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Rumor: Bravely Second's "Tomahawk" class changed to a cowboy one (+ costume edit)

Eolz

Eolz

Member
d5rdwWI.jpg
Click to expand...

Destructoid just received a heated news tip in our tips inbox stating "...I learned that Square Enix has replaced a Native American class called Tomahawk with Cowboy class in Bravely Second's western version. I find this very untasteful considering how natives were genocided and their culture was almost completely destroyed in the US. I hope you can spread the news and hopefully Square Enix removes cowboy pandering." The email included the image seen above, which has the file name "cultural genocide".
Click to expand...

While I wouldn't be surprised if all this is just fake drama drummed up by bored internet children, it's also not out of the realm of possibility for Nintendo to make this kind of localization change. [...]

Sadly, this fear of offending minorities is one of the reasons that so many minority characters in games are cut, or never planned to begin with. The only way to be sure you won't offend anyone is to not say anything at all. The downside is, that's also a sure fire way to be a lot more boring and noninclusive.
Click to expand...

Source: Destructoid

Thoughts on this?
If true, this is a lot more than just a simple breast slider removed (XCX), text localization, or outfits heavily edited/removed (Bravely Default), since this is going into the realm of cultural change/reappropriation. That would be pretty bad.

Hoping that NOA/NOE/Square-Enix see this and don't make it happen.

edit: make me another stereotype if old.
 
W

Warxard

Banned
Maybe it's a localization matter with the Spanish version only? I can't see this getting changed for NA, despite it's obvious tastelessness.
 
N

Neoweee

Member
Eolz said:
Source: Destructoid

Thoughts on this?
If true, this is a lot more than just a simple breast slider removed (XCX), text localization, or outfits heavily edited/removed (Bravely Default), since this is going into the realm of cultural change/reappropriation. That would be pretty bad.

Hoping that NOA/NOE/Square-Enix see this and don't make it happen.

edit: make me another stereotype if old.
Click to expand...

Uh, wouldn't the Tomahawk outfit itself being the one guilty of cultural appropriation?

Removal of Native American mascots and imagery is not considered censorship.
 
N

NinjaCoachZ

Member
I'd be okay with this if true. Turning First Nations cultures into a class or a costume really wouldn't fly.

Like this line:
I find this very untasteful considering how natives were genocided and their culture was almost completely destroyed in the US.
Click to expand...

I feel like that's exactly why the original costume was distasteful to begin with.
 
V

Vamphuntr

Member
People whine all the time anyway. The guy complaining about genocide culture is probably the same complaining about people wearing a naive american costume for Halloween.
 
A

AtomskEater

Member
Because when I see a fringe bikini and leggings, I think of the rich cultural heritage of Native Americans.

Like, I hope it's not removed or altered, but I can't really bring myself to be upset about a name change.

Edit: Nevermind, I see that they're supposed to be changing it to look more like the one of the right. Looks like they just added a hat and jeans? Still gets a somewhat lukewarm reaction from me, SE did this costume altering with the last game and some ended up looking better while others looked worse. I really wish they'd just leave it be, but I'm not getting the cultural genocide angle because I don't think that costume on the left is accurate to what actual Native Americans wore, and given the fantasy setting it's likely the person they get the asterisk from isn't Native American either.
 
M

Modest Mauser

Member
The comment in the article is weird, as it's the sexy Tomahawk outfit that's tasteless and potentially offensive, not that I'm saying it should be censored or anything.

Could someone who knows more about this game clear something up for me, is this a character's design or is it just a costume as part of a class?
 
A

Afrocious

Member
Why is it called a Tomahawk class when the character is using a crossbow?

Get rid of both costumes. Give the character an axe or something and leave it at that.
 
B

Barrylocke

Member
Eolz said:
Source: Destructoid

Thoughts on this?
If true, this is a lot more than just a simple breast slider removed (XCX), text localization, or outfits heavily edited/removed (Bravely Default), since this is going into the realm of cultural change/reappropriation. That would be pretty bad.

Hoping that NOA/NOE/Square-Enix see this and don't make it happen.

edit: make me another stereotype if old.
Click to expand...

What does it say that I'm actually more ok with this than the breast slider?
 
P

PBalfredo

Member
Are we really going to bemoan the lack of chibi g-string indian outfits?

Sadly, this fear of offending minorities is one of the reasons that so many minority characters in games are cut, or never planned to begin with.
Click to expand...

[Citation needed]
 
S

Slayven

Member
Super-StarNinger.jpg



IdreamofHIME said:
Tomahawk class uses crossbow instead of an actual tomahawk...
..makes as much sense as the games title.
Click to expand...

Hahahahaha I was about to say

Sadly, this fear of offending minorities is one of the reasons that so many minority characters in games are cut, or never planned to begin with. The only way to be sure you won't offend anyone is to not say anything at all. The downside is, that's also a sure fire way to be a lot more boring and noninclusive.
Click to expand...
Nope, stop being lazy and reducing characters to stereotypes, god forbid devs see minorities as people instead outfits
 
R

Ridley327

Member
Modest Mauser said:
The comment in the article is weird, as it's the sexy Tomahawk outfit that's tasteless and potentially offensive, not that I'm saying it should be censored or anything.

Could someone who knows more about this game clear something up for me, is this a character's design or is it just a costume as part of a class?
Click to expand...

It's a costume as a part of the class, but each party member gets their own take on it. You can see it in the pic, as there are differences between Magnolia and Edea.
 
O

Orniletter

Banned
Didn't the Olympic sports dude who wore an Indian dress at a Halloweenparty get into hot water because of cultural appropriation ?
 
C

chaobreaker

Member
I see where that Destructoid journalist is going with this, but I still can't get behind the sexy halloween costume Native American class that's literally called Tomahawk. That's just... really in bad taste. The cowboy will probably not be any better but come on.

Some of the jobs costumes in the first Bravely Default were pretty dumb, especially the one's for from the 2 female party members, like the Spell Fencer job.

latest
latest
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
Without the feathers I imagine that dress would be similar to something you would see in african tribal costumes. But the feathers and the name pretty much make it undeniable. Probably for the best though tbh going with cowboy probably isn't being sensitive to the issue they think they are. This is what localization is for. Making it appropriate to where its released. I have no issue.
 
O

OniBarubary

Banned
Vamphuntr said:
People whine all the time anyway. The guy complaining about genocide culture is probably the same complaining about people wearing a naive american costume for Halloween.
Click to expand...

People shouldn't wear a Native American costume for Halloween. It's fucking disrespectful.
 
M

Modest Mauser

Member
Ridley327 said:
It's a costume as a part of the class, but each party member gets their own take on it. You can see it in the pic, as there are differences between Magnolia and Edea.
Click to expand...

So this quote is pretty ridiculous then:

Sadly, this fear of offending minorities is one of the reasons that so many minority characters in games are cut, or never planned to begin with.
Click to expand...

As well as the comment about removing it being cultural appropriation. I'm not pro-censorship but the reasoning behind the change is clear and Destructoid's defense of the costume is bizarrely misguided.
 
Eolz

Eolz

Member
For those that didn't play Bravely Default:
You usually beat a boss of this class (left of OP picture) to be able to use it. In this case, it's the usual (stereotype maybe but still) case of a character talking about spirits and other things.
Do you think it would be better if you kill a Native American to become a cowboy, or if the Native American-like character completely disappears to just be a classic cowgirl instead?
 
M

Maintenance

Member
Eolz said:
Do you think it would be better if you kill a Native American to become a cowboy, or if the Native American-like character completely disappears to just be a classic cowgirl instead?
Click to expand...

Gimme dat Daisy Duke boss battle, with boots and white Jeep.
 
S

Slayven

Member
The author pretty much says "Accept coonery and shucking & jiving or you will get nothing"


the privilege balls on this guy
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Include a stereotypical Native American class in your game? THAT'S RACIST

Remove stereotypical Native American class from your game? THAT'S RACIST
 
K

Klossen

Banned
Sadly, this fear of offending minorities is one of the reasons that so many minority characters in games are cut, or never planned to begin with. The only way to be sure you won't offend anyone is to not say anything at all. The downside is, that's also a sure fire way to be a lot more boring and noninclusive.
Click to expand...
Yep. My thoughts exactly. And you can see it already in many games where the protagonist is some non-offensive bland Average Joe guy that simply possibly can't be taken the wrong. It's sad how far this has gone. Now even different cultures is deemed offensive. Absurd.
 
A

Afrocious

Member
Eolz said:
For those that didn't play Bravely Default:
You usually beat a boss of this class (left of OP picture) to be able to use it. In this case, it's the usual (stereotype maybe but still) case of a character talking about spirits and other things.
Do you think it would be better if you kill a Native American to become a cowboy, or if the Native American-like character completely disappears to just be a classic cowgirl instead?
Click to expand...

Damn that makes it sounds worse. You kill a Native American and dress up like them, or you kill a Native American and you run around as a cowboy.
 
N

Nachos

Member
Modest Mauser said:
The comment in the article is weird, as it's the sexy Tomahawk outfit that's tasteless and potentially offensive, not that I'm saying it should be censored or anything.

Could someone who knows more about this game clear something up for me, is this a character's design or is it just a costume as part of a class?
Click to expand...
It's a class. Leftmost girl gives you the ability to use the class. Middle picture is a render of one character using said class in the Japanese version, while the rightmost is the class' outfit after being altered.

EDIT: beaten
 
M

Modest Mauser

Member
Klossen said:
Yep. My thoughts exactly. And you can see it already in many games where the protagonist is some non-offensive bland Average Joe guy that simply possibly can't be taken the wrong. It's sad how far this has gone. Now even different cultures is deemed offensive. Absurd.
Click to expand...

Are you being sarcastic?
 
K

kuroneko0509

Member
Considering they changed the design for Magnolia with the job equipped, most likely they change Aimy design as well, so most likely there's no 'killing' a Native American & ends up getting a Cowbow/girl job case
 
T

Thorgi

Member
Really looking forward to the next round of gamers claiming that different costumes for different regions is somehow censorship.

Also I'm pretty happy that they're substituting an appropriative outfit for something that's closer to goofy fun.
 
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