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[TheRealJakoozie]

The prices are as I said aggressive. But it might be needed if Nintendo wants to claw their way back.

A more realistic proposition is probably to add 50 dollars to each SKU though. 249 and 299 respectively. But I think delivering an SKU under 200 would be a HUGE deal for them.

 

[KingSnake]

I think the gamble is will people actually use the console as a hybrid, as Nintendo has intended?

I could see a lot of kids, families, etc. not taking the time to dock the system.

It doesn't matter for Nintendo as long as they're selling software.

 

[KojiKnight]

Lol @ those prices. Insanity.

What's outrageous about them? The current Shield TV is at $200, and Nintendo doesn't have to turn a profit on the hardware alone.

 

[Vital Tundra]

I think the gamble is will people actually use the console as a hybrid, as Nintendo has intended?

I could see a lot of kids, families, etc. not taking the time to dock the system.

I can see it happening. Mario Kart in your hand, 4 players on the big screen. People would eat that shit up.

 

[blu]

So power wise its an overclocked WiiU or:

27% of PS4 power.
38% Xbone power.
11% NEO power.
8% Scorpio power.

Pretty inadequate for 2017 machine tbh.

*if NX had X1 chip.

"Power-wise" everything is an "overlocked" Analytical Engine.

 

[KAL2006]

Lol @ those prices. Insanity.

Those prices are actually doable

The Shield TV with 16GB remote and controller is currently only $200

With Nintendo producing more units I'm sure they can match that price

So tablet with 6" 540p screen with controller can easily retail at $200

The tablet and dock bundle can retail at $250 or $300 depending if the dock has a extra processor.

 

[Boney]

Nvidia and Tegra was leaked way before last week, but people refused to believe it.

Still not buying the dock idea.

 

[tanooki27]

Still not buying the dock idea.

does it not make sense to ya?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

What's outrageous about them? The current Shield TV is at $200, and Nintendo doesn't have to turn a profit on the hardware alone.

They explicitly are, though.

 

[Soldiussnaku]

How do these compare to the chips in the iPad Pro or Android tablets/phones?

Well the top end snapdragon chips are more powerful then the x1, and the mid-high chips are a little less powerful to equal then this chip.

The chips in Sammy s6 and s7 are more powerful then the x1, they drive 2k displays as well.

As for apple chips, well the a9 and a9x are monstrous in perf and I believe both chips have more GPU power on tap then the x1.

Ananadtech has in in depth reviews on each chip, and comparions to the x1

 

[TheRealJakoozie]

A small thing, but if they go with a dock they HAVE to make it so that the screen on the handheld automatically turns off when docked. Anything else would be super annoying, and also wasteful energy wise. I expect them to think of this though.

Again, exciting times! This is much more interesting than a ps4/Xbox One clone type home console IMO.

And hopefully the handheld itself has the receiver for the "pro controllers" I'm expecting they will make. It would be cool if you could take the handheld on the road and play multiplayer using the handheld only, for example in the car or on a plane.

 

[FHIZ]

They explicitly are, though.

Yeah, I thought Nintendos game is "no, we're most certainly going to make a profit on hardware" all the time. At least recently.

 

[swit]

How does Tegra X1 compares to Intel Z8750 CPU wise? (I assume integrated GPU is much better, but no idea how good is this ARM based CPU)

 

[KojiKnight]

They explicitly are, though.

Sorry, I don't think I explained it well enough... let me try again.

Nvidia needs to make a fairly substantial profit on the Nvidia shield hardware for it to be worth it for them because they aren't really selling a platform. They aren't raking in a lot of money from an ecosystem.

Nintendo on the other hand, can aim for a substantially smaller profit (because Nintendo likes hardware profits) and still come on very far ahead because they are also selling a platform and an ecosystem.


Sooo... Let's just, as an example, say nvidia needs to turn a $50 profit per system (25% of the final retail cost) to make it worthwhile... Nintendo may only need to turn $20 (10% of the final retail cost) to make it worthwhile for them. That extra $30 could easily pay for the screen and any other hardware bits that differentiate it from the Shield TV and still maintain the same $200 or lower pricepoint.

Nintendo learned the hard way that $250 is a hard price point to justify for a portable system... and that $300-350 is too much for a console that can't compete graphically.

 

[KageMaru]

I honestly think Nintendo shouldn't care about third parties.

Nintendo hasn't cared about third party publishers for a while now and outside of the Wii, it's always bit them in the ass. There's a reason why early rumors of the NX being easy to port to got so much attention.

Unless Nintendo catches lightning in a bottle a second time, they need 3rd party support, even if they up their output on software.

A Nintendo system that could play Mario Kart, Metroid, Zelda, GTA6, Battlefield 1, and Elders Scrolls 6 at 1080p sounds amazing to me. Shame it'll probably never happen.

 

[ElTorro]

What's outrageous about them? The current Shield TV is at $200, and Nintendo doesn't have to turn a profit on the hardware alone.

I'd even argue that any price over $200 would make this thing DoA.

 

[TheRealJakoozie]

Yeah, I thought Nintendos game is "no, we're most certainly going to make a profit on hardware" all the time. At least recently.

But the profit doesn't have to be huge. I believe they didn't make much on the 3DS after they slashed the price so much after the slow launch. At least not at that time.

Anyway, times have changed. Nintendo has to be careful not to price themselves out of he market.

@KageMaru: I kind of see your point. I just feel like it's already a lost battle for Nintendo, and the only way they can actually bring back third parties is by building a successful platform by themselves.

 

[KingSnake]

Sorry, I don't think I explained it well enough... let me try again.

Nvidia needs to make a fairly substantial profit on the Nvidia shield hardware for it to be worth it for them because they aren't really selling a platform. They aren't raking in a lot of money from an ecosystem.

Nintendo on the other hand, can aim for a substantially smaller profit (because Nintendo likes hardware profits) and still come on very far ahead because they are also selling a platform and an ecosystem.


Sooo... Let's just, as an example, say nvidia needs to turn a $50 profit per system (25% of the final retail cost) to make it worthwhile... Nintendo may only need to turn $20 (10% of the final retail cost) to make it worthwhile for them. That extra $30 could easily pay for the screen and any other hardware bits that differentiate it from the Shield TV.

On top of that there should be much more NX devices than Shield produced, which means much lower costs per chip.

 

[Jackano]

I would suggest the following SKUs:

1. The handheld alone for 199 USD.
2. The handheld plus dock and one wireless pro controller for 249 USD

The entiere purpose of detachable controller(s) is to kill the need for a pro controller.
This is one of the rare advantages I see in this idea. So why would you another one in a different SKU. Plus, a controller is 50$ alone. Adding a dock + one controller is worthing more than 50$. Your second SKU is 300$ at least.

 

[blu]

How does Tegra X1 compares to Intel Z8750 CPU wise? (I assume integrated GPU is much better, but no idea how good is this ARM based CPU)

Memory subsystem peculiarities non-withstanding, and assuming an off-the-shelf TX1 with 4x A57s@2GHz, TX1 would beat it handily in anything multi-threaded, about on-par in single-threaded.

 

[Yado]

Sorry, I don't think I explained it well enough... let me try again.

Nvidia needs to make a fairly substantial profit on the Nvidia shield hardware for it to be worth it for them because they aren't really selling a platform. They aren't raking in a lot of money from an ecosystem.

Nintendo on the other hand, can aim for a substantially smaller profit (because Nintendo likes hardware profits) and still come on very far ahead because they are also selling a platform and an ecosystem.


Sooo... Let's just, as an example, say nvidia needs to turn a $50 profit per system (25% of the final retail cost) to make it worthwhile... Nintendo may only need to turn $20 (10% of the final retail cost) to make it worthwhile for them. That extra $30 could easily pay for the screen and any other hardware bits that differentiate it from the Shield TV and still maintain the same $200 or lower pricepoint.

Nintendo learned the hard way that $250 is a hard price point to justify for a portable system... and that $300-350 is too much for a console that can't compete graphically.

But this isn't just a portable system is it?

 

[TheRealJakoozie]

The entiere purpose of detachable controller(s) is to kill the need for a pro controller.
This is one of the rare advantages I see in this idea. So why would you another one in a different SKU. Plus, a controller is 50$ alone. Adding a dock + one controller is worthing more than 50$. Your second SKU is 300$ at least.

I guess you have a point about the detachable controller. This whole thing seems like a weird idea though. Assuming you have to dock the handheld itself near the tv, then what, are you supposed to sit with two sticks in your hands and play? My impression was that people didn't love that with the Wii, and those could at least be ergonomically designed. (With the NX controllers this will be a lot more difficult, since they have to be able to clip on to the sides of the handheld reportedly).

Enlighten me please on how these detachable controllers would work, I might be misunderstanding the whole concept. But the idea strikes me as kind of silly, and the least credible part of this leak. And the two player thing? The only games that would lend themselves to being played on half a controller are 2D sidescrollers possibly, and mini games. Meh.

Anyway, I'll give you that a controller is typically sold for 50 dollars. But that's not really relevant, the question is how much it costs for Nintendo to produce them. And the dock might be super cheap for them to make, depends on how smart it is.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Lol @ those prices. Insanity.

They may seem crazy cheap but I don't think Nintendo should assume they can charge $300 and sail along fine. The market doesn't think Nintendo hardware can command a premium these days.

 

[Wildean]

A small thing, but if they go with a dock they HAVE to make it so that the screen on the handheld automatically turns off when docked. Anything else would be super annoying, and also wasteful energy wise. I expect them to think of this though.

Again, exciting times! This is much more interesting than a ps4/Xbox One clone type home console IMO.

And hopefully the handheld itself has the receiver for the "pro controllers" I'm expecting they will make. It would be cool if you could take the handheld on the road and play multiplayer using the handheld only, for example in the car or on a plane.

You'd be surprised what they don't think of. This is a software specific point, but in NSMBU there was no way to turn off the GamePad screen, which was just reproducing the image on the TV, thereby wasting your controller's already limited battery charge.

 

[Widge]

A Nintendo system that could play Mario Kart, Metroid, Zelda, GTA6, Battlefield 1, and Elders Scrolls 6 at 1080p sounds amazing to me. Shame it'll probably never happen.

It sounds good on paper but you're still needing to tear users away from their Playstation/Xbox/PC ecosystem as a primary.

Nintendo could very well end up with a loss leading console, that is very powerful and that nobody plays anything on apart from their own games. A very dangerous game to get involved in with MS & Sony swiftly tearing up the old console lifecycle duration.

With that in mind, I think they absolutely have to continue to pursue unique gameplay and device avenues. Being the "second system" may very well be their best option. Second system to those with those embedded ecosystems and chasing their classic famicom market - family and youth.

 

[KojiKnight]

But this isn't just a portable system is it?

From what we know so far? It's straight up a portable console with a dock that has HDMI out to play on a TV.

It's possible that the dock contains more hardware, but the development units definitely do not, and the only thing that hints that there COULD be more hardware in it, is a design patent for SCD (Supplementary Computational Devices).


Nintendo would be smart to keep it priced like a portable since it looks like that is what it mostly is... because it'd be a VERY hard sell as a console for $300. $200 is probably the sweet spot, but they may be able to get away with $250 if they have some killer apps at launch, and not just Zelda.

 

[KingSnake]

As there is a discussion about price also in this thread, this is relevant here:

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/nintendo-nx-the-pros-and-cons-of-a-transforming-portable/0170297

Early online speculation about pricing for the NX expects it to be cheaper than current consoles, but from what we’ve heard it’s going to be cheaper than even the vast majority expect. This is a machine that is targeting the mass market, and Nintendo certainly plans for it to have a mass market price. Price is one Wii U mistake Nintendo is determined not to repeat. This could be NX's single biggest win.

 

[BruceCLea]

Really hope they go with the next gen Pascal chip. More power and not as hot

 

[ethomaz]

What about something like this.

In handheld mode, its got the modified Tegra X1 or Tegra X2. To give it decent battery life, in handheld mode the GPU is clocked in such a way that developers get about 256 GFlops performance. That's half of what X1 does in Shield TV plugged into the wall. The screen is 540p, same as PS Vita, but still ~10x the GPU power.of VITA (26 GFlops).

The dock contains another Tegra processor, same as the one in the handheld. But when docked, the two processors operate together and clock speed is twice as high, meaning 4x the GPU performance of the handheld alone, thus 1 TF and nearly XboxOne level performance, and upto 1080p resolution (4x the handheld's native screen resolution.) Games are developed with scalable assets, more impressive on HDTV, can get current gen ports. Amazing handheld / portable system.

Would that be feasible ?

Single SKU.

Only one Tegra is needed for this low TFs performance. Pascal Tegra will possible reach 1.5TFs in base clock.

Your option is too expensive in my view... one Tegra with 60% clock in mobile mode and 100% clock in docked mode will be cheaper.

 

[GhostTrick]

So power wise its an overclocked WiiU or:

27% of PS4 power.
38% Xbone power.
11% NEO power.
8% Scorpio power.

Pretty inadequate for 2017 machine tbh.

*if NX had X1 chip.

That's a freakin gaming handheld.

 

[BruceCLea]

What are the chances that Nintendo goes for the next gen pascal version like Rich mentions at the end of the video? It has lower power consumption, plus NVidia may have made a deal with Nintendo since they couldn't nail down Sony or MS. I mean, at least Tegra 1.5.

 

[KojiKnight]

What are the chances that Nintendo goes for the next gen pascal version like Rich mentions at the end of the video? It has lower power consumption, plus NVidia may have made a deal with Nintendo since they couldn't nail down Sony or MS. I mean, at least Tegra 1.5.

Very possible... but not guaranteed. Just the fact that it would be on a smaller node may be worth the wait for nintendo... The only problem with that theory is that Nintendo so very rarely goes with the latest tech available.

 

[McHuj]

Very possible... but not guaranteed. Just the fact that it would be on a smaller node may be worth the wait for nintendo... The only problem with that theory is that Nintendo so very rarely goes with the latest tech available.

Yes, but going with a 20nm part may be worse for long term costs. I think with the entire industry moving to 16/14 nm that production, it's the process that makes most sense long term.

I suspect it's also the true reason why the NX is coming in March and not this November.

 

[Thraktor]

That's a freakin gaming handheld.

Yeah, if this rumour is true Nintendo are going to release what it not only by a massive margin their most technically ambitious handheld, but might actually be the most technically ambitious handheld ever released by any company. It's entirely possible that this could run genuinely decent ports of current generation games, on a handheld.

But, you know, "lol, Nintendo".

 

[KageMaru]

@KageMaru: I kind of see your point. I just feel like it's already a lost battle for Nintendo, and the only way they can actually bring back third parties is by building a successful platform by themselves.

Yeah you might be right. I just hope they making at least some effort in bringing on 3rd party publishers.

It sounds good on paper but you're still needing to tear users away from their Playstation/Xbox/PC ecosystem as a primary.

Nintendo could very well end up with a loss leading console, that is very powerful and that nobody plays anything on apart from their own games. A very dangerous game to get involved in with MS & Sony swiftly tearing up the old console lifecycle duration.

With that in mind, I think they absolutely have to continue to pursue unique gameplay and device avenues. Being the "second system" may very well be their best option. Second system to those with those embedded ecosystems and chasing their classic famicom market - family and youth.

I'm not thinking so much of tearing people away from the Xbox/Playstation/PC but instead winning over the people who haven't made the jump yet. Most of the console sales of a given generation happen at the later half of a cycle and Nintendo could have fought to win over those consumers.

If Sony can release a profitable 1080p machine, so could Nintendo IMO. The hardware is out there for them to do it but they choose not to. If anything, MS and Sony modifying the typical life cycle would benefit Nintendo. They could still be behind the technological curve (compared to the Neo/Scorpio) but still receive support because Sony's and MS' older systems are still being supported.

I agree that pursuing unique gameplay is a good move, but they'll never enjoy the same profits and success from 3rd party sales by always being the second system.

 

[EVH]

What are the chances that Nintendo goes for the next gen pascal version like Rich mentions at the end of the video? It has lower power consumption, plus NVidia may have made a deal with Nintendo since they couldn't nail down Sony or MS. I mean, at least Tegra 1.5.

I'm afraid none. Tegra X1 already uses active cooling in Shield, so that is no excuse to think like that just because the devkits have it.

Probably the machine uses two modes and only works full speed when in the dock, which probably has a fan and maybe a hard drive to promote digital sales.

 

[Orniletter]

Very possible... but not guaranteed. Just the fact that it would be on a smaller node may be worth the wait for nintendo... The only problem with that theory is that Nintendo so very rarely goes with the latest tech available.

I think the Tegra X1 in itself kind of goes against nintendo's past mo (it's just like half a step below the absolute bleeding edge mobile technology money can buy in 2016).

I agree with your assessment, it's certainly possible.

 

[Branduil]

I think $199 should definitely be the target. The market has consistently balked at any handheld above that price, and it would be all the more difficult to justify a higher price given how the handheld market has shrunk.

 

[BruceCLea]

I'm afraid none. Tegra X1 already uses active cooling in Shield, so that is no excuse to think like that just because the devkits have it.

Probably the machine uses two modes and only works full speed when in the dock, which probably has a fan and maybe a hard drive to promote digital sales.

Damn, but maybe they got a deal with NVIDIA? ha, desperate hoping

Is there a possibility that the base could increase power? Kind of like the Surface Book?

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

How fucking dare someone release something without industry leading chips or technology. The industry can't and should not support anything but the high end, IMO.

It's doomed if it's above $200 dollars but it's shit if it doesn't have the internals of a $400 dollar machine. Nintendo should just quit!

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

I think $199 should definitely be the target. The market has consistently balked at any handheld above that price, and it would be all the more difficult to justify a higher price given how the handheld market has shrunk.

199 euro/dollar would be an amazing price. Add in a new zelda and mario game and you got a hit.

 

[Galava]

199 euro/dollar would be an amazing price. Add in a new zelda and mario game and you got a hit.

Zelda Breath of the Wild would be a launch title(ideally), together with (rumored) splatoon and smash ports. And MAYBE Monster Hunter 5 later that year. And Dragon Quest XI.

 

[Oregano]

I don't think it's correct to say Nintendo doesn't care about third parties. But their priorities are different. Games like Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest and Youkai Watch are very important to Nintendo.

Also considering Activision made Wii Ports of COD NX could get downports of modern COD if it's successful.

Also with all the remasters nowadays they could grab some of last gens console games too.

 

[Ithil]

And this why I never look at YT comments, ever

The buffoon couldn't even get his attempt at being edgy right, as Iwata was cremated.

 

[Jon]

Throwing my hat in the ring for $300 base SKU, and $400 "Pro" SKU with dock and perhaps some other accessory.

I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment thinking this will be $250 or less for the entire unit. I'm not saying it will sell well at $300/$400, but you can't price yourself so low that it's confused with the 3DS. It has to show some distinction in the retail space. Not to mention, I think realistically the components will end up driving the price up, especially depending on the type of screen used.

 

[KingSnake]

Throwing my hat in the ring for $300 base SKU, and $400 "Pro" SKU with dock and perhaps some other accessory.

I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment thinking this will be $250 or less for the entire unit. I'm not saying it will sell well at $300/$400, but you can't price yourself so low that it's confused with the 3DS. It has to show some distinction in the retail space. Not to mention, I think realistically the components will end up driving the price up, especially depending on the type of screen used.

It's difficult to read at least the last page in a discussion?

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/nintendo-nx-the-pros-and-cons-of-a-transforming-portable/0170297

Early online speculation about pricing for the NX expects it to be cheaper than current consoles, but from what we’ve heard it’s going to be cheaper than even the vast majority expect. This is a machine that is targeting the mass market, and Nintendo certainly plans for it to have a mass market price. Price is one Wii U mistake Nintendo is determined not to repeat. This could be NX's single biggest win.

 

[Ducktail]

I don't think I've ever been so excited for a Nintendo Console before. I was very disheartened by the fact I would only buy a proper console due to Zelda and it would be gathering dust most of the time, but if this is a successor to both the Wiiu and 3DS... amazing.


And there's something nostalgic and also exciting if it utilizes cartridges too.

 

[shark sandwich]

Nintendo hasn't cared about third party publishers for a while now and outside of the Wii, it's always bit them in the ass. There's a reason why early rumors of the NX being easy to port to got so much attention.

Unless Nintendo catches lightning in a bottle a second time, they need 3rd party support, even if they up their output on software.

A Nintendo system that could play Mario Kart, Metroid, Zelda, GTA6, Battlefield 1, and Elders Scrolls 6 at 1080p sounds amazing to me. Shame it'll probably never happen.

Wii U had a decent third party lineup its first year, and nobody bought those games. Nintendo funded some great third party exclusives (Bayonetta 2 and W101) and nobody bought them. Anybody who cares about the big third party franchises already owns a PS4 or a X1 and is invested in those ecosystems.

Nintendo basically had 2 choices:
1. Try for parity with PS4 and X1 so they can get 3rd party multiplats, which will probably sell horribly.

2. Once again remain far behind in HW power, but unify their handheld w/console.

The second choice IMO makes FAR more sense than the first. Their handheld systems have always had stellar lineups. Being able to bring handheld games to console, and completely unify their development for one platform, will bring massively higher gains than getting multiplats.

Face it, it's only a tiny vocal minority saying "gee, I wish I had a third console that can play Call of Duty!"

 

[Jon]

It's difficult to read at least the last page in a discussion?

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/nintendo-nx-the-pros-and-cons-of-a-transforming-portable/0170297

My mistake, thank you for bringing this to my attention. This is what I get for Gaffing at work.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Why use the Shield TV as an indicator of price? Surely it'd make more sense to look at the Shield Tablet. While it ships with the older Tegra K1 it, like the NX, is a portable device with a screen and a form factor which better suits an SoC like the X1 (the Pixel C has a 9" screen). It also has a 1920 x 1200 resolution display.

Nintendo's chassis design would probably be more complex than a tablet (the Eurogamer drawing based on sources showed a kickstand), but the Shield Tablet has that NVidia SoC and a high resolution display, it's missing attachable controller pairs though.

Also remember the SemiAccurate report about Tegra being in the NX handheld. They claimed that Nintendo got a great price for the Tegra X1 chip and support, and there was a great post on GAF detailing how this is likely to be correct. Devices with X1 have sold poorly to date, and Nvidia would need to fulfil their wafer commitment to TSMC or pay a hefty fine. It'd be more beneficial to produce X1s for Nintendo instead.

If anything pushes the price up it'll be the strengthening Yen above all else. Hope that doesn't lead Nintendo to cheapen out on the overall design like I suspect they did with some of the hardware early this gen.