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[Maximilian Kolbe]

Sure it's a rumor, but it is not tales from the ass type.

EDIT: particularly considering the Neo was just acknowledged by AH

If Scorpio coming fall 2017 i don't see it will use Polaris.

 

[orochi91]

not really. the argument is largely that it was inevitable that the industry would be headed in this direction, given all the other electronic devices doing the same thing it was only a matter of time for video game consoles to do it too.

i don't agree with that but it is what it is.

Yea, I can't think of any other major consumer electronic that doesn't have a tiered model system; almost everything sold these days has at least a base model and a premium model.

Consoles are finally adapting to the times and offering such basic options for consumers.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

They both use Polaris. The same chip that is on the 480 card releasing. Gies decided to cling to the max clock Flop performance on that current chip of 6TF. The 480 is a higher clocked Polaris (making it 5.5TF) than the earlier rumored spec leak of Neo.

After testing more, getting thermals in tune, there is nothing stopping Sony from upping the clocks speeds of the earlier than 480 clocks of 911mhz, and matching the speeds needed to produce similar Flops as MSFT's rumored goals.

Remembered, MSFT increased clocks to what they safely felt their chip could bare shortly before launch on the XBO.

Specs are not final until it ships. And even then, can always be adjusted in firmware after, like they did with the PSP.



Well, if it is the same Polaris chip in the 480, like people have discovered with some detective work, then yeah. As it is much easier than a whole new APU design obviously. But that is no longer what is going on here.

The difference between the 480 and the Neo chip is the clock speeds that translates the Flops (4.2 for Neo, 5.5 for 480).

Remember, XBO also upped the clocks to their comfort zone shortly before launch.

Polaris clocks can be pushed much further than the 'min spec' that was leaked about Neo well before the 480 final spec release.

Problem is, i can't see how they suddenly up from 911mhz to 1200mhz without any issue.
The fact that i can't see Xbox Scorpio have a 1200mhz GPU too if it's really 5.5-6TF, it's more likely they will use some better GPU with underclocked speed.

 

[The Artisan]

Yea, I can't think of any other major consumer electronic that doesn't have a tiered model system.

Almost everything sold these days has at least a base model and a premium model.

Consoles are finally adapting to the times and offering such basic options for consumers.

I don't know of any either, but that doesn't mean to me that it's necessary for consoles to do it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Problem is, i can't see how they suddenly up from 911mhz to 1200mhz without any issue.
The fact that i can't see Xbox Scorpio have a 1200mhz GPU too even it's 5.5-6TF, it's more likely they will use something better GPU with underclocked speed.

Polaris...

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-480-clock-speeds/

I don't know of any either, but that doesn't mean to me that it's necessary for consoles to do it.

It is when Sony as well as other console makers and even big publishers are saying hard resets are becoming too risky. Meaning, swallow the pill now, or expect heavy contraction and gaming to change in a much less disable way than we are used to if not.

I would choose the former over the latter, since a premium unit is optional and UC4, DOOM, etc., have proven everything will be okay on Vanilla.

 

[AstroNut325]

Just read Thuway's posts. I hadn't even considered the fact that this is the first E3 where Sony first party is going to be front and center! Whoa... Cannot wait. This is going to be amazing.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Polaris...

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-480-clock-speeds/

I'm talking about PS4 Neo version of 480, the GPU for PC can be 1200mhz without issue doesn't mean it can be same in PS4 Neo.

 

[The Artisan]

Polaris...

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-480-clock-speeds/



It is when Sony as well as other console makers and even big publishers are saying hard resets are becoming too risky. Meaning, swallow the pill now, or expect heavy contraction and gaming to change in a much less disable way than we are used to if not.

I would choose the former over the latter, since a premium unit is optional and UC4, DOOM, etc., have proven everything will be okay on Vanilla.

i don't see where the risk is in hard resets, especially given how successful the consoles have been.

 

[joecanada]

i don't see where the risk is in hard resets, especially given how successful the consoles have been.

With r&d costs very few hardware is profitable. Most never likely profit. Perhaps incremental upgrades will soften that blow

 

[The God]

I have mixed feelings.
An upgrade like this means Sony and Microsoft admit that they made a mistake at the start of the generation.

Nah it's just hubris.

 

[The Artisan]

With r&d costs very few hardware is profitable. Most never likely profit. Perhaps incremental upgrades will soften that blow

i thought they've been making a profit off of hardware all throughout this gen. new hardware more often means more r&d costs often.

 

[Renekton]

i thought they've been making a profit off of hardware all throughout this gen. new hardware more often means more r&d costs often.

At PS4 launch, Sony needed 1 full priced game purchase + 1 month PSN subscription to break even per box.

 

[The Artisan]

At PS4 launch, Sony needed 1 full priced game purchase + 1 month PSN subscription to break even per box.

but i thought very soon after that they were at least breaking even and then profiting with each console sold.

 

[joecanada]

i thought they've been making a profit off of hardware all throughout this gen. new hardware more often means more r&d costs often.

Well I'm no expert but I think slapping a new GPU in the box shouldn't cost too much with r&d . Also r&d costs for like ps3 were pegged as huge and Xbox hardware has never been profitable as far as the data has indicated that I've seen . They make it back on software, subs

 

[Renekton]

but i thought very soon after that they were at least breaking even and then profiting with each console sold.

I doubt it. They made some minor design cuts, but cost per silicon has not dropped and price competition forced the box to sometimes 299.

Well I'm no expert but I think slapping a new GPU in the box shouldn't cost too much with r&d.

Can't be cheap. Analysts peg cost of designing chips for new process at 9 figures.

 

[The Artisan]

Well I'm no expert but I think slapping a new GPU in the box shouldn't cost too much with r&d . Also r&d costs for like ps3 were pegged as huge and Xbox hardware has never been profitable as far as the data has indicated that I've seen . They make it back on software, subs

right, maybe the cost won't be that much higher but what i'm saying is it's still a higher cost nonetheless, instead of continuing to process the same hardware that's been selling extremely well for 2 years. it's a new, extra cost. so if profit is the excuse, then new costs make that nonsensical because it'd be adding to problem, not solving it. the way i see it anyway.

I doubt it. They made some minor design cuts, but cost per silicon has not dropped and price competition forced the box to sometimes 299.

half a year after the console released it was profitable

http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/23/5744344/ps4-already-profitable-for-sony-ceo-says

 

[orochi91]

i don't see where the risk is in hard resets, especially given how successful the consoles have been.

Now that they've transitioned to a more traditional PC architecture (x86), there's no more need for a hard reset every gen.

This will likely ensure that games will be compatible on future hardware; no more having to rebuy games to play on newer consoles. Your PS4 game should technically still be possible to run on the PS5, for example.

Also, think of the benefits to development cycles: no more having to master new/exotic console architectures and consequently having to reconfigure/redevelop existing engines. Games will get pumped out relatively faster and increasing development costs (a consequence of every new gen cycle) may be lessened.

 

[TheDragon]

Well, that means that they can focus more on games and PSVR. Cannot say I am disappointed for that. Plus, it feels like leaks are not very revealing (like trailers) this year, so it will be exciting.

 

[kyser73]

i don't see where the risk is in hard resets, especially given how successful the consoles have been.

Because developers have to retool for each architecture chèvre each gen. The platform holders have to get a lot of other companies to take a big risk and invert heavily on learning new things.

An iterative model without hard resets means devs can develop engines and pipelines knowing that they aren't going to need to be rebuilds every 5-6 years. That provides more chance for ROI in the engine, but allows for ongoing refinement of its capabilities as time goes on.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Give me the Neo I'll proceed to show you the money Sony

 

[orochi91]

Because developers have to retool for each architecture chèvre each gen.

Goat cheese?

Lol

 

[kyser73]

I doubt it. They made some minor design cuts, but cost per silicon has not dropped and price competition forced the box to sometimes 299.


Can't be cheap. Analysts peg cost of designing chips for new process at 9 figures.

One of the rumours about Neo is that AMD told Sony a new APU and updated chipset would be cheaper than trying to shrink the existing APU to a 14nm fab process.

 

[joecanada]

I doubt it. They made some minor design cuts, but cost per silicon has not dropped and price competition forced the box to sometimes 299.


Can't be cheap. Analysts peg cost of designing chips for new process at 9 figures.

Ya but then compare that to designing a whole new box from scratch

but i thought very soon after that they were at least breaking even and then profiting with each console sold.

Yes but let's even assume they do make say 50 on each console . So that's 50 dollars you made against what exactly? Manufacturing cost ? So where does the money come for advertising, employees, buildings, r&d, etc? A lot of that was a hole you started with could be hundreds of millions for a big company.

 

[duhmetree]

Upgrade the CPU and bump up the clock on the GPU. Why? It's a high-end product, a luxury. If you were in the market for a $399 NEO, you're more than likely still in the market for a beefier $499 NEO. If anything, this would generate more revenue and sales for Sony.

$499 neo
$299 slim

It's a win-win-win scenario.. Everybody is happy. Reveal it in the next week or month. Keepin' the Sony hype train going...

 

[Sanke__]

I was really hoping I would be going out Tuesday morning to pre order a brand new PlayStation console

I find it insane to bother talking about anything else at an e3 press conference when there is a brand new console hiding in the background

 

[duhmetree]

I have mixed feelings.
An upgrade like this means Sony and Microsoft admit that they made a mistake at the start of the generation.

An upgrade like this means there was a major leap in technology. Which there was. XB2 and PS5 will be sooner than one thinks as well.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

I'm ready for neo.

 

[2blackcats]

The Neo is a PS4, but the PS4 is not a Neo.

<3

 

[Yellowflashdude]

Understandable but my hype for E3 is going down. Not that there were a lot to begin with.

 

[joecanada]

I was really hoping I would be going out Tuesday morning to pre order a brand new PlayStation console

I find it insane to bother talking about anything else at an e3 press conference when there is a brand new console hiding in the background

I wonder if this means they don't really have a release date. I remember people selling their ps4 in the neo rumour thread lol. May not be out for another year ...

 

[Renekton]

half a year after the console released it was profitable

http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/23/5744344/ps4-already-profitable-for-sony-ceo-says

That link has no info about per SKU margins.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

i hope it gets delayed to match scorpios specs.

Sounds like some smart folks in here that might be able to answer this question for me!

On Podcast Beyond, Goldfarb had the idea that in order to not turn off the people who already bought a PS4, Sony might release an accessory that would be compatible with the current PS4 and upgrade it to Neo levels of power.

Is that even possible??

Don't know if it is possible, but it won't happen.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I have mixed feelings.
An upgrade like this means Sony and Microsoft admit that they made a mistake at the start of the generation.

So you would rather last gen drag on another 3 years or pay $800 for your launch PS4/Xbox One?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

i don't see where the risk is in hard resets, especially given how successful the consoles have been.

You don't see why Sony would not want to start over from scratch when they have dominance over the market? The transition from PS2 to PS3, Wii to Wii U and Xbox 360 to Xbox One shows just how drastic your fortunes can change with a hard reset. The goal is to keep your user base locked into your ecosystem going forward.

Understandable but my hype for E3 is going down. Not that there were a lot to begin with.

Seriously? If you are not excited for this E3 as a PlayStation owner why would you even care about a Neo? Games come first.

 

[Obscuritas]

They commented in making a more powerful box before sony did.

That's factually wrong.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

The rumored high price may point at the fact that Sony is indeed building a Neo with a better CPU than the rumored 2,1GHz Jaguar.

The earlier rumors said that Sony has two options in mind for Neo. A 400$ version with a pimped Jaguar, or a 500$ version with a much better CPU.

(http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199646466&postcount=1)


So I guess no Jaguar CPU when the console sells for 500$ or more?

 

[Fredrik]

I don't know of any either, but that doesn't mean to me that it's necessary for consoles to do it.

Same thoughts here. It was the best thing about console gaming, you bought one box which would give you the optimal gaming experience for 5 years or so, with better performing and looking games coming out over time.
If new consoles comes out yearly, or whatever the new plan is, then it'll become very expensive to be the top of the game on that platform, many of us will settle with the lowend model just to save money and instead of better performing and looking games as the time goes by we'll likely see worse looking and perfoming games instead since it'll always be a better speced platform around, we'll essentially always be in the lowend cross-gen territory.

But this is another discussion I guess. I'm taking the wait and see approach to the whole thing, as of now my console hardware money goes to NX.

 

[fritolay]

Sony changed plans after MS was going higher end on next version of console then?

 

[Tarnpanzer]

Sony changed plans after MS was going higher end on next version of console then?

I guess they considered two options in their plannings:

- 400$ price with jaguar cpu

- 500$ price with zen cpu

Now it seems they choosed option 2.

 

[killatopak]

Is this a reaction to XB1 upgrade?

Would be glad if both got more horsepower.

 

[Panajev2001a]

not really. the argument is largely that it was inevitable that the industry would be headed in this direction, given all the other electronic devices doing the same thing it was only a matter of time for video game consoles to do it too.

i don't agree with that but it is what it is.

The fact of the matter is that if you want the mobile space for example, although big players like Samsung and Apple do not want this to happen, the momentum is swinging away from yearly updates and even Apple itself is slowing down on the iPhone redesign distributing the changes over three years now instead of two.

MS and Sony started to dream about this a long time ago when rapid iPhone iterations were making more and more money every single year in a vertiginous climb upwards, but killing off the traditional console model to chase after iPhone money seems misguided, late, and anti consumer.

 

[jimbobsmells]

Upgrade the CPU and bump up the clock on the GPU. Why? It's a high-end product, a luxury. If you were in the market for a $399 NEO, you're more than likely still in the market for a beefier $499 NEO. If anything, this would generate more revenue and sales for Sony.

$499 neo
$299 slim

It's a win-win-win scenario.. Everybody is happy. Reveal it in the next week or month. Keepin' the Sony hype train going...

Yup I like this scenario.

 

[Kurt]

Sony does what NX does. Same reason. In the end, i see both as a new generation. A fresh start?

 

[blastprocessor]

AND ALL PEOPLE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS NEO? Why?

Said first party list could have been showcased on Neo as well though? It seems "compelling" content is not there right now.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Same thoughts here. It was the best thing about console gaming, you bought one box which would give you the optimal gaming experience for 5 years or so, with better performing and looking games coming out over time.
If new consoles comes out yearly, or whatever the new plan is, then it'll become very expensive to be the top of the game on that platform, many of us will settle with the lowend model just to save money and instead of better performing and looking games as the time goes by we'll likely see worse looking and perfoming games instead since it'll always be a better speced platform around, we'll essentially always be in the lowend cross-gen territory.

But this is another discussion I guess. I'm taking the wait and see approach to the whole thing, as of now my console hardware money goes to NX.

I guess that people proposing the yearly iterative model or something close to it are not the one hating on cross generation games as you will essentially be stuck to a rolling never ending cross generation phase while still paying top bucks from your hardware.

 

[Bishop89]

Good more time for games

 

[Panajev2001a]

So you would rather last gen drag on another 3 years or pay $800 for your launch PS4/Xbox One?

I would like a new generation of consoles 2-3 years from now, the current machines pushed and optimised to their limits, a brief cross generation phase of 1 year or so with some new exclusive games too and then focus on the new generation only, rinse and repeat... As a consumer I do not see why I would benefit from a new console every 2 years or so...

 

[Wollan]

Devkits are in the wild. We know 100% what the specs are (outside of 4K Blu-ray support or not).
All games will have to be Neo compatible starting October. These games will go Gold in August/September at the latest.

 

[Ashler]

Might as well just wait a couple more years and call it playstation 5, as it's basically going to be that.

 

[Asmodai48]

Polaris...

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-480-clock-speeds/



It is when Sony as well as other console makers and even big publishers are saying hard resets are becoming too risky. Meaning, swallow the pill now, or expect heavy contraction and gaming to change in a much less disable way than we are used to if not.

I would choose the former over the latter, since a premium unit is optional and UC4, DOOM, etc., have proven everything will be okay on Vanilla.

Hes talking about the 480... Console won't be able to clock like a PC desktop version.