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[Panajev2001a]

Might as well just wait a couple more years and call it playstation 5, as it's basically going to be that.

... but then MS and Sony (and Nintendo if they plan an iterative model for NX) would not make as much money as if they convinced you to buy $399 consoles every 2 years or less, which is their dream .

 

[TrynUrLuck]

I hope it's at least $600 with appropriate specs. I don't want a slight upgrade, there would be no point.I paid almost 700 for a gs7, I'm willing to do the same for a console.

 

[kyser73]

I guess that people proposing the yearly iterative model or something close to it are not the one hating on cross generation games as you will essentially be stuck to a rolling never ending cross generation phase while still paying top bucks from your hardware.

Who is proposing a yearly or bi-yearly iterative model? You're just pulling time periods out of your ass to support your point.

 

[geordiemp]

I guess that people proposing the yearly iterative model or something close to it are not the one hating on cross generation games as you will essentially be stuck to a rolling never ending cross generation phase while still paying top bucks from your hardware.

I have told you a million times not to exaggerate. What next, new model every month....aaarrrgggg, run for the bunker, alarm alarm !

This is the first iterative model after 3 (three) years. Thats more than 1 or 2, its 3. And its not out yet, maybe it could be 3.5 years.

 

[tedrotheredro]

C'mon Sony, I just want to know if it has UHD 4K Bluray support. Not buying a $400 player if I can upgrade my ps4 instead.

 

[jfoul]

I wouldn't be surprised if the NX, PS4K, and XB Scorpio release around the same time next year.

 

[Starfield]

I just want to know how the new consoles will be called officially.

Sony's probably something like PS Neo and Microsoft's maybe Xbox 10

 

[Tarnpanzer]

Devkits are in the wild. We know 100% what the specs are (outside of 4K Blu-ray support or not).

That are just rumors. Specs can change you know. (See PS4 - 4 to 8GB RAM)

I wouldn't be surprised if the NX, PS4K, and XB Scorpio release around the same time next year.

I would be heavily surprised.

Neo: 4Q ´16
NX: 1Q ´17
Scorpio: 3-4Q `17

is my guess.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Who is proposing a yearly or bi-yearly iterative model? You're just pulling time periods out of your ass to support your point.

You are right, we could go for 5/6 year iterations .
There is a certain shared understanding of what iterative models mean in modern high end consumer electronics, something shared by the executives trying to convince gamers that console generations should die:

"We see on other platforms whether it be mobile or PC that you get a continuous innovation that you rarely see on console," he said. "Consoles lock the hardware and the software platforms together at the beginning of the generation. Then you ride the generation out for seven or so years, while other ecosystems are getting better, faster, stronger. [...]"

http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/1/11121666/xbox-one-hardware-upgrades-phil-spencer-microsoft

I particularly like how he stresses on as many negative connotations as possible when describing the current model: other ecosystem getting stronger and stronger (not mentioning how on those ecosystems the users constantly buying new top of the line HW is a niche part of the market, especially on the PC side, and the problems this fragmentation brings lead to software developed against a common denominator abstract spec), riding it out for seven or so years (7 years or so cycles happened only in one generation so far), locking hardware and software early and then just riding it out (as if a fixed target spec developers could rely on is not something helpful for them and for gamers, including the nice hardcore PC ones which get to use their GPU's to drive them games to the extreme as they were optimised for consoles top line PC end up surpassing in the generation), etc...

Anyway, I do not really understand your aggressiveness on this subject, but to each his or her own...

 

[Wollan]

PS4K makes too much sense not to.

 

[cosmicstarbeast]

Is this a reaction to XB1 upgrade?

Would be glad if both got more horsepower.

Yes and no, people here are lying to themselves if they think Sony isn't waiting to see what MS will do to combat this latest news.

Are they scared? Not really, they just want more games to showcase the power of PS4/Neo. If the rules about no Neo exclusives is true, they will have to depend on the console upgraded version of games to showcase its power to the consumers.

 

[jfoul]

I just want to know how the new consoles will be called officially.

Sony's probably something like PS Neo and Microsoft's maybe Xbox 10

I think MS should just stick to the S and Elite branding each gen.

• Xbox One - Launch
• Xbox One S - Redesign/Slim
• Xbox One Elite - Upgraded hardware/Premium

• Xbox Two - Launch
• Xbox Two S - Redesign/Slim
• Xbox Two Elite - Upgraded hardware/Premium

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Yes in some cases. It's pretty much common knowledge that a lot of these games are shown on beefed up PCs.

So you're concerned that the status quo is still the status quo? If there is no Neo, games will be shown on my more powerful PCs anyway, is that what you're saying?

Edit: I've finally caught up with the thread after posting this, and it seems sornygaf has banned this guy. Lol. I thought poor Rex was going to blow a fuse and miss E3.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I have told you a million times not to exaggerate. What next, new model every month....aaarrrgggg, run for the bunker, alarm alarm !

Wow, sorry to disobey... Worried about this thing not coming to pass ?

Seriously though, I still need to see good arguments about why this is good for gamers/consumers in general and better than the current 5-6 years cycle (also for PC gamers considering the current console generation models I rings a lot of benefits to PC gamers too indirectly).

Backward compatibility and not cooletely changing architecture very generation is not an exclusive benefit of a more iPhone like update plan. Also, shortening iteration cycles means that you have less time to spread R&D, production, and launch marketing costs over and that cost will be passed along to consumers in terms of price to value ratio.

This is the first iterative model after 3 (three) years. Thats more than 1 or 2, its 3. And its not out yet, maybe it could be 3.5 years.

Sure, but that is likely because by the time you start the plans and get something which is a worthy upgrade for people and you are ready to polish all the kinks and take it to market a few years will have passed. I do not think this plan started at the same time PS4 R&D started, but it does not mean that the newer iteration would be 3.5 years away.

If this falls flat on its face the console makers will abandon the iterative plan, but if it takes hold it stands to reason that they will try again with a shorter iteration next time trying to get a balance between the very short iteration cycles they desire and what consumers would reject. Would you rather sell iterative $399 boxes every 3 years or every 6 years? Would you rather sell iterative $399 boxes every 1.5 years or every 3 years? The answer is easy... The lowest number we can convince the market to buy into.

 

[DragonKnight]

I think MS should just stick to the S and Elite branding each gen.

• Xbox One - Launch
• Xbox One S - Redesign/Slim
• Xbox One Elite - Upgraded hardware/Premium

• Xbox Two - Launch
• Xbox Two S - Redesign/Slim
• Xbox Two Elite - Upgraded hardware/Premium

Even though the namijg convention bites Apple, I dig this idea.

 

[Panajev2001a]

PS4K makes too much sense not to.

Oh sure, I am not saying it does not make sense for Sony to try and launch it and are actually the ones doing in a way very very considerate of current PS4 owners. I am saying that I see nothing good for me as a consumer in shorter console iterations despite what Insee as misleading statements by HW manufacturers.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

I'm glad that it's a no-go at E3.

Agreed. The worst I could imagine was taking guesses if I'm seeing Neo or non-Neo gameplay at every new reveal, while never getting an answer.

Or, almost worse, starting off the conference with "All gameplay you'll see will be on Neo!" without ever showing regular PS4 comparisons.

 

[geordiemp]

Seriously though, I still need to see good arguments about why this is good for gamers/consumers in general and better than the current 5-6 years cycle (also for PC gamers considering the current console generation models I rings a lot of benefits to PC gamers too indirectly).

Nah, your wrong. Phones change every couple of years or more as they are subsidised contracts (and fashion accessories - people like showing latest tech in the pub).

This does not apply to consoles, a box hidden under your TV. People change cars or TV's to show off/ have nice things, but tech specs of a black box. Not so much.

The reason we have to have iterative consoles in 2016/2017 is because 28 nm >> 14 nm.

Its a massive process improvement and power triple almost for the same price. Think about that, then lets discuss. Its not happening now because its cool lol. PC gamers are also upgrading en masse, big performance for low power and this is the year.

When will Ps5 / Xb2 launch - well, when we go from 5 to 15 TF for same price it would be a given. Will that happen in 1 year ? hell no.

Neo and Scorpio will be good until > 10 TF is cheaply attainable to the masses. 10 nm roadmap and HBM2 maybe, but it might be more than 3 or 4 years.

Nobody is going to ditch a 5 TF console for a 7 TF console that is indistinguishable in how games run because Sony / MS or Nintendo think there is money to be had.

Think about it this way, new tech is needed when we need to move to new levels of play. We are 1080p30 now for allot of games, enthusiasts are hungry for 1080p60 for games like witcher 3.

Once you have Witcher 3 at 1080p60 and souls games etc and GTA5, what is the next enticing thing ? VR maybe, but a new console in 2020 that plays 4K = who cares ? It will take 4K60 before people move en masse.

 

[FrozenCell]

what a tease

 

[Hermii]

"Waiting for the games to be ready"

Yea right. You are doing this to sell more vanilla PS4s because fewer people will know there is an upgrade coming.

 

[HughJanuss]

I still believe that the fact Neo exist really caught Microsoft off guard. In my opinion, Microsoft wanted to do what they did with the 360..
The OG Xbox wasnt doing so well and only 4 years later they released the 360 which was a huge success for them.
They probably wanted to do the same with scorpio with another year headstart and the Neo just fucked up everything for them.
Of course all of this could be just in my mind (lol) but this is how I feel.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Why would you expect it to be the same price or cheaper than what they offer now?

The Neo will launch at $400

Too close to the Launch PS4 price of $350. I'd guess it's going to have 4 Excavator packages and they might spend more on the heat sync and fan and up the clock.

When the leak came out they were deciding the CPU and if they chose something besides a CAT CPU it would cost $100 more or likely $499. Well it's costing more and the Launch PS4 will sell along side the NEO. $50 is too little, who would buy the less powerful PS4 with only a $50 difference.

 

[JonathanPower]

No shit sherlock, you made it mandatory for devs lol

I think he means almost all games should add some specific improvements to take advantage of the new hw.

 

[geordiemp]

Too close to the Launch PS4 price of $350. I'd guess it's going to have 4 Excavator packages and they might spend more on the heat sync and fan and up the clock.

When the leak came out they were deciding the CPU and if they chose something besides a CAT CPU it would cost $100 more or likely $499. Well it's costing more and the Launch PS4 will sell along side the NEO. $50 is too little, who would buy the less powerful PS4 with only a $50 difference.

Zen is out this year, if sony are to put money into the CPU, would they would be better trying to get zen lite and take a small hit to timescale ?

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

I think Original PS4 will go down to 300, neos will be 400 - 450.

 

[JonathanPower]

I think Original PS4 will go down to 300, neos will be 400 - 450.

Yes. It's likely the base PS4 will be 299$ and Neo will be 399$.

 

[III-V]

It isn't about gettimg your money's worth, it is about how one feels. Having the 'piece of shit' version feels bad. It is how companies upsell people.

The poster I quoted complained about not getting their monies worth.

What grahics hype?

There have been several Neo threads where posters are thinking if its 1080p 30 its now 1080p 60, or if its 900p60 its now 1080p or others claim we will see the same 1080p30 just increased alpha effects.

If Scorpio coming fall 2017 i don't see it will use Polaris.

OK, care to share why that you have that reasoning exactly?

 

[The God]

I have told you a million times not to exaggerate. What next, new model every month....aaarrrgggg, run for the bunker, alarm alarm !

This is the first iterative model after 3 (three) years. Thats more than 1 or 2, its 3. And its not out yet, maybe it could be 3.5 years.

Damn, are you his father or something? lol

 

[jeff_rigby]

They both use Polaris. The same chip that is on the 480 card releasing. Gies decided to cling to the max clock Flop performance on that current chip of 6TF. The 480 is a higher clocked Polaris (making it 5.5TF) than the earlier rumored spec leak of Neo.

After testing more, getting thermals in tune, there is nothing stopping Sony from upping the clocks speeds of the earlier than 480 clocks of 911mhz, and matching the speeds needed to produce similar Flops as MSFT's rumored goals.

Remembered, MSFT increased clocks to what they safely felt their chip could bare shortly before launch on the XBO.

Specs are not final until it ships. And even then, can always be adjusted in firmware after, like they did with the PSP.



Well, if it is the same Polaris chip in the 480, like people have discovered with some detective work, then yeah. As it is much easier than a whole new APU design obviously. But that is no longer what is going on here.

The difference between the 480 and the Neo chip is the clock speeds that translates the Flops (4.2 for Neo, 5.5 for 480).

Remember, XBO also upped the clocks to their comfort zone shortly before launch.

Polaris clocks can be pushed much further than the 'min spec' that was leaked about Neo well before the 480 final spec release.

What allows Scorpio the TDP to do 6TF is the power saved in using HBM2 over GDDR5 (about 40 watts;GDDDR5 can use 60 watts split mostly between the memory controller in the GPU and memory). Microsoft can not use GDDR5 unless they move the ARM IP out of the APU/SOC like Sony did, Microsoft must use Vega and HBM2 and the HBM2 is what will delay Scorpio and likely make it more expensive.

From all the rumors and both the Neo and Scorpio being more expensive, there will be a Slim and performance version for both the PS4 and XB1. If Microsoft uses some of the Polaris design with DDR3/4 they can get a XB1 slim with performance close to the PS4 Launch.

 

[family_guy]

Would you rather sell iterative $399 boxes every 3 years or every 6 years? Would you rather sell iterative $399 boxes every 1.5 years or every 3 years? The answer is easy... The lowest number we can convince the market to buy into.

Does it really matter? Manufacturers set their release cycle, but YOU set your upgrade cycle. Cars last a long time if you take care of them. Just because Honda has a new Accord every year doesn't mean you have to upgrade on their cycle. Same thing with TVs and phones. Will my older TV and phone perform a little worse and get less updates over time? Of course. If it no longer becomes acceptable, I go looking for something newer. If I wanted a new TV or phone today, I personally would not consider a model with tech from 2013, but someone else who wants a good deal may, so there are models for those who want the latest and those who want to save money. Before with consoles you had no option. It might be bad for people who feel like they need to the keep up with the Joneses so to speak, but that's a psychological issue. Sure someone could just go to PC, but honestly people that would do that as a reaction to this are such a small number that it doesn't even matter. It's like a long time Mac purchaser getting mad at Apple and switching to Windows. They'll be back.

 

[Darryl M R]

I also hope the Neo allows for 1080p remote play on PC/Mac.

 

[geordiemp]

Damn, are you his father or something? lol

Do your homework and you can have some tea.

W Microsoft can not use GDDR5 unless they move the ARM IP out of the APU/SOC like Sony did, Microsoft must use Vega and HBM2 and the HBM2 is what will delay Scorpio and likely make it more expensive..

Why, MS in Xb1 uses a virtual OS and API, if thats true than the game code does not care about the Netx XBox architecture.

MS could do a Neo design if they wanted to and make it compatible with Xb1 and going forward.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Zen is out this year, if sony are to put money into the CPU, would they would be better trying to get zen lite and take a small hit to timescale ?

Here are the problems for me:

1, The leak about being undecided about the CPU came in late March when some devs already had the Jaguar based Neo dev kits.

2, If Sony for some reason decided at the last minute to change to Zen then surely they would have to have AMD go back to the drawing board and redesign a APU again? Unlikely in the extreme for me.

That is just off the top of my head and I must say again that for me (given the venue of the leak) it never made much sense to me. Also the only Zen CPU stated to hit this year is the high end desktop i5/7 8-core chip. Zen APUs are next year and unless Sony was going Zen right from the beginning or not coming until late 2017 then I can't see Neo being anything other than Jaguar based.

 

[fritolay]

I guess they considered two options in their plannings:

- 400$ price with jaguar cpu

- 500$ price with zen cpu

Now it seems they choosed option 2.

Then the rumors of launch time frame is moved back too?

 

[jeff_rigby]

Oh sure, I am not saying it does not make sense for Sony to try and launch it and are actually the ones doing in a way very very considerate of current PS4 owners. I am saying that I see nothing good for me as a consumer in shorter console iterations despite what Insee as misleading statements by HW manufacturers.

I think it's more a matter of the APUs getting 25x more efficient by 2020 is too attractive. First node shrink (14nm FinFET) is only 40% more efficient but you add the efficiencies in the AMD design and it's 2.5X at nearly the same price. Problem is to get those efficiencies (over the node shrink) you need to compile the game for the new hardware.

 

[geordiemp]

Here are the problems for me:

1, The leak about being undecided about the CPU came in late March when some devs already had the Jaguar based Neo dev kits.

2, If Sony for some reason decided at the last minute to change to Zen then surely they would have to have AMD go back to the drawing board and redesign a APU again? Unlikely in the extreme for me.

That is just off the top of my head and I must say again that for me (given the venue of the leak) it never made much sense to me. Also the only Zen CPU stated to hit this year is the high end desktop i5/7 8-core chip. Zen APUs are next year and unless Sony was going Zen right from the beginning or not coming until late 2017 then I can't see Neo being anything other than Jaguar based.

Oh I agree zen is a long shot, you would hope that Sony would understand how imbalanced the next step is in power (too much GPU / too little everything else) and would of planned way ahead. And maybe AMD are in good progress and the CPU upgrade was a placeholder....

I dont know, but Jaguar 14 nm is obvious, but what would be the CPU upgrade ?

Whats the point of another old CPU design instead of Jaguar (which would cost just as much in design).....with zen on the doorstep. It does not make any sense.

All I can see for options is Jaguar 2.1 + Gddr5 or Zen + gdd5x as the upgrade. What other option is there for the upgrade ?

If we all can see it like a sore thumb, surely Cerny or whoever is in charge can.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Do your homework and you can have some tea.

Why, MS in Xb1 uses a virtual OS and API, if thats true than the game code does not care about the Netx XBox architecture.

MS could do a Neo design if they wanted to and make it compatible with Xb1 and going forward.

First, you do know that there is allot of ARM hardware in AMD APUs including the XB1. The 15 accelerators in the XB1 are all ARM on a AXI bus. ARM Trustzone is used for the trusted boot and TEE. The ARM hardware is also used for Network standby which needs the lowest power use possible. Microsoft and Sony have a voluntary agreement with the EU power board to use best practice to keep power use lower with attention to modes like Standby which are always on. Note: This letter also mentions the XB1 and PS4 Launch consoles as UHD capable and dates 2017 and 2019 as Power tier reduction dates which means new designs on new node sizes.

GDDR5 can not be throttled down enough for Network standby and Media power modes. Full on GDDR5 can use up to 60 watts and at the lowest clock is somewhere less than 10 watts but the standby target is 1/2 watt which neither the PS4 or XB1 meet even using DDR3.

So Sony moved the ARM IP out of the APU so they can use GDDR5 and Microsoft left it in so they have to use DDR3 and a more expensive 32MB SDRAM in chip to help make up for the slower RAM. If Microsoft wants to use GDDR5 with Polaris they must move the ARM IP to Southbridge like Sony did. Not using HBM2 means they can't use the saving in power for the GPU and they will have the same performance/TDP the NEO has and the same TF if they use the same CPU and the same release date.

So 6TF for Scorpio means they are using Vega IP and HBM2 which is more expensive and likely shipping later than Neo.

Some of the 15 Accelerators will be used for OpenVX which in the last two months Nvidia and AMD have released with AMD at version .9 with V 1.1 the latest to include tiling. Sony and Microsoft should release openVX APIs to developers which are up to 25 times more efficient than OpenCV just using GPU Compute. Pre and post processing can be done by accelerators which for the PS4 (in southbridge) means vision processing for camera input and for the XB1 and I think the PS4 anti-aliasing offloaded from the GPU.

OpenVX 1.0 was released by Khronos October 2014 and I expected Sony to implement it immediately. I was wrong as Panajev2001a pointed out. Sony and Microsoft want developers an easy port to PCs and OpenVX available on PCs before they release OpenVX on Consoles. OpenVX will be used for VR and I think a push to get it out to developers in time for VR later this year.

The final touches for HTML5 <video> EME MSE are scheduled for September and this may be why the PS4 and XB1 have not been firmware updated for UHD and the industry hasn't implemented Vidipath. These last two open source projects are necessary for the NEO and Launch PS4 to support VR and UHD which also impacts the NEO release date, VR and PS4 firmware 4.0

 

[El-Suave]

I've made my peace with the Neo. I think of it as a "reverse slim" console. The PS4 can't be much better/smaller as far as form factor is concerned and the price is pretty competetive and acceptable, too. The whole package is still pretty popular. You don't need a traditional slim, so Sony is going the opposite route, trying to extract money from the other end of the fan base.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I hope it's at least $600 with appropriate specs. I don't want a slight upgrade, there would be no point.I paid almost 700 for a gs7, I'm willing to do the same for a console.

You're going to be very disappointed...

 

[DagnastyEp]

I'm not surprised that Sony is waiting to officially show off Neo, a big announcement like this needs it's own event. Plus it would be good to get distance from MS in case they announce anything.

My guess is that PS4 will drop to $299, and Neo will be $399. The specs will be identical to leaks, with perhaps *minor* adjustments to clocks. I see lots of people hoping for an upgraded CPU (over the clock speed boost), but I doubt that will happen.

OK, care to share why that you have that reasoning exactly?

We know next to nothing about Scorpio, everything is speculation. A GPU located in an APU for a console will never be clocked as high as the standalone desktop gpu part. I think it's more reasonable to speculate that Scorpio will use a larger gpu (than polaris/480) at lower clocks to get into the rumored 5-6 TF range.

 

[Madchad]

What will sell some consoles is if they dont force frame rate parity in online fps gaming. People gota have the "edge" thus will gravitate to the more powerful one.

Would not be surprised if COD/Battlefield do a bundle with the Neo saying it gives you the advantage online. Mummy can i have one i needs it to gitgud.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Oh I agree zen is a long shot, you would hope that Sony would understand how imbalanced the next step is in power (too much GPU / too little everything else) and would of planned way ahead. And maybe AMD are in good progress and the CPU upgrade was a placeholder....

I dont know, but Jaguar 14 nm is obvious, but why what would be the upgrade, whats the point of another old CPU design instead of Jaguar with zen on the doorstep. It does not make sense.

If we all can see it like a sore thumb, surely Cerny or whoever is in charge can.

Simply because Neo isn't about being more powerful. It is a slim/die shrink that came at a time where all the CPU/GPU stars aligned that presented Sony and AMD a win/win situation.

For Sony this meant 2X power for a similar price/power budget as a OG PS4 that marketing could use to sell as a high end model as well as backward/forward compatibility. For AMD it meant not having the headache of shrinking the PS4 APU to 14nm (I believe shrinking some parts can be difficult?) and getting Polaris made in the millions (helps AMD hitting $199 for RX480?).

Something like that?

 

[geordiemp]

What will sell some consoles is if they dont force frame rate parity in online fps gaming. People gota have the "edge" thus will gravitate to the more powerful one.

Would not be surprised if COD/Battlefield do a bundle with the Neo saying it gives you the advantage online. Mummy can i have one i needs it to gitgud.

Those games are 60 FPS anyway, BF1 Neo will just give you 1080p as opposed to 900p on Ps4 or the adaptive scaling employed. COD is already 1080p60. Frame rate is not so important as servers, PING and the game tick rate (how often your actions are implemented in the game and the server updates your game with what opponents are doing)

For AMD it meant not having the headache of shrinking the PS4 APU to 14nm (I believe shrinking some parts can be difficult?) and getting Polaris made in the millions (helps AMD hitting $199 for RX480?).

Yeah for the low cost Neo, but Osiris leak said their was an expensive higher end option available. He even said upgraded CPU and 499 $....So if Osiris had not leaked that upgrade option, then its clear Neo would be just upclocked Jaguar and Polaris and be done.

He has been teasing maybe they take the red pill....hence what could the upgarde be ? Maybe they just slap on a fancy cooler and go more clock...who knows. But for me the other upgrade option could only be zen, its all that is logical if more power was wanted.

 

[Chû Totoro]

Means "we have difficulties to show games that could justify the upgrade so we're waiting"

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

So if we're at a 0% likelihood for a Neo reveal @ E3, how likely do you think a Neo showing would be at the following?

• Gamescom?
• Paris Games Week?
• TGS?

If it's shown at any of the above, when do you think it'd release? (If announced at Gamescom, Paris Games Week, etc...)

I'm thinking PSX.

Or maybe a standalone event next year, although I kinda doubt that would happen ala a new PS generation reveal.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Yeah for the low cost Neo, but Osiris leak said their was an expensive higher end option available. He even said upgraded CPU and 499 $....So if Osiris had not leaked that upgrade option, then its clear Neo would be just upclocked Jaguar and Polaris and be done.

He has been teasing maybe they take the red pill....hence what could the upgarde be ? Maybe they just slap on a fancy cooler and go more clock...who knows. But for me the other upgrade option could only be zen, its all that is logical if more power was wanted.

I don't know why it hasn't been elaborated on. Remember though we are talking about some sort of Sony rep doing a sales pitch to GameStop.

 

[Jabba]

All the disappointed people have no one to blame but themselves. You know how you reveal Neo?

You reveal Neo by giving it an entirely seperate event where architects, engineers, developers, and key designers are given time to do a deep dive on the product. You take the proper time to enunciate the rhetoric necessary to explain to consumers why this product exists, who the target audience it's for, and what it's capable of. And guess what? You should take a heavy look at the unveil of the PS4 at the PlayStation meeting in February of 2013 to see how that's done.

You don't dedicate an entire E3 programme to Neo. A time where- the majority of consumers are concerned with seeing the latest and greatest software for your platform- just one month after this generation's highest rated, technical showpiece just launched. You want to reinforce the base, and keep them coming.

I haven't been surfing Gaf like I used to for weeks. Is this conjecture or has there been more information? Shit, I should have been more clear. I'm aware of the past with heads rolling and the new focus, just not current plans with software. Apologies thuway.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Nah, your wrong. Phones change every couple of years or more as they are subsidised contracts (and fashion accessories - people like showing latest tech in the pub).

Then nobody this year should have had any worries about the S revision of the iPhone selling at a slower pace compared to its predecessor and Apple spreading their big upgrades further out (it looks like iPhone 8 will have the big redesign with the iPhone 7 is still on the iPhone 6 evolutionary path).

This does not apply to consoles, a box hidden under your TV. People change cars or TV's to show off/ have nice things, but tech specs of a black box. Not so much.

So console specs do not matter to people but the reason new upgraded hardware is being pushed out to people is because there is a chance to pump the specs high enough in a financially sound way (next portion of your post)?

The reason we have to have iterative consoles in 2016/2017 is because 28 nm >> 14 nm.

Its a massive process improvement and power triple almost for the same price. Think about that, then lets discuss. Its not happening now because its cool lol.

It is happening now because it can bring in money and because the performance jump already available can help make the concept of iterative consoles easier to get consumers to buy into.

When will Ps5 / Xb2 launch - well, when we go from 5 to 15 TF for same price it would be a given. Will that happen in 1 year ? hell no.

Neo and Scorpio will be good until > 10 TF is cheaply attainable to the masses. 10 nm roadmap and HBM2 maybe, but it might be more than 3 or 4 years.

Nobody is going to ditch a 5 TF console for a 7 TF console that is indistinguishable in how games run because Sony / MS or Nintendo think there is money to be had.

Still, you are focusing on how it could be done and why they would want to do it now (and with rational arguments too, especially from the hardware manufacturers point of view), but hardly one thing that says why a backward compatible PS5 in 2018 is worse for consumers and developers than having a PS4K in 2016 and a PS5 in 2020 or so... as well as no agument about why short iteration cycles are better for gamers or developers.

In a way the argument I see seems to translate into

"manufacturing node updates are spreading further out and out (e.g.: see Intel moving away from the tick and rock model) making the wait between big technology jumps longer and longer..." ----> "... So let's release more hardware more often..."

I do not see how killing the concept of a console and shorten the upgrade cycles goes along with the slowing down in semiconductor manufacturing technology...

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

I'm so confused right now. I thought Neo was planned to do 4k? Then some people are saying you'll go from 30fps to 60fps and now it seems it's a bare incremental upgrade that maybe can get you from 900p up to 1080p. What actually is right here? Is this PS4.9 or PS4.1?

I really feel like Sony need to talk about this system at E3 personally. Whether they intended to or not, they've left me extremely hesitant to purchase games for the system anymore because I don't know their plan. Do I pay for upgrades in the future for this system or are they free? If I owned one and tried to play an 'enhanced' game will I get PS4 standard quality without paying again? I really don't think I'll be buying games for the system anymore without some idea of how this will play out.

Even just the way he worded the last sentence makes it sound like some of my PS4 games won't even work on the system.

 

[KinofChaos]

Means "we have difficulties to show games that could justify the upgrade so we're waiting"

Tales from your ass.