PrivateWHudson
Member
Are there recent reports of that in Dallas?
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Dallas Police Chief: "Were Asking Cops To Do Too Much In This Country"
- Thread starter SteveO409
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Are there recent reports of that in Dallas?
He says that cops are expected to solve those problems. He acts like that is why he is exhausted. Cops do not teach, they do not heal. They arrest criminals and administer fines. But not everyone within those failed sectors of society become criminals. They're not expected to help those non-criminals.
CrocMother
Banned
I just don't get how you can't see that getting better human beings in uniform isn't part of this solution. Like if we replaced the entire police force of a town with activists and allies, do you think they would just be brainwashed and suddenly start shooting black people without remorse?
Quality of character plays a large role in this. It's not completely systemic.
mrhyderager
Member
So just to clarify, when a person passes out in a pool of vomit from OD-ing - you don't call the police? When kids at school are jumping each other into gangs and getting each other addicted to drugs - no one expects the police to get involved? When a man climbs over the edge of a bridge to commit suicide - you wouldn't be calling the police to resolve the problem? Not to mention every fight, stabbing, shooting, vandalism, theft... the list goes on and on. That one job requires one hell of a lot of attention.
I'm not a police apologist and I don't think there's any excuse for the killings of presumably innocent people. I do, however, think we've got an issue in this country of under appreciating what it takes to be a police officer, teacher, doctor, etc.
https://twitter.com/dallaspd/status/751222360867418112
"full support" is debatable, but they essentially encouraged people to come out with that tweet. Day and night difference between how DPD handled the Dallas protest and how Baton Rouge PD handled theirs. No riot gear, no intimidation, etc.
I agree with him. Cops don't have the capacity to offer justice without error. This is why we need to start using robotic police that will be programmed not to kill but to take everyone alive at all costs. No one cares if a robot gets shot in the face, more will come. See the movie Chappie. If we can fast track robotic police then that's the way to go. We have self driving cars, now build police bots.
This is one of the biggest issues with all of it. No good intentions or actual reform until the wall falls. 90% of the cops I see or know drive around off duty with that stupid thin blue line flying somewhere.
I don't care what anybody says as far as I am concerned it's gang colors and I don't trust any cop that fly it.
Part of any reform going forward is not just actually independently indicting, prosecuting and convicting offenders, but also punishment whether legal or just loss of any law enforcement job for any "good" cop who can be proven to have reasonably known something and said nothing. Do those two things you might see the silence stop and abuses slow down.
As I always say I find it funny when cops berate community's for not snitching when they have the biggest tightest no snitching policy around.
shadowsdarknes
Member
He makes interesting points.
Police are being tasked to solve some of the toughest issues facing America today.
And in the case of drug addiction, they are being tasked to make arrests rather than finding victims the treatment and social work needed.
Police are being tasked to solve some of the toughest issues facing America today.
And in the case of drug addiction, they are being tasked to make arrests rather than finding victims the treatment and social work needed.
He's fixing his department's culture and his apples, he can't do shit about other departments, police can't do anything about judges and juries letting bad cops off the hook, police can't change the laws or inherent bias in the system.
He can only fire the bias apples in his rotten barrel and replace it with new ones who hopefully won't get sucked into that toxic culture until the barrel is addressed.
He's not entirely wrong.
I've been more impressed with his actions during this time than anyone else's.
Failures in education and mental health end up on the police's plate more than anyone else's. Harris County PD runs the largest psychiatric ward in Texas and treats more patients than I think the 10 biggest public hospitals in the state do.
People with no interest in education don't get paying jobs and resort to crime as a backstop. There's no magic fix to this issue.
I've been more impressed with his actions during this time than anyone else's.
Failures in education and mental health end up on the police's plate more than anyone else's. Harris County PD runs the largest psychiatric ward in Texas and treats more patients than I think the 10 biggest public hospitals in the state do.
People with no interest in education don't get paying jobs and resort to crime as a backstop. There's no magic fix to this issue.
About that Blue Wall...
Still progress to be made, but he's not ignoring it or pretending it's not an issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ing-those-things-could-now-be-more-difficult/
DontBeThatGuy
Member
He doesn't seem too terrible here, but there's a few things, like telling protesters to become cops and acting like that would do jack shit as quickly as it needs to get done. Look, most police departments don't have a police chief like him(regardless of skin color), and aren't trying to reform their bullshit or truly work on these complex issues, and being a cog in the machine with good intentions isn't suddenly gonna fix what might just be a toxic culture that's been in place a long, long time.
It's good he's not entirely uncritical of his profession or that he's in denial that there's a lot of work to be done(and agree on open carry, cause fuck that shit), but it's not left at that, and the way he messages a couple of his points wouldn't look that different coming from a Fox News pundit. I believe he's definitely better than all that, mind you, but he's toeing the line a bit.
It's good he's not entirely uncritical of his profession or that he's in denial that there's a lot of work to be done(and agree on open carry, cause fuck that shit), but it's not left at that, and the way he messages a couple of his points wouldn't look that different coming from a Fox News pundit. I believe he's definitely better than all that, mind you, but he's toeing the line a bit.
excelsiorlef
Member
We've seen plenty of studies on indocrination and how pressures can turn good people corrupt.
I don't believe the police problem is individual I believe it's systemic.
People who want a better police should not have to become police to achieve it.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
LOL! Ok..all police threads must have a Zootopia reference from now on.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Is anyone asking the cops to take care of african american single women raising kids
I thought they were mostly asking them to stop killing those kids
I thought they were mostly asking them to stop killing those kids
Cesare Borgia
Banned
I don't think he's entirely wrong. Police deal directly with a variety of things that simply are not their fault. It's not police's fault that next to nothing is done about gun trafficking, meaning there are more illegal guns on the streets for them to deal with. Nor did police deplete inner cities of tax revenue and jobs, resulting in more unemployed and hopeless people turning to crime. Nor did police kill manufacturing, resulting in rural towns becoming hubs for opiate drugs. Yet they have to deal with all those consequences. It's a hard job, only a fool would deny that.
The problem is that police refuse to deal with the things that are their fault. Corruption within departments, the lack of focus on community policing, mindlessly defending bad cops no matter what, etc. When you add that into the mix of the society ills you get an even more unstable, ugly situation.
The problem is that police refuse to deal with the things that are their fault. Corruption within departments, the lack of focus on community policing, mindlessly defending bad cops no matter what, etc. When you add that into the mix of the society ills you get an even more unstable, ugly situation.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
He's right that Cops should not be a cure all or a send for all. We should be given alternatives to deal with things like the mentally handicapped, those dealing with drug addiction, etc. Diversified responses for diverse problems.
But his reasoning? Makes him a piece of shit.
And the fact that people can't see this clear problem? Makes them stupid.
But his reasoning? Makes him a piece of shit.
And the fact that people can't see this clear problem? Makes them stupid.
The problem is that single women raising kids is the highest risk factor for criminal behavior. Inevitably, a large number of those kids end up directly becoming the police's problem.
What's so difficult to understand?
He's urging some black men to get off the street and start giving back their community by becoming an officer. If more officers come from the communities they serve there will be less instances black men being killed by cops.
For example, Peter Liang was a fish out of water patrolling the Pink Houses. It's the reason why he was so spookied and killed Akai Gurley (in Bklyn).
So is uncle Rukus.
And real life examples like stacy dash, raven simone, don fucking lemon ....
Gordon Shumway
Banned
"Odd" how folks on here are ignoring it..and agree with him 100%..
To be fair, if they actually HAD fathers, they wouldn't get shot..
shadowsdarknes
Member
Police have had an increasing role in schools. And police are often the go to for discipline. They get tasked with all sorts of issues. Schools often refer to police as school resource officers because their role often extends well beyond just keeping a school safe from violence.
BronsonLee
Member
You don't need to pat him on the back, but you don't need to crush him for making his point badly.
I get what you're going for, but this is a fuckup.
I definitely agree with the major point: cops should be the last resort but they are frequently the first and only.
If we had better mental health care, if we have been education for at-risk kids, and better support for parents, if we had stronger social safety nets; cops would have much less to do.
If we had better mental health care, if we have been education for at-risk kids, and better support for parents, if we had stronger social safety nets; cops would have much less to do.
Ahem...
What the city asks of police to do through the guise of law enforcement goes above and beyond actual law enforcement.
That does not take away from the issue of systemic racism within the criminal justice system, but that also wasn't what he was addressing.
therealist
Member
How is that a racist talking point? It's racist if you attribute the cause of absent black fathers to something inherent in the skin color. It's not racist to acknowledge that lack of male role models is a problem facing black children. If you don't or refuse to accept what the problem is, then how can you even begin to think of what the cause is, in order to fix it?
MHWilliams
Member
I disagree with the assessment you're replying to, but people can be racist against their own race. It's pretty simple. I'm unsure why this is the substance of your reply and others.
72 percent are born out of wedlock. 67 percent don't live with their father.
Simple outcome of the justice system itself.
- African Americans now constitute nearly 1 million of the total 2.3 million incarcerated population
- African Americans are incarcerated at nearly six times the rate of whites
- Together, African American and Hispanics comprised 58% of all prisoners in 2008, even though African Americans and Hispanics make up approximately one quarter of the US population
- According to Unlocking America, if African American and Hispanics were incarcerated at the same rates of whites, today's prison and jail populations would decline by approximately 50%
- One in six black men had been incarcerated as of 2001. If current trends continue, one in three black males born today can expect to spend time in prison during his lifetime
- Nationwide, African-Americans represent 26% of juvenile arrests, 44% of youth who are detained, 46% of the youth who are judicially waived to criminal court, and 58% of the youth admitted to state prisons (Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice).
Let's hit the drug war statistics.
Why?
Oh, drug arrests.
Ah, drug arrests leading back to the 90s.
Which is to say, law enforcement is cleaning up a problem of its own creation. You want more fathers being able to be with their children? Arrest and sentence them the same way you would with a white offender.
Loose dogs would fall under animal control actually.
I can vaguely see the point with mental health and failing schools, but those are things many of the protesters want fixed as well, so...
It's amazing how resilient people are to understanding what he meant.
Children raised in dysfunctional homes such as by single parents have been statistically shown to be at a greater risk of behavioral/emotional/psychological problems growing up, which sometimes can translate to behavioral problems at school, and then ultimately crime.
Whenever these problems happen at school or a teenager shoplifts or is caught with drugs, who handles it? Cops. They are always the first responders to these kinds of results of our socially unequal, mismanaged society.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
70% bullshit talking point? I'll crush him like an ant! You can do what you like..
Saint Gregory
Member
The highest? Really? I would say poverty and lack of opportunities would both rank above it.
Are you a dispatcher? If so, cool. If not, stop talking on things you know nothing about.
I've responded to these types of calls:
"See reportee, 12 year old doesnt want to go to school"
"See reportee, states shes mad because her husband won't have sex with her"
"See reportee, child is being disresceptful"
"Neighbors dog is barking"
So..... Yes, we get all the calls.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
Because I tried to make a simplified point? Uh I don't see anything wrong with what i posted.
cr0w
Old Member
Bingo. Cops have no stake or connection to the people and neighborhoods their policing anymore, for the most part. They don't know you, and you don't know them. It's a totally different thing when the cop knows and looks at you as a peer or a neighbor.
excelsiorlef
Member
Hey at least it's not South Park...I guess.
Not to mention the analogy fails. The rabbit was not part of the analogue racial minority class.
She didn't join the PD to change their oppression of the racial analogue class.
And she was actually racist for most of it.
She's essentially an analogue white casual racist who gets "woke" by actually getting to know black folk and then saves them.
It's a fun movie but a great race relations analogue it is not.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Nah, man! It amused me! Don't take it wrong. Legitimately laughed..
Would you guess that being a single mother probably makes your household income significantly lower?
I mean I understand the Dallas PD seems to be better per the data (far from perfect but better) than a lot of other places on these issues but what went down this week didn't start in Dallas (the protest in Dallas wasn't because of something that went down in Dallas) and it extends beyond Dallas. Pointing out issues at the top, above the police, is good. However, the way things are phrased in his speech/conference come off as a strawman. We know why people are upset at the police and it isn't because of unrealistic expectations or demands. It's because they sometimes fail to meet basic, realistic demands (be fair, be open, take responsibility and appropriate punishment when you fuck up, etc.)
This is why I'm saying the messaging is borked.
Also this. Not that getting "good people" in there is a bad idea and there is a lot of value in working withing a system to affect change. I have no qualms for him asking for more people to try to enter the police force. It's just not a panacea or guaranteed to work by itself. Furthermore, the implication of "instead of protesting" as if protesters are just whiners and not trying to be active agents of change really rubs me the wrong way.
Dreams-Visions
Member
unfortunately this.
Nobody is asking police to raise children or not take law-breaking delinquents to jail; just not shoot them without reasonable fear of grievous bodily injury.
is that hard to understand, or...?
wesleyshark
Banned
When asked what advice he would give black men, Chief Brown said, “Become a part of the solution, serve your community. Don’t be a part of the problem…we’re hiring. Get off that protest line and put an application in. We’ll put you in your neighborhood – we will help you resolve some of the problems you are protesting about.”
This is really good.
This is really good.
He could alao urge them to become teachers, psychiatrists, animal rescuers, and youth-specialised professionals. And urge employers to hire more black men. To, y'know, solve the problems he'a apparently sick of dealing with.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
No.
Agreed. It is statistically higher in certain communities, though.
Seriously, that's great. But, unfortunately anecdotal evidence isn't definitive in the least. I teach in a multicultural and a high percentage of my students have been in a mother-only home. Anecdotal, so I don't use it as definitive. Just use the statistics.
They were actively involved in its planning.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/dallas-protesters-worked-closely-with-police-721663043801
But that interpretation of that statistic is not correct. I said so multiple times in this thread and MHwilliams went in further
BronsonLee
Member
MHWilliams handled it better than I can.
I think he just liked the reference, b
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I didn't really get a sense of him saying that blacks are their own enemy. His point was more that law enforcement cannot create public policy that would better help solve the underlying issues of black crime, along with touching on other issues like open carry and community policing. I recommend watching his press conference if you can find it.
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