

I'm not really sure why it has to be a perfect 1:1 comparison. Removal of Kojima's top-billing on previous efforts is a tertiary issue, though from the looks of this thread there are plenty of people who have no problem downplaying Hennig's contributions to the franchise.

Naughty Dog fires an IP's creator and hands it to someone else. Many people trip over themselves to excuse it or explain why it might be a good thing, pointing out relatively minor problems with the last iteration.

Konami fires an IP's creator and hands it to someone else. Many people immediately assumes that upper management are just a bunch of assholes, and willfully ignore huge production issues with both Revengeance and MGS5 (massive dev time, huge investment into a multiplayer mode for a series that doesn't need it at all).

 

[Bracewell]

...proving once again not only why this franchise is unique but also that her "pupils" has surpassed the master, which is only a good thing and a nice legacy.

Sounds like the story of her ousting may actually be the plot of her upcoming Star Wars game.

 

[Thornton Reed]

Throw away 8 months and only delay the game for 4 months (assuming a November date to begin with)? Good turn around

That naughty dog crunch

 

[TAJ]

Neil is the villain of UC4, confirmed. Called it.

 

[Ishan]

I'm not really sure why it has to be a perfect 1:1 comparison. Removal of Kojima's top-billing on previous efforts is a tertiary issue, though from the looks of this thread there are plenty of people who have no problem downplaying Hennig's contributions to the franchise.

Naughty Dog fires an IP's creator and hands it to someone else. Many people trip over themselves to excuse it or explain why it might be a good thing, pointing out relatively minor problems with the last iteration.

Konami fires an IP's creator and hands it to someone else. Many people immediately assumes that upper management are just a bunch of assholes, and willfully ignore huge production issues with both Revengeance and MGS5 (massive dev time, huge investment into a multiplayer mode for a series that doesn't need it at all).

You're looking at the situations within a vacuum . Konami is actively moving away from gaming too . Nd situation and nd's attitude towards it's ips in general is not comparable . If a well respected coach fires a top player for attitude problems it's different from when a mediocre coach fires a top player for attitude problems . One you get the coach knows what he's doing narrative vs other you get coach can't accommodate his players narrative.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

Strong disconnect between the reactions of Kojima's firing and Amy's firing from here.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Strong disconnect between the reactions of Kojima's firing and Amy's firing from here.

The future of Uncharted as a franchise is secure, the future of the MGS series is not.

 

[Etnos]

#believeindruckmann

#prefersamyanytime

both are pretty good writers thought

 

[TheStruggler]

after the game is released and further down the line I wouldnt mind the previous creators talking about what the original idea and script was for the game to kind of compare it to what we have

 

[hawk2025]

Strong disconnect between the reactions of Kojima's firing and Amy's firing from here.

You would think so, given that they are, as far as we know, very different situations.

 

[Vire]

Neil and Bruce had heavy involvement in Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us, literally the two best games Naughty Dog has ever put out.

I don't understand the trepidation. The game is gonna be awesome and I think the E3 demo proved that it's on the right track.

 

[kpaadet]

It's always weird to me when people state Uncharted 3 wasn't received well. It was the most successful entry in the franchise, critically acclaimed, and helped contribute to further establish the Naughty Dog brand, which also helped The Last of Us sniff the numbers that it did. It had a few minor issues, but that's because it was rushed, and that's acknowledged by the parties involved. There really isn't much of a difference in quality between that and Uncharted 2. They're both pretty similar. In the EU, it even says on the cover of The Last of Us, "From the creators of Uncharted". That's there for a reason, and it's because of how well Uncharted has done.

Anyway, I'm ready for the GOTG. I'm tired of the delayathon; it's taken too many lives already.

Uncharted 3 reminds me a lot of Dark Souls 2, it might have been received better critically and commercially but I don't really think it captures the magic of the past games.

 

[Vade]

It can take a long time for trash to pile up and it can easily be cleaned up in a few weeks. Amy Henning had her free reign with UC3 and the game was pathetic compared both uc2 and tlou. Both from a single player side to a multiplayer side.

Series can only work better.

 

[Mifune]

I'm not really sure why it has to be a perfect 1:1 comparison. Removal of Kojima's top-billing on previous efforts is a tertiary issue, though from the looks of this thread there are plenty of people who have no problem downplaying Hennig's contributions to the franchise.

Naughty Dog fires an IP's creator and hands it to someone else. Many people trip over themselves to excuse it or explain why it might be a good thing, pointing out relatively minor problems with the last iteration.

Konami fires an IP's creator and hands it to someone else. Many people immediately assumes that upper management are just a bunch of assholes, and willfully ignore huge production issues with both Revengeance and MGS5 (massive dev time, huge investment into a multiplayer mode for a series that doesn't need it at all).

The situations are not remotely similar. Kojima was like the last beacon of hope when it came to Konami making anything worthwhile anymore. They would put out shit and people would be like, well at least they still have Kojima. Now that's over.

Hennig's departure/removal/whatever-it-was was sad and ugly and unfortunate but at the very least she's leaving the franchise in capable hands. I think she's a big loss for ND, personally, but it doesn't in any way signal a change in the way the company makes games, or if they even will continue making console games, both of which are very much up in the air at Konami.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Neil and Bruce had heavy involvement in Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us, literally the two best games Naughty Dog has ever put out.

I don't understand the trepidation. The game is gonna be awesome and I think the E3 demo proved that it's on the right track.

... and she creatively led Uncharted 1, 2, 3, and The Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver .

 

[A-V-B]

I think what we really have to admit here is, like all great creations, it's every element of an entire team coming together to make it shine. It wasn't just Hennig, it wasn't just Druckmann. It's like a massive hockey rink with hundreds of people on the ice.

 

[Drencrom]

Uncharted 3 reminds me a lot of Dark Souls 2, it might have been received better critically and commercially but I don't really think it captures the magic of the past games.

Except the fact that Uncharted 2 was received better critically than Uncharted 3.

 

[nib95]

Tough creative decisions have to be made now and again, often it's a sign that a project is being helmed meticulously, to a very high and specific standard, other times that a project us is in disarray, or being poorly managed. Considering its Druckmann and Stanley at the helm, and based off of everything we've seen and heard so far, I'm confident it's the former.

 

[Christos]

That's not how it went.

Stay away from Elena and Sully.

 

[DevilFox]

I think what we really have to admit here is, like all great creations, it's every element of an entire team coming together to make it shine. It wasn't just Hennig, it wasn't just Druckmann. It's like a massive hockey rink with hundreds of people on the ice.

It is, indeed, at ND more than ever if what they say in the interviews is anything to go by.
A Creative Director is a key role in any team, it's the professional who develops the core idea and manages the works to bring it to life, but no matter how much experience you have, you're not going anywhere without good Leads and the other Directors (Art Director and Game Director in particular).
Way more than Neil, we should all hug Straley. He's the man who really makes a difference in ND games, in my opinion, I love everything he says in the interviews about gameplay, design etc.

 

[Mononoke]

Amy was the writer & creative director for UC2 as well. UC3 was rushed because Sony wanted the game to be out in November 2011, & a key VA left the project.

Yes, I know this. Hence why I said that UC3 was minus "Druckmann and Straley" who were also heavily involved in UC2.

That said, thanks for clarifying that Sony played a hand in rushing it out. The script felt like a mess. But it being rushed explains a lot. I knew about one of the VA leaving. But I just thought the entire last half of the story was pretty bad.

 

[foxtrot3d]

They aren't? Amy being fired from her home, her franchise taken away from her, and the new leads erasing all signs of her from the project isn't similar?

The only reason people are calm and cool about this is because they like TLOU. What happened to Amy is really sad, but again maybe her version of UC4 was garbage. Who knows

Metal Gear Solid was created by Hideo Kojima. The game is "A Hideo Kojima Game," developed by Kojima Productions, at which Kojima Directs, Produces, Designs, and Writes said games (to say the very least). Konami proceeded to fire Kojima (and apparently most his staff), remove his name from and development company from past title, and start ad placements for the next Metal Gear.

Amy Henning's role with regards to Uncharted is unclear. We don't know where the initial idea for Uncharted came from and who is ultimately responsible for what. She was the creative director and writer for UC1, 2, and 3. And, at some point was removed from UC4 and replaced with Neil and Bruce. Her name was not removed from past titles, her team was not fired along with her, additionally she wasn't fired late in the process just before the game came out. Amy Henning no doubt had a large role developing the franchise but it's not called "Amy Henning's Uncharted" developed by "Amy Henning Productions."

So, I don't think it's exactly the same.

 

[Drencrom]

That's not how it went.

Bruce Straley, our protector of gameplay and savior of levity from the evil wizard Druckmann, killer of lovable characters and creator of grimdark conclusions!

 

[DevilFox]

They aren't? Amy being fired from her home, her franchise taken away from her, and the new leads erasing all signs of her from the project isn't similar?

The only reason people are calm and cool about this is because they like TLOU. What happened to Amy is really sad, but again maybe her version of UC4 was garbage. Who knows

Nope. If you really have to, compare this to Rising. A team fucks up, another team comes in.
Kojima's story is more complex and it probably has little (reads as nothing) to do with the game being bad.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

It's always weird to me when people state Uncharted 3 wasn't received well. It was the most successful entry in the franchise, critically acclaimed, and helped contribute to further establish the Naughty Dog brand, which also helped The Last of Us sniff the numbers that it did. It had a few minor issues, but that's because it was rushed, and that's acknowledged by the parties involved. There really isn't much of a difference in quality between that and Uncharted 2. They're both pretty similar. In the EU, it even says on the cover of The Last of Us, "From the creators of Uncharted". That's there for a reason, and it's because of how well Uncharted has done.

Anyway, I'm ready for the GOTG. I'm tired of the delayathon; it's taken too many lives already.

Spoiler

my body is ready

 

[Sanjay]

I hope shes rebooting Star Wars Jedi Knight series.

 

[sono]

8 months of work we may not get to see ?


I would even pay for unfinished Amy Hennig's work as well as the current version!

 

[etta]

Slightly off topic (Uncharted movie), but have they chosen an actor for Sully? Please tell me they know about Sam Axe (Bruce Campbell) from Burn Notice.

 

[stryke]

Slightly off topic (Uncharted movie), but have they chosen an actor for Sully? Please tell me they know about Sam Axe (Bruce Campbell) from Burn Notice.
[IG]https://38.media.tumblr.com/bdbaf6d3ca7c33f5231ea757de81a421/tumblr_n7l88bCXLO1tdiymeo8_250.gif[/IMG]
https://33.media.tumblr.com/7cb179cb99d47daf7b444283bd709b8c/tumblr_n7l88bCXLO1tdiymeo2_250.gif[/IG][/QUOTE]

Movie is pretty much in limbo.

 

[Bold One]

That's not how it went.

...mutherfucker!

 

[Audioboxer]

TLoU > Uncharted

(Not that Amy didn't do amazing work, but I prefer TLoU's storytelling)

 

[anaron]

Strong disconnect between the reactions of Kojima's firing and Amy's firing from here.

certain people don't want to acknowledge her importance for some fucked reason

 

[KAL2006]

Once Uncharted 4 is out ans successful which I am sure it will be. I would love to know the original vision Amy had for comparisons sake and what if scenario. Similar to when we heard David Jaffes original vision for God of War series.

 

[Prine]

I think UC1 was average and UC3 didn't come close to UC2, happy to have Druckman and co leading all future ND games.

 

[Alo0oy]

Amy Henning's role with regards to Uncharted is unclear. We don't know where the initial idea for Uncharted came from and who is ultimately responsible for what. She was the creative director and writer for UC1, 2, and 3. And, at some point was removed from UC4 and replaced with Neil and Bruce. Her name was not removed from past titles, her team was not fired along with her, additionally she wasn't fired late in the process just before the game came out. Amy Henning no doubt had a large role developing the franchise but it's not called "Amy Henning's Uncharted" developed by "Amy Henning Productions."

Uncharted was entirely Amy, she pitched the idea to Sony, Sony resisted the idea at first, & then they wanted to change some key components, eventually they gave her the creative freedom to do Uncharted the way she wanted it. We know this much from plenty of interviews & documentaries.

The situation with Kojima is not even remotely similar, but let's not rewrite history, Amy had as much input into Uncharted as any director ever had in his video games. Especially the first one when she was the sole director of the game. Let's not downplay her importance to the franchise.

Let's not forget that Uncharted 3 is possibly the best selling PS3 exclusive of the entire generation.

 

[Persona7]

certain people don't want to acknowledge her importance for some fucked reason

It's been like that for years. Every time this comes up Amy Hennig is downplayed as just being a writer that had little input on Uncharted 2 or part of the "b" team. Whatever that means.

 

[Alo0oy]

It's been like that for years. Every time this comes up Amy Hennig is downplayed as just being a writer that had little input on Uncharted 2 or part of the "b" team. Whatever that means.

I don't think it's been like that for years, the narrative started when Amy left ND, people got defensive & started giving credit to other people. Unfortunately because of GAF's popularity that narrative spread all over the internet to the point where even "professional" journalists downplay her role & call Druckmann & Straley as the "creative forces" behind Uncharted 2.

 

[SnowFlakeCake]

Straley is quite easily the golden goose at ND, his role in making a game is significantly more important than what Druckmann does with creating a story. I will go where Straley goes, dude is for me one of the best if not the best game director currently out there. He seems to learn quickly as well, UC4 is looking like a big jump up from the other games.

I'm very happy Richmond left, the worst game director to make a game at ND but Hennig was genuine class, great shame to see her go and that too on what seems to be shaky terms. I don't think we will ever know what happened with Hennig at ND, perhaps creative differences between members caused big problems, you can have too many cooks in the kitchen. The ND teams last game was amazing so have a lot of faith in the team, Hennig however has joined a studio which is a shadow of it's former self. Dead Space was fucking incredible, Dead Space 2 was also great but fucking hell since then Visceral games went down the shitter, hope they ca redeem themselves.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but yeah, the Hennig twitter account is pretty fucking funny. Right on top is the mention of Horizon but fuck all with UC4. I don't think she left the studio on good terms at all.