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[Bernardougf]

It is going to be interesting to see by what metrics Microsoft comes up with to back up this claim. I can damn well guarantee that you won't be able to point to that technological leap like you could from PS1 to PS2.

I don't think Sarah Bond is doing herself any favors by pitching their next console like this. Not starting out too great there, Sarah.

She learned how to bullshit and mislead from the best

 

[Esppiral]

It’s always the best, biggest, and most powerful with Xbox…

They always overpromise and underdeliver.

The PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 where released by Sony dude.

 

[havoc00]

how do they keep doing it? Releasing the most powerful console

 

[Roberts]

It's nice to hear that they have decided to stay in hardware business. As long as it gets all the perks XSX has and does something new, I'm totally in. Maybe will get the handheld for my daughter.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I think I saw someone say that a PS6 in 2028 would more than likely be 50 TFs. That's what any company should be shooting for with a next-gen console. With a Zen5 proc and 32 GBs of stack RAM.

How does they translate to games? Because for number of years now the graphical (let’s not kid ourselves, you sell graphics to 90% of people) improvements have stalled.

 

[navii]

I can't see how this "largest technical leap ever" working out unless its

A. Some clever wording around the hybrid cloud compute compute from the leaks. That one is interesting.
B. They went balls to the wall high end components, which will be expensive. Also interesting.

Hoping to see some differentiation at least. Both going to AMD to get what is almost the same console as is boring.

It’s down to how they define “technical”.

Let’s say ps1 to ps2 jump was 400% more polygons per second. So you would think the next gen Xbox would need to push more than 400% more polys per recond. But they could refer to teraflops where the jump from ps1 to ps2 was 2 teraflops. So a jump of 3 teraflops for next gen Xbox would be the largest jump ever because no other console gen ever jumped up by more than 3 teraflops.

I don’t know the real numbers of anything, just doing imaginary examples.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Thats the talk I like to hear. Can't wait to see it in a couple of years

 

[Jayjayhd34]

I don't see point not just releasling loads like gpus that does very well that strategy. It would if could buy somthing for like 2 grand that compares to rtx4080 that twist lot pc players around pc that powerful maybe bit bigger series would be cool

 

[Von Hugh]

What Phil Spencer doesn't know, is that it's only about the games. Always has been.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I can't see how this "largest technical leap ever" working out unless its

A. Some clever wording around the hybrid cloud compute compute from the leaks. That one is interesting.
B. They went balls to the wall high end components, which will be expensive. Also interesting.

Hoping to see some differentiation at least. Both going to AMD to get what is almost the same console as is boring.

Guys, you are reading too much into it. It's going to be the same thing as "power of the cloud" or countless other promises Microsoft has made regarding Xbox over the years. Every year it's "the year of the Xbox". The team there is:

A. Making huge blunders (betting everything on GP reaching critical mass, which in turn killed software sales) - this on its own wouldn't be so bad, but it looks to me like the downside (dead to software sales because "wait till it's on GP") was either downplayed or it didn't occur to anyone ;
B. Not capitalizing on successes (X360 followed by XBONE)

To me the whole management needs to be changed, it seems obvious people currently in charge do not have much success.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

it seems weird to tease this now or are they just waving the white flag on sales for the Series consoles?

Given that the past fortnight has been full of speculation that they're due to leave the hardware market,
saying they're working on the next generation of hardware seems a fairly good way to dismiss that.

To some degree, the console warriors will say that they're lying no matter what they say, but this seems a fairly undisputable way of saying "we're sticking around and making the things that Xbox fans want."

 

[AV]

Almost certain Phil's "exciting hardware" is the universal controller they've had on their roadmap for the end of this fiscal year.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

The PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 where released by Sony dude.

Oof, right in the emotion engine.

 

[SJRB]

Not this shit again?

Fucking morons still don't seem to understand that ULTIMATE POWEEEEERRRRRR in a console means nothing when you can only play dogshit games on it. Nobody cares about your terraflops when the games you release for it are actual flops.

Maybe try making some good games for a change? Sounds wild, I know.

Follow me for more business insights.

 

[Zuzu]

I'm definitely interested in both the console and the handheld. Hopefully the handheld will have quick resume and it would be awesome if it could have the ability to directly connect to the console and remote play around the house as well as natively run games.

Also can't wait for the new controller

 

[sncvsrtoip]

lol The leaps are getting smaller and smaller. We would be lucky to get a 40 tflops console in 2027. Thats less than 4x leap. These people need to understand how to set expectations.

In terms of machine learning and ray tracing capabilities jump can be quite significant

 

[NEbeast]

"We are so back".
Yup, all the way back in third place.
Holy shit, its hilarious seeing people say the same thing for nearly a decade.

 

[TheRedRiders]

I think both Sony and Microsoft will have less of an obsession with next-gen in regards to doubling FP32 compute performance - the next-gen paradigm shift will be more towards domain specific hardware accelerators especially for things like machine learning, up-sampling (resolution and textures) and ray-tracing.

If they hit the nail on the head with ML than they can at the very least double the in-game performance over the PS5 regardless of diminishing returns.

 

[Gudji]

how do they keep doing it? Releasing the most powerful console

They release one console and then wait a few years for technology to evolve and release a new one.

Then they proceed to order someone to open photoshop and write stuff like "The most powerful Xbox console ever".

 

[buenoblue]

lol The leaps are getting smaller and smaller. We would be lucky to get a 40 tflops console in 2027. Thats less than 4x leap. These people need to understand how to set expectations.

I know right. How could anyone enjoy a game on less than 40 Terra flops. Disgusting

 

[Hydrargyrus]

Yeah, because being the most powerful console this gen has work wonders as you can see and every game is the proof of that.
Besides, make two more sku's to your catalog can't be, by any means, a bad decision and developers are going to take it open arms. No question.

 

[Skifi28]

It's hard to doubt them, they certainly have experience delivering the world's most powerful console.

Can't wait for the Xbox power king meme threads of 2026.

We are so back, boys.

Just don't make the mistake of ever reading through the old one, it has not aged well.

 

[Skifi28]

Double post.

 

[Darsxx82]

Nothing will beat the era from 2D - 3D. A transformational leap.

PS1/Saturn/N64. to PS2/Dreamcast/Xbox/Gc was absolutely great too. But yes, the move from 2D to 3D was transformative

I don't think Sarah Bond is doing herself any favors by pitching their next console like this. Not starting out too great there, Sarah.

I think her attitude has to do with the need to silence the rumors and speculations spread on social networks that MS either stopped making console hardware or it was only residual, that it abandoned the competition in terms of power and launching low-power devices.

But yes, it got a little out of hand in that momentum or she has high hopes for hybrid physical+cloud hardware....

P.S. No one else has had the feeling that their bet with the next NextGen is going to be "traditional" again??. It doesn't seem like the idea is an advance to 2026 of course. A hybrid PC/console maybe but not for 2026

Perhaps at the end of the year with the "Hardware update" we will have more light on that aspect.

 

[panda-zebra]

Nothing makes sense here. With diminishing returns we already have trouble seeing the difference with PS4 / Xbox One games right now, it will only get worse. Impressive technical gaps are a thing of the past.

Then there's the question of who would buy that. Now that Xbox games are starting to come on other platforms, while hardware sales were already pretty low before the new strategy, why would you buy that instead of the competitor platform that will basically get every game ?

Unless you absolutely want to play every Xbox game day 1, more than anything else. But the target seems to be a pretty small group of gamers.

There will be a near decade of AI/ML advances that automagically improve performance, so for once I don't doubt this will be "the biggest technological leap between gens" and that the higher spec hardware will actually be put to work in making games perform far better and look way better than whatever low-grade/old crap they're also running on. This claim of the leap also essentially confirms they've not got a mid-gen refresh that does anything worthwhile for performance.

Trouble is they won't be doing this in isolation, they won't have an exclusive lock on these technologies, so they're right back to square one. They'll be available to all platformholders for their next machines, and we're hopefully going to be seeing how a little of it goes a long way with Switch 2.

But make no mistake, throwing this little claim in there with all the other stuff has one laser-focussed purpose in mind - a little hook to keep as many as possible believing in an future where xbox hardware is still relevant even if the software becomes ubiquitous.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

The X Pocket, featuring gow 1 and halo 3. Starting from $500 on holiday 2026

 

[lynux3]

Hmm... Sounds familiar.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Holy shit, its hilarious seeing people say the same thing for nearly a decade

 

[Loope]

Mobile phones are a necessity.

Video game consoles are not.

So for your $999 console...

While i get where you're coming from, 1000€ phones are not a necessity but a luxury. You can do the basic things that turns a phone into a necessity with a 200€ phone or less.

I too believe they should go the 900€ route or more, to people that want power and don't a PC. They will never defeat Sony in the mass market.

 

[KungFucius]

New hardware reveal this holiday, so 2026 was always out of the question.

Huh? Why would a series refresh in 2024 negate a possible launch for next gen in 2026?

 

[MrRibeye]

If Phil and Sarah really want "every screen is an Xbox" to happen, they should reach out to Wondershop who are a tech startup from Helsinki and are working on something like that:

A few months ago I was on a video call with them, discussing the design of such a device and how kids games don't require tremendous processing power, so you can cram all of that into a controller. With Xbox rumored shift into ARM that could work well.

 

[Loope]

This is what Microsoft is going to do:

1. The Next-Gen "S" will be even LESS relatively powerful than the current S is versus the X. It will effectively be a dock. Very cheap price, maybe $249 or less.

2. The "S" Dock will have a separate (and/or bundled) screen and controller to play as a handheld. This will cost an additional $150-200.

3. The Next-Gen "X" will be a gaming rig style PC with a few options scaling to the very high end. These will start at $800+

So, in terms of power gulf it will be massive. Sadly, I also think Sony may be trending in this direction too if the rumored handheld is true. The only way Sony will pursue a handheld is if it's compatible with all PS6 games

This would actually be cool

 

[Ozriel]

This is what Microsoft is going to do:

1. The Next-Gen "S" will be even LESS relatively powerful than the current S is versus the X. It will effectively be a dock. Very cheap price, maybe $249 or less.

2. The "S" Dock will have a separate (and/or bundled) screen and controller to play as a handheld. This will cost an additional $150-200.

3. The Next-Gen "X" will be a gaming rig style PC with a few options scaling to the very high end. These will start at $800+

So, in terms of power gulf it will be massive. Sadly, I also think Sony may be trending in this direction too if the rumored handheld is true. The only way Sony will pursue a handheld is if it's compatible with all PS6 games

Nobody’s going to make a console starting at $800+

lol The leaps are getting smaller and smaller. We would be lucky to get a 40 tflops console in 2027. Thats less than 4x leap. These people need to understand how to set expectations.

I suspect at that point we’ll see extreme uses of AI in consoles. Stuff like DLSS 3 will pale in comparison with what will be used in 2028. Add that to massively improved Ray tracing performance, faster memory and I/O and you’ve got yourself a significant leap.

They’ll easily be more than 40tf by 2028. The RTX 4080 from 2022 hits 64tf

 

[Ozriel]

it’s baffling to me that Phil Spencer has managed to lead two utter failures of generations in a row now (this one he’s entirely responsible for) yet is being given yet another chance do they really think third time’s going to be the charm under this existing leadership group?

Microsoft HR confirmed to you that Phil Spencer will lead Xbox for the next generation?

 

[Horseganador]

A machine with zen5 and in a range of 25-30 Tflops for November 2026 would be possible, but it would be quite expensive...

 

[Audiophile]

Hard to get a good fix on MS and their strategy, but as a rough estimate using a theoretical PS6 in 2028*; I think ~45TF makes sense, but the architecture (RDNA6?) will be >2x as efficient vs RDNA2. Pair with a much stronger CPU, twice the RAM, a little over twice the bandwidth and at least twice the storage+I/O speed paired with even better decompression blocks.

The main thing is can they [by then, with AMD(?)] take a 1080p-1440p base image and accelerate AI upscaling with a perceptible result equal to or greater than a well anti-aliased Native 4K+ image; and can they take a 40fps native framerate and consistently frame-gen it up to 120fps with imperceptible latency and artefacting. All with minimal load on the wider hardware.

That way you can spend the equivalent -- I know this is a shaky comparison -- of ~90TF of RDNA2 on a 1080-1440p 40fps image and get a pristine 4K 120fps result. Allowing the bulk of that juice to go towards making the best quality assets and fx.

In addition, layer on heavily accelerated Ray Tracing and even some Path Tracing.

I understand of course that different parts of the chip work together in these operations so you can't just say one thing does this and another thing does that with all resources to itself; and of course the upscaling/frame-gen aren't free (though I expect they'll be better accelerated and more efficient with resources by then). But, as a rough estimate...I think we still see an 10x uptick in terms of what the system can do. It's just that the majority of the pixels will be generated after the initial render.

I think by the time next-gen is in full swing we might only have something like 1/8 or 1/12 of the pixels on screen (spatial+temporal) being "real". And not only that, but the acceleration will be much cheaper in terms of die space/energy and the inferred result will be superior to native.

* That said, I think MS are probably gunning for 2027.

 

[AncientOrigin]

They are making exactly the same mistakes what got them into their situation they are now in.Xbox has the more powerful hardware but they are in this bad situation because there are no games no really good games except a few.They are making the exact the mistake advertising most powerful hardware no one cares if you don’t have lots of good games for it.If you want to change your situation develop lots of high quality games in different genres.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Hard to get a good fix on MS and their strategy, but as a rough estimate using a theoretical PS6 in 2028*; I think ~45TF makes sense, but the architecture (RDNA6?) will be >2x as efficient vs RDNA2. Pair with a much stronger CPU, twice the RAM, a little over twice the bandwidth and at least twice the storage+I/O speed paired with even better decompression blocks.

The main thing is can they [by then, with AMD(?)] take a 1080p-1440p base image and accelerate AI upscaling with a perceptible result equal to or greater than a well anti-aliased Native 4K+ image; and can they take a 40fps native framerate and consistently frame-gen it up to 120fps with imperceptible latency and artefacting. All with minimal load on the wider hardware.

That way you can spend the equivalent -- I know this is a shaky comparison -- of ~90TF of RDNA2 on a 1080-1440p 40fps image and get a pristine 4K 120fps result. Allowing the bulk of that juice to go towards making the best quality assets and fx.

In addition, layer on heavily accelerated Ray Tracing and even some Path Tracing.

I understand of course that different parts of the chip work together in these operations so you can't just say one thing does this and another thing does that with all resources to itself; and of course the upscaling/frame-gen aren't free (though I expect they'll be better accelerated and more efficient with resources by then). But, as a rough estimate...I think we still see an 10x uptick in terms of what the system can do. It's just that the majority of the pixels will be generated after the initial render.

I think by the time next-gen is in full swing we might only have something like 1/8 or 1/12 of the pixels on screen (spatial+temporal) being "real". And not only that, but the acceleration will be much cheaper in terms of die space/energy and the inferred result will be superior to native.

* That said, I think MS are probably gunning for 2027.

Best case scenario for RAM would be 24GB I reckon, and the PS5's I/O bandwidth is already more than enough so I suspect we'll see a moderate bump in that regard to account for the increase in RAM pool.

 

[Yoshi97]

That is a lie, no console generation leap will ever be as big as 2d to 3d or n64/ps1 gen to ps2/gc/xbox/DC gen. Also lol at xbox yet again being all about the promise of specs for its next gen xbox, zip your mouths and make good games you clowns. Also if your xbox series s and x mid gen refresh all digital systems do come out this year and signify an all digital future then I hope no one buys your consoles ever again you piece of filth company. Thank you for reading my rant.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It is going to be interesting to see by what metrics Microsoft comes up with to back up this claim. I can damn well guarantee that you won't be able to point to that technological leap like you could from PS1 to PS2.

I don't think Sarah Bond is doing herself any favors by pitching their next console like this. Not starting out too great there, Sarah.

Almost like no one in their entire camp has a real grasp on how this shit works even going back to the PS5 reveal

And this took two weeks to write up and perfect this heavily scripted event and NO ONE saw that line and thought they should dial it down a bit?

 

[FrankWza]

Almost like no one in their entire camp has a real grasp on how this shit works even going back to the PS5 reveal

And this took two weeks to write up and perfect this heavily scripted event and NO ONE saw that line and thought they should dial it down a bit?

They put out the "worlds most powerful console" and the series s video and pulled both from their sites. I doubt they would be able to edit this podcast without catching a ton of shit this time.

 

[BennyBlanco]

If they launch a Windows handheld that isn’t tethered to their walled garden for a good price Ill probably buy one.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I believe in Sarah Bond

She will deliver the highest quality pixels

 

[CGNoire]

lol The leaps are getting smaller and smaller. We would be lucky to get a 40 tflops console in 2027. Thats less than 4x leap. These people need to understand how to set expectations.

I bet money its some Power of Cloud BS again. "Every gamer is getting there own Billion dollar Server center" nonsense.

 

[BlackTron]

It's sad that mid-gen the best they have to talk about is how next-gen will be "THE BIGGEST LEAP EVAR" sigh

 

[radewagon]

If they launch a Windows handheld that isn’t tethered to their walled garden for a good price Ill probably buy one.

So, you're not buying one then?

 

[gothmog]

It's sad that mid-gen the best they have to talk about is how next-gen will be "THE BIGGEST LEAP EVAR" sigh

Their fanboys will revolt if they don't continually remind the world of their obsession with the power crown.

 

[Topher]

Almost like no one in their entire camp has a real grasp on how this shit works even going back to the PS5 reveal

And this took two weeks to write up and perfect this heavily scripted event and NO ONE saw that line and thought they should dial it down a bit?

It is a headscratcher. Doesn't give me a lot of confidence in these guys if they think they can do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Sarah is likely his replacement.

Well at least they're having wins in the DEI department. Everybody knows that's the only thing that really counts anyway.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Put all that 3rd party shit to bed. The most powerful home console with all the publishers and devs purchased. Never gen gonna be real fun.