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[Mammoth Jones]

The missing resource is properly trained police who are mentally capable of handling those situations. That's what he's asking for. That's what he's not getting.

No, that is not what's missing. What's missing is that police departments across the nation have to be dragged kicking and screaming to stop protecting members of their force that blatantly violate citizens rights. From the blue wall, to police unions, to prosecutors. That's the problem. Adding more good cops is admirable until they're in a culture rife with demands to keep quiet and not rock the boat.

See what being a "good apple" gets you when the barrel is the problem:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/21/magazine/a-black-police-officers-fight-against-the-nypd.html

I know that cops killing people is what people are upset about. The cops have things they're upset about too - things that will help to address the concern of the people. Both deserve to be addressed.

Sorry but citizens being murdered by their own police is more concerning to me than how a volunteer feels about his volunteer position. If cops don't like it they can quit. I can't quit being Black.

While police reform is obviously desperately needed, at a certain point making gestures of falling upon the sword is less productive than actually requesting assistance.

A part of the solution is to request the correct assistance. Just saying "Shut up or put up" doesn't really help the situation.

 

[MHWilliams]

Seriously, that's great. But, unfortunately anecdotal evidence isn't definitive in the least. I teach in a multicultural and a high percentage of my students have been in a mother-only home. Anecdotal, so I don't use it as definitive. Just use the statistics.

And the reason for that is above. Once again, law enforcement and justice system issues, not one endemic to black people themselves.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

So he wants people with no power to change things

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

MHWilliams being clutch as per usual. It's easy to say "absentee fathers" but it's a hell of a lot more complex than that.

 

[Slayven]

How is that a racist talking point? It's racist if you attribute the cause of absent black fathers to something inherent in the skin color. It's not racist to acknowledge that lack of male role models is a problem facing black children. If you don't or refuse to accept what the problem is, then how can you even begin to think of what the cause is, in order to fix it?

cause only racist and hoteps use it

 

[Kin5290]

So he wants people with no power to change things

No? He's calling out society and government for failing to address these issues and leaving them for law enforcement to handle.

 

[Plinko]

And the reason for that is above. Once again, law enforcement and justice system issues, not one endemic to black people themselves.

I never once implied it was because of "black people themselves." It is absolutely a systemic issue and it has resulted in a vicious cycle that needs to be fixed as soon as possible.

 

[Slayven]

Odd he isn't singling out Republicans slashing any and every social program.

 

[Infinite]

No.



Agreed. It is statistically higher in certain communities, though.



Seriously, that's great. But, unfortunately anecdotal evidence isn't definitive in the least. I teach in a multicultural and a high percentage of my students have been in a mother-only home. Anecdotal, so I don't use it as definitive. Just use the statistics.

The stats say that 72% of black children are born out of wedlock and 67% are raised in a single patent household. This stat does not mean that 67% of black fathers are entirely absents from their children lives and it also doesn't mean that 67% of black fathers just happen to be ain't shit niggas.

I never once implied it was because of "black people themselves." It is absolutely a systemic issue and it has resulted in a vicious cycle that needs to be fixed as soon as possible.

The police chief is essentially saying that though and absolving law enforcement of any fault here when law enforcement overwhelmingly contributes to this issue.

 

[BokehKing]

What's wrong with telling protesters to become cops, don't you want people in there that will give you more confidence they won't shoot first? People in there that have a better understanding of the people in the communities they are patrolling? It sounds like a great idea to me.

Spoiler

really it does, until you factor in the fact you are still locking black men down to poor sections of the city

But hey you got to try no? Shit ain't going to magically fix itself.

 

[MHWilliams]

MHWilliams being clutch as per usual. It's easy to say "absentee fathers" but it's a hell of a lot more complex than that.

It's wonderfully easy to point at the symptoms and neglect to deal with the causes, especially if one is a part of those causes.

Note: The Dallas Police Department has improved a good deal over the years. That does not mean there's not more work to be done. I'm sympathetic to Brown's position and the work that police officers as law enforcement have to do. What it does not excuse is the killing of its own citizens and the relatively low punishments meted out for such acts. Honestly, if you even just fixed just the last one, most of the protests would dry up.

 

[Mr. X]

So he wants people with no power to change things

He was calling out those above him for lack of resources and leaving the DPD/police in general to deal with it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

When asked what advice he would give black men, Chief Brown said, “Become a part of the solution, serve your community. Don’t be a part of the problem…we’re hiring. Get off that protest line and put an application in. We’ll put you in your neighborhood – we will help you resolve some of the problems you are protesting about.”

This is really good.

So you think calling protestors part of the problem and that becoming police is the solution is really good.

This is a flat out insult to folks protesting. Calling them part of the problem and the police the solution.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Odd he isn't singling out Republicans slashing any and every social program.

Gee, I wonder why...

More of that "Black people are their own worse enemy" bullshit.

 

[Ovid]

He could alao urge them to become teachers, psychiatrists, animal rescuers, and youth-specialised professionals. And urge employers to hire more black men. To, y'know, solve the problems he'a apparently sick of dealing with.

Obviously those other occupations would help solve some of the problems in the black community, but he's talking specifically about policing.

 

[lenovox1]

I disagree with the assessment you're replying to, but people can be racist against their own race. It's pretty simple. I'm unsure why this is the substance of your reply and others.



72 percent are born out of wedlock. 67 percent don't live with their father.

Simple outcome of the justice system itself.

• African Americans now constitute nearly 1 million of the total 2.3 million incarcerated population
• African Americans are incarcerated at nearly six times the rate of whites
• Together, African American and Hispanics comprised 58% of all prisoners in 2008, even though African Americans and Hispanics make up approximately one quarter of the US population
• According to Unlocking America, if African American and Hispanics were incarcerated at the same rates of whites, today's prison and jail populations would decline by approximately 50%
• One in six black men had been incarcerated as of 2001. If current trends continue, one in three black males born today can expect to spend time in prison during his lifetime
• Nationwide, African-Americans represent 26% of juvenile arrests, 44% of youth who are detained, 46% of the youth who are judicially waived to criminal court, and 58% of the youth admitted to state prisons (Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice).

Let's hit the drug war statistics.



Why?



Oh, drug arrests.



Ah, drug arrests leading back to the 90s.



Which is to say, law enforcement is cleaning up a problem of its own creation. You want more fathers being able to be with their children? Arrest and sentence them the same way you would with a white offender.

Loose dogs would fall under animal control actually.

I can vaguely see the point with mental health and failing schools, but those are things many of the protesters want fixed as well, so...

Did a... Did a cop make those laws and did cops send those children and men to prison? We all know the whole system from the ground up is poisoned, but in the OP he is only referring to the calls his office has to respond to and the responsibility the municipal government and the community at large has placed on his office. So all of that is just missing his actual points.

And the city of Dallas doesn't have an animal control, so that becomes his job.

 

[dity]

Are you a dispatcher? If so, cool. If not, stop talking on things you know nothing about.

I've responded to these types of calls:
"See reportee, 12 year old doesnt want to go to school"
"See reportee, states shes mad because her husband won't have sex with her"
"See reportee, child is being disresceptful"
"Neighbors dog is barking"


So..... Yes, we get all the calls.

Yes, people can call 911 for silly reasons. A couple of examples doesn't prove his point though.

Obviously those other occupations would help solve some of the problems in the black community, but he's talking specifically about policing.

How does becoming a police officer solve the issue of "police aren't supposed to deal with these problems"?

 

[Plinko]

The stats say that 72% of black children are born out of wedlock and 67% are raised in a single patent household. This stat does not mean that 67% of black fathers are entirely absents from their children lives and it also doesn't mean that 67% of black fathers just happen to be ain't shit niggas.

Please point out where I said it meant that.

The police chief is essentially saying that though and absolving law enforcement of any fault here when law enforcement overwhelmingly contributes to this issue

I don't necessarily think he is trying to absolve police, though. I think he is trying to say everyone has responsibility, which is true.

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

I'm not making his point for him. No one expects cops to solve that problem. No one calls them to ask about that problem. People do not call the cops to babysit or ask for relationship advice.

Even if society is failing to help those people, no one is standing there and expecting cops to solve that situation. A lack of a solution doesn't makes them the solution by default. No one is asking them to help in that kind of situation, so he should act like people are. That's stupid.

Spend some time in your local big city juvenile justice facility and you will see enough parenting via
police to send you to a state of depression. When I was a juvenile public defender I represented so many kids whose parents just gave up on them and called the cops for muscle and then couldn't understand why their kid would be locked up for large stretches of time. Can't tell you how many defendants I've represented or prosecuted who should have received mental health services or rehab or other treatments but no one wants to foot the bill and the they are panhandling and drunk or hooking at a truck stop. Cops are absolutely being asked to catch all of these people that society should have assisted before it got to the point of involving armed officers. He could have been more careful on his wording, but I agree with him almost completely. We are passing the buck on all of these issues be ause it is easier to just lock up people and slap them with a criminal record than address the why

 

[Slayven]

Did a... Did a cop make those laws and did cops send those children and men to prison? We all know the whole system from the ground up is poisoned, but in the OP he is only referring to the calls his office has to respond to and the responsibility the municipal government and the community at large has placed on his office. So all of that is just missing his actual points.

And the city of Dallas doesn't have an animal control, so that becomes his job.

and single black mothers caused this? I know Black Women are a consistent voting block but I didn't know they were all powerful

 

[MHWilliams]

Did a... Did a cop make those laws and did cops send those children and men to prison? We all know the whole system from the ground up is poisoned, but in the OP he is only referring to the calls his office has to respond to and the responsibility the municipal government and the community at large has placed on his office. So all of that is just missing his actual points.

And the city of Dallas doesn't have an animal control, so that becomes his job.

I assume a cop is at least somewhat involved in the situations they are called to deal with. The difference between an officer leaving a citizen with a warning, a fine, or an arrests is based on a number of factors, including biases related to race. You seem to want to raise the burdens officers have to deal with, but minimize their responsibility for how they choose to deal with those situations.

Good to know about animal control.

I don't read it that way. The single mothers are doing their jobs. He's obviously putting the burden on black men.

This was my read as well, hence my previous posts.

 

[entremet]

Racist love blaming black women for the downfall of society

I don't read it that way. The single mothers are doing their jobs. He's obviously putting the burden on black men.

 

[Kreed]

“Become a part of the solution, serve your community. Don’t be a part of the problem…we’re hiring. Get off that protest line and put an application in. We’ll put you in your neighborhood – we will help you resolve some of the problems you are protesting about.”

The whole point of BLM protests is black people being killed over nothing by police (of all ethnicities BTW, people forget some of these cops are black, like in the case of Freddie Gray). Just today we got a thread discussing how a black man was killed last week for having a wide nose. Serving the community/etc... are good messages, but how about just not killing unarmed people first? AND if and when it does happen charge them with actual crimes and not putting them on paid vacation? If that's too much for the Dallas Police Department they all need to be let go.

 

[Infinite]

Please point out where I said it meant that.

You said this:

"We've had this discussion on GAF about the high percentage of black single-parent homes before, and statistics show that it is absolutely a legitimate issue that should be discussed. Not sure if the policeman chose the right venue, though."

And given the conversation I don't know how to take this. What did you mean here?

 

[FyreWulff]

"Not my problem"

 

[Matty77]

It's wonderfully easy to point at the symptoms and neglect to deal with the causes, especially if one is a part of those causes.

Note: The Dallas Police Department has improved a good deal over the years. That does not mean there's not more work to be done. I'm sympathetic to Brown's position and the work that police officers as law enforcement have to do. What it does not excuse is the killing of its own citizens and the relatively low punishments meted out for such acts. Honestly, if you even just fixed just the last one, most of the protests would dry up.

That's kind of where I am at, maybe I should have edited my first post since the OP just listed a laundry list of word salad with no context and people jumped off. While I think some of it was badly phrased I stand by thinking he's not wrong.

I also think it's okay to feel that way while also feeling his statements that I mostly agree with in no way address or offer solutions to the no.1 problem everyone wants solved, and the fact that a lot of what he's saying still wouldn't be a competent fix for any problems until reform not only deals with offenders but those who would stay silent about offenders.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Would you guess that being a single mother probably makes your household income significantly lower?

That's not what's implied by these stats. The implication is single black mothers can't raise their kids without a strong male role model in the house so the kids go crazy and turn to crime. I never see these stats quoted to imply a financial factor.

There's a vicious cycle playing out every day in black communities where young men trying to support their families can't find jobs and then turn to other activities deemed to be illegal. I'm not even talking about selling drugs, as we've seen even selling CDs and loose cigarettes can get you in trouble. Having any kind of criminal record for a black man pretty much ends any chances of finding gainful employment for the rest of your life and as we're seeing the police in this country are encouraged to arrest black men for even minor infractions. How are you supposed to be a good father then?

 

[A Link to the Past]

The Police Chief just had a press conference and had some interesting perspective.



Cops.. They USED to be heroes to most of the public, now they're used up & vilified, way too often. Sad situation


http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/07/11/...e-asking-cops-to-do-too-much-in-this-country/

Absolutely - back when people were ignorant, cops were heroic.

 

[JP_]

So he wants people with no power to change things

We're asking them to do ONE thing, and that's NOT shooting blacks first and asking questions later.

Stupid son of a bitch.

Literally signs up at these rallies that say "Stop shooting us." Where the fuck did anybody ask you and yours for help with our fucking homework?

However, the way things are phrased in his speech/conference come off as a strawman. We know why people are upset at the police and it isn't because of unrealistic expectations or demands. It's because they sometimes fail to meet basic, realistic demands (be fair, be open, take responsibility and appropriate punishment when you fuck up, etc.)

I honestly don't think he was responding to people's criticisms of police killings. You can listen to what he was responding to here: https://youtu.be/XGRiVYI2RPU?t=30m50s

When he's talking about the police being asked to do too much, he was not directing that at the public/protestor criticism of cops -- he was answering a question by a reporter about cop resources being spread thin. It had nothing to do with the criticism of excessive use of force by police -- it's clearly being taken out of context. He saw it as an opportunity to criticize what he sees as a lack of action by GOVERNMENT, not by people. He's telling government officials to literally "do their jobs." When asked to elaborate, he explains how government officials should be proposing gun regulations.

To be clear, his complaints about being responsible for fixing everything was directed at city governments, not the public or protestors. His first examples were mental health funding, drug rehab funding, loose dog problem etc -- he's mocking the city government when he says "let the cops handle it." He called for "other parts of our democracy to help us." He also talked about gun laws. He told legislators to "do their job" and propose gun regulations. He's calling out the government's failures, not the people's.

 

[Infinite]

I assume a cop is at least somewhat involved in the situations they are called to deal with. The difference between an officer leaving a citizen with a warning, a fine, or an arrests is based on a number of factors, including biases related to race. You seem to want to raise the burdens officers have to deal with, but minimize their responsibility for how they choose to deal with those situations.

Good to know about animal control.



This was my read as well, hence my previous posts.

Also what about racial profiling, broken windows policing, stop and frisk etc.

 

[dity]

Spend some time in your local big city juvenile justice facility and you will see enough parenting via
police to send you to a state of depression. When I was a juvenile public defender I represented so many kids whose parents just gave up on them and called the cops for muscle and then couldn't understand why their kid would be locked up for large stretches of time. Can't tell you how many defendants I've represented or prosecuted who should have received mental health services or rehab or other treatments but no one wants to foot the bill and the they are panhandling and drunk or hooking at a truck stop. Cops are absolutely being asked to catch all of these people that society should have assisted before it got to the point of involving armed officers. He could have been more careful on his wording, but I agree with him almost completely. We are passing the buck on all of these issues be ause it is easier to just lock up people and slap them with a criminal record than address the why

Giving up on a child, or calling in their illegal activity, isn't the same as as not wanting to foot the bill for therapy or rehab. The parents might not be able to see it (mental health issues), or just drugs = illegal. You also have to account for the child's willingness to do either.

 

[Lord Error]

“Seventy percent of the African American community is being raised by single women

Is this seriously true? And if it is, how is that possible?

 

[MUnited83]

I dont think anyone in history ever asked cops to solve the problems he listed, so i dont know what the fuck he's on about. All that it's asked is for them to stop the culture of trigger-happy fuckwits in the force and to solve the clear racial bias going on in the institution. They definitely can try to take steps to solve those issues.

 

[lenovox1]

and single black mothers caused this? I know Black Women are a consistent voting block but I didn't know they were all powerful

That's not what was said.

I assume a cop is at least somewhat involved in the situations they are called to deal with. The difference between an officer leaving a citizen with a warning, a fine, or an arrests is based on a number of factors, including biases related to race. You seem to want to raise the burdens officers have to deal with, but minimize their responsibility for how they choose to deal with those situations.

Good to know about animal control.



This was my read as well, hence my previous posts.

That's not what was said. As I said, the entired system is poisoned. That very loosely relates to his answers and points with regards to the questions given to him and with regards to the murder of his officers.

 

[Plinko]

You said this:

"We've had this discussion on GAF about the high percentage of black single-parent homes before, and statistics show that it is absolutely a legitimate issue that should be discussed. Not sure if the policeman chose the right venue, though."

And given the conservation I don't know how to take this. What did you mean here?

That was in response to somebody instantly brushing off the cop as if whatever he said was wrong and doesn't deserve discussion. Nowhere in my post was an implication that every black father isn't a part of his children's life.

 

[Otakumegane]

I may not like his wording but I agree with his point.

-The escalation of weaponized civilians attribute to the increased militarization of Police. This is in some way, the NRA's fault.

-The severe lack of black fathers (this is statistics) and single motherhood is a factor in increased crime. This is due to many causes, but I think what he meant was the community should within itself try to amend this problem with several movements.

 

[Servbot24]

No, that is not what's missing. What's missing is that police departments across the nation have to be dragged kicking and screaming to stop protecting members of their force that blatantly violate citizens rights. From the blue wall, to police unions, to prosecutors. That's the problem. Adding more good cops is admirable until they're in a culture rife with demands to keep quiet and not rock the boat.

See what being a "good apple" gets you when the barrel is the problem:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/21/magazine/a-black-police-officers-fight-against-the-nypd.html

100% agreed that disciplinary action within the police needs complete overhaul, in fact "internal investigations" should not even be a thing. And that will help to solve the problem, but it won't solve all of the problem.

Sorry but citizens being murdered by their own police is more concerning to me than how a volunteer feels about his volunteer position. If cops don't like it they can quit. I can't quit being Black.

You put a scared shitless beat cop or a redneck cunt out there with a gun, that gun might get abused. There's no justification for it, no matter who pulled the trigger, they're a murderer. Put them away for life. But next time we put another cop out on the street, let's put someone out there who has a high percentage chance of not repeating the same mistake. It's not just about punishing the cops, it's also about putting the cops in a position where the killing won't happen in the first place.

 

[MHWilliams]

Also what about racial profiling, broken windows policing, stop and frisk etc.

Indeed. Things like stop and frisk are passed as somewhat neutral, but at the level of police on the street are aimed more at minorities.

-The severe lack of black fathers (this is statistics) and single motherhood is a factor in increased crime. This is due to many causes, but I think what he meant was the community should within itself try to amend this problem with several movements.

The community cannot amend those problems if the infrastructure surrounding them, including the selfsame law enforcement, doesn't wish to do anything about it.

 

[Lime]

With the defunding of anything remotely related to the well being of its citizens (health, education, environment, equality), US society has turned into a right winged libertarian fever fantasy with complete deregulation and minimal taxes that only funds security forces / law enforcement to maintain "order" in society where militarized police forces maintain every function of the state.

It's such a dystopia.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Organizations like BLM are just asking police officers to treat encounters with Black citizens the same as they would encounters with White ones (meaning not a sometimes immediate escalation to force).

I guess that is being asked to do too much.

 

[FyreWulff]

-The severe lack of black fathers (this is statistics)

If you're black you're more likely to have your father in your life than if you're white.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=753269

Stop repeating racist propaganda.

 

[Onemic]

The problem is that cops arent held accountable for their actions

 

[lenovox1]

Organizations like BLM are just asking police officers to treat encounters with Black citizens the same as they would encounters with White ones (meaning not a sometimes immediate escalation to force).

I guess that is being asked to do too much.

And, again, that's not what he was referring to when he made his statements. We're talking about two seperate issues being conflated.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Organizations like BLM are just asking police officers to treat encounters with Black citizens the same as they would encounters with White ones (meaning not a sometimes immediate escalation to force).

I guess that is being asked to do too much.

The answer is to become the cop that doesn't shoot and stop asking so much of the ones who do..makes sense!

 

[Infinite]

That was in response to somebody instantly brushing off the cop as if whatever he said was wrong and doesn't deserve discussion. Nowhere in my post was an implication that every black father isn't a part of his children's life.

But are you aware of what he said? He said
“Seventy percent of the African American community is being raised by single women, let’s give it to the cops to solve that as well”

But is wrong. 70% of black children are born out of wedlock and 67% are raised in single parent households. This however doesn't translate into "the African American community are being raised by single women" as black fathers whether they are married to their baby's mommas or not can still be apart of their children's lives and they are more than any other racial group.

 

[sonicmj1]

People need to keep in mind that these quotes are him at a press conference responding to questions asked by the press. If he's talking about all these systemic issues the police deal with instead of talking solely about excessive police violence, that's because a reporter is asking him about "society's problems that are dumped onto police."

 

[Dreams-Visions]

If you're black you're more likely to have your father in your life than if you're white.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=753269

Stop repeating racist propaganda.

well that clogs up some stereotypes, dunnit

 

[Otakumegane]

If you're black you're more likely to have your father in your life than if you're white.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=753269

Stop repeating racist propaganda.

Well I guess I was wrong then.

Carry on.

 

[excelsiorlef]

People need to keep in mind that these quotes are him at a press conference responding to questions asked by the press. If he's talking about all these systemic issues the police deal with instead of talking solely about excessive police violence, that's because a reporter is asking him about "society's problems that are dumped onto police."

Bad questions don't justify bad answers.

 

[tfur]

If you're black you're more likely to have your father in your life than if you're white.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=753269

Stop repeating racist propaganda.

No. That is not what the statistics say.

70%+ are NOT at home, and not living in the house. Your graph is for those that ARE living in the house.

Those statistics are not racist propaganda. They are statistics that exist. They exist for various reasons, but they are real.