metalslimer
Member
He stopped spreading his message a long time ago unless his message is now more about conspiracy theories and being treated unfairly.
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Politifact: Allegations of fraud and misconduct at NV convention unfounded
- Thread starter Frozenprince
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He stopped spreading his message a long time ago unless his message is now more about conspiracy theories and being treated unfairly.
At this point staying in is hurting his message. If he dropped out and started campaigning for Clinton he might've had a chance of pushing Clinton further to the left.
He decided to stubbornly stay in and his campaign is getting nastier and nastier with the conspiracy bullshit, downplaying harassment, etc. Nobody is going to hear what he has to say after stuff like this.
Frozenprince
Banned
At this point it's not about his message and more about people being mad he lost and lashing out instead of accepting it.
Let's see the data to backup your claim.
How is smearing Hillary and the Democratic Party right? Inventing conspiracies? He's not spreading his message anymore, he's spreading hate.
If his message stuck to the issue I'd agree with you that it could help the future, but now his message if full of lies. Lies about illegal fundraising, about his campaigns illegal access to Hillary's database and now about the Nevada caucus.
How many Americans did Hillary kill in Nevada?
All of this bullshit over his campaign trying to steal delegates and overturn the "will of the people" he's pretending to represent. And it wouldn't have changed shit. I'm so tired of this guy.
Calling the entire party he's now a part of corrupt, pretending he's 3 millions vote behind his opponent because of fraud/unfairness/whatever the excuse is this time, and attacking organisations that do not endorse him is not petulance? Where does that fit into his message?
Calling the entire party he's now a part of corrupt, pretending he's 3 millions vote behind his opponent because of fraud/unfairness/whatever the excuse is this time, and attacking organisations that do not endorse him is not petulance? Where does that fit into his message?
Honestly I think he's doing to liberal voters what a lot of people believe Carson was doing to conservative voters. Just squeezing every last penny out of them before his campaign goes poof. It would explain why he seems to be cutting costs and losing staff in California while increasingly polarizing the electorate. It would explain why he doesn't care about supporting down ballot candidates or the dnc even though it'd be necessary for any political revolution. Of course it's in his consultants interest to keep going. They don't have a cap on their pay.
Diprosalic
Banned
Tampa Bay Times own Polifact and they endorsed SHILLARY.
obviously can't be trusted.
obviously can't be trusted.
Good on Politifact for doing this. I'm also glad that they didn't rush this out, but instead waited for both sides to make clear statements, then vetted them carefully with as much evidence as they could gather.
And yeah, conspiracy theory Sanders supporters won't be swayed, but nothing would will sway them. Most of them will listen, even if the loudest ones have screamed themselves deaf.
I wonder if this will get Sanders to give the incident a proper response. Probably not lol.
And yeah, conspiracy theory Sanders supporters won't be swayed, but nothing would will sway them. Most of them will listen, even if the loudest ones have screamed themselves deaf.
I wonder if this will get Sanders to give the incident a proper response. Probably not lol.
why's he such an asshole 
1968. Sanders is a professional protester who uses political office and politics in general as a soap box to preach ideology, not policy or a clear legislative agenda. His entire strategy to pass anything if he was POTUS was to encourage rioting in front of state houses (that isn't even a joke, that is his own statement).
The most glorious of political protests in his lifetime was the 1968 Democratic Convention. He wants to see it again. Who cares that it locked in 20 of the next 24 years of Republican control, with that chain only broken for a single term following the sitting Vice President and President both resigning within a year in disgrace for criminal behavior. It was one hell of a protest and sure showed the "establishment".
Bern it down.
They probably didn't show because they read the rules and knew they wouldn't qualify because of their own mistakes.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
He hasn't done a good job of spreading his message then. The way his campaign spreads lies about conspiracies and corruption in the political system he has been a part of for over 50 years just comes off an egotistical and detached from reality. If he actually cared about the people he'd realize that sticking to his "convictions" like this is only going to end up hurting Americans.
I didn't think it would be this way. I figured that the GOP would have a contested convention and split the vote. To see the Democrats so close to doing that is mind boggling.
I think the article even says that everyone who wanted in got in as well.
SolicitorPirate
Member
If his message is that it's ok to harass people because they are part of a grand conspiracy against him, then yeah, he sure is spreading his message alright.
This was my big takeaway from the write-up as well. Everything else I've read has made it seem like these poor delegates were waiting outside the doors and the establishment just wouldn't let them in or some such. In reality they just never went to the convention AT ALL. Not to mention the other ~400 Bernard supporters who were there for the county convention who also didn't show up.
So all the rule changing, amendments, and petitions brought by the Bernard supporters who were there were for what exactly? They didn't have the numbers, even if all the unconfirmed delegates who were there were allowed to be counted.
Having donated to the Sanders campaign, this hasn't been my experience. I used to get fundraising e-mails almost once per day leading up to the mid-Atlantic primaries. After those concluded, the frequency of the e-mails decreased dramatically. Now I only get them about once per week, if that.
The latest e-mail, which came out after he won Oregon and narrowly lost Kentucky last night, didn't even mention winning the nomination. The focus was on winning California and "getting the message out". From what I can tell he's winding his campaign down and focusing on winning California as a symbolic victory.
That being said, the whole Nevada thing is fucking stupid on the part of the Sanders campaign. So are plans to protest at the DNC.
To have a lasting impact, somebody needs to figure out how to translate the "energy" behind the Sanders campaign into a lasting political organization capable of mobilizing voters to support future candidates in line with the ideas Sanders expresses.
Just as God and the founding fathers intended.
Hellsing321
Member
All 56 of those Sanders delegates that didn't show up. Follow the money.
excelsiorlef
Member
The key thing here I think is the fact that 56 of the would be delegates weren't even present.
Why is this the key thing?
Because of this from Sanders press release
The Chair in question there is of course Roberta Lange, the woman getting death threats, whose life/family/place of business/well being has been put at risk.
And that was Sanders' response to her harassment? First to walk away from a podium and second, in what was supposed to be his response to the violence and harassment she received, to falsely accuse her of stealing the "majority" from Sanders.
A woman's well being is put at risk because inciteful rhetoric from the Sanders campaign and he responded by essentially saying she deserved it.
I agree with whoever said it should be pants on fire designation.
Why is this the key thing?
Because of this from Sanders press release
The Chair in question there is of course Roberta Lange, the woman getting death threats, whose life/family/place of business/well being has been put at risk.
And that was Sanders' response to her harassment? First to walk away from a podium and second, in what was supposed to be his response to the violence and harassment she received, to falsely accuse her of stealing the "majority" from Sanders.
A woman's well being is put at risk because inciteful rhetoric from the Sanders campaign and he responded by essentially saying she deserved it.
I agree with whoever said it should be pants on fire designation.
Finished reading it. Great write up. Glad they made a point to mention that no chairs were thrown!
The whole process is incredibly antiquated, not to mention unconducive to democracy. Hopefully this incident can motivate a serious effort to retire caucuses in the states that still have them.
Also this video is terrifying. That guy who starts pushing the fence is carrying a pipe or stick or something. You can also catch a glimpse of the chair-lifting guy.
The whole process is incredibly antiquated, not to mention unconducive to democracy. Hopefully this incident can motivate a serious effort to retire caucuses in the states that still have them.
Also this video is terrifying. That guy who starts pushing the fence is carrying a pipe or stick or something. You can also catch a glimpse of the chair-lifting guy.
Yeah I would be legitimately frightened for my safety if I were up on stage people there were acting kind of manic.
Also you mention the chair thing, but at :47 seconds someone on the right is holding a chair up but someone else reaches up to forcefully set it back down- maybe that's where the whole chair throwing thing comes from, someone there saw that at a distance and assumed someone threw it? Mystery solved?
Unreal. Just unreal.
Look at the media and peoples reactions to him.
Look at the people that AREN'T Bernie diehards, you know, the other 97% of the country. He is absolutely annihilating all the good will he had on the left and center. At this point all he has is his diehards that will stick by him, and the GOP, who probably wants to kiss his feet at this point.
But he destroyed the rest. Rest assured the left will bury any memory of this guy after the convention. No lasting memory, no revolution, nothing.
DOWN
Banned
He's hurting the causes that most align with his convictions by staying in, instead of ensuring they remain possible in the hands of those who are able to carry on and take action in the White House where he most certainly won't be going.
Unsurprising information.
I mean the front page of /r politics right now is two stories about Sanders accepting the Fox News debate, two stories about Clinton emails, a couple stories about how Sanders GE polls are marvellous, stories about how Sanders won Oregon (nothing about Kentucky though) and some stuff about the DNC and how unfair it's been to Sanders.
The whole upvoting system makes Reddit a total bubble.
I mean the front page of /r politics right now is two stories about Sanders accepting the Fox News debate, two stories about Clinton emails, a couple stories about how Sanders GE polls are marvellous, stories about how Sanders won Oregon (nothing about Kentucky though) and some stuff about the DNC and how unfair it's been to Sanders.
The whole upvoting system makes Reddit a total bubble.
when i looked there were two threads about the 13 minute clinton "lying" video lol
Oh damn you're right, one at the bottom and one at the top.
But hey, the Kentucky primary was only YESTERDAY, and that video is only four months old so, you know, I guess it's still timely.
The guy lifts a chair, moves towards the stage, then some people around him talks him out of it.
It's just kind of a pet-peeve of mine. The media has been running with the headline "Chairs were thrown!", which just results in apologists digging their head in the sand and saying "MSM spin machine at it again! No chairs were actually thrown! No one was actually punched in the face!"
Which entirely misses the point: the event was appalling. A guy considered throwing a chair. The committee was justifiably terrified for 12 hours. I would have been terrified to be there even if I wasn't on the main stage. This isn't how the party conventions should be, ever. If you focus on whether the chair left the guy's hand, you're missing the forest for the trees.
So yeah, I'm glad that Politifact made a small footnote to shoot it down, both because it's accurate and because it doesn't really matter in the context of every other absurd thing that happened.
DorkLord54
Member
Um, I'm pretty sure the GOP got its control because the Democrats at that convention gave its open racists the boot, while the GOP used this as an opportunity to court both the South to the Republican Party. The protests may have helped them gain these voters, but they would've gotten them in due time (and by that, I mean around the same time regardless thanks to things like the Civil Rights Act being passed by Democrats, despite them previously being the more openly racist of the two parties). Not to mention the Democrats were (rightfully) blamed for what was concurrently happening in Vietnam.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The big news about overtime pay for salary workers never made it to the first page. For a community that believes itself to be the most liberal of the liberal, it's rather sad such an amazing piece of progress was completely ignored to make room for five more threads about 6 month old Hillary stories from increasingly dubious sources.
BotoxAgent
Member
Yeah one of his many failings was his rhetoric and appeal towards the end of the primary became more and more geared to these fringe supporters and no attempt expand to larger base. He's a mess
Unknown Soldier
Member
No, we all left GAF political threads after getting bans.
It's okay, during my ban I actually went to r/Politics for the first time ever in my life and now I have a place to go when I want the truth.
This does not compute.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Yeah, Reddit, bastion of truth.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
You could also read this as learning that going to r/Politics is NOT the place to go. Maybe the time spent there was enough to convince them.
Reddit lost respect for Politifact a month or two ago. I don't remember the exact story, but they gave Politifact themselves a "Pants on fire" rating.
I mean like it's said on Politifact there are videos of the entire event and Redditors have received numerous reports from their own. They're going to believe their own narrative. They're very paranoid right now after Arizona and NY and they don't trust MSM.
I don't entirely know what the hell happened in Nevada and I don't know all rules and procedures and I'm not going to waste my time watching the entire convention video so who knows who is right.
Sort of. The Dixiecrats were pretty much given the boot for good in 1964 when Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act into law. From there, the Democrats were pretty much doomed at the Presidential level by demographics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Phillips_(political_commentator)
Of course, even then, the Democrats still controlled congress for another 24 years even though they only held the Presidency for six years during that time.
The protests at the 68 convention were mostly about the Vietnam War and conflicts between the "New Left" and the "Old Left". The presence of counterculture elements among the protesters probably helped the Republicans make inroads with cultural conservatives, though.
I think its interesting to look back at that time because the protests were in large part driven by generational differences. I think a similar dynamic is playing out in the Democratic party this year.
The Republicans weren't completely free from inter-party generational discord during that time either:
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I've grown tired of the reddit bullshit talk. Then you come along and justify it.
*sigh*
SolicitorPirate
Member
I genuinely can't tell if this is a joke or not
It's not. He was a delusional Bernie supporter in the political threads talking about Bernie winning NY by 20 points and whining about conspiracies. I was wondering what happened to him
BlastProcessing
Member
The problem is that he has shifted his message? I don't think he would have caught on if his original message focused on closed vs open primaries, superdelegates, and the minutia of caucus procedures. He has gone pretty far off message lately. He has moved more and more of his spotlight from Things that can improve our country to Things that can improve my ability to win.
He talks about the race like it's still close. It's not close. If states where winner take all/most like the GOP runs, Clinton would have won by now. If Superdelegates didn't exist, and those delegates were given out proportionally, Clinton would have won by now. If all contests were open primaries, Clinton would have won by now.
To underline how ahead Clinton is" Oregon is demographically similar to Canada; if you made Canada a state and gave Sanders a win there by his Oregon margins, he would still be over 200 delegates behind.
You know that Lawyer's saying, 'If the facts aren't on your side, argue the law? That's what Sanders is doing now. He is arguing about the rules and procedure because the democratic electorate has rejected his platform.
markofhavoc
Member
This is sarcasm right?
Just wanted to chime in that it's a bit ironic that Clinton camp is rightfully upset at the intense character assassination going from Sander supporters yet are fighting fire with fire by painting him as lunatic megalomaniac that wants power or fame or whatever other nonsense. The amount of ridicule for any Bernie supporters here is just insufferable.
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