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[Collectable]

Not sure i understand the concept correctly but wouldn't this cut into their portable market profits? I have to assume that something like this would make the NX a bit pricey (at least more so than the handhelds alone) so folks might shy away from it because of that.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Not sure i understand the concept correctly but wouldn't this cut into their portable market profits? I have to assume that something like this would make the NX a bit pricey (at least more so than the handhelds alone) so folks might shy away from it because of that.

Mobile tech is getting more powerful and more affordable all the time.

They already have the brilliant streaming tech from the WiiU, why not use it? If Nintendo are willing to take a loss initially and get this right, a hybrid.could be fucking amazing.

 

[AmFreak]

The wording and the metric used for the 10% figure was so strange, that it sounded like you were suggesting that when both handheld and console are working together the hybrid throughput would only go 10% above what the handheld could do alone. Thankfully that's not the case since it would be factually wrong.

10% above what the console could do alone.

Yes, the SOC for Smartphones are around that processing metric. But since we mention top of the line SOC's, the Tegra X1 released in 2015 deserves mention. It is between 512 and 1024 gflops. Not suggesting that's in Nintendo's range. But maybe they could have something with Nvidia that delivers similar ball park when both handheld and console work together at a reasonable price for them.

X1 is 512gflops in fp32 aka the format/precision relevant for console games.
The only devices that use it are the Shield TV and the Pixel C.
Both able to draw more power than a hh would.
Nvidia's Jetson Dev-Board has a tdp of 15W, far to much for a handheld.
This is all @ 20nm, so a 14/16nm version would help but even than 512gflops is very much out of question.

More over, why are we comparing it to the PS4? Why their system specs should compete with Sony or MS?

It was just an example to show you how far away a then 3-4 year old console already is from this hypothetical high-end hh.

As far as i remember Nintendo makes handhelds in the 150 - 200 price range, save for the first few months of 3DS life.

The Home part of the hybrid would be basically the same hardware with features taken away from the handheld. So packing the 2 together wouldn't cost 400 dollars as you are suggesting.

My calculation was based on the console part higher specced than the hh one.
If you make the console hardware the same as the hh one it even gets worse.
The hh cost you $150-200 extra, while a $50 more invested in the stand alone console would already add more power than the hh would.

 

[Refreshment.01]

10% above what the console could do alone.

????

In a hybrid platform the console and hanheld hardware would be similar. In the scenario we are discussing the 10% figure doesn't apply.

X1 is 512gflops in fp32 aka the format/precision relevant for console games.
The only devices that use it are the Shield TV and the Pixel C.
Both able to draw more power than a hh would.
Nvidia's Jetson Dev-Board has a tdp of 15W, far to much for a handheld.
This is all @ 20nm, so a 14/16nm version would help but even than 512gflops is very much out of question.

Yes, i didn't said the opposite in my preview post.

Maybe the handheld and console working together with lesser hardware, like the SOC on smartphones, could get close to the figure.

My calculation was based on the console part higher specced than the hh one.
If you make the console hardware the same as the hh one it even gets worse.
The hh cost you $150-200 extra, while a $50 more invested in the stand alone console would already add more power than the hh would.

But the proposal always have been about equal hardware across both platforms. Why introduce other variables?

It's not about power only, is about features, options and a different sales proposal than the competition.

In terms of paying extra as you propose about, maybe is it the inverse? Maybe with a 100 extra you are getting the home console and the handheld. Nintendo main chunk of their busyness is centered around portable consoles. They would be selling the Handheld as they always have, but now, they are making the home platform more attractive to those handheld users and adding extra functionality to the home console.

 

[ShadowFox08]

I like the idea, but I'm a bit unsure about putting all the eggs in one basket.

We're talking bigger budgets overall for devs that would be based off the console build.

 

[tronic307]

I'd by an NX console/handheld bundle but I don't know how many other people would. Wouldn't something like that cost $450?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

What you're describing is essentially a shared platform ecosystem, not a hybrid. The only difference in your scenario is that both handheld and home console units would be packaged together, instead of being made available as separate SKUs. Your idea is akin to Apple sellling an iPod Touch and an Apple TV in the same box.

When people talk about a Nintendo "hybrid", they're referring to a portable system that would either connect to a television via HDMI or through a docking station. This idea is absolutely horrible and there's no way Nintendo is going to implement something like it.

Your proposal is far more reasonable. The only area of disagreement I have is that Nintendo won't sell both units together. You'll need to purchase each device separately.

 

[Jubenhimer]

I don't really see a hybrid as very practical. Not to mention, it drives up the cost, which is something Nintendo will want to avoid.

If you want my guess, I don't think the NX will be it's own platform at all. I personally think it's nothing more than a pawn in a much more ambitious project. A software Operating System developed by Nintendo, that can be run on Home boxes, pocket devices, tablets, and even Smart TVs in the future. Think of it as Nintendo's answer to Windows 10. "Dedicated games device" I think is just a big fancy term for an entertainment device with games as the selling point.

 

[Tonedeff]

I like the hybrid idea, but i'd change it up. I'd like to walk into a store and be presented with three options:

A) The portable/controller. If I just want to game on the go (or for any other reason), I can get this and play Pokémon and Fire Emblem and all the other traditioanally portable-only titles. Also stuff like eShop games and maybe even console games that included CrossBuy/Play-like features.

B) The NX console. If I were to SKU it out, this one would just have something like a new Pro controller. Plays NX console games and eShop titles.

C) Both A and B. Knowing Nintendo, they would probably drop the Pro controller for this, but of course, in my hypothetical, I wouldn't. Either way, this would be the "Ultimate" version. Hell, in my dream scenario, some of these portable games would have features to allow you to play on the big screen, or some other portable-console specific action, if you have both.

But like I said, this is but a dream. I'm not too up to date on the current "Consensus Theory" on whatever Nintendo is planning to release yet, but I do remember hearing that they might go all in on the hybrid idea, which would just be too good: I've wanted something like this since the GBA-Gamecube days.

 

[jchap]

There is no way this is going to be a hybrid in one SKU.

 

[psychodino]

If it's 399 the console will be DOA

Apologies in advance if this has already been de-confirmed somewhere. But assuming it's still possible, the idea of NX being a two-in-one console/portable hybrid sounds pretty cool. I just wanted to mull over the idea a bit more.

Again, I don't know if it's plausible. I'm no expert on tech, so don't take this as the musings of some obnoxious know-it-all. It's just for fun, inspired by cryptic Kimishima comments on NX that suggest it's neither a straight WiiU successor nor 3DS successor, as well as the Emily Rogers rumor on eliminating software redundancy, and the talk of cartridges.


The concept:

Imagine if they found a cost-effective way to give us one SKU that includes both a console component and portable component, right out of the box. Say each component lacks a costly/failure-prone optical disk drive, and instead uses a propriety high-capacity cartridge format for retail games. Let's say you can still install the games to an HDD or SSD, as well.

In this scenario, you could buy Zelda NX on a cartridge and it'd work with both the console and portable that came in the same box. You could plug it into the console and it'd output at "high" settings on your TV — let's say specs comparable to PS4. You could also plug it into the portable and it'd output at "low" settings — let's say comparable to WiiU.

You could save your progress to the card, so continuing where you left off would be as simple as popping it out of one and into the other. You could also still save to the system itself, or maybe the cloud if they introduce that service with MyNintendo.

At home, the portable could double as the GamePad for the console, allowing you to play games that take advantage of both screens. And when you're on the go, playing only on the portable, the HUD could have a tab in the corner of the touchscreen that brings up an overlay of what a second screen would display, i.e. the map in Splatoon.

The idea is to eliminate redundancy in Nintendo's development efforts and fill gaps in their release schedule by making 100 percent of Nintendo's output next generation playable on both their console and portable. You buy one game, and it works on both systems, dialing the settings up or down like a PC game. Play on the console for higher resolution and framerate, improved AA and lighting, etc. Or play on the portable at lower settings prioritizing framerate.


The discussion:

Would this work? How practical would it be?

Again, I know it's not an original idea, but I just wanted to see the latest thoughts from everyone on the subject, in light of the recent cartridge rumor and the Emily Rogers rumor about reducing software redundancy.

Personally, I'd love the idea, if it's possible. Imagine how much better Nintendo's prospects would look this year if the WiiU and 3DS shared the same library. That one system would've already had Fire Emblem Fates, Pokken Tournament and Star Fox Zero, among others, with a slew of RPGs (including Pokemon Sun and Moon) on the horizon. It would also seem to address Japan's preference of portables and the West's predilection for consoles.

Anyways, just some thoughts. Share yours!

 

[Matbtz]

For me this is my what I want from the "hybrid" :

• Nintendo release the NX console in march for 299$ (350$ max) with a standard controller
• Nintendo release some months later the NX Handheld 150-200$ alongside a NX bundle Console + HH.
  
• The home console is much more powerful than the HH (slightly above PS4) and the HH would be a buffed vita (slightly less than Wii U if possible ?).
• The two consoles can use cartridges and have a shared library. The games will work as PC games or PS4/Neo, X1/scorpio, they will be downscaled on the HH ( inferior resolution, fps, AA effects etc).
• The HH would synchronise seamlessly with the console at home for save games and updates. And the HH could be use as a controller and a Wii U controller for BC.
• Somes games will still be designed for HH or NX + HH.
• All Nintendo games purchased will be on the Nintendo account even VC ones and could be played on both consoles (minus exceptions linked to controls)

Maybe two years after the release, when the install base is sufficient, Nintendo release the SCD to buff the NX instead of releasing a new console.

 

[Dark Cloud]

There's only one meaning to hybrid. A hybrid is a horrible idea for Nintendo.

 

[BumRush]

If done right, it's going to be an awesome system and really the only way forward for Nintendo.

 

[Asd202]

On surface it's cool but in reality it will hurt game design and create unnecessary limitations because everything will have to run on the handheld.

 

[Oppo]

it's the Futon idea of consoles.

a sorta crappy couch that turns into a sorta crappy bed.

it's a nice concept but realistically it's going to be constrained significantly if it tries to be both things.

also testing such software would be a huge pain ("high" mode or whatever)

 

[AmFreak]

????

In a hybrid platform the console and hanheld hardware would be similar. In the scenario we are discussing the 10% figure doesn't apply.

Read back my second post, i never assumed that both would be identical (and i didn't know you did) cause i don't see the logic in that.
If you use both the hh and console hardware if you play on the console, thus doubling the power of the hh you already need extra work to use that power.
So you need extra work no matter what, but if instead your console alone had double the power of the hh programming would be far simpler and the extra cost for doubling the console hardware would be chump change compared to the packed in hh.

But the proposal always have been about equal hardware across both platforms. Why introduce other variables?

It's not about power only, is about features, options and a different sales proposal than the competition.

I don't think the proposal is about 100% identical hardware.
The proposal is probably about one platform (same sdk, os, apis, ...)
Same hardware architecture would also of benefit e.g. arm + gcn, but probably needs extra investment.

In terms of paying extra as you propose about, maybe is it the inverse? Maybe with a 100 extra you are getting the home console and the handheld. Nintendo main chunk of their busyness is centered around portable consoles. They would be selling the Handheld as they always have, but now, they are making the home platform more attractive to those handheld users and adding extra functionality to the home console.

Isn't it the same then?
You suddenly have to shell out $300, instead of selling the hh for $180 and a more powerful stand alone console for $150.
The extra power through the hh just isn't worth it if you can get that power for like $10-30 on the console side.

 

[Refreshment.01]

On surface it's cool but in reality it will hurt game design and create unnecessary limitations because everything will have to run on the handheld.

Not necessarily, when the handheld is docked with the console it has a power increase. A developer that thinks that could benefit the experience could chose to design for the increased spec.

Read back my second post, i never assumed that both would be identical (and i didn't know you did) cause i don't see the logic in that.

Console HW = Handheld HW was in the very first post you replied to. Don't know how you skipped that XD

The logic is simple. Costs. Nintendo saves R&D and manufacturing costs. The user gets a cheaper Hybrid with all the benefits such setup allows.

However, potentially there's a chance that even with the exact same hardware in both, the stationary device would get some boost in clock frequency for the SOC . Memory maybe, but to talk about that one would need some solid figures.

If you use both the hh and console hardware if you play on the console, thus doubling the power of the hh you already need extra work to use that power.
So you need extra work no matter what, but if instead your console alone had double the power of the hh programming would be far simpler and the extra cost for doubling the console hardware would be chump change compared to the packed in hh.

True but then costs go up, which was one of your main concerns for an hybrid system.

Also in this context programing will be less dificult because every single console is the same closed hardware with closed specs, every hybrid is the same. There won't be a nightmare like programing for dozens of SLI or Crossfire configurations. Even there would be SDK tools to make the process more transparent for developers.

Isn't it the same then?
You suddenly have to shell out $300, instead of selling the hh for $180 and a more powerful stand alone console for $150.
The extra power through the hh just isn't worth it if you can get that power for like $10-30 on the console side.

They will be selling their handheld as always, alone. And the console would be an Hybrid.

This is the problem, without solid figures you can't make such claims. What is a 100% sure is that stripped down handheld hardware would be cheaper than selling a powerful console + handheld as the hybrid.

However, say if 10 - 30 bucks gave then the chance to make the stationary device 3 or 4 times more powerfull than the handheld. Then sell the hybrid for 300 like you suggest with the increased stationary device spec. When the handheld is ducked it could be used to enhance the processing even further. That's even better.

i just go with equal specs because it's the safest asumptiom for a cheaper hybrid console.

 

[sphinx]

The only area of disagreement I have is that Nintendo won't sell both units together. You'll need to purchase each device separately.

probably asked "ad nauseum" but again.

why would I buy two pieces of hardware if they share the same library?

convenience? I don't think so... not me at least,

 

[AmFreak]

Not necessarily, when the handheld is docked with the console it has a power increase. A developer that thinks that could benefit the experience could chose to design for the increased spec.

Console HW = Handheld HW was in the very first post you replied to. Don't know how you skipped that XD

I thought this

The Home Console is the same hardware as the handheld in bigger form factor.

meant something like same architecture but beefier.
Exactly same hardware on both would never have crossed my mind, cause no matter how high-end you go on the hh part, it would always be laughable low-end on the console part.
And that sounds like madness to me.

The logic is simple. Costs. Nintendo saves R&D and manufacturing costs. The user gets a cheaper Hybrid with all the benefits such setup allows.

R&D costs of what?
All the cpu,gpu technology they will use is already available.
You pack hh and console together increase the end price dramatically, complicate programming and all that for like $20 or maybe $30 the customer can potentially save by selling both together.

True but then costs go up, which was one of your main concerns for an hybrid system.

Yeah, but as i said endless times the cost increase is tiny compared to the hh.

Also in this context programing will be less dificult because every single console is the same closed hardware with closed specs, every hybrid is the same. There won't be a nightmare like programing for dozens of SLI or Crossfire configurations. Even there would be SDK tools to make the process more transparent for developers.

No a hh + console connected together would be far more complicated than a single console with the power of both. You must decide which part does which work you have two memory pools that partly hold the same information thus "wasting" memory, you have to divide work to both cpu's and make sure that both always have up-to-date information. You need a high-speed interconnect between both devices. ...
All things you don't have to care about if you only have a single console.

They will be selling their handheld as always, alone. And the console would be an Hybrid.

That's another point, selling the hh alone makes it even worse.
What do i do if i bought the hh and i now want the console?
Shelling out another $300 cause i want the $130 device of the bundle?
There is no way this wouldn't cause a huge shitstorm.

However, say if 10 - 30 bucks gave then the chance to make the stationary device 3 or 4 times more powerfull than the handheld. Then sell the hybrid for 300 like you suggest with the increased stationary device spec. When the handheld is ducked it could be used to enhance the processing even further. That's even better.

My argument was/is that it is not worth it. No matter what you do the price of a hybrid increases by $150-$200 (the hh part) and the benefit is either that the extra power increase is not worth it (5-20%) or that the console part is so low specced that a little extra amount of money invested would bring you to the not worth case.

 

[Refreshment.01]

You shouldn't be answering this way. You strip the post and just answer what you want to contradict. Anyway:

I thought this

meant something like same architecture but beefier.
Exactly same hardware on both would never have crossed my mind, cause no matter how high-end you go on the hh part, it would always be laughable low-end on the console part.
And that sounds like madness to me.

R&D costs of what?
All the cpu,gpu technology they will use is already available.
You pack hh and console together increase the end price dramatically, complicate programming and all that for like $20 or maybe $30 the customer can potentially save by selling both together.

Costs of developing a more powerful console? Remember you were talking about PS4 level stuff, soem R&D is warranted to reach there, specially if they don't go with X86. Now, gowing with similar architecture and different specs and yes the costs of R&D would be marginal. In that we fully agree.

But you forgot manufacturing costs. They increase since you are developing two different SOC. Fabing two different things is more costly. Ordering more of the same stuff nets them discounts due to volume.

Yeah, but as i said endless times the cost increase is tiny compared to the hh.

And i made it clear in the previous post (but sadly you omitted that part) that if a 10-30 extra in the stationary component of the hybrid nets then a 3 or 4 increase, then by all means, put beefier hardware in there.

i made it clear that the reason for going with the exact same hardware in both components of the hybrid, was that it was 100% surely the chepaest option. That's all.

No a hh + console connected together would be far more complicated than a single console with the power of both.

No one said the opposite. You are answering something you came up with.

You must decide which part does which work you have two memory pools that partly hold the same information thus "wasting" memory, you have to divide work to both cpu's and make sure that both always have up-to-date information. You need a high-speed interconnect between both devices. ...
All things you don't have to care about if you only have a single console.

The way you phrase this it makes it seem like developers are not used to that. The transition to multi core in the 7th gen was met with simialr comments, not to mention stuff like SLI and Crossfire that predate that by years. Yet here we are.

That's another point, selling the hh alone makes it even worse.
What do i do if i bought the hh and i now want the console?
Shelling out another $300 cause i want the $130 device of the bundle?
There is no way this wouldn't cause a huge shitstorm.

What did the person that bough a 3DS and upgrade to an XL did? Or to a New 3DS? Or from X1 to X Slim to Scorpio? Or from PS4 to a Neo?

My argument was/is that it is not worth it. No matter what you do the price of a hybrid increases by $150-$200 (the hh part) and the benefit is either that the extra power increase is not worth it (5-20%) or that the console part is so low specced that a little extra amount of money invested would bring you to the not worth case.

To repeat again, i did say that if your scenario of 10-30 extra $ gets then a lot more power then by all means go with higher spec for the stationary part of the hybrid.

Also the hybrid is not about processing power increase alone but what Nintendo could do with that setup. Don't know why you ignore that.

However, there's something cute you can do with the stationary and the mobile if they have the same hardware. Put some buttons in the base, let a smartphone slide in there and you can have an hybrid or 2 mobile parts. Since the power consumption of the stationary part is low, the smarphone battery is enough to power it.

Hell, you can spin off the "sliding an smarphone idea" into a cheaper portable or cheaper gamepads for their next console.

 

[Bluth54]

Personally I really like the idea of a hybrid system, I buy Nintendo consoles and handhelds to play Nintendo games and only having to buy one device instead of two is very appealing to me.

 

[LewieP]

A lot of people not knowing what the word "hybrid" means results in a lot of talking at cross purposes.

Hybrid means (at least) two in one. A hybrid home console/handheld is one device that functions as a home console and a handheld. Some people think that this is what NX will be. These people are crazy, and basic logic, knowledge of engineering of consumer electronics, understanding of the games industry and Nintendo make it extremely clear they would not do this. Especially given that we know NX will play Breath of the Wild. No small form factor handheld, without huge amounts of cooling and battery, and without astronomical cost, would be able to play BotW at 720p or higher. It's just not feasible. A hybrid device that functions as both would be at least terrible at one of the functions, probably both, with no meaningful advantage whatsoever.

What NX is far more likely to be (and this is entirely consistent with the few things Nintendo have said about NX) is a software platform which has (at least) two devices, a home console and a handheld. They will be sold separately (and possibly optionally bundled together) and share at least some of the software library. The home console at higher resolution with presumably other improvements to the graphics and image quality, and the handheld at a sub-720p resolution and in other ways scaled back to suit the hardware. This is a fairly logical inference based on what Nintendo have said, and it would be a smart way to address the software droughts that took the wind out of 3DS and especially Wii U early in their lifetimes (but obviously there were other problems there too). This is not a hybrid and calling it a hybrid can be confusing.

The exact specifics of how it might work are unknown, but I think most people who have been following it closely are of the option that this is the plan for NX. There may be other unique elements of the plan for the platform that are key to the strategy.


Edit: and in case it needs to be stated, Nintendo would have to be crazy to require you buy a home console in order to buy a hand held, and visa versa. There is a degree of overlap in the market for both kinds of devices, but there are huge markets of people who are only interested in one or the other.

 

[atr0cious]

"Let's get rid of a steady stream of money for customer convenience!"

You're fired.

Hybrid sounds great on paper but isn't worth it in the long run, due to price and risk.

 

[Refreshment.01]

A lot of people not knowing what the word "hybrid" means results in a lot of talking at cross purposes.

Hybrid means (at least) two in one. A hybrid home console/handheld is one device that functions as a home console and a handheld. Some people think that this is what NX will be. These people are crazy, and basic logic, knowledge of engineering of consumer electronics, understanding of the games industry and Nintendo make it extremely clear they would not do this. Especially given that we know NX will play Breath of the Wild. No small form factor handheld, without huge amounts of cooling and battery, and without astronomical cost, would be able to play BotW at 720p or higher. It's just not feasible. A hybrid device that functions as both would be at least terrible at one of the functions, probably both, with no meaningful advantage whatsoever.

What NX is far more likely to be (and this is entirely consistent with the few things Nintendo have said about NX) is a software platform which has (at least) two devices, a home console and a handheld. They will be sold separately (and possibly optionally bundled together) and share at least some of the software library. The home console at higher resolution with presumably other improvements to the graphics and image quality, and the handheld at a sub-720p resolution and in other ways scaled back to suit the hardware. This is a fairly logical inference based on what Nintendo have said, and it would be a smart way to address the software droughts that took the wind out of 3DS and especially Wii U early in their lifetimes (but obviously there were other problems there too). This is not a hybrid and calling it a hybrid can be confusing.

The exact specifics of how it might work are unknown, but I think most people who have been following it closely are of the option that this is the plan for NX. There may be other unique elements of the plan for the platform that are key to the strategy.


Edit: and in case it needs to be stated, Nintendo would have to be crazy to require you buy a home console in order to buy a hand held, and visa versa. There is a degree of overlap in the market for both kinds of devices, but there are huge markets of people who are only interested in one or the other.

"Let's get rid of a steady stream of money for customer convenience!"

You're fired.

Hybrid sounds great on paper but isn't worth it in the long run, due to price and risk.

Something that should be clear here.

i don't think the thread is about what NIntendo will do or what little sense a hybrid makes. Every single NX thread is about that.

The thread is about what an hypothetical hybrid system is and how it could work. This is relevant because the amount of people that don't understand what an hybrid system is and because in the other speculation threads someone at any given time ends up mentioning the "hybrid" word, and probably without any idea of what that entiles.

Just look at this very thread, the amount of people that define a shared library, os and architecture as an hybrid shines light on the problem. Even the topic creator has this missconception XD

 

[LewieP]

Something that should be clear here.

i don't think the thread is about what NIntendo will do or what little sense a hybrid makes. Every single NX thread is about that.

The thread is about what an hypothetical hybrid system is and how it could work. This is relevant because the amount of people that don't understand what an hybrid system is and because in the other speculation threads someone at any given time ends up mentioning the "hybrid" word, and probably without any idea of what that entiles.

Just look at this very thread, the amount of people that define a shared library, os and architecture as an hybrid shines light on the problem. Even the topic creator has this missconception XD

There is no hypothetical device that could be a hybrid and be capable of doing what Nintendo have said NX will do.

What people want is a magic box that is roughly the size/weight of a 3DS, and can play great Nintendo and other games on the go independent of anything else.

Then when they are at home they want to be able to use this box (either wirelessly, wired, or with some kind of dock) to play great Nintendo games on their TV, in full HD, with comparable performance to other consoles (or at least superior to the Wii U).

Presumably they also want this magical box to come in at a price the market will accept, have good battery life, not have lots of moving parts that are noisy, not give out too much heat, and have plenty of storage for downloaded games.

People who are saying they want this are not basing their desires on thinking that this magic box could actually be made, they just have this usage scenario in their head and want it.

Another similar desire that people have are some kind of scenario similar to above but to function as a handheld requiring streaming. This is similarly crazy. Nintendo don't even have any optional streaming services right now. They are obviously not going to *require* some kind of streaming service for their new platform to function. Even if all customers wanted it (they very much don't) they have lots of customers in areas without good enough infrastructure, and I don't think Nintendo have much expertise in this area. Sony and Microsoft have invested billions into that kind of stuff and still have no real workable offering for most people. There's no proven market for it.

 

[Refreshment.01]

There is no hypothetical device that could be a hybrid and be capable of doing what Nintendo have said NX will do.

Again, what NIntendo said is not what im arguing here.

The point is to shed light at what an hybrid is and how it can work. i' ll repeat this as many time as possible because it's no sticking XD

NOt directed to you, but in general.

What people want is a magic box that is roughly the size/weight of a 3DS, and can play great Nintendo and other games on the go independent of anything else.

Then when they are at home they want to be able to use this box (either wirelessly, wired, or with some kind of dock) to play great Nintendo games on their TV, in full HD, with comparable performance to other consoles (or at least superior to the Wii U).

Presumably they also want this magical box to come in at a price the market will accept, have good battery life, not have lots of moving parts that are noisy, not give out too much heat, and have plenty of storage for downloaded games.

People who are saying they want this are not basing their desires on thinking that this magic box could actually be made, they just have this usage scenario in their head and want it.

Another similar desire that people have are some kind of scenario similar to above but to function as a handheld requiring streaming. This is similarly crazy. Nintendo don't even have any optional streaming services right now. They are obviously not going to *require* some kind of streaming service for their new platform to function. Even if all customers wanted it (they very much don't) they have lots of customers in areas without good enough infrastructure, and I don't think Nintendo have much expertise in this area. Sony and Microsoft have invested billions into that kind of stuff and still have no real workable offering for most people. There's no proven market for it.

In full agrement.

First thing i said with the Hypothecial Hybrid is that Nintendo is completely out of Western AAA third party support. And would go with a very humble set of specs, in exchange for some "debatable" neat features the Hybrid would allow.

Nintendo could support the system themsleves, the games the company develops are relatevily less dependant of hardware processing capacity than the competitors. Their most ambitious game ever is Breath of the Wild afterall, something that could run in 7th generation hardware.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I'd much prefer the handheld and console to just have the same OS and play the same games.

like smash wiiU and smash 3ds.

Buying the handheld just allows the NX console games to become portable with reduced graphics.


Hybrid OS that plays scalable games > hybrid console.

Nintendo needs to do this before someone else does.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

I'd much prefer the handheld and console to just have the same OS and play the same games.

like smash wiiU and smash 3ds.

Buying the handheld just allows the NX console games to become portable with reduced graphics.

I mean - I think that's the majority deduction we've all come to. This whole portable with an HDMI nonsense or transforming dock is just crazy business.

 

[LewieP]

I mean - I think that's the majority deduction we've all come to. This whole portable with an HDMI nonsense or transforming dock is just crazy business.

I think you'd be surprised at how prevalent the idea of one piece of hardware that functions as both is.

 

[Spiritwalker]

It seems likely that we're getting a handheld and a console that play the same games. This is probably my favourite scenario, but I'd be up for a hybrid as well.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I mean - I think that's the majority deduction we've all come to. This whole portable with an HDMI nonsense or transforming dock is just crazy business.

Have you seen any of the NX discussions?

Either it's the magical box Lewie very well described above or a unified OS, similar architecture and shared library gets confused with an Hybrid console.

Btw, are people calling a Handheld with a TV out a Hybrid? That proofs my point further then XD

 

[GamingOblivion]

People saying that it would double the library (3DS and Wii U combined) are completely wrong. It would be like having a birthday really close to Christmas: you think tell all your friends that you're still getting the same amount of Christmas, but you know in your heart that you're only getting enough for one.

Spoiler

Thanks Kyle Bosman for that analogy

 

[Boney]

I mean - I think that's the majority deduction we've all come to. This whole portable with an HDMI nonsense or transforming dock is just crazy business.

Nintendo sure loves having prone to breaking equipment by jamming them together and making voodoo magic so the insides synchronize and power up exponentially like MS magic cloud computing. Not to mention the packaging, message and distribution mess it would be.

Oh wait, no that doesn't really happen. You're right.

People saying that it would double the library (3DS and Wii U combined) are completely wrong. It would be like having a birthday really close to Christmas: you think tell all your friends that you're still getting the same amount of Christmas, but you know in your heart that you're only getting enough for one.

Spoiler

Thanks Kyle Bosman for that analogy

My bday is two weeks after Xmas, and I used to ask for combined gifts for my folks ✌️
Standard series like Mario Kart should be easier to be of higher quality by spending more time on them because the development cycles won't be as back to back as they are now and it frees them for other things later. And since the games can be expanded through DLC you can do seasons every few years and have new retail packages for cheaper development and better consumer end products.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Nintendo sure loves having prone to breaking equipment by jamming them together and making voodoo magic so the insides synchronize and power up exponentially like MS magic cloud computing. Not to mention the packaging, message and distribution mess it would be.

Oh wait, no that doesn't really happen. You're right.

Except it does happen. Nintendo makes lots of modular devices:

Consoles: The NES, SNES, N64, GC.

Interfaces or controllers: The Wii Remote is a good example.

The Gamepad is a piece of equipment that has a higher risk of braking than a normal controller yet they made a device centered around it. So is the DS with it's hinches and dual screens.

Also two "asyncronus" hardware devices working together is not "vodoo" magic, it is an increasing trend in computing. And it could be fruitful for Nintendo to research this posibility. i think there's even a patent filled by them, that described a similar scenario.

 

[Snakeyes]

probably asked "ad nauseum" but again.

why would I buy two pieces of hardware if they share the same library?

convenience? I don't think so... not me at least,

It doesn't matter. I mean, would Nintendo prefer you to buy both? Absolutely, since that's more money in their pocket. But what's probably more important to them is to get you in their ecosystem. Whether you buy the handheld or console, Nintendo now has a place to sell you their software.

 

[Thraktor]

Let's actually think through the hybrid concept for a few moments. You're basically talking about Nintendo selling a single box with two units inside:

1. A handheld, which for reasons of cost, thermal and battery life concerns, will have a fairly low-performing SoC.
2. A home unit or dock, which, due to much higher thermal and power consumption limits, would have an SoC which outperforms the handheld by potentially an order of magnitude.

Let's say they're selling the "hybrid" system for $300.

Now my question is, for what possible reason would Nintendo do this rather than just selling a handheld for $100 and a home console for $200?

Compared to selling two separate devices, Nintendo would be:

• Massively increasing the price of entry into their ecosystem.
• Making the system and its marketing far more confusing for customers.
• Forcing people who only want a handheld to pay for a home console and vice versa.

There's no benefit here for Nintendo. There's certainly a very strong argument to be made that Nintendo's next home console and handheld should share the same library as far as possible, but there's no reason to jump from that to saying they have to sell both of them in a single box.

 

[Asd202]

Not necessarily, when the handheld is docked with the console it has a power increase. A developer that thinks that could benefit the experience could chose to design for the increased spec.

This doesn't solve the problem at all because the game would have to be the same on the handheld alone. The game design would be restricted to the handheld specs and control.

 

[udivision]

Let's actually think through the hybrid concept for a few moments. .

An important part of the Hybrid Theory is to not actually think it through.

 

[Refreshment.01]

This doesn't solve the problem at all because the game would have to be the same on the handheld alone. The game design would be restricted to the handheld specs and control.

No.

We are talking about the Hybrid here, which always have the 2 pieces. If the handheld alone is not enough, the Hybrid offers increased processing.

In todays market, there's nothing preventing a developer to create a New 3DS only game. Like there's nothing preventing a developer to create a Hybrid only game. The Hybrid can play and enhance all handheld games.

Let's actually think through the hybrid concept for a few moments. You're basically talking about Nintendo selling a single box with two units inside:

1. A handheld, which for reasons of cost, thermal and battery life concerns, will have a fairly low-performing SoC.
2. A home unit or dock, which, due to much higher thermal and power consumption limits, would have an SoC which outperforms the handheld by potentially an order of magnitude.

Let's say they're selling the "hybrid" system for $300.

Now my question is, for what possible reason would Nintendo do this rather than just selling a handheld for $100 and a home console for $200?

Compared to selling two separate devices, Nintendo would be:

• Massively increasing the price of entry into their ecosystem.
• Making the system and its marketing far more confusing for customers.
• Forcing people who only want a handheld to pay for a home console and vice versa.

There's no benefit here for Nintendo. here's certainly a very strong argument to be made that Nintendo's next home console and handheld should share the same library as far as possible, but there's no reason to jump from that to saying they have to sell both of them in a single box.

Remember im playing devil's advocate here for debate purposes:

In the case you propose the price of entry into their ecosystem would be a 100 dollars. Since NIntendo still sells the handheld as always.

Why not just have a stand alone console that accepts the same media as the handheld console and can add anti aliasing, better resolution and frame rate?
It would probably be counter productive cost wise to have the Lego systems.

i have answer this previously. This topic is about an Hybrid system, what you propose there is not one. i just limit my self to try to make sense of how this could work.

i made a simple list of features in other posts about what it could offer. They consolidate both audiences into the handheld one, which is their stronger side. Create a device with a distinctive quality. And add functionalities of both type of systems, while limiting the stationary part in some aspects, mainly hardware processing.

- Play infront of TV, the games use both the Handheld and Stationary hardware capabilities. Better looking handheld games.
- Take the handheld and play anywhere.
- The stationary is still at home so someone else can play that.
- The Handheld can act as a Gamepad, so they can still have the advantages of dual screen gaming.
- Every user in Nintendo's ecosystem has a device with an integrated screen.

Edit: Remember, their console busyness is irrelevant. They would be taying that with their most succesful part

 

[Boney]

No.

We are talking about the Hybrid here, which always have the 2 pieces. If the handheld alone is not enough, the Hybrid offers increased processing.

In todays market, there's nothing preventing a developer to create a New 3DS only game. Like there's nothing preventing a developer to create a Hybrid only game. The Hybrid can play and enhance all handheld games.

Why not just have a stand alone console that accepts the same media as the handheld console and can add anti aliasing, better resolution and frame rate?
It would probably be counter productive cost wise to have the Lego systems.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

why would I buy two pieces of hardware if they share the same library?

Why would someone buy an iPad if they already have an iPhone? Or an Apple TV?

You buy the hardware that fits your needs. For some people, that's only one piece of hardware. For others, it's multiple pieces. As long as you're buying into Nintendo's NX ecosystem, they're happy.

Edit - Basically what Snakeyes already said above.

 

[Weltall Zero]

All of that sounds good, except this:

And when you're on the go, playing only on the portable, the HUD could have a tab in the corner of the touchscreen that brings up an overlay of what a second screen would display, i.e. the map in Splatoon.

For me it makes far more sense for the console to have dual screens like the DS and 3DS. When in console mode, the TV displays what you would see on the top screen (which isn't a touchscreen anyway), the bottom screen remains the same in both modes (touchscreen on both). As a bonus, this way you can get perfect 3DS BC.

In my experience portables need a flip lid to protect the screen and stick/buttons on the go anyway (my Vita case is a hard plastic one with precisely such a lid), which is also why the SP is my favorite iteration of the GBA, so using that lid for a second screen has always been a very smart move on the part of Nintendo IMHO.

probably asked "ad nauseum" but again.

why would I buy two pieces of hardware if they share the same library?

convenience? I don't think so... not me at least,

Why do consoles and portables exist in the first place? If one was always more convenient than the other, nobody would make the other. If you're in a position where one is always preferable to the other, more power to you, but surely even so you must see that it's not the case for everyone if both still exist.

In fact this arrangement is extremely convenient for you. You get to buy the style you prefer and get the library of both. At the same time Nintendo gets a hardware sale and more game sales. Win/win.

 

[Shauni]

I don't really see a hybrid as very practical. Not to mention, it drives up the cost, which is something Nintendo will want to avoid.

If you want my guess, I don't think the NX will be it's own platform at all. I personally think it's nothing more than a pawn in a much more ambitious project. A software Operating System developed by Nintendo, that can be run on Home boxes, pocket devices, tablets, and even Smart TVs in the future. Think of it as Nintendo's answer to Windows 10. "Dedicated games device" I think is just a big fancy term for an entertainment device with games as the selling point.

The problem with this is that Nintendo makes a bulk of its revenue on hardware related sales. This would potentially cut out a huge chunk of that. Unless we're talking about some kind of service here that they will sell separately, they are going to focus on some type of hardware(s).

 

[Jubenhimer]

The problem with this is that Nintendo makes a bulk of its revenue on hardware related sales. This would potentially cut out a huge chunk of that. Unless we're talking about some kind of service here that they will sell separately, they are going to focus on some type of hardware(s).

Well this OS would run ONLY on Nintendo made hardware. So if they want to still profit off hardware, they can do that.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Well this OS would run ONLY on Nintendo made hardware. So if they want to still profit off hardware, they can do that.

i don't really think Nintendo entering the OS is market is a fitting idea for them.

 

[Jubenhimer]

i don't really think Nintendo entering the OS is market is a fitting idea for them.

They talked about expanding into other markets before, so it would make sense. They're trying to be more than a video game company right now. And like I said, it'll work just like iOS. A closed ecosystem that runs ONLY on Nintendo hardware.

 

[Alienous]

I could see all NX Portable software running on the NX console, and not vice-versa - New 3DS style.

Nintendo would probably develop from the Portable base, so that the libraries are shared, and third-parties could just target the consoles (for things like Just Dance, for instance).

 

[Refreshment.01]

They talked about expanding into other markets before, so it would make sense. They're trying to be more than a video game company right now. And like I said, it'll work just like iOS. A closed ecosystem that runs ONLY on Nintendo hardware.

But don't you think there's too much competition for that?

i mean offering an OS, iOS been your example, would mean they' ll need to offer a variety of features and services in a similar fashion.

i do see them branching leveraging the strenght of their IPs but with things like the announced animation, movie deals. And theme park attractions using their ideas and intellectual property. And continue with their mobile experiments, a good idea would be to move their Touch Generation series into smart devices.

 

[jax]

I think it's a boring idea, and one with very little mass market appeal. Few people care about the potential to do this on Vita, and controllers with screens are clearly not a winning idea.

Because the Vita remote play is terrible. If the games were processing in the portable itself and then streamed to the set top box, instead of vice versa, it would be a game changer. Console grade games on portable you can play anywhere, not laggy remote play only when there's decent wifi nonsense.