xenorevlis
Member
So you're still in the dark, then?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Uncharted 4 preview thread. New footage/info
- Thread starter zsynqx
- Start date
zkorejo
Member
Shooting is amazing in this one. Very smooth, fun and satisfying.
Time to step in the light, shooting is great now.
platina
Member
The models have been confirmed to be the same ever since the "making of Drake" presentation
Only difference is stage light apparently. How they accomplished to render one of thest looking character models on a semi open world game is beyond me.
The models have been confirmed to be the same ever since the "making of Drake" presentation
Only difference is stage light apparently. How they accomplished to render one of thest looking character models on a semi open world game is beyond me.
Isn't the last gameplay pic is in 4K?
Anyway, no, the gameplay model doesn't look as good as the cutscene which is understandable, it's true for almost all games.
You should look into how they get cutscenes looking so good, they are using the same assets in cut scenes and gameplay.
The models just look better in cutscenes because they can rig the lighting, DoF and camera angles to bring out the best minute details.
They've said time and time again that the models are unified.
Cutscene lighting is rigged in a way to show off the SSS, skin shading etc. In gameplay there are a lot of variables that come into play and that's why they look a little different. We can't control the lighting in Game.
Look at Photomode in TLOU, UC:NDC, The order etc. We can rig the scenes so they have the best possible angles on the character models. You look at a Photomode pic and go "wow" but then they look different in gameplay, it's because you can bring out the details through camera angles etc.
I'll even post one of my TLOU screens in about 20 mins.
Edit: Quick and dirty (not very good) comparison showing how rigging a scene can make models look a little better compared to gameplay.
In Game screen, normal lighting.
Kind of rigged lighting using a molotov cocktail and close up of character.
platina
Member
These are the pictures Frank's talking about:
Only difference one is closer than the other.
Yeah i just cropped it so everyone could see the crazy details in the realtime character model even though he is nowhere near as close to the camera.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yeah, that one was good, and much better than the earlier Drake one's. However, the new Elena is so, so good.
potatohead
Member
These graphics should be banned from PS4.
My body is not yet ready.
My body is not yet ready.
Opposite day post?
Neo_Barrad
Member
Negotiator
Member
ScaryShark
Banned
LOLWhat if Drake is still in love with Chloe...
#TeamChloe
Just kidding, Elena >>>>>>> Chloe everyday
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What if Drake is still in love with Chloe...
#TeamChloe
Just kidding, Elena >>>>>>> Chloe everyday
Hahaha, love the added quote.
Nope, we don't know if there is gonna be a hardcore mode as of yet. They haven't said anything regarding that.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Judging by their past with playlists, there is hope, at least there will be a mode without the pups.
I can't argue with ND, if they said the models are the same than they aren't lying but seriously, how can this image
Be the same as the gameplay model, are you suggesting that If I will take a good photo-mode shot, where there is a nice lighting, and I'll zoom in on the gameplay model, I can get the above result?
I really doubt it, just look at the gameplay model in a 4K resolution (unlike the cut scene pic that seems like a youtube grab, full of compression and all), it looks awesome, one of the best out there, but it's like half a gen below it:
Holy freakballs hyperbole! Dude, I don't think anyone should waste their time debating with you on this anymore. You just seem to ignore what others have been telling you for some reason. Forget camera angles for a second, lighting can be tweaked and even slightly improved in cutscenes to make the character model look better. Even with Photomode, you can't get the lighting to look as perfect as in cutscenes because you can't control the lighting but the artists can in cutscenes.I can't argue with ND, if they said the models are the same than they aren't lying but seriously, how can this image
Be the same as the gameplay model, are you suggesting that If I will take a good photo-mode shot, where there is a nice lighting, and I'll zoom in on the gameplay model, I can get the above result?
I really doubt it, just look at the gameplay model in a 4K resolution (unlike the cut scene pic that seems like a youtube grab, full of compression and all), it looks awesome, one of the best out there, but it's like half a gen below it:
Now, I suggest you reserve judgement until we can fully zoom in to Nate's face in the game so we can make a fair comparison like that QB GIF that you and Frozone were drooling on.
Silent Hill
Banned
What if Drake is still in love with Chloe...
#TeamChloe
Just kidding, Elena >>>>>>> Chloe everyday
Haha this is great.
potatohead
Member
Drake got dat poontang on his mind all day!
Ravenous!
Ravenous!
Calm down, don't try to paint it like I've been arguing on this with 50 people for the last 100 pages, it's like my second post in this thread on this subject, talking about hyperbole and over reaction...
When I see these pics it seems like more than lighting, like it's less detailed in general, but we'll wait, until than go drink something and cool down.
My bad if my tone sounds too harsh or angry, but this is certainly not the first time you brought up this discussion. IIRC, you brought it up way back when we got the extended E3 demo. Now we don't have any gameplay shots that is as close up as the cutscenes, so I suggest we wait until the game releases. Also, when you made the same argument about The Order, I posted pics from Beyond3D and you never replied.
The sun is behind him so the front of his body is shadowed so he will look less detailed in in terms of SSS. However, that model certainly does not look half a gen off. You you look at his face, his skin, the veins and arteries showing and all that, you can tell it's the same model in different lighting.
And I played TO (bought it for 10$) and I couldn't recreate cut scene quality pics at all.
I don't remember your Beyond 3D post, might have missed it.
I wonder if you remember that I said that U4 is the best looking game ever as well, seems like you think I have an agenda.
Just because I see a big difference between gameplay model and cut scene doesn't mean I think anything less about the game visually, I wasn't even the one who brought up this subject, I just joined in an on going disucssion about it after having a new gameplay model shots as well (in 4K), so it seems reasonable to look up at that comparison again and share what I think.
Even when I'm looking at the hair it seems superior during cut scene for example, more thick and full, how lighting got anything to do with that?
platina
Member
I can't argue with ND, if they said the models are the same than they aren't lying but seriously, how can this image
Be the same as the gameplay model, are you suggesting that If I will take a good photo-mode shot, where there is a nice lighting, and I'll zoom in on the gameplay model, I can get the above result?
I really doubt it, just look at the gameplay model in a 4K resolution (unlike the cut scene pic that seems like a youtube grab, full of compression and all), it looks awesome, one of the best out there, but it's like half a gen below it:
Yes, actually if you're under nice lighting, the character model should look even better than the closed eye Drake i posted because the hair shader has improved along with a much better sss implementation.
Not long until the game releases and i can do some close up shots.
No, I do not think you have an agenda and I do remember you saying that you think Uncharted 4 is the best looking game, which I proceeded to agree with you and even highlighted the flaws in the rendering. However, I don't think it is fair to judge the models when we can't even zoom in to the gameplay model because the game isn't even out yet.
As for the hair, no idea what you're talking about. The only reasonable explaination I can think of is self shadowing on hair is disabled at a certain distance but enabled in closeups. Again, can't tell unless we have an up close view of the gameplay model.
And here was the comparison I posted from Beyond3D:
Frozone
Member
Javin98,
I think what the poster is getting at is that it's more than just moving the lights around. I have to agree with him. I'm thinking it's separate rendering algorithms happening during gameplay vs. cutscenes. Practically every game out there does this. In that gameplay shot, it looks like the lighting is flat on his clothes, skin, etc.. almost like they are using GI probes for ambient as opposed to trying to figure out if the GI probes are blocked by geometry and thus adding occlusion. You can clearly see this with his canteen on his jeans, shirt on arm, watch on arm, or his flashlight on his jeans. Also, his skin doesn't even look to have an SSS solution at all (save his ears which could be a mask texture map for backlighting). Clothes seem to have way more detail and self-occlusion in the cutscenes and his hair seems to have more ribbons and definitely more self-shadowing.
I agree that we definitely should wait for the game though. It's just guessing at this point with gameplay vids instead of seeing it on the screen. But I wouldn't be surprised if indeed there is a lot of "bells-n-whistles" turned off for gameplay.
Another thing -- the model, I interpret as just the amount of triangles that make up the character. This would be very easy to keep from cutscene to gameplay. Shading/Lighting not so much.
Just my 2 cents though..
I think what the poster is getting at is that it's more than just moving the lights around. I have to agree with him. I'm thinking it's separate rendering algorithms happening during gameplay vs. cutscenes. Practically every game out there does this. In that gameplay shot, it looks like the lighting is flat on his clothes, skin, etc.. almost like they are using GI probes for ambient as opposed to trying to figure out if the GI probes are blocked by geometry and thus adding occlusion. You can clearly see this with his canteen on his jeans, shirt on arm, watch on arm, or his flashlight on his jeans. Also, his skin doesn't even look to have an SSS solution at all (save his ears which could be a mask texture map for backlighting). Clothes seem to have way more detail and self-occlusion in the cutscenes and his hair seems to have more ribbons and definitely more self-shadowing.
I agree that we definitely should wait for the game though. It's just guessing at this point with gameplay vids instead of seeing it on the screen. But I wouldn't be surprised if indeed there is a lot of "bells-n-whistles" turned off for gameplay.
Another thing -- the model, I interpret as just the amount of triangles that make up the character. This would be very easy to keep from cutscene to gameplay. Shading/Lighting not so much.
Just my 2 cents though..
I can't argue with ND, if they said the models are the same than they aren't lying but seriously, how can this image
Be the same as the gameplay model, are you suggesting that If I will take a good photo-mode shot, where there is a nice lighting, and I'll zoom in on the gameplay model, I can get the above result?
I really doubt it, just look at the gameplay model in a 4K resolution (unlike the cut scene pic that seems like a youtube grab, full of compression and all), it looks awesome, one of the best out there, but it's like half a gen below it:
Because the gameplay shot crop is probably of a lower LOD quality model (due to being a further distance from the camera), and in less ideal lighting. I'm sure extreme close ups of the gameplay model with better lighting will look even more incredible.
I agree it's more than just tweaked lighting. It's more than likely that the lighting is slightly improved in cutscenes because ND has more hardware grunt to use up than in gameplay due to them being scripted. Also, I think now we can be quite sure that they are using some sort of light probes for GI. As for SSS, like you said, let's wait for the game to release. Most of the gameplay shots now are compressed and pretty far from the camera. And to add, cutscenes do look better than gameplay overall, no one is denying that, but the transitions feel seamless and it's not like in RotTR where the cutscenes look significantly better.Javin98,
I think what the poster is getting at is that it's more than just moving the lights around. I have to agree with him. I'm thinking it's separate rendering algorithms happening during gameplay vs. cutscenes. Practically every game out there does this. In that gameplay shot, it looks like the lighting is flat on his clothes, skin, etc.. almost like they are using GI probes for ambient as opposed to trying to figure out if the GI probes are blocked by geometry and thus adding occlusion. You can clearly see this with his canteen on his jeans, or his whip/flashlight on his jeans. Also, his skin doesn't even look to have an SSS solution at all (save his ears which could be a mask texture map for backlighting). Clothes seem to have way more detail and self-occlusion in the cutscenes and his hair seems to have more ribbons and definitely more self-shadowing.
I agree that we definitely should wait for the game though. It's just guessing at this point with gameplay vids instead of seeing it on the screen. But I wouldn't be surprised if indeed there is a lot of "bells-n-whistles" turned off for gameplay.
Another thing -- the model, I interpret as just the amount of triangles that make up the character. This would be very easy to keep from cutscene to gameplay. Shading/Lighting not so much.
Just my 2 cents though..
VeryNicePerson
Member
Out of curiosity, is there a way to order the limited edition of The Art of Uncharted 4: A Thief's End for Europe ?
No, I do not think you have an agenda and I do remember you saying that you think Uncharted 4 is the best looking game, which I proceeded to agree with you and even highlighted the flaws in the rendering. However, I don't think it is fair to judge the models when we can't even zoom in to the gameplay model because the game isn't even out yet.
As for the hair, no idea what you're talking about. The only reasonable explaination I can think of is self shadowing on hair is disabled at a certain distance but enabled in closeups. Again, can't tell unless we have an up close view of the gameplay model.
And here was the comparison I posted from Beyond3D:
That's a great Order comparison, though I do think that the upper pic looks better, still it's looking better than what I managed to do when played the game and it seems very close overall.
We'll see how U4 turns out in that regard, but it's not like I'm suggesting that if it won't the game is not the most impressive, I've seen the gameplay, I can live with Drake not looking as good as the cutscene when you do extreme close up, the gameplay itself looks incredible and that's what matters to me.
Never understood the complaint that the shooting is mediocre, especially in Uncharted 2.
You've got great recoil animations, sound and hit reactions. What's lacking?
Yeah using different LOD models for gameplay and cutscenes isn't a failure, it's smart. It's optimization.
You've got great recoil animations, sound and hit reactions. What's lacking?
Yeah using different LOD models for gameplay and cutscenes isn't a failure, it's smart. It's optimization.
The sound was shit in most guns, didn't feel like it had weight as well, I liked TR better when it came to gunplay.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Perhaps some people want gore or something.
I like the shooting in UC2 as well, especially when combined with Drake's agility and the vertical level design. Just experiment with the toolbox, which seems a lot bigger in 4. Looks like a ton of fun to play and the shooting felt great in the beta.
Net_Wrecker
Member
It was acceptable in 2. Fun to use, and certainly not a negative like UC3, but nothing to brag about. There were not "great" recoil animations, sound, or hit reactions though, that's giving the game a little too much credit.
UC4 on the other hand genuinely looks, moves, feels, and sounds great. The jump in quality across mechanics and feedback is huge.
Have you played the multiplayer beta? The shooting / gun play is fantastic. Feels so damn good.
Yea no doubt, according to the multi and the gameplay demos that shooting finally feels awesome in Uncharted.
Never understood the sound complaints for the weapons in Uncharted 2 and 3. Considering the audio was all recorded from actual weapons, accurate to the games. 2's guns were recorded using weapons from South/Southeast Asia, and in 3 the returning guns sound different from those because they were rerecorded with counterparts from Europe, West Asia, and the Arabian Peninsula, in order to capture the disctint difference in sound due to the types of metals used around the world.
Only two guns were never rerecorded from across the three games, the 12 gauge, because the audio team agreed that the existing sound was just too satisfying not to keep, and thus is always the same gun in each game, and the .44 revolver, as it's considered Sully's signature gun and even when found in the environment, is always the same .44 Smith & Wesson Model 629 Classic. I think it's kind of funny that Sully is so consistent in his choice of gun, even though he loses his revolver in every game. Meanwhile, Nate keeps the same general signature handgun but it does get rerecorded with location accurate sound each game (save for Golden Abyss which used existing gun audio from the series library and a handful of engineered sounds).
Unless the complaint isn't about the accuracy but just the mixing? Usually it's unclear what people don't like about the gun audio.
Listen to the guns here, especially the AK.
https://youtu.be/nb_5Hmu4U-A?t=207
They sound weak.
Now listen to the AK in UC4
https://youtu.be/hnRxCeLu1Tw?t=67
Much better
Maybe most people actually have no idea how a real gun sounds and take their references in games and movies. So when they say "the gun audio isn't good" they're actually saying, "it doesn't sound like what i was conditioned to believe it should".
Basically it wasn't quite loud or threatening enough. Though I feel it's really only a problem in the first game. Uncharted 2 was decent in this regard, and Uncharted 3 even better. Then again, similar to car sounds in games, people are so used to exaggerated audio from games, movies and from low quality poor mic cam footage on sites like YouTube, that realistic doesn't sound accurate enough any more.
It does seem like high resolution audio recording tends to sometimes lend to less aggressive and threatening results, with both weapon recordings and car audio. That said, it does look like with Uncharted 4 they've realised this and bumped things up accordingly.
Yeah maybe, like the above examples, the AK in 4 is probably going to be preferable to most people because, on top of the video having better audio quality, the AK sounds like it was recorded using a West African AK, maybe South African. Usually the AK audio used in Hollywood is done with examples from either Africa or Mexico, they sound similar and are probably what most people are familiar with.
If I remember right the AK in 2 is recorded specifically from a Malaysian example, the metal is more lightweight than the types Hollywood uses, and makes a crunchier sound, I think nicknamed "chain link" in foley if I remember right. Much less punchy, and probably why as mentioned in the below quote, it sounds less threatening.
Also a good point, Uncharted 4 seems to have wider dynamic range in its audio than the PS3 games did, though the Nathan Drake Collection did see a marked improvement, so the action in 4 all around sounds pretty forceful and satisfying.