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It's been discussed before, but the idea of NX as a hybrid is pretty cool
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
capylikesgames
Banned
I've wanted this too, but I feel the NX handheld and console should be sold seperately. If they were to sell them together, maybe do it seperately as a bundle with a discount? But I feel only selling both as one package would mean they'd have to sacrifice something on the spec side for a reasonable price; I find it hard to see two capable pieces of hardware sold together for 300$ or less.
Plus that way, if someone's only interested in playing on the go? Buy the handheld. If they know they're going to spend most of their time using it on a TV? Go for the console. And although I feel console/handheld interactivity should be available, it shouldn't be a focus. Have a regular, affordable controller for the console, and don't make dual screen features mandatory, only optional.
Plus that way, if someone's only interested in playing on the go? Buy the handheld. If they know they're going to spend most of their time using it on a TV? Go for the console. And although I feel console/handheld interactivity should be available, it shouldn't be a focus. Have a regular, affordable controller for the console, and don't make dual screen features mandatory, only optional.
Okami Haundo
Member
Hold the bandwagon so I can get on! I've been down with that idea since the initial rumors popped up years ago. A hybrid console would make a ton of sense to me and it would definitely differentiate Nintendo in the market. I'm not sure why some people want Nintendo's version of an Xbox One or PS4, there isn't room on the market for another console like that.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
It's completely implausible right now.
Everyone want Nintendo to release hardware more powerful than the Wii U, but I don't see how you could even manage something as powerful as the Wii U and cram it into a handheld, much less something more powerful.
Also, I really enjoy having separate entries for games. Having Mario Kart 7 and Mario Kart 8 in one generation was awesome. If I was only able to play Mario Kart 8 it would be less awesome. Same goes for Super Mario 3D Land and Super Mario 3D World. I wouldn't want one without the other.
Everyone want Nintendo to release hardware more powerful than the Wii U, but I don't see how you could even manage something as powerful as the Wii U and cram it into a handheld, much less something more powerful.
Also, I really enjoy having separate entries for games. Having Mario Kart 7 and Mario Kart 8 in one generation was awesome. If I was only able to play Mario Kart 8 it would be less awesome. Same goes for Super Mario 3D Land and Super Mario 3D World. I wouldn't want one without the other.
*Nintendo's fall media summit opens with video of Reggie and Kimishima*
*Kimi feels Reggie around his belly*
KIMI: "You're feeling a bit soft, Reggie-san. Have you considered salad?"
REGGIE: "No thanks, Mr. Kimishima. Salad is boring."
KIMI: "Oh, really? Well not anymore!"
*the NX appears in a burst of hellfire the world's first half-console/half-salad*
REGGIE: "WOW!"
*Reggie begins eating the NX, blood streaming down his chin from the circuitry*
Refreshment.01
Member
Well the topic creator was indeed of the mark on what one could exactly call an Hybrid. He basically said the console and handheld should be bundled together. However, the thread was created to talk about the hypothesis of a Hybrid system.
How about this:
- Nintendo designs the Handheld system as usual. And is sold as usual.
- The console has the same hardware as the handheld, with possibly better clocks due to cooling and been connected to an power outlet.
- Since the hardware is the same, the handheld and console can interact with each other to increase processing.
- The console is sold with the handheld included.
With the handheld sold separetly as always the risk of an hybrid is reduced by half, while at the same time Nintendo retains an unique sales proposal for the console. The Wii U had an unique sales proposal and failed, yet it didn't have a shared library between handheld and console as an hybrid could have in theory.
There are a set number of unique things that could be done with a setup like this. Nintendo distancing themsleves from what MS and Sony offers can be worthwhile. So a low powered console could make sense.
outunderthestars
Banned
I will accept it not being a hybrid as long as every game works on both pieces of hardware and features cross save/cross buy.
Okami Haundo
Member
I was of the mind that Iherre's comment was more in relation to speculation about raw power. It could go either way, but I just can't personally believe Nintendo would go with another traditional console.
TimeEffect
Member
Would games still be made natively for the handheld?
Anyways, I am totally on board with a cartridge based hybrid too. If the handheld comes with the NX, it would be one hell of an investment to own 2 devices that covers a variety of needs + has access to Nintendo exclusives.
Anyways, I am totally on board with a cartridge based hybrid too. If the handheld comes with the NX, it would be one hell of an investment to own 2 devices that covers a variety of needs + has access to Nintendo exclusives.
CharminUltra
Member
Who know what the NX will be, but the idea of combined libraries really gets me hype.
socksfelloff
Member
If the NX provides what the vita was advertised as I'll be soooo happy
Mithos
Member
This NX is not for me, I haven't touched a portable since DS and even then it was "dead" 6 months after I got one, haven't played it since.
JinjoUnchained
Member
It all comes down to convenience and cost. Wii was so popular because they delivered the new tech at a cost-effective price and it was easy for anyone to pick up and play.
I could see consumers getting behind a hybrid console if it were similarly cost-effective and convenient. It's a commercially appealing concept in theory.
I could see consumers getting behind a hybrid console if it were similarly cost-effective and convenient. It's a commercially appealing concept in theory.
Pokemaniac
Member
The "console is a docking station" type setup you describe is one of those things that sounds relatively easy to do, but is difficult in practice thanks to the need to adapt to differing power levels on the fly, and the general challenge of getting a decent connection going between the two devices.
It's not impossible, it's just really difficult.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
What's best for business and innovation aside, I would be perfectly happy with a Nintendo system identical to the PS4 Neo...or really even the PS4.
Hey kids, ever wanted to get to the next level, but Mom says you have to eat your peas?
Get the Nintendo NX!
Sweep Ganon away in your gastointestinal juices!
Beat Bowser with your bowel movements!
Nintendo. Gaming is inside you.
(Games and systems sold separately. Talk to your parents before going online. Water and fertilize regularly until harvest season.)
Refreshment.01
Member
Some risks, some gains...
Nintendo creates the Handheld which becomes the base hardware.
The handheld is sold separetely as always.
The Home Console is the same hardware as the handheld in bigger form factor.
The Home console is sold with the handheld.
Home console and Handheld interact with each other to increase processing.
Benefits of the hypothetical hybrid:
1) Handheld games work in the Home console. So the catalogue is boosted exponentially, a traditional weakness of Nintendo home systems.
2) Also both Handheld and console can play Mobile games.
3) User can play their games anywhere.
4) User away from home can play games in handheld. Other members in Home can still play games on the home console.
5) Family sharing. Buy one game. Data can be stored in the home console to play without the card while the Handheld is away.
6) The handheld games look and play better when both pieces of hardware are connected together.
7) Wii U second screen gaming benefits.
8) The hardware is low spected and relatively cheap.
Nintendo could go by with it's unified console development 9thus increased software output), their handheld publishing partners and Western support for games "that make sense" in a Nintendo plaform. The AAA western stuff is left mostly to PC, Sony and MS.
Ha, this is now my most wanted thing. I hope there's a caesar salad variety!
CharminUltra
Member
Today, we're introducing three revolutionary products.
The first one is a widescreen Game Boy with touch controls.
The second is a revolutionary home console.
And the third is a breakthrough mobile game emulation device.
So, three things: a widescreen Game Boy with touch controls, a revolutionary home console, and a breakthrough mobile emulation device.
A Game Boy, a console, and a mobile emulator. A Game Boy, a console...are you getting it?
These are NOT three separate devices. This is one device. And we are calling it iTendo. Today, Nintendo is going to reinvent consoles.
The first one is a widescreen Game Boy with touch controls.
The second is a revolutionary home console.
And the third is a breakthrough mobile game emulation device.
So, three things: a widescreen Game Boy with touch controls, a revolutionary home console, and a breakthrough mobile emulation device.
A Game Boy, a console, and a mobile emulator. A Game Boy, a console...are you getting it?
These are NOT three separate devices. This is one device. And we are calling it iTendo. Today, Nintendo is going to reinvent consoles.
iTendo Garden. See, it all comes together.
(But what would the mobile emulation device be? A phone that emulates games? We already have that. A handheld that exists only for Virtual Console? A device that emulates mobile phones so that real games don't have to soil their hands with a smartphone in order to play smartphone games?)
cireza
Member
From my point of view, and without thinking even 1 second at the feasibility of the thing, Nintendo should try to offer two consoles : a home console and a handheld console.
Both would play the exact same games. Because people buy consoles to play Nintendo games. Give them the choice of how they want to play, and don't divide your library anymore.
This is what I believe Nintendo will announce.
Both would play the exact same games. Because people buy consoles to play Nintendo games. Give them the choice of how they want to play, and don't divide your library anymore.
This is what I believe Nintendo will announce.
The gpu part in the console can easily be 5-10x as strong as the hh part.
So for a 10-20% increase in power you make programming much more painful and you have to add some high bandwidth connection for the handheld.
Increasing the gpu power of the console 10-20% on the other side would be chump change in comparison to the cost of including a hh.
It looks a little better for the cpu part, but focus has been long on gpu and it doesn't make much sense there either.
1-5: You can do all that without selling console+hh together.
6: See above
7: Could also be done without selling console+hh together. Though ofc you couldn't expect everyone to have both then, but the WiiU should have proven that this isn't a big catch.
8: It is low specced and expensive at the same time cause of the included hh
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
As an adult who doesn't have a lot of time to dedicate in front of a TV anymore, I want the hybrid rumors to be true so bad. I desperately want a dedicated video game console that I can use wherever I am and phones just suck so bad for most forms of gaming.
I really have no clue what the NX is, but I don't just think that is it. That's not really a "new way to play" as promised.
It's just not daring enough for Nintendo at this stage. They wouldn't play it that safe in my humble opinion.
I have the feeling that we are all misinterpreting quotes about the NX by thinking about hardware too traditionally.
If Nintendo does have a traditional console (I.e. anything resembling something they've already done before) I think they're going to have a tough time going forward. Combining two form factors into one semi-portable/semi-console piece of hardware will not change Nintendo's trajectory (even if I'd still love it).
They actually need to do something on the hardware level that actually allows us to play new types of games.
The Wii U failed because it did not really do this.
It's just not daring enough for Nintendo at this stage. They wouldn't play it that safe in my humble opinion.
I have the feeling that we are all misinterpreting quotes about the NX by thinking about hardware too traditionally.
If Nintendo does have a traditional console (I.e. anything resembling something they've already done before) I think they're going to have a tough time going forward. Combining two form factors into one semi-portable/semi-console piece of hardware will not change Nintendo's trajectory (even if I'd still love it).
They actually need to do something on the hardware level that actually allows us to play new types of games.
The Wii U failed because it did not really do this.
Graphics Horse
Member
I am all for hybrids but the forced bundle idea sounds like one of the more expensive options.
I'm not convinced Nintendo will go for a home based system at all this time around, besides an optional unit that could receive wireless video and maybe serve as a hdd storage fridge to cut down on redownloading things.
A bundle I envisage is a handheld that splits into a controller half and screen half, but even then they could be sold separately, as casting to TV or tablets/phones should be an option.
On its own the screen could support a curated Amazon-like appstore system with apps from Nintendo and others.
I'm not convinced Nintendo will go for a home based system at all this time around, besides an optional unit that could receive wireless video and maybe serve as a hdd storage fridge to cut down on redownloading things.
A bundle I envisage is a handheld that splits into a controller half and screen half, but even then they could be sold separately, as casting to TV or tablets/phones should be an option.
On its own the screen could support a curated Amazon-like appstore system with apps from Nintendo and others.
Conrad Link
Member
I think a hybrid would be cool! So cool in fact, that I'm starting to think they wont do it.
Nintendo almost never do what I think they should!
At this point I'm just tired of even speculating, long past the patient 'please let us know some info' time frame.
Nintendo almost never do what I think they should!
At this point I'm just tired of even speculating, long past the patient 'please let us know some info' time frame.
Refreshment.01
Member
Where ix the 10%/20% figure coming from?
Also do take into consideration that i did said the Home console can be clock higher for example due to the more laxed thermals and power outlet connection.
No you can't do 1-6 as you suggest.
You are proposing for them to go with a much higher spected console thus more expensive. So to do the things in the list the user will need to own a more expensive console plus the handheld.
With the way as described. Nintendo get's the "safety net" of their handheld busyness since that device can be purchased separatly. However, forcing the user to buy the handheld and console makes the home console more atractive. So the user get's a more powerful piece of kit with all the benefits of a handheld.
Also, please don't ignore the following point: This thread is not about what Nintendo will do. We have officiall statements that point out that they wont pursuit an hybrid.
The thread is about how an Hybrid could work. Having a console and handheld as we have traditionally seen, even within a more integrated ecosystem (OS and Architecture) would not costitute a hybrid platform.
I never got "hybrid" from what Iwata was saying. To me it always sounded like this:
The NX would have some type of base software that would be runnable on the NX Console, NX Handheld and NX app on cell phones. Smaller games like virtual console titles would basically run on all platforms under the NX branch. So if you bought Super Mario Bros., in theory it would work on your console, handheld and cell phone app since it all runs on the same architecture.
So to me it seemed like consolidating the console and handheld branches makes it more efficient for Nintendo's in house developers to develop games quicker since their hardware would essentially be running on the same type of architecture, but not the same power. Kind of like UWP or Google Play store. They all run under the same ecosystem but certain games would only work on certain platforms while games that could run on both would have sort of a cross play thing going on.
This would keep games like Pokemon & Fire Emblem to keep on being made on the cheap side since they wouldn't have to worry about developing for higher res console thus spending more time and resources since they could just stay under the NX handheld platform and games that could truly run on higher spec and lower spec hardware without losing quality like 2D Mario, Yoshi, and Kirby could get simultaneous releases on both handheld and console.
Edit: I say this simply because throwing a game intended for console on a handheld is just not wise. Long cutscenes, online heavy games, text size and UI design, battery life, high graphical fidelity all kill the reasons to have a hybrid in the first place. The 3DS is running off of what, a 240p screen? If the console is is anywhere near a Xbox One or PS4 level of power then at the very minimum a 720p screen would be needed so things could be visual and sharp which would bring up the price of a handheld unit exponentially.
The NX would have some type of base software that would be runnable on the NX Console, NX Handheld and NX app on cell phones. Smaller games like virtual console titles would basically run on all platforms under the NX branch. So if you bought Super Mario Bros., in theory it would work on your console, handheld and cell phone app since it all runs on the same architecture.
So to me it seemed like consolidating the console and handheld branches makes it more efficient for Nintendo's in house developers to develop games quicker since their hardware would essentially be running on the same type of architecture, but not the same power. Kind of like UWP or Google Play store. They all run under the same ecosystem but certain games would only work on certain platforms while games that could run on both would have sort of a cross play thing going on.
This would keep games like Pokemon & Fire Emblem to keep on being made on the cheap side since they wouldn't have to worry about developing for higher res console thus spending more time and resources since they could just stay under the NX handheld platform and games that could truly run on higher spec and lower spec hardware without losing quality like 2D Mario, Yoshi, and Kirby could get simultaneous releases on both handheld and console.
Edit: I say this simply because throwing a game intended for console on a handheld is just not wise. Long cutscenes, online heavy games, text size and UI design, battery life, high graphical fidelity all kill the reasons to have a hybrid in the first place. The 3DS is running off of what, a 240p screen? If the console is is anywhere near a Xbox One or PS4 level of power then at the very minimum a 720p screen would be needed so things could be visual and sharp which would bring up the price of a handheld unit exponentially.
I have always seen it as a Handheld and a Console, stand alone by themselves, but similar enough that they can run the same games, be it digital or cartridges. I don't want them to use disks, because cartridges are just so much convenient, at least to me.
The game will detect what NX you are using and run its settings accordingly, more beefy on the console, of course.
And if you have both, the handheld can be connected to the console so the games can run faster, because why not?
Maybe even form a giant robot, while they are at it.
The game will detect what NX you are using and run its settings accordingly, more beefy on the console, of course.
And if you have both, the handheld can be connected to the console so the games can run faster, because why not?
Maybe even form a giant robot, while they are at it.
Console gpu 5-10x stronger = 10-20% power increase through the hh gpu.
Top of the line Smartphone SoCs have something like 200-300 gflops.
But Nintendo was never even close to using state of the art Hardware in a hh (powerwise).
And even with a 300gflops part, the ps4 is already 6x and the neo 13x.
I am proposing nothing, i'm saying adding the power of the hh to the console doesn't make much sense.
As i said the extra power you need to be equal with the hh in comparison is chump change.
E.g. 200gflops more for a hh gpu is a problem, but for a desktop gpu it's "nothing".
How does it make the console more attractive when you instead of $250 have to shell out $400?
Just makes no sense to me.
Reminds me of the gamepad, only even more expensive.
When I think about the Hybrid model I think about 3 SKUs
1) Main SKU: Includes both the portable and the home station
2) Portable SKU
3) Home Station SKU
Basically 1) is 2) + 3), so once you have the portable you can upgrade for cheap to the Home console, this fits very nice with the whole SCD patent, the home station "powers-up" the portable so it can play at TVs higher resolutions.
Going further down the rabbit hole and the whole Nvidia portable SoC speculation I think my idea also fits quite well when looking at the next Tegra chip in the PX2, some things caught my eye while looking at the slide featured in this PX2 article:
* Looking at PX2 Tegras there are some interesting things:
- 6 cores: 4xA57 2xDenver || It's not Ps4-One 8 cores, but doesn't seem bad.
- 8GB LPDDR4 || Memory size in line with Ps4-One, but slower.
- Integrated Pascal || This should be even stronger than X1, so it should pack a nice portable graphical punch.
- SoC is connected to an external 4GB GDRR5 Discrete Pascal
So the whole idea to fit this into the Hybrid NX:
- Portable NX would feature an underclocked PX2 SoC to allow decent battery life.
- Home Station would feature the discrete GPU with 4GB GDDR5
- When docked the SoC wouldn't have TDP restrictions and would be able to be clocked much higher, and would have the additional support of the integrated GPU in the home station to allow for TV resolutions/extra effects (SCD yadda yadda)
The nice thing about this is that Home Station would only need to feature the discrete GPU, power supply, a controller and maybe extra storage. Card reader and SoC would already be included in the portable.
There are some obvious flaws:
- No matter how much faster you clock the Arm cores, can they reach acceptable performance vs. Ps4-One? Maybe it could be customized to feature 8xArm57 instead?
- Thermals: Overclocking the SoC would make it quite hotter, seems like a problem, but PX2 should be 16 nm FinFet, so that would help.
- The SoC itself seems likely too cutting edge to be featured in a Nintendo Handheld, and wouldn't come cheap I guess.
- If you dock the portable, loses the potential to be an extra controller.
I don't expect NX to be anything like this, but it made for some entertaining rambling since that SoC fits kind of nicely with the whole Hybrid theory, lol.
1) Main SKU: Includes both the portable and the home station
2) Portable SKU
3) Home Station SKU
Basically 1) is 2) + 3), so once you have the portable you can upgrade for cheap to the Home console, this fits very nice with the whole SCD patent, the home station "powers-up" the portable so it can play at TVs higher resolutions.
Going further down the rabbit hole and the whole Nvidia portable SoC speculation I think my idea also fits quite well when looking at the next Tegra chip in the PX2, some things caught my eye while looking at the slide featured in this PX2 article:
* Looking at PX2 Tegras there are some interesting things:
- 6 cores: 4xA57 2xDenver || It's not Ps4-One 8 cores, but doesn't seem bad.
- 8GB LPDDR4 || Memory size in line with Ps4-One, but slower.
- Integrated Pascal || This should be even stronger than X1, so it should pack a nice portable graphical punch.
- SoC is connected to an external 4GB GDRR5 Discrete Pascal
So the whole idea to fit this into the Hybrid NX:
- Portable NX would feature an underclocked PX2 SoC to allow decent battery life.
- Home Station would feature the discrete GPU with 4GB GDDR5
- When docked the SoC wouldn't have TDP restrictions and would be able to be clocked much higher, and would have the additional support of the integrated GPU in the home station to allow for TV resolutions/extra effects (SCD yadda yadda)
The nice thing about this is that Home Station would only need to feature the discrete GPU, power supply, a controller and maybe extra storage. Card reader and SoC would already be included in the portable.
There are some obvious flaws:
- No matter how much faster you clock the Arm cores, can they reach acceptable performance vs. Ps4-One? Maybe it could be customized to feature 8xArm57 instead?
- Thermals: Overclocking the SoC would make it quite hotter, seems like a problem, but PX2 should be 16 nm FinFet, so that would help.
- The SoC itself seems likely too cutting edge to be featured in a Nintendo Handheld, and wouldn't come cheap I guess.
- If you dock the portable, loses the potential to be an extra controller.
I don't expect NX to be anything like this, but it made for some entertaining rambling since that SoC fits kind of nicely with the whole Hybrid theory, lol.
Refreshment.01
Member
The wording and the metric used for the 10% figure was so strange, that it sounded like you were suggesting that when both handheld and console are working together the hybrid throughput would only go 10% above what the handheld could do alone. Thankfully that's not the case since it would be factually wrong.
Yes, the SOC for Smartphones are around that processing metric. But since we mention top of the line SOC's, the Tegra X1 released in 2015 deserves mention. It is between 512 and 1024 gflops. Not suggesting that's in Nintendo's range. But maybe they could have something with Nvidia that delivers similar ball park when both handheld and console work together at a reasonable price for them.
Basically they manufacture the same hardware for both form factors. It would make sense in the amount of features the user will get with the way the 2 pieces of the hybrid interact with each other and it allows for higher fidelity visuals than the handheld would be capable by itself.
More over, why are we comparing it to the PS4? Why their system specs should compete with Sony or MS?
With the more homogeneous development environment, Nintendo will be able to support the NX by themselves. i don't think chasing the AAA games (Western ones specially) would be a sound strategy for them. What they should do is consolidate their handheld and home offerings, while been atractive and bringing their 3rd party handheld publishing partners. Continue their collaborative efforts with other 3rd party developers in genres where their internally developed games are weak and garner games from them that make sense within their user base.
As far as i remember Nintendo makes handhelds in the 150 - 200 price range, save for the first few months of 3DS life.
The Home part of the hybrid would be basically the same hardware with features taken away from the handheld. So packing the 2 together wouldn't cost 400 dollars as you are suggesting.
It's gonna be 2 SKU's, some share library.
How in the hell would connecting the consoles megasaur style would allow it to add up the consoles powah output.
Don't worry you'll get a more powerful handheld sky a few years down the line and a more powerful console as well.
The only thing that we've yet to know is how are they launching nx first. Console only, handheld only or both SKU's. My money is on console only with the handheld being showed but coming a year later.
The other question is how far will they go in terms of controls. N3ds has all except the clickable sticks, so who knows.
How in the hell would connecting the consoles megasaur style would allow it to add up the consoles powah output.
Don't worry you'll get a more powerful handheld sky a few years down the line and a more powerful console as well.
The only thing that we've yet to know is how are they launching nx first. Console only, handheld only or both SKU's. My money is on console only with the handheld being showed but coming a year later.
The other question is how far will they go in terms of controls. N3ds has all except the clickable sticks, so who knows.
I'm thinking in line with this. And there will be expanded functionality between the two.
……forgetit
Member
You know, when this was first thought of I was against it, bit with the direction tech is headed and the new tech that exists a system like this could be possible and on par with current gen consoles. That said I doubt we'll get it for Nintendo
Still look at this
And imagine the console applications.
Still look at this
And imagine the console applications.
All this hating on the Wii U and the GAmepad and the dismal sales and the still at $300 pricepoint and Nintendo is going to release an untethered GamePad for a reasonable price as their next platform? All this despite Kimishima saying it's a new way to play games. Yeah right. It doesn't make a ton of sense.
Nintendo's portables still do well, particularly in Japan I believe.
Nintendo doesn't have to worry about how hard it is to port third-party games. They need to make hardware that's appealing, and software that sells the hardware. Publishers will support it if there are enough potential software buyers on the platform.
Don't really see the purpose of having a third SKU. Just have the handheld priced ~$200 and the console ~$300, and if you happen to own both devices you can sync them and share libraries, use second screen features, and so on. Core users still get the 'premium' experience, everyone else gets what they want.