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Large Youtubers Hide Ownership of CSGO Lottery Site

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throwing the baby out with the bathwater with that strawman.

Strawman? There are people in this thread saying that Valve shouldn't have ever introduced Steam trading and the Steam market, even those are things that give great value to users.

I can get complaining that Valve should have done WAY more to combat those gambling situations, and that they were way too complacent with things.
But there's nothing inherently wrong with the concept of steam trading and steam market.
 
Strawman? There are people in this thread saying that Valve shouldn't have ever introduced Steam trading and the Steam market, even those are things that give great value to users.

I can get complaining that Valve should have done WAY more to combat those gambling situations, and that they were way too complacent with things.
But there's nothing inherently wrong with the concept of steam trading and steam market.

I mean

There's something inherently wrong with the concept of steam trading and the steam market if it allows for gambling like this.

Maybe Valves concept should've had some inhibitors placed to deal with that sort of thing. Like a closed API.
 

Apathy

Member
I get it now. I thought people were trying to say they deserved jail for not disclosing their relationship with the site.

Why are people just singling out these two guys though, there are dozens of CSGO betting sites out there that don't have age gates.

There's a reason why if you work for say the lottery division you can't participate or be eligible to win the lottery. Because no matter what, if you won there is always the speculation of manipulation and trust with anyone not involved with the lottery is broken. For ask we know he could have manipulated results to get his reaction videos which is highly highly illegal
 
Not really. They had the economy develop before hiring him. The reason they hired him is in part due to the problems that came with having tradable virtual items and people themselves assigning value towards different things, starting off with the TF2 Apple Ear Buds iirc.

You can actually read exactly what and why it happened directly from the horse's mouth on Valve's old blog - http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/economics/it-all-began-with-a-strange-email/

I believe the developers of Eve were the first to take the approach of hiring an economist to work through the issues such a system brings

Read the post.

Still, Imo, it could've affected the priority of how to provide, and implement, an internal virtual profitable economy into their established titles, rather than actual software/video game developement.
 

Amagon

Member
I haven't follow CS since they started implementing skins but this is highly entertaining of a train wreck that I'm watching right now.
 
I mean

There's something inherently wrong with the concept of steam trading and the steam market if it allows for gambling like this.

Maybe Valves concept should've had some inhibitors placed to deal with that sort of thing. Like a closed API.

The API allows for gambling sites to have an easier time doing their business, agreed. But they use that only(if I remember correctly) to look at users' inventories. Steam trading and the Steam market still have nothing inherently wrong with them. Even if they completely closed their API, those sites would exist, they would just have to do more manual things.
So by closing their API Valve would be screwing over people and services that have nothing to do with gambling, just to give a headache to gambling sites. It's the same problem with DRM that companies and users had to deal for years, while pirates were barely affected.

As I said I DO agree that Valve should do something. Like going after the sites themselves, but not do something silly like closing their API.
 
Really?

Some people are going a bit OTT over something so silly. ProSyndicate even said he contacted Youtube who said what he put/did in the video was fine.


I guess Youtube will just weight on the matter if the content violates a any of their guidlines, rather than telling you, "hey, this video could cause you legal problems, let's close it!".

It's not for youtube to dictate the possible legal predicatments you can get into by thr shit you upload, unless it clashes with thier own guidelines.

What the guy did has actual serious legal repercussions if authorities decides to poke into the matter. I recommend you to look into it, to see how serious this is.
 

_Legacy_

Member
This is shady af, they should both be arrested. One thing to mention the site on a video and show support (which is bad enough) but to have reaction videos to your own gambling site is awful. I hope legal action is taken against these two deceivers.
 

atomsk

Party Pooper
FTC is coming to getcha

acqUOGD.png
 

joshcryer

it's ok, you're all right now
JoshOG who is one of the other owners on the charter says he's not really an owner, it's just sponsorship hahaha

https://www.twitch.tv/joshog/v/76066220?t=6h32m38s

This guy is fucked too.

Shady as FUCK. I need to stop ranting about this, because it's like, the biggest gaming controversy I've ever seen.These guys, they are all fucked if the FTC wants to put some kids* in jail.

(* I'm an old fuck, so calling these guys kids is just my thing)

Imma just stfu and see what happens. I'll say, lastly, I hope they get what's coming to them. Doubt it, but it'd be sweet. Ugliness all around. Can't believe I originally ignored the h3h3productions vid. Those guys are good people.
 

pompidu

Member
I remember when Cs 1.6 skins we're free.

Watching my hobby slowly be picked apart by microtransactions is really sad.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Thats some good detective work, and the way that they're trying to hide their tracks shows that they know they're doing something shady. Curious to see what happends further on.
 
There's some guy named Long Sensation on twitter saying that it's just jealous smaller YouTube channels that are trying to take down a more successful one. Are these people blind? Or just stupid?
 
No, they're deleted after a few hours or inactivity for an hour or so.

The archiving happens on external sites. 4chan doesn't archive threads itself.

I'm not going to link to the site, but I do believe most boards, if not all, have their own archive section.

Unless these archives belong to an external server.
 

Audioboxer

Member
why are people even attempting to defend them?

Shared interests, friends, idols, shady themselves or because it's the internet and for the sake of arguing and getting the spotlight people will defend anything.

Basically take your pick from a ton of reasons as to why. As said on GAF there is usually a defence force for anything if the individuals involved can get some attention. Or maybe followers themselves as the defenders of these two shady fucks will flock to others defending them.

Money, popularity and attention are irresistible to many humans. No matter the cost.
 

Daffy Duck

Member
Wow, I know Tmartn is a millionaire so this wont impact him in anyway other than possibly going to ground for a while, depending on how big this gets, but damn it's pretty huge.

that statement from Envy is obviously putting distance between them and Tmartn.

I subscribe to Tmartn, but I can clearly this was scummy to say the very least.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Read the post.

Still, Imo, it could've effected the priority of how to provide, and implement, an internal virtual profitable economy into their established titles, rather than actual software/video game developement.

I think it certainly did both although without doubt it was so before hand, but that is beside the point in terms of this particular gambling issue. Gambling is possible because of the Steam APIs being open enough to allow anything if an external party is so inclined. Even though all it does is allow viewing of a player's inventory, people can then decide to trade with the external site after the warnings that "you are leaving Steam", "valve is not affiliated" etc etc. The other issue is simply that virtual items have value that are a translation of real money. The external site has decided to use the Steam Marketplace value, as it's own valuation as a gambling chip - essential using the skins as currency - which should be illegal, but since virtual items are not exchanging currency legally within their site, they think they can get away with it.

There are several things I think should happen.

While I'd rather not see gambling at all, I'd want to at least see legal gambling to the laws of a particular country and a governing body overseeing it. I'd also want to see Valve's virtual economy scrutinised. There is no legal limit to virtual sales / buying in that economy other than the ability to get Steam wallet funds. Lots of games use the roulette mechanic for microtransactions of items in a game with random chance at better things, but Valve are the only ones (that I know of) that make those tradable and sellable within Steam. That may well need an age limit and a governing body that isn't Valve and applies to similar virtual economies, to which Valve and anyone else can be held to account since I'm fairly sure Valve will not be the last to allow such trading and sales
 
This is seriously gross. I do like that Ethan ties it back to Esports a bit too at the end and says how it cheapens Esports, and this is something I've been saying for a while for why there will be road blocks for Esports really taking off as broad mainstream entertainment. Like Jai Alai and other new sports that get big, quick investment but lack legitimate regulating bodies, there isn't a great mechanism for preventing sketchy people from taking advantage of others.

I honestly think these guys should be cooked in court. They can try to go back and retroactively edit videos, change descriptions, alter their social media persona, but all that does is incriminate them further if charges are brought up against them.

This isn't just lies and deception, it's legitimate fraud.

There's some guy named Long Sensation on twitter saying that it's just jealous smaller YouTube channels that are trying to take down a more successful one. Are these people blind? Or just stupid?

A mixture of both. There is so much ignorance in new media or the presumption that new media is immune from regulations and best-practices of traditional media, and because inexperienced business people are making money in new media, they've convinced themselves that they're immune to the regulations of traditional media.
 

PtM

Banned
Anything happen in the last few hours. Did tmartn DMCA h3h3 already?
Would be nice to have a timeline in the OP.
 
Anything happen in the last few hours. Did tmartn DMCA h3h3 already?
Would be nice to have a timeline in the OP.

I'm on mobile but if someone can compile a simple timeline of events I can add it to the OP when I can (or a mod can edit it if they feel that it is appropriate).
 

Harlock

Member
This is in part Valve fault because your hands out approaching. They like to put automatic systems but don't think too much about what the humans on the other side would do without overseeing.
 
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