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[Markoman]

Right? What's your point? You think your current Xbox is two years old so it's obsolete?

If they release a new Xbox One tomorow that runs every game @1080p, then yes absolutely. People don't get that maybe the majority of the 20mio. Xbox users may have bought the console because they know it will last them some time. We can't really say how consumer behaviour might change, once they find out that their console is not up-to-date 2 years after they have bought it.

This strategy will put MS at a huge risk at the hardware side of their gaming business.

 

[Trup1aya]

Well that's what MS will have to fight against, at least during the transition to their new business model.

Imagine the One.5 releases Fall 2016, how will most One owners feel? "Oh cool I'm gonna upgrade" or "damn what's going on, my 3 year old One is already old-school ;("

They'll either upgrade and play prettier versions of the exact same games with the exact same people.

Or they stick with the console they have, and play the exact same games with the exact same people.

It's really not a dilemma.

If they release a new Xbox One tomorow that runs every game @1080p, then yes absolutely. People don't get that maybe the majority of the 20mio. Xbox users may have bought the console because they know it will last them some time. We can't really say how consumer behaviour might change, once they find out that their console is not up-to-date 2 years after they have bought it.

This strategy will put MS at a huge risk at the hardware side of their gaming business.

The point you are missing is that there console will still 'last them some time' if they choose not to update. They'll still have access to all of the latest games. If they want their games to be prettier, they have the option of upgrading.

 

[dancrane212]

Phil Spencer interview with Engadget on the PC/Xbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsOTYqDKGUI

Still early so I may have missed/misinterpreted something but here are the main points I picked out.

Doesn't have a goal of making Xbox and Windows identical - wants "gamers to decide where they want to play their games". Talks about the distinction between playing on a couch with a controller vs a desk and keyboard.

No specific announcement for Halo on PC but they are looking at all their biggest franchise that would work well on PC and console and making them available to both audiences.

Look at what is going on in the PC/Phones (specifically mentions 2 years for phones) ecosystem in terms of visuals and screen technology improving over time as an idea of an iterative console. Making a cheaper and smaller console overtime is "important"* but wants to make sure taking your games with you and games improving is important.

Makes a point that backwards/forwards compatibility is incredibly important. Phil says Microsoft wants that to be a driving force for the platform.

Not a fan of staggered PC releases (can happen due to development though).

Makes a "ton of sense" for a user to buy a game and have it accessible on "multiple Xbox platforms". It would still be something that would be a publisher driven decision on where the games are available.

Battletoads shirt was for Rare Replay and KI not just a tease that he wore a shirt.

*I wonder if the redesigned XB1 is going to have those technical improvements. Not a coexisting hardware update ala iPad 1/2 but one that actively replaces the previous iteration like we are used to with console redesigns.

 

[PG2G]

So why would most hard core gamers just wait for the Xbox with the upgraded GPU that can do 1080/60? Why get the launch console?

Because the launch Xbox is top of the line... at the time. That's like asking why someone would be an iPhone 6 when the iPhone 7 is going to come out in 2 years.

 

[jelly]

Why do people think they are leaving?

Xbox has been under Windows for a while now. Xbox is a consumer brand, nothing Microsoft has is cool or appealing in that way. They are not going to sell Windows 10 PCs for your living room or open Xbox builds to third parties. Microsoft will make and sell Xbox consoles running Windows, like they do now, the only difference is they will release a more powerful one over the normal 6-8 year generation, meaning two Xbox consoles per cycle. It's crazy town to think there will be yearly or two year releases. It's more likely 3-4 years and I believe if there is no case for an upgrade, either because there is no need or innovations in hardware or features at the time are lacking, Microsoft won't bother releasing a newer console and wait longer. Nothing is set in stone.

Looking at Xbox One now, Microsoft should have done better and they don't want to be stuck with it for 6-8 years always fighting an uphill struggle with performance so they'll release something better. You will still have a good experience on Xbox One but they will have raised the ceiling for the new model, and new buyers can get that or buy an old one but you'll be supported through a generation either way.

 

[gamz]

Well that's what MS will have to fight against, at least during the transition to their new business model.

Imagine the One.5 releases Fall 2016, how will most One owners feel? "Oh cool I'm gonna upgrade" or "damn what's going on, my 3 year old One is already old-school ;("

I felt that when I bought gen 1 of the 360. No HDMI or built in WIFI! My PS3 has that man! I just bought the next ver of it.

 

[VincentMatts]

What im trying to figure out is why would MS go the "upgradable" hardware route when they could simply go the streaming route a la psnow/netflix?

They could sell you a 99$ box that you just plug on your TV and have all the real hardware on their end that they could upgrade whenever they wanted without it affecting the user.

To me this HW upgrade stuff doesnt really make any sense (long term) when you compare it to a streaming service which (to me) is clearly the future.

 

[jond76]

As long as they dont take out the tv passthrough. I can't imagine going back now.

 

[QaaQer]

While I don't agree that MS is "leaving" the console market, lets play around with that idea:

Is that not the smart thing to do anyway?

I really don't see consoles existing in the traditional sense past whatever next-gen brings.

Honestly I believe that sooner or later its all gonna converge into a singular device, much like smartphones have, and that device in its current form is what we call a PC.

Not really an expert on tech, but from what I'm seeing MS do with their work on augmented reality and these recent shifts towards W10>everything suggests MS is not playing the "keep all the forums and websites happy with our immediate decisions" game, they are far more interested in planting the seeds that give them Iphone/Apple levels of success within the next decade.

And this talk of MS being "directionless" is flat out BS to anyone who's been watching since Nadella took over.

?

PCs are becoming more irrelevant everyday. Businesses use the cloud, people use mobile.

MS has a solid cloud presence and really good ecosystem lockin, so they are fine there.

wrt mobile, it has been a disaster. There is urgency there, and that is why everything consumer oriented is being used to further that. Will they succeed? Office and Windows are still powerful, but they are starting almost from zero in mobile, so who knows.

 

[ironcreed]

To all those saying Microsoft wants to exit the console market quietly, why on earth wouldn't they just sell the Xbox business for $5-$10bn instead of putting it out to pasture? Or do what they did with Nokia and say "We're writing off $5bn"?

If they were dropping gaming (which is, until these announcements, basically the same as their console business) then they'd have to make a shareholder announcement.

Some people just really want them to. But they are going to be disappointed when they see that their new systems still function like consoles when it comes to plug and play. Just as Phil said he wants them to. Yet somehow Microsoft evolving their strategy and releasing systems with upgrades a bit more frequently means Xbox is dead, I guess.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Phil Spencer interview with Engadget on the PC/Xbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsOTYqDKGUI

Still early so I may have missed/misinterpreted something but here are the main points I picked out.



*I wonder if the redesigned XB1 is going to have those technical improvements. Not a coexisting hardware update ala iPad 1/2 but one that actively replaces the previous iteration like we are used to with console redesigns.

This is exactly what I expect, more or less, you might have 6 months or so where both are around. But improvements hand in hand with the usual remodelled versions of last gen.

 

[Trup1aya]

What im trying to figure out is why would MS go the "upgradable" hardware route when they could simply go the streaming route a la psnow/netflix?

They could sell you a 99$ box that you just plug on your TV and have all the real hardware on their end that they could upgrade whenever they wanted without it affecting the user.

To me this HW upgrade stuff doesnt really make any sense (long term) when you compare it to a streaming service which (to me) is clearly the future.

I think we can look at PSNow and see why they wouldn't be going all in with streaming services.

it is the future obviously. But the infrastructure isn't ready to support it at a quality and price that consumers are willing to embrace.

 

[Caipirinha]

You do realize that Surface is a billion dollar business, right?

Which is a fraction of the revenue they need from securing enterprise's dependence on Office and Windows during the leap to tablets and other mobile devices. It's all about Office and Windows and whatever other services they will provide, but primarily the former two, they are the bread and butter of Microsoft, the entire reason the company exists, and by farrrrrrrr the largest source of income.

Under Ballmer the idea was to branch out into devices, including taking over the living room. They failed, and many of those markets have still not really taken off yet, the management was restructured and the emphasis has been switched back to the bread and butter productivity and OS - the days for the Xbox were numbered anyway, even if the Xbox One had sold better than it did it just isn't where that company is going.

 

[Markoman]

Because the launch Xbox is top of the line... at the time. That's like asking why someone would be an iPhone 6 when the iPhone 7 is going to come out in 2 years.

No, it won't.
Don't want to adress PCs for the 100th time here.
Just look at the diminishing return discussion.
How great will the technical improvements be in 2-year cycles? Every gen will be cross-gen for devs. You will have even less technical major innovations in AAA games.
Your iphone argument doesn't work at least for me - still on 4s because I dislike the size and design of iphone 5+6 and my 4s still works. The changes/improvements are only minor if you are not an Apple disciple.

 

[Zeta Oni]

Well that's what MS will have to fight against, at least during the transition to their new business model.

Imagine the One.5 releases Fall 2016, how will most One owners feel? "Oh cool I'm gonna upgrade" or "damn what's going on, my 3 year old One is already old-school ;("

Anecdotal, but as someone who worked at a game centered store:

All the people saying "omg your average console player is gonna be confused/upset about all this" is not really accurate in my experience.

The convo will go something like this:

"Hey I wanna buy an Xbox, tell me a bit about it"

"Ok Miss/Mister, basically its a console, and instead of waiting the better part of a decade for an improvement, Xbox is releasing an updated version every 3 years that improves the performance, much like a smartphone revision."

"well can i still play the newest games when that version comes out? I don't want to be forced to upgrade"

"yes you can"

"oh....Ok, I'll take one Xbox with a side of almost no confusion"

Done.

Spoiler

(yes I know I called MS "Xbox", if you have worked selling games and consoles, you know why)

?

PCs are becoming more irrelevant everyday. Businesses use the cloud, people use mobile.

MS has a solid cloud presence and really good ecosystem lockin, so they are fine there.

wrt mobile, it has been a disaster. There is urgency there, and that is why everything consumer oriented is being used to further that. Will they succeed? Office and Windows are still powerful, but they are starting almost from zero in mobile, so who knows.

That's why I said what we currently call a PC. I believe if you had a timeline of future devices for both mobile and PC tech, it will certainly converge to one line.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Phil Spencer interview with Engadget on the PC/Xbox.

[...] Talks about the distinction between playing on a couch with a controller vs a desk and keyboard. Wants to have Wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsOTYqDKGUI

Still early so I may have missed/misinterpreted something but here are the main points I picked out.



*I wonder if the redesigned XB1 is going to have those technical improvements. Not a coexisting hardware update ala iPad 1/2 but one that actively replaces the previous iteration like we are used to with console redesigns.

lol

 

[chubigans]

That makes no sense. Their 'Xbox branded Windows boxes' he speaks of will be consoles. There easiest way to get a profit from their store is to have a cheap, gaming dedicated device, that only access their store... They aren't going to abandon that opportunity.

As ever, great insight from you. Bolded though - it all depends on your definition of console. If it looks like a console, smells like a console and quacks like a console... then... it's a console.

It's certainly a major paradigm shift from the traditional model... and potentially a move away from specialist hardware to more of a commodity hardware (which is something not really touched on in this thread yet other than indirectly).

Indeed, to clarify I do think they'll have some kind of system out there that definitely fits the idea of what we define as a console. But it will be a huge, huge shift from what the XB1 is today, and will likely be a PC in a box at that point (hardware wise, PS4/XB1 is already close to that, except for the proprietary OS they're both running).

It's kind of funny because MS has already been kind of doing this with their controller...they had the standard pad at launch, then released an improved model with better bumpers, then another version with a mic port built in so you didn't have to use an adapter, and finally an Elite model with new hardware and more software options built into the OS for a much more premium price.

 

[dancrane212]

lol

Whoops.

 

[Caipirinha]

If they release a new Xbox One tomorow that runs every game @1080p, then yes absolutely. People don't get that maybe the majority of the 20mio. Xbox users may have bought the console because they know it will last them some time. We can't really say how consumer behaviour might change, once they find out that their console is not up-to-date 2 years after they have bought it.

This strategy will put MS at a huge risk at the hardware side of their gaming business.

So it's a good job they are leaving that business, in which case any residual value they can get from the Xbox One is just a bonus.

Turning it into a Windows box with little direct support is a cheap way to eek out extra value from their remaining stock and if a big enough group of enthusiasts take to the product then sure they can have an updated SKU. Otherwise they'll probably manage to maintain sales of existing stock longer than they would if they just did a straight up Sega. Best case scenario there is enough interest in this model that Microsoft have a little "Windows Box" business on the side, normal case scenario is it sells to hobbyists in great enough number for an updated SKU or two, but has no impact on the gaming scene and for all intents and purposes Microsoft leaves gaming hardware entirely bar controllers, and worst case scenario sales for the Xbox One dry up so quickly that they just transition fully back to the PC within a year or two.

 

[phil_t98]

I think this could be a good thing for gamers, things can change so much. will the xboxone still be playable damn right.

Interesting question how often do PC gamers changer their graphics cards?
genuine question I would guess it be every couple of years so why not console do the same, I know this is something new to the console market but surely its worth a try at least

 

[gamz]

Which is a fraction of the revenue they need from securing enterprise's dependence on Office and Windows during the leap to tablets and other mobile devices. It's all about Office and Windows and whatever other services they will provide, but primarily the former two, they are the bread and butter of Microsoft, the entire reason the company exists, and by farrrrrrrr the largest source of income.

Under Ballmer the idea was to branch out into devices, including taking over the living room. They failed, and many of those markets have still not really taken off yet, the management was restructured and the emphasis has been switched back to the bread and butter productivity and OS - the days for the Xbox were numbered anyway, even if the Xbox One had sold better than it did it just isn't where that company is going.

But it's still a billion dollar business that they aren't leaving anytime soon. Same goes for Xbox. Why leave a sector that still sells.

 

[Caipirinha]

But it's still a billion dollar business that they aren't leaving anytime soon. Same goes for Xbox. Why leave a sector that still sells.

Because they probably think that all those assets and resources they have in the Xbox division can be better used in a push for PC gaming dominance and they want to take as much of their console market with them as possible. Besides hasn't the Xbox division lost money for most of it's existence?

If I was them I'd get this Windows software update ready for E3, announce it with a price drop and lean on some PC game devs to patch in controller support for stage demos and talk up the "Windows 10 universe". Shift that remaining Xbox One stock then get on with trying to secure their home ground in the PC market. Give it about 6 months of occasional "bright future for Xbox One, just look at [insert PC titles with controller support] coming soon!" before switching the public narrative entirely to PC. I'd be willing to bet that's exactly what they do.

Markting is so expensive it will probably be minimal for the Xbox One from here on out, and exclusive content that isn't already in production is basically done.

 

[QaaQer]

That's why I said what we currently call a PC. I believe if you had a timeline of future devices for both mobile and PC tech, it will certainly converge to one line.

I see it as "what we currently call a phone." Tomato tomatoh I guess.

 

[gamz]

Because they probably think that all those assets and resources they have in the Xbox division can be better used in a push for PC gaming dominance and they want to take as much of their console market with them as possible. Besides hasn't the Xbox division lost money for most of it's existence?

If I was them I'd get this Windows software update ready for E3, announce it with a price drop and lean on some PC game devs to patch in controller support for stage demos and talk up the "Windows 10" universe. Shift that remaining Xbox One stock then get on with trying to secure their home ground in the PC market. Give it about 6 months of occasional "bright future for Xbox One, just like at [insert PC titles with controller support]" before switching the public narrative entirely to PC. I'd be willing to bet that's exactly what they do.

Ah. Give up on a system that is going to sell units to push software. That's sound advice.

Sounds to me they are being more innovative in the home console market and that's what the console market needs.

Edit: Yeah MS and Sony both lost their ass last generation by taking a loss on the consoles. MS lost 3B and Sony 5B. Thus we have the new generation and much less and cheaper tech. No more losses per console sold.

 

[Sydle]

Because they probably think that all those assets and resources they have in the Xbox division can be better used in a push for PC gaming dominance and they want to take as much of their console market with them as possible. Besides hasn't the Xbox division lost money for most of it's existence?

If I was them I'd get this Windows software update ready for E3, announce it with a price drop and lean on some PC game devs to patch in controller support for stage demos and talk up the "Windows 10" universe. Shift that remaining Xbox One stock then get on with trying to secure their home ground in the PC market. Give it about 6 months of occasional "bright future for Xbox One, just like at [insert PC titles with controller support]" before switching the public narrative entirely to PC. I'd be willing to bet that's exactly what they do.

They're not going to double down on a single device. They're going to broaden development efforts to even more Windows 10 devices.

On paper, the Xbox Store revenue rolls into the Windows Store. Today Xbox gamers are highly likely their most lucrative customers. They're not going to drop those customers or give them up anytime soon.

 

[PG2G]

Still don't see why people consider this them wanting to get out of the console market. This is just them converging PC and console into one. Maybe its better if we use the terms office vs limit room, since they are all technically PCs.

Do you guys really think Microsoft intends to give up their spot in the living room?

 

[Caipirinha]

Ah. Give up on a system that is going to sell units to push software. That's sound advice.

They're bothered about Windows 10 primarily, they're not bothered about the home console market that's why they have just announced there will be no successor. If the Xbox One makes any money as a Windows box then sure you will see some updated SKUs, but that's the most you will see out of the Xbox in terms of hardware.

Come on dude you know that they are not really trying to change the console market here, this is not how you announce something like that and not the language you use to describe a campaign like that. This is cutting their losses and it makes perfect sense from the perspective of the wider company situation. It would make no sense in the context of the corporate restructuring, the financial realities (limitations) of the console market, Microsoft's real battles with Apple and Google etc.

 

[Caipirinha]

Do you guys really think Microsoft intends to give up their spot in the living room?

The living room does not necessarily = high end gaming. We have all known they are preparing an Apple TV competitor with a similar price and internal specs as that product and the other immediate rivals.

That's their living room push.

 

[jelly]

Because they probably think that all those assets and resources they have in the Xbox division can be better used in a push for PC gaming dominance and they want to take as much of their console market with them as possible. Besides hasn't the Xbox division lost money for most of it's existence?

If I was them I'd get this Windows software update ready for E3, announce it with a price drop and lean on some PC game devs to patch in controller support for stage demos and talk up the "Windows 10 universe". Shift that remaining Xbox One stock then get on with trying to secure their home ground in the PC market. Give it about 6 months of occasional "bright future for Xbox One, just like at [insert PC titles with controller support]" before switching the public narrative entirely to PC. I'd be willing to bet that's exactly what they do.

Markting is so expensive it will probably be minimal for the Xbox One from here on out, and exclusive content that isn't already in production is basically done.

They can't market a PC for pick up and play in your living room etc. It just doesn't work for marketing to consumers. Xbox is the consumer product, Xbox consoles are the hardware. Nothing else works. Windows 10 is the thing that holds the wider ecosystem together but the push to consumers will remain Xbox and Windows 10. PC is about the most boring thing they could use and fall flat.

 

[PG2G]

The living room does not necessarily = high end gaming. We have all known they are preparing an Apple TV competitor with a similar price and internal specs as that product and the other immediate rivals.

That's their living room push.

You're making a lot of assumptions

 

[Trup1aya]

Indeed, to clarify I do think they'll have some kind of system out there that definitely fits the idea of what we define as a console. But it will be a huge, huge shift from what the XB1 is today, and will likely be a PC in a box at that point (hardware wise, PS4/XB1 is already close to that, except for the proprietary OS they're both running).

It's kind of funny because MS has already been kind of doing this with their controller...they had the standard pad at launch, then released an improved model with better bumpers, then another version with a mic port built in so you didn't have to use an adapter, and finally an Elite model with new hardware and more software options built into the OS for a much more premium price.

Well in this sense we are arguing semantics, yet agreeing on principle.

It is a large shift in strategy, but they are targeting the exact same market. What's most interesting is that they are leveraging their presence in two different markets in an attempt to bring success in both of them. And I agree, it is smart.

But I just don't think it's accurate to say they are exiting the console market. More they are changing how they approach competing in the market.

 

[gamz]

They're bothered about Windows 10 primarily, they're not bothered about the home console market that's why they have just announced there will be no successor. If the Xbox One makes any money as a Windows box then sure you will see some updated SKUs, but that's the most you will see out of the Xbox in terms of hardware.

Come on dude you know that they are not really trying to change the console market here, this is not how you announce something like that and not the language you use to describe a campaign like that. This is cutting their losses and it makes perfect sense from the perspective of the wider company situation. It would make no sense in the context of the corporate restructuring, the financial realities (limitations) of the console market, Microsoft's real battles with Apple and Google etc.

No dude, they are not. You don't cut your loses by trying to innovate the console market. Sorry, not going to happen.

 

[Caipirinha]

They can't market a PC for pick up and play in your living room etc. It just doesn't work for marketing to consumers. Xbox is the consumer product, Xbox consoles are the hardware. Nothing else works. Windows 10 is the thing that holds the wider ecosystem together but the push to consumers will remain Xbox and Windows 10. PC is about the most boring thing they could use and fall flat.

They are leaving the pick up and play, high end gaming market, also known as the console market. That's what this is.

You guys are massively exaggerating the importance of console gaming to Microsoft.

No dude, they are not. You don't cut your loses by trying to innovate the console market. Sorry, not going to happen.

Yeah because they aren't.

I'm just trying to keep expectations in check. See you at E3.

 

[ironcreed]

Still don't see why people consider this them wanting to get out of the console market. This is just them converging PC and console into one. Maybe its better if we use the terms office vs limit room, since they are all technically PCs.

Do you guys really think Microsoft intends to give up their spot in the living room?

No. As you said, this is merely Windows and Xbox merging. Which has long been in the works for anyone paying attention. They are also evolving beyond the old generational model to one that will allow people to upgrade a bit sooner if they wish and take their library with them. But somehow all of these great things means that they are leaving, lol. A lot of 'wishful thinking' going on, that is for sure. But it's hardly a shock to see.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

Cite the example where the company splitting games between platforms, owned both platforms, also had the core OS shared between both platforms.

I can't, which is why I said "Microsoft is trying something new". However, games going multiplatform and a de-emphasis of a console has happened plenty of times before, and it has never worked out in the favor of the console. That much is true and has countless historical examples. Our most recent examples are the Wii U (development shifted to bolster the 3DS, multiple ports and multiplatform gams moved to 3DS) and the Vita (lots of former exclusives moved to PS4, cross-buy and cross-play implemented to help bolster the library).

I'm not saying the Vita/Wii-U and Xbox One situations are identifcal, so let's refrain from latching on to that and putting words into my mouth. Am I saying they're similar? Yes. Am I saying Xbox's recent moves are -- historically -- detrimental to the long-term health of a console? Yes. Time will tell if Microsoft's approach can buck the trend. However, let's not close our eyes and pretend these trends do not exist.

Microsoft's goals for the XBox division seems to be more about blocking what is happening in mobile happening in the living room. That's not to say that they don't want money (it is M$ after all).

This is a "if the shoe fits" situation. I do not deny what Microsoft has said in public PR releases about their plans for the Xbox division. I am simply pointing out an obvious truth because the timing of these moves is suspicious.

See the answer to #2

Okay.

While this may well be true, look to Microsoft's recent moves around Hardware. For tablets/laptops they didn't trust 3rd party manufacturers to come up with premium hardware so they built the Surface line. On the Phone side, they were sick of Vendors using phones made for android and throwing WP on it.

By your own logic, Microsoft could have been moving into the mobile/tablet market because there was lucrative money to be made and therefore decided to make the hardware. Making console hardware doesn't seem to be in Microsoft's best interests any more. Therefore, what long-term reason do they have to keep making it any more? If they can get most/all of the benefits of a console (closed marketspace, licenses, mindshare, etc) by moving to a "platform" that isn't tied to any specific hardware, what incentive do they have to focus on that console?

This particular piece doesn't "prove" them leaving consoles, but it does highlight the fact that they are distancing themselves from the traditional console business model. Does anyone disagree with that previous statement? Does ANYONE believe these recent moves are in line with the "traditional console business model"?

skepticism should always be forgiven, but this is borderline assuming the worst will come true. If you think that MS hasn't innovated in the gaming space, then perhaps you should do a bit more research first.

Who said it's "the worst"? Microsoft would be adding a lot of benefits if they take this idea to fruition. It has been stated plenty of times in better words than mine, but there are plenty of PC and XBox gamers who are thrilled by the idea of having unified game ownership, regular hardware updates, etc.

When you say "borderline assuming the worst", by saying "worst" do you mean "Microsoft distancing itself from consoles"? Because that's already happening as we can clearly see.

If you mean "worst" by "Microsoft leaving the console space" that has its own advantages.

It seems like you're assuming the worst intentions out of posters in this thread, which has been a remarkably civil thread as far as I'm concerned. People are just stating facts. Some people are countering those facts with speculations and hopeful thinking (on both sides). But for the most part, this thread is pretty well-grounded in the factual.

I 100% agree with this, but jumping to the conclusion that MS is leaving the hardware space based on not much more than feelings, is intellectually dishonest at best.

Dismissing concerns as "not much more than feelings" is intellectually dishonest at best. These aren't feelings. I don't have a "gut instinct" and nothing more. Plenty of legitiamte points -- both logical and based on Microsoft's own historical trends -- have been brought up in this topic.

If anything, the statements "I feel like Microsoft is trying to approach consoles in a fresh, new way" that are illogical and based in nothing but feelings and PR.

 

[ironcreed]

They are leaving the pick up and play, high end gaming market, also known as the console market. That's what this is.

No, because these devices will still function like that. As Phil even said that he sees the distinction of what makes a console a console and still wants to retain that. But whatever.

 

[Markoman]

So it's a good job they are leaving that business, in which case any residual value they can get from the Xbox One is just a bonus.

Turning it into a Windows box with little direct support is a cheap way to eek out extra value from their remaining stock and if a big enough group of enthusiasts take to the product then sure they can have an updated SKU. Otherwise they'll probably manage to maintain sales of existing stock longer than they would if they just did a straight up Sega. Best case scenario there is enough interest in this model that Microsoft have a little "Windows Box" business on the side, normal case scenario is it sells to hobbyists in great enough number for an updated SKU or two, but has no impact on the gaming scene and for all intents and purposes Microsoft leaves gaming hardware entirely bar controllers, and worst case scenario sales for the Xbox One dry up so quickly that they just transition fully back to the PC within a year or two.

Exactly this, thank you.

They'll either upgrade and play prettier versions of the exact same games with the exact same people.

Or they stick with the console they have, and play the exact same games with the exact same people.

It's really not a dilemma.



The point you are missing is that there console will still 'last them some time' if they choose not to update. They'll still have access to all of the latest games. If they want their games to be prettier, they have the option of upgrading.

No there's no point I'm missing. The discussion in this thread is starting to run in circles.
Let's agree on this one : We don't know how customers will react to this

a) Xbox Brand will grow, more sales+ shares
b) Xbox Brand will stay on the same level, equal sales + shares
c) Xbox Brand will decrease, less sales + shares

So, all I'm trying to say that I'm betting on 'c', because
- I don't see how things will change world-wide just because there will be more Xboxes. (EU and Asia still won't care or even less, because countries like Germany and Korea prefer PCs)
- the average uninformed Joes will go out and buy Xbox2 at launch. Once they find out that a new model is already on the way after 1 year and a half, they might get pissed, because not everyone is able or willing to spent 400$ every 2 years on a console. Once, again maybe this is the main reason why consoles exist today in the first place
- the 'maybe I should wait to get more for my $' mentality may become the nail in the coffin. Yes, the old Xbox 2 still runs all the games. Wait two years and you can play all the games you have missed at better quality. See, this can go both ways....

 

[ZOONAMI]

No, it won't.
Don't want to adress PCs for the 100th time here.
Just look at the diminishing return discussion.
How great will the technical improvements be in 2-year cycles? Every gen will be cross-gen for devs. You will have even less technical major innovations in AAA games.
Your iphone argument doesn't work at least for me - still on 4s because I dislike the size and design of iphone 5+6 and my 4s still works. The changes/improvements are only minor if you are not an Apple disciple.

I had a 4s for 2 years and it could barely hold a charge. Can't imagine having it for 2.5 years longer.

 

[Caipirinha]

If anything, the statements "I feel like Microsoft is trying to approach consoles in a fresh, new way" that are illogical and based in nothing but feelings and PR.

This ^ and what's worse is I don't get the impression MS are really trying to spin this particularly hard themselves, but I suppose you can expect that hardcore niche in the gaming world to do that job for them even if they never planned to themselves. Shareholders and traders probably don't look too hard at the Xbox when it comes to valuing the company, but all the same I think management has decided to face the commercial failure of the Xbox One head on and not try to draw this out too much longer.

Their relative bluntness lately makes me think that things are going to be a lot harder to ignore after their E3 presser.

 

[gamz]

Yeah because they aren't.

I'm just trying to keep expectations in check. See you at E3.

LOL. We'll see.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

They're not going to double down on a single device. They're going to broaden development efforts to even more Windows 10 devices.

On paper, the Xbox Store revenue rolls into the Windows Store. Today Xbox gamers are highly likely their most lucrative customers. They're not going to drop those customers or give them up anytime soon.

Very insightful point.

If -- and just work with me here -- Microsoft was trying to move away from consoles (due to the cost and misalignment with their overall strategy) while still doing whatever they could to save those lucrative customers and possibly bring them over to their new ecosystem, how do you think they might go about that?

Do you think it might look like what we're seeing now? At a minimum, would you agree that what Microsoft is doing now lays the groundwork for that possibility, even if they don't end up abandoning consoles?

 

[jelly]

They are leaving the pick up and play, high end gaming market, also known as the console market. That's what this is.

You guys are massively exaggerating the importance of console gaming to Microsoft.



Yeah because they aren't.

I'm just trying to keep expectations in check. See you at E3.

Console gamers are probably their most valuable consumer customers. Releasing a new console that is better than Xbox One means they aren't leaving high end gaming.

 

[gamz]

No, because these devices will still function like that. As Phil even said that he sees the distinction of what makes a console a console and still wants to retain that. But whatever.

Exactly. Esp now when the console market is ripe for innovation.

It's not like Xbox doesn't have a history of innovation for consoles or anything.

 

[rekameohs]

Huh, I kinda thought that NX would take a similar approach to this. The future will be interesting.

 

[ironcreed]

Console gamers are probably their most valuable consumer customers. Releasing a new console that is better than Xbox One means they aren't leaving high end gaming.

If anything, they are embracing it even more by trying to bring Xbox and PC gaming together.

 

[Via Purifico]

Not sure if I like this, but I guess I'll have to wait and see how they implement this.

 

[Markoman]

Wait, this could get really interesting!

Remember all the console wars threads 'game x runs 1080p on PS4, and 900p on XboxOne' with the obligatory PC elitists stepping by and putting the fighting console peasants back into place?

With different Xbox models on the market, will we finally see some sort of console-civil-war, where Xbox2.5 owners start shitting on Xbox2 owners?

Just for entertainment purposes, MS pls. do this.

 

[clem84]

The main reason I don't game on PCs or smartphones is knowing there will be something newer and better next year. You don't get the feeling you're making a very good investment. If they ever decide to make the Xbox line of product similar to this, they can count me out.

 

[gamz]

If anything, they are embracing it even more by trying to bring Xbox and PC gaming together.

Which is a natural evolution. They are going that way anyway.

 

[ZOONAMI]

The living room does not necessarily = high end gaming. We have all known they are preparing an Apple TV competitor with a similar price and internal specs as that product and the other immediate rivals.

That's their living room push.

I think MS is aware that Xbox One doesn't equate to high end gaming, part of why they want to release an upgraded device You can have different products in the same living room segment. MS doesn't have to limit themselves to one SKU in the living room. Hell, Sony has way more skus in the living room considering all their tv and blu-ray models. I think they are trying to capture a larger audience. MS having a streaming box, xbox one, and a higher end Xbox is not that crazy. Consoles have been becoming PCs for a long time now, I fail to see how it's such a surprise.

My guess is even the lower end device will be a Windows PC with a media mode. They want to get Windows into the living room, and also at wider variety of price points for computing in general. A $300 Xbox one windows 10 desktop is actually a pretty damn good deal imo. A $149 Windows budget PC would be cool too. A $500-$750 higher end Windows 10/11 Xbox is cool too.

Maybe we should all wait and see what they come up with before shitting all over theoretical devices. Maybe when MS reveals them the reaction might be, OK that looks pretty damn cool.