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GamesRadar: Street Fighter V's backlash proves we value quantity over quality

Being a causal fighting games player, I value more those extra features like story and for fun modes than a delightfully crafted fighting mechanics which I will never deep into. They made their market choice. I wasn't that interested in the game to begin with.
 

Intel_89

Member
It's not like Capcom hid this from everyone, people should've known what they were getting into before picking up the game. With that said, I still think Capcom shouldn't have pushed the game out as it is right now.
 

Renekton

Member
Being a causal fighting games player, I value more those extra features like story and for fun modes than a delightfully crafted fighting mechanics which I will never deep into. They made their market choice. I wasn't that interested in the game to begin with.
Well you weren't going to buy it anyways.

I think that's the reality for SF: casuals are not coming regardless of the non-MP features.
 

LordRaptor

Member
The price is irrelevant. You are paying the 60 dollars with the idea of a future investment. In a sense you are getting your 60 bucks worth (if content is what makes that for you)...just not day 1.

So... its an Early Access title then?
Because that is what Early Access exists for.

An Early Access release provides clear messaging that you are helping support a game that is still in active development, not a feature complete finished product.
 

Spman2099

Member
Other games didn't get a pass when it came to content issues. This shouldn't either.


I feel like having a specific focus, and delivering marvelously in that regard, is a viable path for a game. That is what SFV is.

Should they have included an arcade mode? Well, since it surely would have taken no effort to implement, yes. However, that lack of an arcade mode doesn't diminish the fact that this is an excellent fighting game.

I can see why people interested in content rich games would prefer MKX, but I quite simply could never play that game again after SFV.

Being really, really good at one thing is enough, in my opinion. That is SFV right now. If you aren't interested in that thing (an excellent combat engine and smooth online) then wait until more single player content is released or play something else.

So... its an Early Access title then?
Because that is what Early Access exists for.

An Early Access release provides clear messaging that you are helping support a game that is still in active development, not a feature complete finished product.

The difference is that this will never be "feature complete". The idea is to keep expanding on it for the entire console generation.
 

gelf

Member
Well you weren't going to buy it anyways.

I think that's the reality for SF: casuals are not coming regardless of the non-MP features.
The casuals did come though. There wouldn't be such a negative reviews backlash if it was just being bought by the hardcore happy with just the basic online features.

It was greatly underestimated how much of a casual audience Street Fighter has and that's one reason why it's been hit by negativity like this.
 

Renekton

Member
The casuals did come though. There wouldn't be such a negative reviews backlash if it was just being bought by the hardcore happy with just the basic online features.

It was greatly underestimated how much of a casual audience Street Fighter has and that's one reason why it's been hit by negativity like this.
You don't have to buy the game to make internet noise about it.
 

MagnesD3

Member
I could have sworn that this content is still coming. Why the backlash?

Because general consumers didnt keep up on details provided about a game they were going to pay 60 dollars for, alot of them still dont understand that updates are on the way either.
 
I think the bigger issue is that the game is lacking core features from earlier games. Taking well liked stuff out if sequels rarely goes down well.
 
D

Deleted member 325805

Unconfirmed Member
No one would have minded if it were priced appropriately, it just wasn't worth £40 unless you're a die hard fan.
 

Uthred

Member
Because general consumers didnt keep up on details provided about a game they were going to pay 60 dollars for, alot of them still dont understand that updates are on the way either.

It's these amazingly disingenuous "summaries" of the issue that make the discussion so pleasant
 
If I blamed my customers in my industry like the game industry blames it's customers we'd be seen as absolutely bat shit insane and would likely fall apart in no time.

Seriously, it's pretty astonishing.
 

noshten

Member
If I blamed my customers in my industry like the game industry blames it's customers we'd be seen as absolutely bat shit insane and would likely fall apart in no time.

Seriously, it's pretty astonishing.

Entitled consumers being entitled, it's like gaming companies and media are living in a parallel universe.
 

gelf

Member
You don't have to buy the game to make internet noise about it.
That's irrelevant as it's obvious a lot of people who did buy the game are not happy. You do have to own the game to review it on Steam and it's getting hammered there too.

I was cautious enough to hold off purchasing thankfully but please don't tell me I'd never have bought this game anyway when I've owned nearly every mainline Street Fighter game in the last 20+ years.
 

Renekton

Member
That's irrelevant as it's obvious a lot of people who did buy the game are not happy. You do have to own the game to review it on Steam and it's getting hammered there too.
Steam hammers anything, and can refunds after reviews (AKA free review)

It's not irrelevant, you take as established the link that there are casuals buying it due to reviews and feedback because they have to own the game. That is already disputed.

I was cautious enough to hold off purchasing thankfully but please don't tell me I'd never have bought this game anyway when I've owned nearly every mainline Street Fighter game in the last 20+ years.
Not related to my assumption about casuals, but you buying every mainline does not mean you actually wanted to buy SFV in the first place regardless of its SP content.

I mean there are people who enjoyed 3S but held off SF4 because they didn't like the mechanics, etc.
 
I'm pretty sure most of the people giving this game negative reviews are people who are still pissed that Mega Man Legends 3 was cancelled.
 

Renekton

Member
Bullshit.

Plenty of games on Steam have overwhelmingly positive reviews. This is not one of them.
But lots of games having overwhelmingly positive disproves what?

I was saying casuals may be largely not buying this game regardless of anything, and he said casuals are buying it as: evidenced by steam reviews (how is this link established?).
 
Because general consumers didnt keep up on details provided about a game they were going to pay 60 dollars for, alot of them still dont understand that updates are on the way either.

Or the general consumers used a 25 year precedent of literally every single fighting game released provided the option to have a 2/3 round matches with the CPU and an arcade mode. (The equivalent of Madden fans "keep up on details" that the next entry will have a season mode). And the fact that you didn't read the road map properly because none of this is confirmed to be coming in Capcom's official plans.
 
While the core of the game is fantastic, and while both the new lobby and training mode introduces several nice improvements, everything else just feels half baked at best.

Like the fact that you unlock the ability to change costumes / colors in story-mode, but that mode is stuck on very, very easy, so why would you ever want to replay it? And I say that despite actually rather enjoying those short story beats. Like the fact that survival is a meaningless grind, where you have to fight your way through an army of almost pacifist AIs before you get to the ones who actually fight back. And then when you lose one round, you have to fight all your way back through those pacifist AI to get to where there is a challenge. Not to mention that cosmetic colors are locked behind this grind, where previously you unlocked those simply by using a given character. And that you can't even VS the AI in a proper match, but either have to use those worthless modes, or training mode. Or the fact that several online features were outright broken on launch, not simply overloaded, that integration into Steam (and possible PSN) is extremely poor, with user-searches being basically broken until yesterday. And lets not forget the poor hardware support and lack of configurable keyboard bindings.

And hell, even the improved features that are in the game feel unpolished. An example I just stumpled upon in training mode is the shortcut settings. If you compare the first two entries, these use text to refer to the LS and RS buttons. The next entries use icons for those buttons. What? Nor does training-mode remember your previous settings, unlike SFIV. And while you can filter by connection both for ranked and casual matches, there is no way to filter lobbies, so you just get randoes from the other side of the globe joining your lobby.

All in all, I have no issue understanding why people who did not get this game for online first and foremost would be greatly disappointed with the game. Keep in mind that the road-map in which it was revealed that stuff like the store, trials, and proper lobbies would be missing on launch, was not published until 5 days before the game was released, and was probably never seen by the majority of their costumers. For one thing, this time they did not put the announcement on Steam, unlike previous announcements. Nor does the Steam store or PSN mention these missing features or the road-map, last I checked.

In short, Capcom has failed to properly inform their customers about what would actually be in the game on launch, botched the launch, and are facing a well deserved backlash.
 
From the Street Fighter twitter:

http://twitter.com/StreetFighter/status/700783628012290048?p=p

screen_shot_2016_02_20_at_9_34_40_am_by_emezie-d9sg281.png
 

KevinCow

Banned
But lots of games having overwhelmingly positive disproves what?

I was saying casuals may be largely not buying this game regardless of anything, and he said casuals are buying it as: evidenced by steam reviews (how is this link established?).

You: "Steam hammers everything."
Him: "Many games on Steam get overwhelmingly positive reviews, therefore it is not true that Steam hammers everything."

You: "The only people who care about the missing features are casuals, and casuals aren't buying the game."
Him: "Clearly there are people on Steam buying the game who wanted the missing features, so by your definition, there are plenty of casuals buying the game and being disappointed with its lack of features."
 
I actually agree with the criticisms. Not really a matter of quality vs quantity, but more about cost in my opinion. This should not have been a $60 game.

The thing is, it WILL be a $60 game. It will be worth way MORE than a $60 dollar game over time.

This is not your typically marketed video game.

From the start they described SF5 as a SERVICE. A LONG TERM investment. What it is at launch, is not what it will be over time. It will keep getting more and more free updates, unlike other fighting games like USF4, MKX, and GGXrd, where future updates require more and more money.

With SF5, you could feasibly pay $60 ONE TIME, and never have to pay anything else. With other games, if you want the new patches and characters over the years, you have to pay another $20, $30, $60 dollars. hat's not requires with SF5.

Previous SF games lasted for 5, 6, 7 years with constant Capcom support. That's the goal with this game, except without PAYING MORE for those extra years of content, patches, characters, and support. In the long run, THIS sales approach will be CHEAPER and MORE VALUABLE over time.

Capcom was very clear about this. This is not your typical video game sales cycle.
 

Renekton

Member
You: "Steam hammers everything."
Him: "Many games on Steam get overwhelmingly positive reviews, therefore it is not true that Steam hammers everything."
I said: Steam hammers ANYTHING. You know this changes the implication. Any game getting overwhelmingly positive doesn't mean another game doesn't get internet-trained on.

You: "The only people who care about the missing features are casuals, and casuals aren't buying the game."
Him: "Clearly there are people on Steam buying the game who wanted the missing features, so by your definition, there are plenty of casuals buying the game and being disappointed with its lack of features."
Doesn't prove that the negative reviews are largely casual people caring about SP features. They could be core fans rightfully unhappy with MP features. They could be quick review and refunds.
 

Mohasus

Member
I actually agree with the criticisms. Not really a matter of quality vs quantity, but more about cost in my opinion. This should not have been a $60 game.

So... wait for a price drop or until enough content is released to justify the purchase?
 

mekes

Member
I don't like the article in the OP. Customers first impressions of this game were awful. Its a poor title too, quantity over quality. Quantity had an extra bright spotlight pointed at it because of the lack of quality in what was there. The online is still messed up, but on launch day it was non-existent at worst and garbage at best. With that being the case, I'm sure many people thought they would try the other content. The other content, if you aren't training or playing offline VS, its just not good.

So with such a large part of the 'quality' not working, should customers not complain? People generally expect big things of a mainline Street Fighter launch. They were wrong to this time around.
 
I can only disagree with this article if all the stuff being complained about wasn't said up front.

Now for one, I didn't know this game wasn't going to have all the stuff that my casual gaming habits would like to play (story mode) so I opted out of buying the game until then..

.. But for the people who bought it day one, it sounds to me that they already knew what was up and people who didn't are the ones strictly complaining. Not saying all of those people who knew aren't upset either but just like Hitman, you know what your getting upfront before you pay.

I don't think it's a quantity over quality or visa versa only. I think consumers also need to stop putting the blame on studios and as well as supporting them when they do stuff like this and literally stop buying it. Outrage over the Internet and then going out to buy it is just so... Hypocritical to me. I just don't see what they learn from this.
 

Fehyd

Banned
I mean, let's be honest too, some of the "hardcore" fighting game features aren't even ready or working? 2-person battle lounges? No quit penalty? (I saw someone earlier with 32 win streak, they sure as heck disconnected before my last hit landed)

Even the training mode is pretty barebones compared to some of the options featured in other games.

The game is good for, ranked matches and 1 on 1 friendly matches.

Heck some of the single player aspects (alt costumes) are already in-game assets, but aren't use able why? You can even use them in the story mode.
 
Not really, I was planning to hold out on SFV for a little while even before hearing about all this lack of content, which just further justifies not pre-ordering. I don't think people who buy fighters care much about content tbh, rather want a well made game, but not even having a mode where you can vs CPU for more then 1 round is taking the piss a little bit too much tbh (plus other simple stuff like the lack of ragequit penalties).
 

Windforce

Member
I mean, let's be honest too, some of the "hardcore" fighting game features aren't even ready or working? 2-person battle lounges? No quit penalty? (I saw someone earlier with 32 win streak, they sure as heck disconnected before my last hit landed)

Even the training mode is pretty barbies compared to some of the options featured in other games.

The game is good for, ranked matches and 1 on 1 friendly matches.

Not even sure it´s good for ranked matches either, as I (a 500-600 LP Bronze) kept getting matched against 2000+ LP Super Silver players. Sure the loss of points isn´t significative against a higher rank, but it sure is disheartening to get destroyed over and over.

Training Mode not recording my settings (block after frist hit, no stun, show commands, attack data) can also fuck off.

Survival is shit as well. On Hard, for example, you waste time on 40+ stages of braindead enemies, only to be put up against a truly Hard enemy. This tests nothing. Give me a pass where I start at level 30 on Hard if I already beat the 30 levels of normal with that character, and so on.

That said, even as a long time SF fan I am pretty pissed off at the game right now - I'm not a hardcore by any means, so the online competition is not for me, but I love the characters and the gameplay. I know things will change, but it is totally understandable why people are shitting on the game.

The main problem atm is lack of a difficulty consistency. You either get rolled/bodied online by someone several ranks above, or get destroyed by AI on survival. That, or or fight braindead easy AI, or get matched agaisnt a poor newbie rookie online, or beat up a training target in training mode. There is no proper curve of difficulty on this game.
 

Petrae

Member
If I blamed my customers in my industry like the game industry blames it's customers we'd be seen as absolutely bat shit insane and would likely fall apart in no time.

Seriously, it's pretty astonishing.

Real Stockholm Syndrome stuff that I'll never understand. People within the industry and within the press that covers the industry insult the people who buy these games... and yet consumers reward this behavior by continuing to spend money hand over fist.

It's been fascinating to watch for the last few years.
 

ethomaz

Banned
I don't understand why these are mutually exclusive.

I saw Mortal Kombat 9. I saw MKX.

Shit, it's less content than Street Fighter IV. Wtf? I don't understand why people aren't allowed, evidently, to be upset that the game shipped with menus that actually say something along the lines of "Available in March."

Release the game in March then. I guess when you're charging full-retail, I don't expect something more akin to Early Access, for lack of a better comparison.
It has more content than SFIV at launch.

The others game I don't know because I never played them.
 
Is it not enough to say, "Street Fighter V's backlash proves we value quantity" and leave it there? Why the provocative sensationalist bullshit?
 
Real Stockholm Syndrome stuff that I'll never understand. People within the industry and within the press that covers the industry insult the people who buy these games... and yet consumers reward this behavior by continuing to spend money hand over fist.

It's been fascinating to watch for the last few years.

It's truly baffling shit.
 
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