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NV Democrats file complaint against Sanders campaign to DNC

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CCS

Banned
You can read the letter here.

We believe, unfortunately, that the tactics and behavior on display here in Nevada are harbingers of things to come as Democrats gather in Philadelphia in July for our National Convention. We write to alert you to what we perceive as the Sanders Campaign’s penchant for extra-parliamentary behavior—indeed, actual violence—in place of democratic conduct in a convention setting, and furthermore what we can only describe as their encouragement of, and complicity in, a very dangerous atmosphere that ended in chaos and physical threats to fellow Democrats. Indeed, the threats to the Chair of the Nevada State Democratic Party are ongoing at time of this writing, as Sanders activists have posted her cell phone and home address online, and have bombarded her with threats to her life and the safety of her family. We have attached some examples of this conduct, which is not merely offensive but obviously criminal in nature. We can provide audio of threatening phone calls made directly to the Chair, which now number in the hundreds.

The explosive situation arose in large part because a portion of the community of Sanders delegates arrived at the Nevada Democratic State Convention believing itself to be a vanguard intent upon sparking a street-fight rather than attending an orderly political party process. Surprised and outraged at the idea of being out-organized and thus outnumbered in the convention hall by Clinton delegates, a portion of the Sanders delegation rushed the dais immediately upon the opening of the convention and halted the progress of any convention business for much of the day. Indeed, every point during which Sanders delegates did not agree with any aspect of the proceedings saw them press up against the dais and scream obscenities and threats at the Chair, First Vice Chair, and any other speaker. In fact, event security provided by the Paris Las Vegas Hotel & Casino took it upon themselves to increase the security perimeter around the dais so the convention could simply move forward with its routine business in relative safety. In other words, the hour-to-hour business of Nevada Democrats was necessarily conducted in an atmosphere of impending eruption of physical threats and intimidation for more than 12 hours. Scuffles, screams from bullhorns, and profane insults marked nearly the entirety of the event. Numerous medical emergencies among delegates pressed up against the dais had to be attended to throughout the day.

The most egregious instance of the Sanders Campaign inciting disruption—and yes, violence—came as the State Convention’s Credentials Committee completed its work. Adam Gillette, part of National Delegate Operations Team for the official Sanders Campaign, drafted and arranged for a member of that committee to attempt to deliver an incendiary, inaccurate, and wholly unauthorized “minority report” charging that the Credentials Committee had fraudulently denied 64 Sanders delegates their eligibility. The final delegate count had provided the Clinton Campaign with a 33 delegate advantage in the hall; one can imagine the rage occasioned by this inflammatory charge, tossed into the tinderbox of a tense convention hall. Not only did this discredit the work of the Credentials Committee—which featured five Sanders delegates and five Clinton delegates and a Sanders co-chair, and who worked all day under extremely trying conditions to be fair and diligent in their duties—it called into question the entirety of the proceedings because it indicated to an irrational minority that the proceedings had been rigged against them. Forcing their way onto the dais to deliver this paranoid fantasy of fraud and delegate theft was clearly intended to throw the proceedings into disarray. It succeeded. From that moment on, there was little hope for any peace or mutual understanding and respect between Sanders delegates and the NSDP; the mantra became simply that the convention had been stolen from the Sanders Campaign.

Some of the messages sent to the Nevada State Democratic Party Chair:

GwIsA0m_krd9Vt8vHvyS-o53xMLRWhIkiW8Ct1Mo9Ws


UPDATE: Transcripts of some of the voicemails left on her phone:

Hi Roberta Lange. This is a citizen of the United States of America and I just wanted to let you know that I think people like you should be hung in a public execution to show this world that we won’t stand for this sort of corruption. I don’t know what kind of money they are paying to you, but I don’t know how you sleep at night. You are a sick, twisted piece of shit and I hope you burn for this! You can return my call at ______. I’d love to go into further detail with you about this, though I am sure you don’t have courage to do so. You cowardless bitch, running off the stage! I hope people find you.

You fucking stupid bitch! What the hell are you doing? You’re a fucking corrupt bitch! That is so fucking wrong. You should be ashamed and disgraced. You need to step down from that position because you are bad for America and bad for the Democratic Party. That was fucking bullshit today. You need to step down. You’re a disgrace.
 
And this comes, what, a day after they had to get the police involved at the delegate hearing about the Caucus?

I get it, I do, these people obviously don't speak for Bernie. But he needs to reign it in and pack it up or it's gonna get worse.
 

Alrus

Member
Will Sanders at least condemn this? Because it's disgusting.

I mean I'm sure if he does it it will be in a half-assed backhanded way but it would at least make him not look like a total asshole.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Editing this before more people come in the thread and assume things about what I meant by this and reply without looking at anything in the link or my following replies in the thread:

They changed some rules which allowed things to be handled more directly at the meeting. This surprised people because the changes to process were not properly communicated and they thought they had more democratic motions they could make than they did. When things went the other way from their expectations, they were shocked and outraged, thinking the whole thing had been stolen from them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7c0I8ODKw

Granted, these reactions are completely uncalled for and way over the top and illegal, but this is what happens when you lead people into a situation where they perceive their rights getting stripped away. They could have played it straight, but instead they went into all these dirty tactics.
 
"Out-organizing" means changing the rules to bypass democratic process in weeks leading up to the meeting and not properly informing everyone who will be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7c0I8ODKw

Granted, these reactions are completely uncalled for and way over the top and illegal, but this is what happens when you lead people into a situation where they perceive their rights getting stripped away. They could have played it straight, but instead they went into all these dirty tactics.

All people had to do was register democratic instead of independent.

It's not hard.
 
"Out-organizing" means changing the rules to bypass democratic process in weeks leading up to the meeting and not properly informing everyone who will be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7c0I8ODKw

Granted, these reactions are completely uncalled for and way over the top and illegal, but this is what happens when you lead people into a situation where they perceive their rights getting stripped away. They could have played it straight, but instead they went into all these dirty tactics.
Bull
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
Violence should never be resorted too. The sexist language and threats are also unacceptable and disappointing.

That said if you watch the videos of the disastrous convention, the whole thing was a mess with no semblance of order and respect for the process.

Voice votes were clearly being stolen away from the sanders side.

What a mess...
 
And this comes, what, a day after they had to get the police involved at the delegate hearing about the Caucus?

I get it, I do, these people obviously don't speak for Bernie. But he needs to reign it in and pack it up or it's gonna get worse.

I think what you're witnessing with some Bernie supporters (specifically, the problematic ones that get negative threads dedicated to them) is beyond anything Bernie could reign in. As soon as Bernie does something like, say, endorse Hillary, he'll just become another part of the "establishment". He didn't create these supporters, they gravitated to him as a matter of coincidence. If Ted Cruz were to take a stance against the 2nd amendment his supporters wouldn't shift with him, they would say he's sold out to such and such special interest and lambast him. In much the same way, Bernie has captivated a number of people who are disillusioned with big money, special interests, gridlock in Washington and corporate influence, but he is by no means the shepherd of the flock. He's more like a guy who went for a jog around his neighborhood on the same day as a citywide marathon and happens to be running at the head of the group. If Bernie had never run, these people would have rallied behind Martin O'Malley or Jill Stein with equal vociferousness.
 

Maledict

Member
Violence should never be resorted too.

That said if you watch the videos of the disastrous convention, the whole thing was a mess with no semblance of order and respect for the process.

Voice votes were clearly being stolen away from the sanders side.

What a mess...

No they weren't. The damn commission that was equally staffed by Sander's and Clinton supporters determined the delegate qualifications. No votes were being stolen. Sander's supporters didn't turn up on the day, and then threw a fit when that meant they had less votes.

Weird how when *exactly* the same thing happened a month ago at the county conventions, where Clintons supporters failed to turn up, Sander's fans were proclaiming it a triumph and there was no violence or death threats. Yet suddenly when the reverse happens it goes down like this.

It's also worth remembering that the final allocation of votes was what the voters chose at the original caucus. It's only due to the county level convention that Sander's increased his share of the delegates against the actual caucus results. Hardly a triumph for democracy.
 

Prax

Member
Gamergatism or whatever you wanna call reactionary persecution complex irrationality is starting to seep into and co-opt the campaign, I think.
 
I think what you're witnessing with some Bernie supporters (specifically, the problematic ones that get negative threads dedicated to them) is beyond anything Bernie could reign in. As soon as Bernie does something like, say, endorse Hillary, he'll just become another part of the "establishment". He didn't create these supporters, they gravitated to him as a matter of coincidence. If Ted Cruz were to take a stance against the 2nd amendment his supporters wouldn't shift with him, they would say he's sold out to such and such special interest and lambast him. In much the same way, Bernie has captivated a number of people who are disillusioned with big money, special interests, gridlock in Washington and corporate influence, but he is by no means the shepherd of the flock. He's more like a guy who went for a jog around his neighborhood on the same day as a citywide marathon and happens to be running at the head of the group. If Bernie had never run, these people would have rallied behind Martin O'Malley or Jill Stein with equal vociferousness.

I think they'd have rallied around Rand Paul tbh.

A lot of the voter block (18-24) that Bernie entices loves that type of candidate, see Paul, Ron.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
All people had to do was register democratic instead of independent.

It's not hard.
That has nothing to do with the rule changes. The video I linked summarizes it well and has appropriate links to all the relevant information. It is also "not hard" to make sure people are informed so as to not be surprised/outraged by fundamental changes to power dynamics.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
No they weren't. The damn commission that was equally staffed by Sander's and Clinton supporters determined the delegate qualifications. No votes were being stolen. Sander's supporters didn't turn up on the day, and then threw a fit when that meant they had less votes.

Weird how when *exactly* the same thing happened a month ago at the county conventions, where Clintons supporters failed to turn up, Sander's fans were proclaiming it a triumph and there was no violence or death threats. Yet suddenly when the reverse happens it goes down like this.

It's also worth remembering that the final allocation of votes was what the voters chose at the original caucus. It's only due to the county level convention that Sander's increased his share of the delegates against the actual caucus results. Hardly a triumph for democracy.

I wasn't talking about the credentials. The 58 that were denied from participating for Sanders will have to be looked at.

I was talking about the voice votes. Watch the videos...

I Know it was a fight for a few delegates in a race that is largely over. But to deny that it was a mess that would piss people off (sexism violence unaccounted) is not being honest.

There is a difference between losing because you were outorganized and seeing the process work against you right in your face.
 
I think they'd have rallied around Rand Paul tbh.

A lot of the voter block (18-24) that Bernie entices loves that type of candidate, see Paul, Ron.

You might be right. The broader point is that much like Donald Trump didn't create white nationalists, Bernie didn't create "bernie bros". If he hadn't run, they'd be Rand Paul bros or Elizabeth Warren bros or Jill Stein bros or whatever. They gravitated behind Bernie because he's the closest thing they have to a leader, but they would have just as easily propped up someone else if Bernie stayed in Vermont. I think the extent to which Bernie created any of this sentiment is vastly overstated.
 
You might be right. The broader point is that much like Donald Trump didn't create white nationalists, Bernie didn't create "bernie bros". If he hadn't run, they'd be Rand Paul bros or Elizabeth Warren bros or Jill Stein bros or whatever. They gravitated behind Bernie because he's the closest thing they have to a leader, but they would have just as easily propped up someone else if Bernie stayed in Vermont. I think the extent to which Bernie created any of this sentiment is vastly overstated.

I never meant to imply he did. Political polarization is a natural part of the social media age we now live in. However, I do think it's time for Bernie to call it because it'll at least get the tampering out phase of the vitriol of this group done quicker.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
You might be right. The broader point is that much like Donald Trump didn't create white nationalists, Bernie didn't create "bernie bros". If he hadn't run, they'd be Rand Paul bros or Elizabeth Warren bros or Jill Stein bros or whatever. They gravitated behind Bernie because he's the closest thing they have to a leader, but they would have just as easily propped up someone else if Bernie stayed in Vermont. I think the extent to which Bernie created any of this sentiment is vastly overstated.

Yes. Bernie is not supported because of his persona depite what many of Gaf think.... dude was unknown by most. People like his message.

Also, the term Bernie bros should not be used. It's an inaccurate term with an agenda behind it.
Fucking Bernie Bros

This is the type of unproductive post the term generates... d
 
Like I've said earlier, unfortunately it appears Bernie's support has been hijacked by a loud and ugly minority movement. Honestly its probably for the better- this type of behavior does not win supporters other than the dwindling number of die-hards on reddit.
 
I never meant to imply he did. Political polarization is a natural part of the social media age we now live in. However, I do think it's time for Bernie to call it because it'll at least get the tampering out phase of the vitriol of this group done quicker.

I'm not sure it will. If you look to the republican party, I don't think Donald Trump saying "ok guys, this is getting out of hand" would cure his base of their racism, sexism and xenophobia. No one who is pissed off for whatever reason will stop being pissed off because Bernie asks them nicely. He has no control of that section of his supporters, and I really think they'd have rallied behind whoever the "not hillary" candidate ended up being. I guess it would be some nice gesture for Bernie to take a very deliberate stance against the "enthusiasm" of some of his supporters, but it's naive for us to think they're acting this way just because they really like Bernie. They're acting this way, first and foremost, because they're angry at what they perceive to be failures of government. Nothing Bernie has said created that sentiment and nothing Bernie can say will dispel that sentiment. I don't think any politician creates movements, I think they capitalize on them. Bernie has definitely tapped into the zeitgeist, but I don't think he can really do anything to influence it.
 

dramatis

Member
"Out-organizing" means changing the rules to bypass democratic process in weeks leading up to the meeting and not properly informing everyone who will be there.
Out-organizing means Hillary's campaign got more of her county-level delegates to show up than Sanders's campaign did. Out-organizing means more of Hillary's delegates weren't this stupid:

V9ZpTAd.png


The rules were not changed to bypass the democratic process. Consider that Hillary won the state; it was more Sanders supporters showing up at county level that allowed him to net more county level delegates, now more Hillary supporters showed up at the state convention, so rightfully she gets more delegates.
 

rjinaz

Member
Assholes. The people that made threats need to be arrested. Sanders needs to come out and condemn this crap immediately.
 

br3wnor

Member
Out-organizing means Hillary's campaign got more of her county-level delegates to show up than Sanders's campaign did. Out-organizing means more of Hillary's delegates weren't this stupid:

V9ZpTAd.png


The rules were not changed to bypass the democratic process. Consider that Hillary won the state; it was more Sanders supporters showing up at county level that allowed him to net more county level delegates, now more Hillary supporters showed up at the state convention, so rightfully she gets more delegates.

BUT THE ELECTION WAS STOLENNNNN!!!!!

I'm so sick of Bernie bots refusing to accept reality and creating this alternate universe where Bernie is being disenfranchised and Shillary is stealing the election. She has over 2 million more votes than Bernie, she's going to be the nominee, it's over, stop being such sore losers.
 

Slayven

Member
Bernie's campaign been using dangerous language for damn near a year now. "Everyone is corrupt, and part of the estiblishment", "People are stupid for not voting for him", etc. They should have reign this shit in long ago, but he has two knuckle heads running his campaign, and zero self awareness
 
Bernie's campaign been using dangerous language for damn near a year now. "Everyone is corrupt, and part of the estiblishment", "People are stupid for not voting for him", etc. They should have reign this shit in long ago, but he has two knuckle heads running his campaign, and zero self awareness

I still laugh at Devine bitching constantly about the system he quite literally created.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
BUT THE ELECTION WAS STOLENNNNN!!!!!

I'm so sick of Bernie bots refusing to accept reality and creating this alternate universe where Bernie is being disenfranchised and Shillary is stealing the election. She has over 2 million more votes than Bernie, she's going to be the nominee, it's over, stop being such sore losers.

Hey I agree with the idea of accepting when you lose... that said procedure should always be followed.

Videos of the voice votes have not been posted. Shit was clearly a mess. What happened im Nevada probably disenfranchised many Sanders supporters that are not the few doing the threats.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
Bernie's campaign been using dangerous language for damn near a year now. "Everyone is corrupt, and part of the estiblishment", "People are stupid for not voting for him", etc. They should have reign this shit in long ago, but he has two knuckle heads running his campaign, and zero self awareness

The second line has never been said by the campaign.

The first is interesting... because I do think the system is extremely corrupt. You have to point it out... if merely pointing out corruption incites violence then we have a big problem...

Sanders himself has never advocated violence. Has always been clearly against it.
 

Arkeband

Banned
a portion of the Sanders delegation rushed the dais immediately upon the opening of the convention and halted the progress of any convention business for much of the day.

This doesn't gel with the videos I've seen - is this factual?

Videos of the voice votes have not been posted. Shit was clearly a mess. What happened im Nevada probably disenfranchised many Sanders supporters that are not the few doing the threats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5srPXtJV0V0
 
Hope those who left the messages are found and prosecuted. That's the sort of crap I'd expect from Trump supporters, which I guess isn't surprising considering the overlap.
 

BanGy.nz

Banned
Videos of the voice votes have not been posted. Shit was clearly a mess. What happened im Nevada probably disenfranchised many Sanders supporters that are not the few doing the threats.
Those Sanders delegates were trying to actively disenfranchis thousands on caucus voters.
 

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Out-organizing means Hillary's campaign got more of her county-level delegates to show up than Sanders's campaign did. Out-organizing means more of Hillary's delegates weren't this stupid:

The rules were not changed to bypass the democratic process. Consider that Hillary won the state; it was more Sanders supporters showing up at county level that allowed him to net more county level delegates, now more Hillary supporters showed up at the state convention, so rightfully she gets more delegates.
That is not was I was talking about. I was talking about the rule changes which did happen that allowed authoritarian judgement calls to be made at the meeting without a vote, which many people at the meeting didn't think was allowed/possible.

I'm not defending the Bernie supporters here or trying to say that it was stolen or any of that, so please do not try to push that narrative onto me. I'm simply saying that people were so outraged because they were surprised, and that surprise could have been prevented by either not changing the rules in this way, or having much better communication about both the necessary requirements and what powers (due to the rule changes) will be in play at the meeting to outright dismiss people if they fail to get their credentials squared away.

I don't see what's so controversial about saying that when you surprise people by swinging power they didn't know you were given to bind options they thought they still had then they're going to be outraged and think you stole something from them.
 
The second line has never been said by the campaign.

The first is interesting... because I do think the system is extremely corrupt. You have to point it out... if merely pointing out corruption incites violence then we have a big problem...

Sanders himself has never advocated violence. Has always been clearly against it.

You mean like the Hilary voters that we're disenfranchised in a state she actually won but Sanders got more delegates?

Lost in all this is how hilarious it is that hardcore Bernie supporters are upset that Hilary got more delegates in a state she actually won
 

Arkeband

Banned
It's been corraborated by multiple sources. Unless said sources are all in on it to spite Bernie—which Berniebros will insist they are—then it happened.

Here's the thing, the entire thing was periscoped and filmed to excess, if there's no video footage of this stage bum-rushing then it didn't happen the way described.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
You mean like the Hilary voters that we're disenfranchised in a state she actually won but Sanders got more delegates?

Lost in all this is how hilarious it is that hardcore Bernie supporters are upset that Hilary got more delegates in a state she actually won

The ending result is "fair" and the swing would have been meaningless.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I still think you can't just call voice votes incorrectly to get the outcome you want....

Procedure has to always be followed. The party has that responsibility...




Can people stop using Bernie bros please?
 

zelas

Member
I hope Bernie doesn't respond to this in any way similar to how Trump responded to his white supremacy supporters. Do all you can to condemn these people. I'm tired of seeing Democratic party voters be more dysfunctional than republicans lately. And I'm certainly tired of some voters attacking fellow democrats with the same rhetoric and tactics that used to only be part of the tea party/trump repertoire.
 

TyrantII

Member
"Out-organizing" means changing the rules to bypass democratic process in weeks leading up to the meeting and not properly informing everyone who will be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7c0I8ODKw

Granted, these reactions are completely uncalled for and way over the top and illegal, but this is what happens when you lead people into a situation where they perceive their rights getting stripped away. They could have played it straight, but instead they went into all these dirty tactics.

Yes you need to be a Democrat to participate in The Democratic state convention. Thats always been the case.


Why would anyone think otherwise?
 

Slayven

Member
The second line has never been said by the campaign.

The first is interesting... because I do think the system is extremely corrupt. You have to point it out... if merely pointing out corruption incites violence then we have a big problem...

Sanders himself has never advocated violence. Has always been clearly against it.

There is no corruption, just a bunch of folks that didn't know how something worked. If the Sanders campaign was really about a revolution they would have been educating folks and organizing them.
 
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