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It's been discussed before, but the idea of NX as a hybrid is pretty cool

Neiteio

Member
Apologies in advance if this has already been de-confirmed somewhere. But assuming it's still possible, the idea of NX being a two-in-one console/portable hybrid sounds pretty cool. I just wanted to mull over the idea a bit more.

Again, I don't know if it's plausible. I'm no expert on tech, so don't take this as the musings of some obnoxious know-it-all. It's just for fun, inspired by cryptic Kimishima comments on NX that suggest it's neither a straight WiiU successor nor 3DS successor, as well as the Emily Rogers rumor on eliminating software redundancy, and the talk of cartridges.


The concept:

Imagine if they found a cost-effective way to give us one SKU that includes both a console component and portable component, right out of the box. Say each component lacks a costly/failure-prone optical disk drive, and instead uses a propriety high-capacity cartridge format for retail games. Let's say you can still install the games to an HDD or SSD, as well.

In this scenario, you could buy Zelda NX on a cartridge and it'd work with both the console and portable that came in the same box. You could plug it into the console and it'd output at "high" settings on your TV — let's say specs comparable to PS4. You could also plug it into the portable and it'd output at "low" settings — let's say comparable to WiiU.

You could save your progress to the card, so continuing where you left off would be as simple as popping it out of one and into the other. You could also still save to the system itself, or maybe the cloud if they introduce that service with MyNintendo.

At home, the portable could double as the GamePad for the console, allowing you to play games that take advantage of both screens. And when you're on the go, playing only on the portable, the HUD could have a tab in the corner of the touchscreen that brings up an overlay of what a second screen would display, i.e. the map in Splatoon.

The idea is to eliminate redundancy in Nintendo's development efforts and fill gaps in their release schedule by making 100 percent of Nintendo's output next generation playable on both their console and portable. You buy one game, and it works on both systems, dialing the settings up or down like a PC game. Play on the console for higher resolution and framerate, improved AA and lighting, etc. Or play on the portable at lower settings prioritizing framerate.


The discussion:

Would this work? How practical would it be?

Again, I know it's not an original idea, but I just wanted to see the latest thoughts from everyone on the subject, in light of the recent cartridge rumor and the Emily Rogers rumor about reducing software redundancy.

Personally, I'd love the idea, if it's possible. Imagine how much better Nintendo's prospects would look this year if the WiiU and 3DS shared the same library. That one system would've already had Fire Emblem Fates, Pokken Tournament and Star Fox Zero, among others, with a slew of RPGs (including Pokemon Sun and Moon) on the horizon. It would also seem to address Japan's preference of portables and the West's predilection for consoles.

Anyways, just some thoughts. Share yours!
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
There's 4 or 5 of us that have been on the hybrid bandwagon since day one. Hell, I talked about before the NX was even announced. It's the only way forward for Nintendo that makes sense.

Allows developers to concentrate on one platform, but still have the flexibility to develop either a portable focused title, TV focused title or both! It also opens the door to what we've all always wanted. A true 3D open world-ish Pokemon game.
 
The biggest plus is easily the software library that'll result from this. Having one system that has a software library that's like the 3DS and the WiiU combined, that'd make for a system I'd wanna own.
 

sinxtanx

Member
All the disadvantages of handhelds and consoles without any of the benefits, all in one very expensive package. What's not to love?
 

Neiteio

Member
All the disadvantages of handhelds and consoles without any of the benefits, all in one very expensive package. What's not to love?
I don't doubt there may be disadvantages, but what comes to mind, exactly?

Also, regarding cost, the WiiU already has a format similar to what I'm describing. The GamePad would need extra guts to function as a true portable, but perhaps that cost could be negated by what Nintendo would save by leaving out an optical disk drive?
 
Does anyone know the Nintendo developed wii u title with the largest file size?

I want to say it's Xenoblade X, which pretty much filled up an entire Blu-ray and then had optional texture packs (which were actually pre-included in the download version). Otherwise they were pretty efficient with their filesizes.

Imagine most of the 3DS and Wii U libraries combined.

As they are it'd be pretty amazing, but imagining them with fewer "redundant titles" (e.g. MK7 / MK8, NSMB2 / NSMBU, Yoshi's New Island / Woolly World) and more original titles would be a dream come true.
 

dity

Member
No don't do it OP, it's gonna be 30 pages of people telling you you're wrong while quoting something Miyamoto said over a year ago. You'll never survive!
 
To me, to be successful, the library has to be shared. However they choose to execute that whether it's a hybrid system or not I don't really mind. But they cannot support 2 separate libraries and expect success.
 

Neiteio

Member
Ideally, the shared library would still have one Mario Kart, one Smash, etc, and they'd continue to support those titles like platforms via DLC, while freeing up the bulk of those teams to deliver new IPs or new installments in neglected IPs.

For example, instead of making a Mario Kart 9 and a Mario Kart 10, just make a Mario Kart 9 that continues to receive DLC, and free up the bulk of the team to make a new F-Zero. Or a new IP. Anything different that would diversify the system's software portfolio.
 
It's cool in the totally unrealistic sci-fi sense. In practical terms, it's a waste of resources except for the niche market. At minimum, it will cost a couple hundred dollars over any similar strength competitor and will not be as strong as the strongest competitor.

Some of those benefits like similar libraries can be solved much more efficiently with just streaming or having the same type of architecture across multiple form factors.
 

Ansatz

Member
The biggest plus is easily the software library that'll result from this. Having one system that has a software library that's like the 3DS and the WiiU combined, that'd make for a system I'd wanna own.

You can achieve this without the idea of a hybrid system.

The hybrid concept has flaws:

- Increases the cost of the hardware purchase, which raiser the barrier of entry
- Much harder to pull off handheld revisions if it also comes packaged with the console
- Loose the potential for double dippers
 
I hate the thought of more wii u like games. Can only hope that won't happen but I'm sure they have something like that happening.

I think this idea was a bit similar with Vita but obviously has a lot of big differences.

The only thing I really want is the ability to play all games on one box, even if those games on the console can't play in the portable. As long as the portable games work on the console I'd be thrilled.
 
I really like the idea. I would also make the screen detachable from the game pad so that it can be attached to other devices like a VR headmount a la GearVR. You could then play VR games with the rest of your controller.


That also has the added advantage that, if the screen or the controller breaks, you only need to replace one of the two.

This could make the NX such a versatile system for developers to make and port over any game they want to it (big franchises, mobile games or VR experiences)
 

pooh

Member
You can achieve this without the idea of a hybrid system.

The hybrid concept has flaws:

- Increases the cost of the hardware purchase, which raiser the barrier of entry
- Much harder to pull off handheld revisions if it also comes packaged with the console
- Loose the potential for double dippers

I agree with you, and I don't think OP was describing a hybrid console in that sense, but rather a single operating system that can run the same games on multiple devices, like iOS or Android. In this scenario, portable and home consoles would be separate, but could use most of the same cartridges, and you could even add more form factors, such as a cheaper budget console (NX Mini?), and maybe even other platforms like mobile and PC.
 

jdstorm

Banned
I don't doubt there may be disadvantages, but what comes to mind, exactly?

Also, regarding cost, the WiiU already has a format similar to what I'm describing. The GamePad would need extra guts to function as a true portable, but perhaps that cost could be negated by what Nintendo would save by leaving out an optical disk drive?

The cost savings would be Nintendo selling them as two seperate devices. Most games wouldn't have 2nd screen functionality. As that would require you to buy 2 devices ( probably costing around $600) at the required power levels. However a portable SKU at 250 and a home console SKU at 399 would more then adaquetly get the products out to consumers at a competitive and affordable price point. Most would buy the portable. But a purchase of any device would add to the active user base so that would be fine.

The main difference in power would be used for resolution the handheld could output at 720 ( which is fine for a tiny screen) and the Console would output at 1080p
 

sinxtanx

Member
Please explain. What disadvantages would come from what OP described?

the main disadvantage is that Neiteio's scenario forces consumers to buy both
the majority of video game consumers want to buy one or the other
the form factor they don't want will be a cancer on their willingness to make a purchase

at least he didn't suggest a dock


there's nothing wrong with this scenario as long as the form factors are kept clearly separate in which case the term to use is Device Family
 

L Thammy

Member
Ctrl+F "Neoxon"

You're losing your touch.


Anyway, personally, the main thing that interests me is the possibility that I can get the same games I'd get on console, but on a handheld in some form. The problem I have is that I don't do a ton of gaming when I'm at home (except for the occasional "being productive isn't working out, I'm just going to play Civilization instead" day) so I've got a whole bunch of games lying around that I want to play, but can't take with me.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
Your idea would mean that NX costs $500-600 dollars. It doesn't work if the console and handheld can't be sold separately, especially since third-parties won't support it due to basically having to make two games. All current PC games on lowest settings blow Wii U away graphically, so it's not quite as simple as PC. The idea only works for games where the portable is the base.

There are only two scenarios which actually work:
  1. Handheld and console are separate and independent, with the handheld games playable on the console (and possibly special game cards for console exclusives that can hold two chips), or
  2. The "console" is a PSTV-type device that can play the handheld games in 720p or 1080p with no other upgrades

Any other idea is either extremely flawed, implausible, or results in wasted resources.
 

Muzy72

Banned
I don't think it'll be a hybrid, but I do think a shared library will happen. Kinda like the relationship between an iPhone and an iPad. It'll be one NintendOS that runs on a multitude of Nintendo devices, all tied together with the Nintendo Account.
 

-Horizon-

Member
Would they be willing to put all their eggs in one basket like that?
I know I know, nintendo home console and even handheld sales sans the Wii and DS have been on a decline.
 
Been saying this for years. Although it looks now to be more in line with two separate platforms (handheld and console) that play the same games. That's good too.

I'm fine with lower tech as long as Nintendo can consolidate their development efforts to a single platform. This will result in much greater creativity as their teams are no longer shackled to bi-annual franchises, and they can finally support their platform with consistent software releases.
 

Neiteio

Member
the main disadvantage is that Neiteio's scenario forces consumers to buy both
the majority of video game consumers want to buy one or the other
the form factor they don't want will be a cancer on their willingness to make a purchase

at least he didn't suggest a dock


there's nothing wrong with this scenario as long as the form factors are kept clearly separate in which case the term to use is Device Family
I think I see what you're saying.

So you feel it'd be preferable/more practical if they launched a standalone console, and a standalone portable, and you could buy whichever (or both) based on your lifestyle (i.e. "I prefer to play on the go" vs. "I prefer to play at home") and based on the fidelity you want (i.e. "I'm OK with low settings" vs. "I prefer high settings")? And in either case you can play the same games thanks to an interchangeable format?

I could see that working. A device family, like you said.
 

pooh

Member
the main disadvantage is that Neiteio's scenario forces consumers to buy both
the majority of video game consumers want to buy one or the other
the form factor they don't want will be a cancer on their willingness to make a purchase

at least he didn't suggest a dock


there's nothing wrong with this scenario as long as the form factors are kept clearly separate in which case the term to use is Device Family

Maybe I misunderstood, but it seemed to me like OP was describing 2 separate consoles with a shared library and OS, as you suggest. Given that consumers in Japan abhor home consoles and love portables, and that western gamers seem to prefer the opposite, I highly doubt Nintendo would force consumers to buy both. However, I could totally see them packaging both together only as a special set just for hardcore Nintendo fans.
 
I don't like the idea of a hybrid console, but I do like the idea of the handheld and console sharing a library. I think it's better for them to be separate from each other so people can choose to buy one or the other, although I wouldn't be opposed to a bundle of both whenever the handheld comes out.
 

Neiteio

Member
Maybe I misunderstood, but it seemed to me like OP was describing 2 separate consoles with a shared library and OS, as you suggest. Given that consumers in Japan abhor home consoles and love portables, and that western gamers seem to prefer the opposite, I highly doubt Nintendo would force consumers to buy both. However, I could totally see them packaging both together only as a special set just for hardcore Nintendo fans.
I was suggesting two separate components that are sold together, and where the portable can also function as the GamePad for the console. So yeah, what I was describing might be prohibitively expensive, although I wonder if the savings from removing the optical disk drive could help mitigate the extra expense of adding guts to the GamePad to make it work as a standalone portable.

The idea was to have one SKU they would market and try to sell in stores. You buy that one SKU, and you have access to both the console and portable experience. The games would work on both.
 

Joei

Member
I don't think it'll be a hybrid, but I do think a shared library will happen. Kinda like the relationship between an iPhone and an iPad. It'll be one NintendOS that runs on a multitude of Nintendo devices, all tied together with the Nintendo Account.

I really, really like this idea.
 

Neiteio

Member
Regarding a shared library on a shared OS — a NintendOS — would it really be that difficult for devs to include high and low settings that activate based on whether it's a console or portable, respectively?

Like you take the cartridge for Zelda NX and plug it into the console, it senses it's on a console and it defaults to a higher resolution, improved lighting and effects, etc. And when you plug that same cartridge into a portable, it senses this and defaults to a lower resolution, etc.

Would that be possible? Sort of like how PC games are scalable and can detect system settings to tailor their output accordingly?
 

HooYaH

Member
Didn't someone say its tech is faster than PS4? Not sure how that would work for a handheld controller and a console hub since that would double the cost to manufacture for a low and high-end mode.
 

sinxtanx

Member
I think I see what you're saying.

So you feel it'd be preferable/more practical if they launched a standalone console, and a standalone portable, and you could buy whichever (or both) based on your lifestyle (i.e. "I prefer to play on the go" vs. "I prefer to play at home") and based on the fidelity you want (i.e. "I'm OK with low settings" vs. "I prefer high settings")? And in either case you can play the same games thanks to an interchangeable format?

I could see that working. A device family, like you said.

yup, that's what I feel would work best
it's a tried and true approach to unified hardware architecture
 

Ala Alba

Member
Regarding a shared library on a shared OS — a NintendOS — would it really be that difficult for devs to include high and low settings that activate based on whether it's a console or portable, respectively?

Like you take the cartridge for Zelda NX and plug it into the console, it senses it's on a console and it defaults to a higher resolution, improved lighting and effects, etc. And when you plug that same cartridge into a portable, it senses this and defaults to a lower resolution, etc.

Would that be possible? Sort of like how PC games are scalable and can detect system settings to tailor their output accordingly?

That's already happening with the PS4 Neo, no?
 

L Thammy

Member
I also really hope that the shared library means crossbuy. In an ideal world, I should be able to play Ninja Gaiden (NES) on every device I own.
 

Taker666

Member
A hybrid (an all-in-one system) is a terrible idea. Too expensive for the handheld market (unless it's incredibly weak). Too weak for the home console market (unless it's incredibly expensive).


A cross platform OS where games can be scaled across multiple devices is what's needed (and is what Nintendo appears to be doing).
 

notaskwid

Member
Regarding a shared library on a shared OS — a NintendOS — would it really be that difficult for devs to include high and low settings that activate based on whether it's a console or portable, respectively?

Like you take the cartridge for Zelda NX and plug it into the console, it senses it's on a console and it defaults to a higher resolution, improved lighting and effects, etc. And when you plug that same cartridge into a portable, it senses this and defaults to a lower resolution, etc.

Would that be possible? Sort of like how PC games are scalable and can detect system settings to tailor their output accordingly?
Theoreticaly it's possible, but to have a handheld capable of running NX's games in 'low fidelity' would either mean the portable is too expensive or the Nx is weaker than the WiiU. Edit: unless there are a lot of changes like SSB4. And the portable is very low res (pls no). Honestly sounds like a lot of work to get a bigger game running on a (cheap) portable machine. If the system works like that, and you have to get your games running on both form formats, many 3rd parties will bail (as if they won't anyway lol)
 

tr1p1ex

Member
They won't put 2 devices in 1 box. There is no reason to do that. It's unnecessarily expensive when the customer might only want one of the two.

I don't think they are going to do or can do a true hybrid either because I don't think they can yet put a Wii U in a handheld form factor and still keep the price down and size down and battery life up. The NX is going to run ZElda so a true hybrid would have to as powerful as the Wii U I would think.

They definitely are going to have a lot more software that either runs on both handheld and console though because they combined their handheld and console departments.

I think Smash Bros was the first real indication of the direction the department consolidation is taking them.
 

Wildean

Member
I think it's a boring idea, and one with very little mass market appeal. Few people care about the potential to do this on Vita, and controllers with screens are clearly not a winning idea.
 

pooh

Member
I don't like the idea of a hybrid console, but I do like the idea of the handheld and console sharing a library. I think it's better for them to be separate from each other so people can choose to buy one or the other, although I wouldn't be opposed to a bundle of both whenever the handheld comes out.

I agree with this, but I also think streaming (like how it is described by the SCD patent) would be a useful feature for games that are too intensive to run on a portable device alone. I could see 3 main form factors:

1) A powerful home gaming server (likely x86) that can stream to multiple TVs (via HDMI dongles) or game pads locally, or stream to portable units over the internet, while improving latency through handling some of the computational load.

2) A portable unit that can run many games on it's own, or run higher fidelity versions and/or server exclusive games via streaming. Could also serve as a controller/extra screen when playing locally on the server. Could also possibly act as a home console by being able to stream to an HDMI dongle locally, similar to something like Airplay.

3) A cheap home console that basically has the same guts and native game compatibility as the portable, and would also be able to play higher intensity games via streaming from the server, as the portable does. It could be played with any standard NX controller. Would likely be positioned as a cheap media/gaming box for people who just want to use it for things like Netflix and Wii Sports. This could also work as the cheap console made for emerging markets that Nintendo talked about in 2014.

Beyond those, I think there also could be the potential for PC and/or mobile to be used as additional form factors, perhaps via streaming from the server. Hell, maybe you could even install NX on a Wii U and play those games that way.
 
the main disadvantage is that Neiteio's scenario forces consumers to buy both
the majority of video game consumers want to buy one or the other
the form factor they don't want will be a cancer on their willingness to make a purchase

at least he didn't suggest a dock

there's nothing wrong with this scenario as long as the form factors are kept clearly separate in which case the term to use is Device Family
Well he is talking about a Hybrid console. Docking it in some way makes sense since it's more elegant and integrated than, for example, having the handheld dangling from a cable to the console.

Wireless multiprocessing acroos two devices for gaming intensive tasks that are too latency dependant, even locally, are a no go it seems at this time (maybe?).
 

Pokemaniac

Member
While it's not unreasonable to expect a bundle that has both form factors, having that as the only option is going to unreasonably drive up the cost. They need to be available separately for this to work.

Also, what you're discussing is not really a "hybrid". More a "shared platform" or "family of devices".
 

yllekz

Banned
It's honestly the only logical option for Nintendo. They've always succeeded with handhelds and failed with consoles since about 1996 (Wii is an outlier).

Why not just combine the two, save costs on development by combining the teams? Not to mention it's consumer-friendly by making it both a handheld and console. It's a value add across the board.

They could look at what Chromecast does and build off that.
 
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