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[TM94]

Gimped performance for most PS4 games at the 'base level' then

Get fucked Sony.

 

[dead monkey uk]

I guess some people feel the need to keep the doom mongering going even in the face of facts.

Yeah a number of people are ignoring the OP to keep the narrative going that the PS4K will effect the games they can play on their PS4.

 

[Black Hat]

Starting in October, every PS4 game is required to ship with both a “Base Mode” which will run on the currently available PS4 and a “NEO Mode” for use on the new console.

I wonder how many softco will close thanks to this shit.

Hilarious.

One has to wonder how PC devs even survive when they have to support variances of graphics cards, CPUs and even multiple versions of Windows.... but nah game devs will go under having to make two profiles for fixed systems.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Honestly, it sounds like this is going to be the only way you'll want to play Final Fantasy XV, since who knows how long the PC port is going to take. I'm in. UHD Blu-ray is just a bonus, though who knows how long that'll be a format.

 

[JP]

Better than I was expecting, I love that all games after October will contain a Neo version. Hopefully some older stuff will be patched too, hopefully it's not too difficult to do.

 

[Audioboxer]

They'll tell you it's for the 1 Sony exclusive per year that's any good. Nevermind the number of good PC exclusives in any given year is ten times that.

Or in other words, it's the marketing. Sony has sold the platformt o them as the only place to game, greatness awaits etc. And just like the crazy people that get ne wiPhones eveyr year, there's going to be a core audience that will pick up any and every new PS4 that comes out.

The question is, how large is that core base?

An iphone has become an essential piece of technology... I don't think consoles are that for most people.

Why not both? I don't understand anyone championing a specific platform as the best so others can't exist.

For your perfect platform, someone else likes another because like it or not even 1 exclusive or 1 exclusive franchise may well be their favourite game of all time.

 

[00ich]

So how much of a upgrade is this really?

Roughly twice that of a PS4 against the Xbone.

 

[The Cartographer]

Hilarious.

One has to wonder how PC devs even survive when they have to support variances of graphics cards, CPUs and even multiple versions of Windows.... but nah game devs will go under having to make two profiles for fixed systems.

Did you forgot what happen last gen thanks to HD graphics?

Studios will close, it's nothing hilarious.

 

[David Ricardo]

Just for the fun of it, just imagine you're a developer:

Here are your choices:

1) Optimize your game for Vanilla PS4 to get positive reviews and sell as many copies of your game to dat 40mn install base OR

2) SCREW those 40mn and deliver something for them even Tony Hawk-hardened players wont accept and optimize your game just for the couple of millions of PS4k users OR

3) Try to deliver the best possible game for each situation.


While choosing between option 1 and 3 may be decided by given resources, option 2 is actually out of the question, provided taht you'd want to sell as many copies as possible.

4) Do the best version possible for PS4k, as that's the one you are going to show in videos and pictures and a somewhat decent port for the PS4 that is acceptable but not as good as it would have been if there was no PS4k.

This is the case we are worried about, and that's a legitimate worry because we have seen it happen already with new 3ds.

Also, quit with that "self respecting developers" argument already. Developers always do the best they can, we all agree. But if somebody up in the hierarchy tells them to spend more time in the PS4k version, as that's were the heavy spenders and graphic sensitive people are, and spend less time in the PS4 port as those consumers are less sensitive to unoptimized garbage, they will do just that.

This is a bussiness. If Sony sets the environment so spending less time with the og PS4 version makes publishers more money, that's exactly what they'll do. And it's only going to be Sony's fault.


I was very happy with my PS4 purchase until now, I thought I had made a great decision by betting on Sony. But now that the rules have changed midgame, and I will not be able to play the best version of the next gran turismo in my launch PS4, I think buying a PS4 at launch was a mistake. A mistake I won't be making again. Next time I will wait until all the games I want have already released, as I can't trust Sony anymore.

 

[Forensic Scene]

I'm okay with this personally, but hope that it doesn't set a precedent for console upgrades that eventually will alienate users. Very slippery slope. My PS4 is loud as hell and I would love one that isn't. If that also means I get a new model with incrementally better guts, then even better. I'm actually more excited about a better PS4 than VR. I can't see myself being an early PSVR adopter, but am certainly monitoring how the rollout goes. Kudos to Giant Bomb for the scoop. I have no reason to doubt its validity given the earlier Kotaku leaks and I am confident that Jeff would heavily vet something like this before allowing it to be posted.

 

[00ich]

Gimped performance for most PS4 games at the 'base level' then

Get fucked Sony.

I wouldn't be too worried.

 

[photogaz]

I would love games like Uncharted 4 to be able to get a 60fps boost, but do we really think that could happen with those specs?

I guess if Uncharted is running about 40ish but gets capped to 30 then 60fps may be more achievable on the Neo.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Problem is that it will obviously make the entry level for PS4 games lower.

Meaning we'll be back to sub hd rez (after all it was acceptable in the beginning, and there are still games in 900p, and below that on XBO). If people can play FFXV at 720p on XBO, why wouldn't they play FFXV at 720p on classic PS4, if that allow them to show of their cgi korean boy's band models.

Devs will always try to have the best graphics, regardless of the iq, we know that. If they have an option to make the game run better on Neo.. It will be the new minimum. Running at 30fps/1080p on NEO, and god knows haw bad on classic.

Not directly, but in 2-3 years from now.

2-3 years from now we're going to be gearing up for PS5. Are people forgetting that some of the worst running multiplatform games of the last generation came out towards the end of the cycle? (2012-)

 

[DrROBschiz]

I totally understand the controversy and contention here...

But Im totally on board. Ive been waiting for a Slim to upgrade to anyways and now I can get something even better?

 

[Neuromancer]

For me, the biggest danger would be if not many people bought the new system (it is more $ after all) and support eventually dried up.

 

[Concrete Charlie]

Sounds great, will buy day one. Old PS4 goes upstairs, new PS4 goes downstairs. Couldn't be happier.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Yep, it's also what I've been told. I didn't want to go on and tell every one on GAF and go the "are you legit?" route, so that's why I kept my mouth shut, but I know a dev who told me they received a new dev kit, even before all the rumours and I was a bit skeptical/worried but he told me that it wasn't a "massive upgrade" as some rumours suggested.

lol...then what is the problem. What people feared is essentially not going to happen.

Weird so many people are like “I’m not buying Sony again” This is basically a beefier slim PS4 console. Allows Sony to sell at $400 most of the gen, standard PS4 drops to more affordable price, user base gets even bigger and now actually has a chance to hit PS2 numbers.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Did you forgot what happen last gen thanks to HD graphics?

Studios will close, it's nothing hilarious.

Adding one or 2 more fixed hardware is not going to cost or be much work .
Even more so depending on Sony tools and sdk .
It's not like they doing a whole new game or version since PC already going to have a better version than PS4K already .

 

[Roarer]

So this has already been a thing for years. I got a good gaming PC in 2011 and that basically got me better performing console games at a higher resolution. Game development technology and hardware continue to evolve whether or not consoles do too, and developers will try to take advantage of that as tools mature.

As long as Sony mandates high quality control for OG PS4 things should be fine. It will be in their and the developers best interest to make sure that the platform with the biggest install base (currently OG PS4) still performs well.

Sure, a few years in we'll probably see some less than stellar versions on OG PS4, but that already happened late in the PS360 cycle as well (remember Far Cry 3? That was a fucking slideshow on consoles).

 

[orioto]

2-3 years from now we're going to be gearing up for PS5. Are people forgetting that some of the worst running multiplatform games of the last generation came out towards the end of the cycle? (2012-)

Well it will be wayy worse now.

Also there is still something i don't get about all that thing...
You're leading the industry in sales, why do you fuck you own sales.. I don't get that. They will sell it to early adopters, fortunate geeks... But it will just make the actual, not expensive PS4, who could now really reach a mainstream market, less appealing..

 

[Black Hat]

Did you forgot what happen last gen thanks to HD graphics?

Studios will close, it's nothing hilarious.

Still hilarious. This is nothing like a generational jump.

 

[pixellated_man]

Problem is that it will obviously make the entry level for PS4 games lower.

Meaning we'll be back to sub hd rez (after all it was acceptable in the beginning, and there are still games in 900p, and below that on XBO). If people can play FFXV at 720p on XBO, why wouldn't they play FFXV at 720p on classic PS4, if that allow them to show of their cgi korean boy's band models.

Devs will always try to have the best graphics, regardless of the iq, we know that. If they have an option to make the game run better on Neo.. It will be the new minimum. Running at 30fps/1080p on NEO, and god knows haw bad on classic.

Not directly, but in 2-3 years from now.

2-3 years would be around the time for the successor to ps4 anyway. The gap between cross generational games on ps4 and ps5 would be much larger than ps4 and ps4 Neo.

 

[Taigerr]

Sounds like Sony all over just causing confusion as the incentive to "upgrade" is there but also not quite there at least for now..... wonder what will happen 2 years from now though ps4 8K???

 

[dead monkey uk]

Gimped performance for most PS4 games at the 'base level' then

Get fucked Sony.

We have no evidence for this, why is this more likely than PS4 games being unaffected by the PS4K game improvements. Look at Uncharted 4, if this gimped, Ps4 owners will be fine.

If this comes in under $500 and features Ultra HD Blu-ray (4K + HDR) then it will introduce a disc-format en masse just like the PS3 and PS2. Though to a smaller degree due to convenience of streaming these days and Blu-ray being 'good enough' for many. It will however be one of the more important events in having 4K resolution adopted.

Although not confirmed I see this being as much of a motivation for Sony than the gaming improvements.

 

[UrbanRats]

If this means more 60fps games, I am interested.
If this means more 30fps games with better aa (buy still shirty iq, compared to when I play on pc) the it's not nearly as appealing.

 

[Upinsmoke]

What's the big deal here really? Aside from it not being a "thing" in console gaming history it certainly is a thing in practically every other entertainment factor. If you buy a 970 you don't start crying when they bring out a better card a few years down the line. You just play your games on your card which it's capable of playing. Same with phones, I've got an ipad which just isn't that fast anymore and struggles with newer apps and games. Oh well such is life that things continously progress.

The only worry is that they don't fragment the user base, that they get the right message across pr wise

 

[Omnistalgic]

What makes you think devs give a fuck about backlash

People really think this is going to end in sunshine and roses for both Base and Neo users?

well, no one pisses in my cereal everyday, so just call us optimist. Perhaps some of us just want to see how things play out, especially in light of this news as it doesn’t seem to be some huge upgrade to PS4.

 

[Larogue]

Still using a shitty netbook CPU.

 

[The God]

lol...then what is the problem. What people feared is essentially not going to happen.

Weird so many people are like “I’m not buying Sony again” This is basically a beefier slim PS4 console. Allows Sony to sell at $400 most of the gen, standard PS4 drops to more affordable price, user base gets even bigger and now actually has a chance to hit PS2 numbers.

Why is it weird? People don't like this direction, so they give up playing on the system. Simple.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I hope a bunch of games get retroactive patches

Especially flagships like Bloodborne

 

[pixellated_man]

Considering the meagre upgrade to the cpu compared to a much bigger upgrade to the gpu, I think we will be getting mostly nicer looking games opposed to significantly better performing ones. There won't be a game running 30fps on ps4 and 60fps on the Neo. That much is clear at least.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

This is so exciting! Can't wait for my smooth 10fps "base model" games.

THANK YOU SONY!

 

[sems4arsenal]

Not buying until I see devs actually taking advantage of it.

 

[RoninChaos]

4) Do the best version possible for PS4k, as that's the one you are going to show in videos and pictures and a somewhat decent port for the PS4 that is acceptable but not as good as it would have been if there was no PS4k.

This is the case we are worried about, and that's a legitimate worry because we have seen it happen already with new 3ds.

Also, quit with that "self respecting developers" argument already. Developers always do the best they can, we all agree. But if somebody up in the hierarchy tells them to spend more time in the PS4k version, as that's were the heavy spenders and graphic sensitive people are, and spend less time in the PS4 port as those consumers are less sensitive to unoptimized garbage, they will do just that.

This is a bussiness. If Sony sets the environment so spending less time with the og PS4 version makes publishers more money, that's exactly what they'll do. And it's only going to be Sony's fault.


I was very happy with my PS4 purchase until now, I thought I had made a great decision by betting on Sony. But now that the rules have changed midgame, and I will not be able to play the best version of the next gran turismo in my launch PS4, I think buying a PS4 at launch was a mistake. A mistake I won't be making again. Next time I will wait until all the games I want have already released, as I can't trust Sony anymore.

Kind of where I'm at. This feels like launch PS3 Sony now that they got the lead back. I'm not buying another console mid cycle.

 

[Roarer]

What's the big deal here really? Aside from it not being a "thing" in console gaming history it certainly is a thing in practically every other entertainment factor. If you buy a 970 you don't start crying when they bring out a better card a few years down the line. You just play your games on your card which it's capable of playing. Same with phones, I've got an ipad which just isn't that fast anymore and struggles with newer apps and games. Oh well such is life that things continously progress.

The only worry is that they don't fragment the user base, that they get the right message across pr wise

Yep. With good developer guidelines and quality control, a tighter upgrade cycle won't be a big problem for anyone. Sure, we won't see 8 year console cycles anymore, but rather 6 year ones, but I for one welcome that (last generation went on waaaayyy too long IMO).

 

[Omnistalgic]

What's the big deal here really? Aside from it not being a "thing" in console gaming history it certainly is a thing in practically every other entertainment factor. If you buy a 970 you don't start crying when they bring out a better card a few years down the line. You just play your games on your card which it's capable of playing. Same with phones, I've got an ipad which just isn't that fast anymore and struggles with newer apps and games. Oh well such is life that things continously progress.

The only worry is that they don't fragment the user base, that they get the right message across pr wise

It’s just GAF man. I’m not convinced. This news is essentially squashing a big problem people had with the rumor, my PS4 is going to get crap games or miss out on games.

- No Neo exclusives

- Strict standards sets by Sony

- Machine is not that much more powerful

They seem to be aware of pissing early adopters off and this is just a nice way to keep PS4 on the market longer, at a higher price, and embraced by people with newer TV’s.

 

[hemo memo]

I guess some people feel the need to keep the doom mongering going even in the face of facts.

Nothing official yet so not facts yet. This is still not confirmed.

 

[Red Devil]

The same certification/quality process that allowed PS3 Skyrim and PS4 Broforce (just as examples) to be released?

Yeah I'm not sure how they'll be able to handle that. And that's just an example games on consoles with performance issues.

EDIT:

So I guess they only need a new motion controller codenamed Trinity, and they can sell a Matrix SKU with everything for state of the art VR.

Spoiler

Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Black Hat]

Still using a shitty netbook CPU.

I've never understood this statement (meme?)... aren't most Netbook CPUs single or dual core at best.

Sure the CPU isn't a powerhouse but size and power comes at a trade off obviously.

 

[Hendrick's]

Maybe with a patch and the NEO I will finally be able to play The Witcher.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Why is it weird? People don't like this direction, so they give up playing on the system. Simple.

lol...every system has directions like this though, MS is rumored, Nintendo is already doing it, PC has it’s own hurdles.

I find it petty...but yeah, to each their own.

 

[gconsole]

I hope a bunch of games get retroactive patches

Especially flagships like Bloodborne

Or pay for upgrade patch

 

[pixellated_man]

Let's be honest about the technology age we live in: in order to get 7-8 years out of one console, it'd have to cost $600-$800 out of the gate, which nobody would buy into. SONY has a business to run, and it won't go to well for the PlayStation division if they try to stretch a $400 piece of tech out for 8 years--that's simply not the world we live in anymore.

Right on the money.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

So we even have specs now, that show that (if true) this thing clearly won't be that huge of an upgrade AND there won't be any exclusive games and people are still in moral panic mode about how their OG PS4 games will run at 720p 15fps.

 

[Bilix]

Looks like I'm going to have to wait a few more months to play Persona 5.

 

[daveo42]

Read the article. Sounds fine to me.

 

[The God]

lol...every system has directions like this though, MS is rumored, Nintendo is already doing it, PC has it’s own hurdles.

I find it petty...but yeah, to each their own.

Voting with your wallet is petty

lol

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

We have no evidence for this, why is this more likely than PS4 games being unaffected by the PS4K game improvements. Look at Uncharted 4, if this gimped, Ps4 owners will be fine.

Solid and beautiful releases like Gears of War 3 didn't preclude the Xbox 360 from not getting down ports that looks, ran, and played horrendously.

And Sony's mandate only says "PS4K games must meet or exceed performance of the PS4 version. The PS4 version must include all of the features of the PS4K version"

It says nothing about being a shittier experience. I see this as inevitable. I've experienced so many tail ends of consoles that I can only see this as bad news.

 

[Metfanant]

Gimped performance for most PS4 games at the 'base level' then

Get fucked Sony.

Actually, not at all...you'll get the same experience you would have gotten anyway...now there will just be a version that performs to a higher standard...

Honestly, for the most part I expect 30fps games to get some more bells and whistles on the "Neo" and remain a solid, 30fps...

And games with uneven performance will see a smoother experience...

But it's not like you're going to see devs push the limits on the Neo at 30fps and then release the normal version running at a "gimped" 15-20fps

 

[thelastword]

If it's 36CU, so double PS4 GPU, it might means it's a 40CU chip with 4CU disabled. R9 390 is a 40CU. So it might be physically a R9 390 equivalent, in the same sense that PS4 GPU is an HD7870 physically, in the core count. But in term of raw power, because of the clocks and the disabled CUs, PS4 is closer to HD7850 and PS4K might be closer to R9 280x.

About right, from what I'm seeing here....

The same shitty CPU? Well this is underwhelming.

Maybe the CPU they would have liked to upgrade to would usher some incompatibility issues with current PS4 software, even if it didn't, and they announced the NEO with a brand new screaming CPU the arguments would be reversed and people would be saying that Sony is crazy to think anyone would buy this for $500-600. This hardware is a steal at $400.00, yet people are still complaining of the big bad corporation did them wrong and ate their porridge, some suggest they wont' upgrade unless there's a trade in program, so I don't think a more powerful CPU with a much higher price point would be the way to go mid gen. The amount of GPU power and overall upgrades to the vanilla PS4 at $400.00 is a bargain when you think about it. I think MS would be inclined to sell a similar system for $500.00 themselves tbh.....

On GPU, it's pretty significant. On CPU side, not so much.

I wanted a beefier CPU as well, but let's be honest, how many games have really been CPU starved on these consoles? Right now 16xAF should be a default fixture, 4xMSAA would be more common and 60 or 30fps locked would be much more common. 1080p and even higher resolutions are now possible. The issues on vanilla consoles had more to do with lack of optimization and sloppy porting and usually they would have been issues solved or easily solved on the GPU side. Devs not turning on AF, 30fps ports that should be 60fps, low quality assets. Many of these issues would be somewhat curtailed by the bruteforce power of the NEO.