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[Giever]

Daily reminder that these characters are supposed to be 15 years old.

But that story change? Weird.

According to Final Fantasy Wiki, which apparently has information on Bravely Second, these are the ages (in the Japanese version!) of characters I was able to find:

• Tiz Arrior - 18
• Agnès Oblige - 19
• Edea Lee - 18
• Yew Geneolgia - 16
• Janne Angard - 16
• Nikolai Nikolanikov - 34

 

[Pancake Mix]

Indeed. And for those who didn't klick that link to avoid possible spoiler:

"They removed all the non-neutral sidequest/Asterisk quest outcomes; any choices that would cause characters to die have been removed. Whatever choice you make now, you'll receive the neutral outcome where both sides make it out ok. Compare this to the Japanese versions where you had 4 different outcomes, with VOICED cutscenes!"

Even though Square Enix makes the changes themselves, damn that's cheap. It's also incredibly silly to cover the characters up more,
seriously, in Europe of all places. I don't see Square Enix doing that on other platforms. Those changes are foolish and pointless, but the dumbed down outcomes are a lot worse than pointless.

Not true anymore. We're cool now

Also Germany was only ever against gore and excessive violence

Pretty sure it's still true sometimes, but yeah it wouldn't be this stuff.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Ah, I see. That kind of makes sense, even if indeed the replacement isn't the most fortunate choice (and I have to wonder how much sense will the Native American's skills make in a cowboy).

There wasn't much in the class that suggested Native American over Cowboy to start with:

The name of the skill set (Shamanism)
A gun based classed with A rank in Axes.
And a single skill that causes you to make an attack that does magic damage instead of physical damage.

They kept the name of the skill set which seems a little out of place as a result but they also transferred Harpoon from Pirate to Gunslinger and kept it as Harpoon. And they just ignored the other 2 items.

 

[Palculator]

It's really not about what you call it.
People want the game how it was made and sold in Japan. It doesn't matter if it's edited or censored or whatever for the west. It's just a word.
Many people buy Japanese games because they like Japanese games, not westernized versions of Japanese games.

.

Not true anymore. We're cool now

Also Germany was only ever against gore and excessive violence

This too. USK don't give a shit about sex, as they should.

 

[dreamlongdead]

I doubt the costume censorship for the U.S. is big enough to turn me away from the game, but I certainly don't support the practice and I have no issue with the original costumes.

The plot changes definitely dumb down the game.

I like Fire Emblem Fates a lot, but I still dislike what was done to that game during localization. The game is just not 100% without all of the cut content.

All localized games should have the same amount of content as the original Japanese release, and it is crazy that some people (especially on GAF) are actually happy with censorship or content gutting.

 

[Puruzi]

It's really not about what you call it.
People want the game how it was made and sold in Japan. It doesn't matter if it's edited or censored or whatever for the west. It's just a word.
Many people buy Japanese games because they like Japanese games, not westernized versions of Japanese games.

THANK YOU

 

[Risette]

I doubt the costume censorship for the U.S. is big enough to turn me away from the game, but I certainly don't support the practice and I have no issue with the original costumes.

The plot changes definitely dumb down the game.

I like Fire Emblem Fates a lot, but I still dislike what was done to that game during localization. The game is just not 100% without all of the cut content.

All localized games should have the same amount of content as the original Japanese release, and it is crazy that some people (especially on GAF) are actually happy with censorship or content gutting.

I wish Yakuza 3 got the same amount of support for its cut content, maybe the series would've sold better.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

So this is a serious question. With the translation and localization of games, we often get the explanation of "making things understandable for audiences" or trying to "inject life into a script." How does that compare with the translation of text in other written formats, like say a book or theatre script? Do books commonly have translations like the translation of Phoenix Wright where they change the entire setting of the story? And if not, why is that acceptable?

I mean, when I open a book, I usually expect the translation to attempt to be faithful to the original, as great or as terrible as the original might have been, rather than rewriting entire dialogue exchanges, changing settings or rewriting endings.

I dunno, maybe books do it more than I thought.

 

[GorillaJu]

Wow they actually completely took out the "did I make the right choice?" Deliberations? Goodness that's a major theme in the game completely removed!

 

[MHWilliams]

Alrighty. This is me saying cut it with the avatar shaming and if you note a problem in a thread, it's better to let us know instead sniping at each other. Hit the topic, not each other. Cool? Cool.

Japan doesn't get new releases with "North American improvements". If these changes were made to improve the game, wouldn't that be the case?

I assume you're being facetious, but yes, that does happen.

Hm, I found an interesting paralel in this situation. Hear me out.

What we have is a product that has been changed. A number of people find changes to be detrimental, stupid and insulting. Nobody can possibly know the real reasons for the changes but the most likely ones are perceived by people as insulting and unjustified.
People do not wish to support the changes and would rather experience the original version.

Isn't this Star Wars special editions situation?

Like, even if somebody is being a smartass and says "just play japanese versions", how is it different from saying "just watch original VHS release" to a Star wars fan? In both cases, that's not a good solution, as original is not widely accessible and not as easy to experience due to reasons (good like finding a VHS players these days / good luck reading language you don't understand)

And like the Special Editions, you can talk to the quality of the changes, but in the end, we do not control the product and Disney (Lucas formerly) is allowed to do with it as they see fit as the owner.

There's are semi-legal attempts to create good versions of the originals, but the legal avenue in that case is to purchase the VHS copies. Or in this case, import the game and grit your way through it, like many do with Super Robot Wars.

Daily reminder that these characters are supposed to be 15 years old.

But that story change? Weird.

According to Final Fantasy Wiki, which apparently has information on Bravely Second, these are the ages (in the Japanese version!) of characters I was able to find:

• Tiz Arrior - 18
• Agnès Oblige - 19
• Edea Lee - 18
• Yew Geneolgia - 16
• Janne Angard - 16
• Nikolai Nikolanikov - 34

I believe the "15" comment was talking about the ages in the first game on the Japanese side. Given the links you provided, Edea was 15, Tiz was 16, and Agnes was 17 in the first game in Japan. They were all specifically made of age on Western shores.

 

[partyphone]

translating books has its own complications. you can't just literally translate things. in a lot of cases the author works closely with the translator. but ultimately the translator has at least some creative influence on the book.

this is an interesting article about translating Ancillary Justice: http://interfictions.com/translatin...tice-in-five-languages-alex-dally-macfarlane/

 

[Kaisos]

How does that compare with the translation of text in other written formats, like say a book or theatre script? Do books commonly have translations like the translation of Phoenix Wright where they change the entire setting of the story?

Theatre does this a lot. "Alternate versions" and the like. I once watched a version of Macbeth set in South Africa.

I mean, when I open a book, I usually expect the translation to attempt to be faithful to the original, as great or as terrible as the original might have been, rather than rewriting entire dialogue exchanges, changing settings or rewriting endings.

I dunno, maybe books do it more than I thought.

The difference is that video games are much more of a product than books are, but translated novels and the like aren't necessarily exactly like the original in any way, because languages aren't 1:1 ciphers. Compare the different translations of Crime and Punishment, for instance.

 

[Whizkid7]

Ugh, I should really know better than to try and argue facts with people on other forums who would rather plug their ears and blindly hate regardless of whatever the circumstances may be. These kind of significant changes suck to be sure, but at least blame the right entity, people!

 

[Neoleo2143]

translating books has its own complications. you can't just literally translate things. in a lot of cases the author works closely with the translator. but ultimately the translator has at least some creative influence on the book.

this is an interesting article about translating Ancillary Justice: http://interfictions.com/translatin...tice-in-five-languages-alex-dally-macfarlane/

That is perfectly fine though. There really isn't much issue with people working on a creative work, putting a piece of their own ideas into said work as long as it's with the original author's blessing. It could be valuable even. But I get the feeling that Silicon Knights would have wanted people even outside Japan to experience the various alternate endings to sidequests. This is outright cut content for no reason that seems rooted in cultural misunderstanding. So square is really selling an inferior product to the international audience and that's utterly disappointing to say the least.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Japan doesn't get new releases with "North American improvements". If these changes were made to improve the game, wouldn't that be the case?

Soul Bubbles in English:

Soul Bubbles in Japan:

Coincidentally, a change made by Square-Enix!

Spoiler

And coincidentally, it's also an improvement!

 

[Giever]

I believe the "15" comment was talking about the ages in the first game on the Japanese side. Given the links you provided, Edea was 15, Tiz was 16, and Agnes was 17 in the first game in Japan. They were all specifically made of age on Western shores.

Right, but this thread is about Bravely Second, and none of the characters are 15 (even in the Japanese version), and most are of age. It's not a very helpful daily reminder if it's wrong.

 

[kurahador]

Urghhh...fucking Nintendo. DQ7 & 8 going to have lots of contents censored too.

 

[Nairume]

Urghhh...fucking Nintendo. DQ7 & 8 going to have lots of contents censored too.

Might want to direct your anger at SquareEnix, then.

 

[kurahador]

Might want to direct your anger at SquareEnix, then.

Nintendo will be the one publishing them just like they did Bravely Second.

 

[Ridley327]

Nintendo will be the one publishing them just like they did Bravely Second.

Which really doesn't matter when Squenix is the one overseeing the localizations.

 

[Escalario]

Nintendo will be the one publishing them just like they did Bravely Second.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[hotpocket]

I wonder if this one would get some more press then the fire emblem changes. This one is by far worse then that one, but Bravely Second is not a big game like a new Fire Emblem was.

 

[Kaisos]

Urghhh...fucking Nintendo. DQ7 & 8 going to have lots of contents censored too.

They already changed some of the character costumes in DQ8 for the Japanese release. Look forward to ideologues screaming about that as if they don't know!

 

[Vena]

They already changed some of the character costumes in DQ8 for the Japanese release. Look forward to ideologues screaming about that as if they don't know!

Square Enix.

 

[Escalario]

Square Enix.

Spoiler

I think that's his/her point.

 

[Nairume]

Nintendo will be the one publishing them just like they did Bravely Second.

SquareEnix will be the ones overseeeing their localization, just like they did with Bravely Second.

 

[Ridley327]

I wonder if this one would get some more press then the fire emblem changes. This one is by far worse then that one, but Bravely Second is not a big game like a new Fire Emblem was.

I kinda feel like it might die out before the US release. The European gaming press doesn't seem nearly as "mobilized" towards this kind of news as they would be over here. I'm not really sure why that is, really, given the history of censorship and/or banned sales not being universal within the continent.

 

[GorillaJu]

SquareEnix will be the ones overseeeing their localization, just like they did with Bravely Second.

Are you suggesting that localization isn't beholden to the publisher's wishes?

Do you think if this was a Vita game it would have these same changes?

 

[Kaisos]

I kinda feel like it might die out before the US release. The European gaming press doesn't seem nearly as "mobilized" towards this kind of news as they would be over here. I'm not really sure why that is, really, given the history of censorship and/or banned sales not being universal within the continent.

GamerGate is fully prepared to scream about this stuff until the end of time. It is never going to die out.

 

[kurahador]

Which really doesn't matter when Squenix is the one overseeing the localizations.

SquareEnix will be the ones overseeeing their localization, just like they did with Bravely Second.

Right...it's Square-Enix faults they have to follow the guidelines provided by the publisher.

 

[Escalario]

Are you suggesting that localization isn't beholden to the publisher's wishes?

Do you think if this was a Vita game it would have these same changes?

If it was a Vita game it would sexualize female characters much more in order to sell few thousands of units more.
They would also throw a spanking minigame in there, I'm sure.

Right...it's Square-Enix faults they have to follow the guidelines provided by the publisher.

Then how do you explain SE changing Jessica's outfits in Dragon Quest 8 3DS?

 

[sonicmj1]

Right...it's Square-Enix faults they have to follow the guidelines provided by the publisher.

That's why none of the Senran Kagura games for 3DS made it to the West.
Edit: I misunderstood your point, but you also don't have any basis for saying where the impetus for change came from, or even why the changes happened.

 

[Zolo]

I kinda feel like it might die out before the US release. The European gaming press doesn't seem nearly as "mobilized" towards this kind of news as they would be over here. I'm not really sure why that is, really, given the history of censorship and/or banned sales not being universal within the continent.

I do wonder if this is actually something that would get changed for the US release.

 

[Nairume]

Right...it's Square-Enix faults they have to follow the guidelines provided by the publisher.

You mean the same publisher that had no problem with Bayonetta 2?

 

[Pancake Mix]

Urghhh...fucking Nintendo. DQ7 & 8 going to have lots of contents censored too.

A lot of people will jump on you because Square Enix controls localisations of games that Nintendo publishes of theirs but...It's technically possible Nintendo requested costume changes and lower VA costs as they are publishing, which means doing all the advertising, distribution, etc. They might be even more likely to be in charge of the art book as they'd have to print the thing, which was also censored. Just pointing that out, not saying they had anything to do with the changes per se.

DQVII should be fine, what would even be cut? They might avoid the word Eden I guess but Nintendo's no stranger to the word god now having Monolith Soft as an internal studio. You shouldn't have anything to fear.

DQVIII did get a small number of similar changes on 3DS similar to this in the Japanese release, including to 2 costumes. I bet those will be kept, but the game was released on Android and got an E10+ (down from a T in 2005 despite E10+ existing then) without changes except for removing voice acting I think (which will be back on 3DS.) I doubt a thing gets cut. Keep in mind that DQVIII is CERO A (all ages) in Japan on PS2 and 3DS, while Bravely Second was Cero C (15+ and a mandatory black case on Nintendo platforms). Quite a difference.

The huge expanse of new content is also a big selling point. If Square Enix does anything it'll maybe be something like not doing a few new lines. No way they censor the enhanced version's selling points, which I've read nothing but praise about.

You mean the same publisher that had no problem with Bayonetta 2?

Okay, now that's just a silly comparison. Bayonetta 2 has a different audience. You could claim Nintendo stopped changing things in 2002 because they published Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem, but you'd be wrong.

 

[BGBW]

Why did they give the Witch purple socks that clash with the rest of the outfit. This is a fashion outrage! They released Style Boutique 2 in Europe recently, so they have no excuse for this!

 

[GorillaJu]

A lot of people will jump on you because Square Enix controls localisations of games that Nintendo publishes of theirs but...It's technically possible Nintendo requested costume changes and lower VA costs as they are publishing, which means doing all the advertising, distribution, etc. They might be even more likely to be in charge of the art book as they'd have to print the thing, which was also censored. Just pointing that out, not saying they had anything to do with the changes per se.

DQVII should be fine, what would even be cut? They might avoid the word Eden I guess but Nintendo's no stranger to the word god now having Monolith Soft as an internal studio. You shouldn't have anything to fear.

DQVIII did get a small number of similar changes on 3DS similar to this in the Japanese release, including to 2 costumes. I bet those will be kept, but the game was released on Android and got an E10+ (down from a T in 2005 despite E10+ existing then) without changes except for removing voice acting I think (which will be back on 3DS.) I doubt a thing gets cut. Keep in mind that DQVIII is CERO A (all ages) in Japan on PS2 and 3DS, while Bravely Second was Cero C (15+ and a mandatory black case on Nintendo platforms). Quite a difference.

The huge expanse of new content is also a big selling point. If Square Enix does anything it'll maybe be something like not doing a few new lines. No way they censor the enhanced version's selling points, which I've read nothing but praise about.

The characters are also not chibi in VIII at all. You have nothing to fear.

I highly doubt Second being C in Japan is related to costumes. Showing belly buttons isn't a chief concern for Cero, it's almost undoubtedly about the heavy themes concerning death.

 

[Infinite]

Did they cut quests or not?

 

[Kaisos]

Did they cut quests or not?

They cut versions of quests. not the quests entirely. Anyone's guess as to why.

 

[Infinite]

They cut versions of quests. not the quests entirely. Anyone's guess as to why.

Source please. I don't doubt what you say but I haven't found anything on this and why

 

[Vital Tundra]

Wait, they took out choices and endings??? But, why?

I guess it really doesn't matter as I'm not buyin it now, but... What?

 

[Puruzi]

Soul Bubbles in English:


Soul Bubbles in Japan:



Coincidentally, a change made by Square-Enix!

Spoiler

And coincidentally, it's also an improvement!

are you saying the art is improved? hell no

If you meant character design, it's still no

 

[Zambayoshi]

Square Enix may have heard the howls of outrage from western feminists over the Tomb Raider "attempted sexual assault" scene and decided to remove all sexual overtones from Bravely Second.

Honestly, it will become as bad as in the anime Shimoneta: A Boring World Where the Concept of Dirty Jokes Doesn't Exist.

Appeasing those who oppose titillation on the grounds it might cause offence is not the way to go. One might tritely suggest that slapping a 'trigger warning' label on the box would be sufficient.

 

[Kaisos]

Source please. I don't doubt what you say but I haven't found anything on this and why

Basically this I guess.

They moved stuff forward from

Spoiler

the second loop

for some reason.

Wait, they took out choices and endings??? But, why?

Just from the sidequests, not the main story.

Square Enix may have heard the howls of outrage from western feminists over the Tomb Raider "attempted sexual assault" scene and decided to remove all sexual overtones from Bravely Second.

All the sex jokes are still there. Only the costumes were changed, and as I explained, this was done much more to keep the game out of the news cycle than to """appease feminists""".

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Square Enix may have heard the howls of outrage from western feminists over the Tomb Raider "attempted sexual assault" scene and decided to remove all sexual overtones from Bravely Second.

LOL yes, I'm sure that's exactly what happened

Spoiler

/s

 

[Dice//]

Square Enix may have heard the howls of outrage from western feminists over the Tomb Raider "attempted sexual assault" scene and decided to remove all sexual overtones from Bravely Second.

Honestly, it will become as bad as in the anime Shimoneta: A Boring World Where the Concept of Dirty Jokes Doesn't Exist.

Appeasing those who oppose titillation on the grounds it might cause offence is not the way to go. One might tritely suggest that slapping a 'trigger warning' label on the box would be sufficient.

Do you honestly believe this will happen and happen soon? Because you're being silly.

 

[SilentRob]

I believe the "15" comment was talking about the ages in the first game on the Japanese side. Given the links you provided, Edea was 15, Tiz was 16, and Agnes was 17 in the first game in Japan. They were all specifically made of age on Western shores.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Didn't actually know that Agnes was 17. The point stands though:

All of these character designs are for underage characters. The character models haven't noticably (to me) changed since the first one, so really, it's not very different to the US release of the first game just saying "nah, they are 3 years older", without actually representing that fact in their physical growth and making them look less like children.

I mean...come on

Seriously, Come on

SERIOUSLY

These are characters that were specificially built to look like children only to then get sexualized as all hell. That shit isn't just weird to me, I don't just dislike it, I find it indefensible. No amount of "artistic integrity" changes the fact that these outfits are created to give people sexual arousal from characters looking like children.

 

[Kaisos]

*snip*

And -this- attitude is exactly why they changed the costumes, lol.

 

[Astarte]

Such a shame because the outfits were pretty qt. The artbook being gutted also is sad, which makes me glad I didn't go for the special edition.
Also Agnes with tan lines is very good, I love it.

 

[Dice//]

These are characters that were specificially built to look like children only to then get sexualized as all hell. That shit isn't just weird to me, I don't just dislike it, I find it indefensible. No amount of "artistic integrity" changes the fact that these outfits are created to give people sexual arousal from characters looking like children.

Well at least the bottom right Agnes' is trying with that little bit of fabric to cover her toosh.

...
Why are any of these necessary.