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[psychotron]

PS4 with 7200rpm HDD here.

The load times are actually fine imho, really nothing stands out for me. But its so confusing that the game runs fine outside but indoors drops frames like crazy in scenarios that doesnt seem taxing at all.

Same setup. Haven't really hit building interiors yet, as I'm only about two hours in. So far it's running very well with only a couple auto saving stutters. I entered a cave and killed a few things but now I'm nervous to go in a building because I don't want to see the frame drops. Lol.

 

[Mastperf]

Did they utilize the PS4's extra gpu power for anything?

 

[valkyre]

The streaming engine seems "late", even to this day hence the stutter in the frametime graph I posted. Rain does not render as intented.


I would not rank AK amongst the best optimized PC releases of the year.


True but I'll take an imperfect 60fps over a 30fps limitation any day of the week. Even in its sorry state it can be a much better version if you have 16gb of RAM and 4gb of VRAM. And you don't need as much if you can settle for the same 30fps as consoles.

Seems to me we are pretty much on the same page then!

Sometimes poor optimization is evident across all platforms. Just because W3 had serious fps issues upon release, that did not mean that CDPR did all they could with the hardware they had, and through further optimization they ironed out the performance to almost a rock solid 30 fps experience.

We shouldnt be jumping to conclusions about hardware power as often as we do. (as a community)

 

[Kezen]

Seems to me we are pretty much on the same page then!

Sometimes poor optimization is evident across all platforms. Just because W3 had serious fps issues upon release, that did not mean that CDPR did all they could with the hardware they had, and through further optimization they ironed out the performance to almost a rock solid 30 fps experience.

We shouldnt be jumping to conclusions about hardware power as often as we do. (as a community)

According to you then, is this the fault of the hardware or consoles are simply too sophisticated for Bethesda ?

According to you what should we see instead ? The Witcher 3 also had a much worse LOD/draw distance on PS4, it is not uncommon at all for console games exclusive or otherwise to have poor LOD and draw distances.
However much you may disagree I steadfastly believe those are raw hardware limitations in this specific case, not talking about the framerate in general.

 

[valkyre]

According to you then, is this the fault of the hardware or consoles are simply too sophisticated for Bethesda ?

According to you what should we see instead ? The Witcher 3 also had a much worse LOD/draw distance on PS4, it is not uncommon at all for console games exclusive or otherwise to have poor LOD and draw distances.
However much you may disagree I steadfastly believe those are raw hardware limitations in this specific case, not talking about the framerate in general.

I dont understand what your point is. If you think I claimed that console games can and should look like PC versions you are dead wrong.

What I specifically said is that when a game is released and has some poor performance or graphical hiccups, that it is poor judgement for certain people to go on and claim that "X developer did all they could but the hardware sucks, so that is why it runs as crappy as it does in your system".

Do you honestly believe that XB1 version of Fallout cannot avoid those 1 sec 0 fps moments? Or that the framerate cant simply get better through optimization?

Edit: and yes, to answer you question (which as I said was never my point), I believe that other developing teams could provide a better Fallout 4 visual result for consoles. But then they would do the same on PC. So the difference would still be as big as what your gif shows. But both versions could look better than that.

 

[AHindD]

Edit: and yes, to answer you question (which as I said was never my point), I believe that other developing teams could provide a better Fallout 4 visual result for consoles. But then they would do the same on PC. So the difference would still be as big as what your gif shows. But both versions could look better than that.

No development team could produce a better looking game without using a completely different engine. This thing is pushed pretty much to its limit, and needs to be taken out back and shot.

 

[valkyre]

No development team could produce a better looking game without using a completely different engine. This thing is pushed pretty much to its limit, and needs to be taken out back and shot.

Agreed about the engine, but I honestly do believe others could do better. I am not speaking of huge improvements here. But noticeable ones.

IMO Bethesda is sloppy. Yes the engine is old. But they are sloppy as well.

People do not complain and buy the games no matter the state they ship, so they just dont care enough. And that's kinda shitty.

 

[AHindD]

Agreed about the engine, but I honestly do believe others could do better. I am not speaking of huge improvements here. But noticeable ones.

IMO Bethesda is sloppy. Yes the engine is old. But they are sloppy as well.

People do not complain and buy the games no matter the state they ship, so they just dont care enough. And that's kinda shitty.

I feel texture work, shaders, and animations could be improved upon (as evident in the ability of some very skilled modder work on Skyrim), but I still think the underlying issue of shadow quality, view distance, and general hitchiness as examples of the game would be very difficult for a dev team to solve without shelving the current engine.

Edit: so i guess I've come around and kind of agree!

 

[Kezen]

I dont understand what your point is. If you think I claimed that console games can and should look like PC versions you are dead wrong.

That is not my point, like at all. I merely stated my experience with AK which IMO can be a better game on beefy PCs (important stipulation).

What I specifically said is that when a game is released and has some poor performance or graphical hiccups, that it is poor judgement for certain people to go on and claim that "X developer did all they could but the hardware sucks, so that is why it runs as crappy as it does in your system".

Hence why I asked, do you think this frankly horrible LOD is the result of Bethesda's supposed incompetence ?

Do you honestly believe that XB1 version of Fallout cannot avoid those 1 sec 0 fps moments? Or that the framerate cant simply get better through optimization?

I was not alluding to performance, reread my post. I was talking specifically about LOD/draw distance.
Quoting myself :

However much you may disagree I steadfastly believe those are raw hardware limitations in this specific case, not talking about the framerate in general.

Edit: and yes, to answer you question (which as I said was never my point), I believe that other developing teams could provide a better Fallout 4 visual result for consoles. But then they would do the same on PC. So the difference would still be as big as what your gif shows. But both versions could look better than that.

I wonder if that's true for LOD. Consoles CPUs are hardly state of the art, they must be pushed very hard and data on PC points towards a well multithreaded game.
On PC I assume it must be true, more could be achieved with modern APIs like DX12, but can the LOD be improved on consoles ? I'm not convinced, and I gave other examples of games with poor shadow distances on consoles.
Surely those developpers know about rendering, this could mean the console CPUs are to blame and not the respective engines.

 

[valkyre]

That is not my point, like at all. I merely stated my experience with AK which IMO can be a better game on beefy PCs (important stipulation).


Hence why I asked, do you think this frankly horrible LOD is the result of Bethesda's supposed incompetence ?


I was not alluding to performance, reread my post. I was talking specifically about LOD/draw distance.
Quoting myself :



I wonder if that's true for LOD. Consoles CPUs are hardly state of the art, they must be pushed very hard and data on PC points towards a well multithreaded game.
On PC I assume it must be true, more could be achieved with modern APIs like DX12, but can the LOD be improved on consoles ? I'm not convinced, and I gave other examples of games with poor shadow distances on consoles.
Surely those developpers know about rendering, this could mean the console CPUs are to blame and not the respective engines.

What was presented by me as mainly focused on performance issues in games, was derailed to an LOD issue by you. Dont know why you insist on focusing on LOD when it was never even touched as a subject by me. Again, I never claimed consoles can produce PC quality gfx nor did I ever imply that I expect developers to deliver same visuals including LOD. I know consoles have certain limitations and devs have to work around through them. But I was talking about shitty performance and poor optimization.

And another thing. I never called them "incompetent" as you imply. Another thing being sloppy, another being incompetent.

If you believe that console versions of Fallout 4 are the absolute best result that Bethesda could produce, meaning XB1 cant do better than having 1 sec stutters and the framedrops included, then I am sorry but I whole heartedly disagree.

 

[old manatee]

Nah, there's a ton of criticism being thrown this game's way, and reviews aren't as high as previous entries in the series.

Fingers crossed that modders can finish it before GOTY discussions.

 

[Kezen]

What was presented by me as mainly focused on performance issues in games, was derailed to an LOD issue by you. Dont know why you insist on focusing on LOD when it was never even touched as a subject by me. Again, I never claimed consoles can produce PC quality gfx nor did I ever imply that I expect developers to deliver same visuals including LOD. I know consoles have certain limitations and devs have to work around through them. But I was talking about shitty performance and poor optimization.

Alright then, I was asking a very simple question regarding LOD and how better should it look according to you since Bethesda have apparently failed to deliver.

And another thing. I never called them "incompetent" as you imply. Another thing being sloppy, another being incompetent.

I never implied you implied that.

If you believe that console versions of Fallout 4 are the absolute best result that Bethesda could produce, meaning XB1 cant do better than having 1 sec stutters and the framedrops included, then I am sorry but I whole heartedly disagree.

I do not believe that, I believe the dismal LOD and shadow distance is indeed what consoles CPU can offer. Nothing else.

 

[c0de]

Did they utilize the PS4's extra gpu power for anything?

Yes, they made the GPU help the hard disk. GPGPU for the win.

 

[Mastperf]

Yes, they made the GPU help the hard disk. GPGPU for the win.

So the external drives come with extra gpu power on XB1? New secret sauce discovered?

 

[dmr87]

GTX 950/ GTX 960 vs R9 380/ R7 370

 

[Kezen]

GTX 950/ GTX 960 vs R9 380/ R7 370

AMD need to release a driver for the game, a 950 winning against a 370 is weird.

 

[c0de]

So the external drives come with extra gpu power on XB1? New secret sauce discovered?

No, it only works one way.

 

[thelastword]

Actually, this CPU is faster than the PS4/XB1 one.

How so? The CPU's in the consoles are closer to an underclocked 8120. The CPU I highlighted is AMD anyway and it's only a 4 core processor, though it's clocked higher, there are more cores available on the consoles CPU's.

The CPU in consoles may not be high end intel CPU's, but they are not absolute dogshit like some people are trying to pretend they are. People say the i3 is responsible for the advantage that the 750ti setup shows in Fallout 4, they call AMD CPU's garbage. I show one of the crappy AMD cpu's running this game at high 40's and 50's on high settings and all of a sudden it's better than what's in the PS4, (which they can't prove). At what point shall we admit to games being poorly developed on consoles.....?

There's a lot that's not eating at your resources on consoles like your anti virus, word processor, browser and a million other resident programs and apps in the background. There's even dedicated hardware for capture and audio/video streaming. I'm sure if they relieve further resources to games things will improve for good devs, but not for devs which make weaker hardware perform better. (RER2 performs better on XB1 as an example)........I'm certain if the PS4 had 980ti's in SLI and a 8 core Haswell-E, we would still have many shoddy below 30fps ports from the same devs.

Look at ZOE2, that game became 1080p 60fps with high resolution alpha and bokeh DOF implemented and a wave of other improvements with a nice AA solution, as opposed to the initial release which was 720p, no AA, no DOF, low res alpha, falling to the teens in fps frequently, a target of 30fps, in essence a mess. Shoddy ports this gen are through the roof and is no different from High Voltage's effort with that remaster. It's really sad that people always run in to blame hardware on account of their preferences, when it's clear what the problem is. Last gen I always wished that Hexadrive would have redone Bayonetta on PS3 with a proper 720p 60fps....

It just shows that there are different class of devs, the same is true for programmers anyway, true talent is irreplaceable. A bad workman always blames his tools (disingenuously of course). The trend I'm seeing, is that fans of specific platforms, blame other platforms for not doing better. They thrash the hardware (on account of badly performing code) and say that the devs could not do better with what they are working with, when it's clearly not the case, as shown in many cases infinitum.

Why is there no water in this part of the PS4 version of the game?

Youtube, here:
https://youtu.be/JQ4oz8Y1Z8Q?t=21

If you go a few seconds further there is (or better isn't if you look at PS4) another puddle on xbox one and PC but none on PS4 ... WHY?

There is water in the PS4 version, it's all the same actually unless I missed something, the lighting is just different on PS4, it doesn't have that yellow tint the other versions have. I was going to mention that much earlier on actually.

 

[Dictator93]

The CPU in consoles may not be low end intel CPU's

ftfy
This seems to be a more appropriate word in the context.

 

[Kezen]

ftfy
This seems to be a more appropriate word in the context.

True, even entry level Intel CPUs like the Core I3 effortlessly outclass consoles while running an extremely heavy API.
Quite stunning if you ask me.

On my PC windows 10 takes less than 1% of my CPU at idle before starting a game. So unless you run a lot of unnecessary programs in the background I feel confident enough to say the OS overhead on PC is very low.
If only we could say the same about DX11....

 

[NakedJedi]

All things aside. I'm not making excuses for Bethesda. I was a PS3 Skyrim owner. I'm sure they will be able to patch some of these issues. None of the platforms are in an unplayable state. Least the game didn't have like a 7gb day one patch .

 

[omonimo]

According to you then, is this the fault of the hardware or consoles are simply too sophisticated for Bethesda ?

According to you what should we see instead ? The Witcher 3 also had a much worse LOD/draw distance on PS4, it is not uncommon at all for console games exclusive or otherwise to have poor LOD and draw distances.
However much you may disagree I steadfastly believe those are raw hardware limitations in this specific case, not talking about the framerate in general.

You kidding me? Shadows FOV in the witcher 3 it's far better of this thing.

 

[Dictator93]

You kidding me? Shadows FOV in the witcher 3 it's far better of this thing.

I think he means "in comparison to the PC version"

 

[dan2026]

The PS4s performance issues are really bumming me out.
Impacts the gameplay and makes accurate aiming impossible.

I think i'm going to shelve it and hope for a patch.

 

[omonimo]

I think he means "in comparison to the PC version"

Ah ok. But surely Fallout 4 it's not the example of the best FOV on console.

 

[Kezen]

You kidding me? Shadows FOV in the witcher 3 it's far better of this thing.

I think he means "in comparison to the PC version"

Exactly. The Witcher 3's LOD/shadow distance is rather "poor" in my opinion although the global look of the game is there.

Ah ok. But surely Fallout 4 it's not the best example of the FOV limits on console.

I did not allude to FOV, at all.
I focused on what is, to me, the most flagrant visual weakness of the console versions.

Maybe it will be patched along with the sub30fps drops.

 

[-griffy-]

Why is there no water in this part of the PS4 version of the game?

Youtube, here:
https://youtu.be/JQ4oz8Y1Z8Q?t=21

If you go a few seconds further there is (or better isn't if you look at PS4) another puddle on xbox one and PC but none on PS4 ... WHY?

The game randomly generates "ground clutter" stuff like grass, debris, and apparently puddles when you load into an area. If you look closely you can actually see the puddles are shaped differently between X1 and PC. It just didn't happen to draw in puddles in those spots on PS4 when it loaded into that area on that walk through.

 

[omonimo]

Exactly. The Witcher 3's LOD/shadow distance is rather "poor" in my opinion although the global look of the game is there.

You mean on console? Considered the CPU limits I think the exact opposite. Probably it's the best in a multiplat.

 

[Berlin_Wall]

The game randomly generates "ground clutter" stuff like grass, debris, and apparently puddles when you load into an area. If you look closely you can actually see the puddles are shaped differently between X1 and PC. It just didn't happen to draw in puddles in those spots on PS4 when it loaded into that area on that walk through.

Thanks for reply. So everything is fine then.

 

[nhlducks35]

Outside environments look fine in this game, it's the interiors that look like absolute crap

 

[Kezen]

You mean on console? Considered the CPU limits I think the exact opposite. Probably it's the best in a multiplat.

Well to each his own, if that's enough for you that's okay.

 

[omonimo]

Well to each his own, if that's enough for you that's okay.

I invite you to find a multiplat with better FOV on console. I imagine from a PC enthusiastic it's really poor but you have to consider the CPU where works.

 

[Dictator93]

You mean on console? Considered the CPU limits I think the exact opposite. Probably it's the best in a multiplat.

Oh yeah it definitely is one of the best, if not THE best example for shadow draw distance and LOD on console, multiplats and exclusive considered as well. It just looks low if you compare it to the PC version...

Interestingly enough you see low shadow draw distance and low LOD transition distances in exclusives as well: it probably goes back to the fact that draw calls are still a limitting factore due to the CPUs (if you pay heed to what crytek and ubisoft have written).

 

[Kezen]

I invite you to find a multiplat better on console. I imagine from a PC enthusiastic it's really poor but you have to consider the CPU where works.

You know from what I've seen The Witcher 3 looks fine on consoles, but the LOD definitely sticks out like a sore thumb.
Maybe there are ways to mitigate that, but I would not immediately blame the developpers in this case hence my Fallout 4 comment. If they drastically improve the LOD on consoles great but I'm not expecting it, perhaps if the game on PC had scaling issues but that is not the case. Seeing activity on 8 strong cores indicates that there should not be any issues on 6 Jaguar CPUs.

 

[omonimo]

Oh yeah it definitely is one of the best, if not THE best example for shadow draw distance and LOD on console, multiplats and exclusive considered as well. It just looks low if you compare it to the PC version...

Interestingly enough you see low shadow draw distance and low LODs in exclusives as well: it probably goes back to the fact that draw calls are still a limitting factore due to the CPUs (if you pay heed to what crytek and ubisoft have written).

Well I mean I'm not pretending to fly with a car. But if even better it's possible I will not to be regret.

 

[omonimo]

You know from what I've seen The Witcher 3 looks fine on consoles, but the LOD definitely sticks out like a sore thumb.
Maybe there are ways to mitigate that, but I would not immediately blame the developpers in this case hence my Fallout 4 comment. If they drastically improve the LOD on consoles great but I'm not expecting it, perhaps if the game on PC had scaling issues but that is not the case. Seeing activity on 8 strong cores indicates that there should not be any issues on 6 Jaguar CPUs.

Thanks to God FOV it's probably the only issue which really I never cared that much. I hate more fps and tearing issue. Tearing especially.

 

[RoadHazard]

Oh yeah it definitely is one of the best, if not THE best example for shadow draw distance and LOD on console, multiplats and exclusive considered as well. It just looks low if you compare it to the PC version...

Interestingly enough you see low shadow draw distance and low LOD transition distances in exclusives as well: it probably goes back to the fact that draw calls are still a limitting factore due to the CPUs (if you pay heed to what crytek and ubisoft have written).

Isn't that PC screenshot tweaked to get a higher shadow draw distance than is possible using the in-game settings. I seem to remember it from one of those threads. Not saying the PC version doesn't have better shadow LOD than the consoles anyway if your rig can handle it, of course.

 

[Dictator93]

Isn't that PC screenshot tweaked to get a higher shadow draw distance than is possible using the in-game settings. I seem to remember it from one of those threads. Not saying the PC version doesn't have better shadow LOD than the consoles anyway if your rig can handle it, of course.

It's default ultra settings from the digital foundry article.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Witcher 3 and MGS V won't let that happen.

Fixed that for you.

 

[RoadHazard]

Its default ultra settings from the digital foundry article.

OK, I might be thinking of a different screenshot.

Either way, that shot is focusing in on a small cropped square exactly where the shadow draw distance stops in the console versions. And yeah, the PC version goes on a bit further. Obviously. But this particular comparison is a bit pointless, as it provides no reference for how far away the shadows are actually drawn in each version. It only shows that they stop at one point in the console versions and at a more distant point in the maxed PC version.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I have experienced far worse frame rates on ps4 than this article suggests. I wonder if it's my HDD?

 

[thelastword]

The only thing I can say is that I look forward to properly optimized multiplats on consoles. Properly developed games on the machines........ Clearly, having an easy dev environment and no exotic hardware this time around is giving us some really awful pieces of code.

The devs said PS3 was a pain (cue Gabe Newel and all the nasty things he had to say, he still came around and developed a superior portal 2 on that platform). That platform was also home to the most impressive pieces of code last gen). At the end of the day it all boils down to the dev. I'm sure there is a dev out there that would make PONG a nightmare to run on PS4 hardware.....

 

[Dictator93]

OK, I might be thinking of a different screenshot.

Either way, that shot is focusing in on a small cropped square exactly where the shadow draw distance stops in the console versions. And yeah, the PC version goes on a bit further. Obviously. But this particular comparison is a bit pointless, as it provides no reference for how far away the shadows are actually drawn in each version. It only shows that they stop at one point in the console versions and at a more distant point in the maxed PC version.

You are right. This is probably a better illustration about scale as to when shadows stop rendering relatively.

Console: most shadows stop after 20 units or so?

PC: 200+ units or so?

 

[dark10x]

The only thing I can say is that I look forward to properly optimized multiplats on consoles. Properly developed games on the machines........ Clearly, having an easy dev environment and no exotic hardware this time around is giving us some really awful pieces of code.

The devs said PS3 was a pain (cue Gabe Newel and all the nasty things he had to say, he still came around and developed a superior portal 2 on that platform). That platform was also home to the most impressive pieces of code last gen). At the end of the day it all boils down to the dev. I'm sure there is a dev out there that would make PONG a nightmare to run on PS4 hardware.....

You're nuts. Awful pieces of code? Fallout 4? Sure. Most multiplats at least turn in solid performance. The games that struggled were ACU, Witcher 3, and Fallout. The average quality of ports this time around is much greater than before. Last gen, when you had a bad port, it was real bad. Frame-rates well under 30 with tearing everywhere and pared back details. Assassin's Creed Unity runs BETTER than last gen PS360 games in the same franchise even.

You bitch about games that don't match your unrealistic expectations but the products are still solid. Alien Isolation looks incredible on Ps4 and runs at a rock solid 30fps. You think it should run faster, fine, that doesn't mean the end product is bad.

I think the truth with many of these games lies in the middle. The consoles are not as strong as you seem to think...but some developers are not necessarily putting their best effort behind the games either. This isn't a black and white issue and there are hundreds of games being released. Listing a small handful means nothing.

 

[th4tguy]

This game has been in development for a long time (before skyrim). You know at some point it was being designed around 360/ ps3, which is most likely why they continued with the GameByro engine. I really really hope that the next ES game uses a new next gen only engine for it.

 

[Shin-Ra]

I'm sure there is a dev out there that would make PONG a nightmare to run on PS4 hardware.....

Ubisoft Tetris Ultimate

 

[kingwingin]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=L6-0mfWCN_w

Was having the framerate chug a bit then noticed this. Could be the cause of it dropping while indoors?

 

[thelastword]

Ubisoft Tetris Ultimate

Nuff said, hook line and sinker.

 

[tuxfool]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=L6-0mfWCN_w

Was having the framerate chug a bit then noticed this. Could be the cause of it dropping while indoors?

That looks like you're having culling issues. It could certainly be that some stuff is being overdrawn leading to wasted performance.

 

[digdug2k]

I rented Arkham Knight this weekend on my PS4, and after watching it dip in to the single digit framerates more than a few times I'm finding it harder to take Digital Foundry very seriously in these reviews anymore.