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Eurogamer: NX = portable w/ carts, detachable controllers, Tegra, TV Out, no BC, Sept

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You don't know that. X1 was already capable to run at decent clock with 1.5 W power draw.


X1 at peak was 15-20W.
Of course we know that. If Tegra Next is supposed ti be faster, Nvidia will push the clock high.

Do note that I never said anything about the power of the chip. I only stated the arch type.


Exactly. It's a good news in the sense that it means they'll be using latest tech. But it doesn't tell the whole picture. For what it's worth, it could be slower than X1, because we know X1 is a product, with fixed specs. Basically, it'd be like saying it's using Maxwell for X1. Maxwell is the arch name, X1 is the product.
 

Trago

Member
Fuck the talk about graphical power Pascal could bring, that power efficiency!

If this means a better battery life, then sign me up. I'm gonna need this thing to last pretty long during game time.
 

EVH

Member
Do note that I never said anything about the power of the chip. I only stated the arch type. Only making note of that before this turns into a game of online telephone and things end up completely off-course.

I guess you didn't get any comment about the power of that chip?
 
And how long do you think 4K adoption will take, exactly?

I wonder the same thing when people mention 4K... TV's that support 4K are only just starting to get to somewhat reasonable prices, and now you have to throw HDR support into the mix too. The majority of consumers will most likely continue buying 1080p sets now that you can get them for dirt cheap.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
X1 at peak was 15-20W.
Of course we know that. If Tegra Next is supposed ti be faster, Nvidia will push the clock high.

Tegra Next will be definitely more efficient. Like 10xx is vs. 9xx too. OK, it won't run in handheld mode at highest clocks, probably half of that or below, but it doesn't need to anyhow, as the resolution will be definitely lower, so the performance will be there.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
People already counting their chickens in here.

I remember when everyone was super adamant that the Wii-U would be able to run UE4 games and that it would mean proper third party support through downports. Perhaps from some of the same posters in this thread.

People should know better than to get carried away in thinking that X amount of power is suddenly going to make third parties give a shit about Nintendo consoles. It could run two titan X in SLI and still go completely ignored. It's not about power, it's about userbase.
 

Hydrus

Member
Just thought of something. Remember the cloud patent ? what if the dock contains a hdd where you have the option of saving games to, and its able to stream the game data to the handheld over the Internet. The handheld does all the work, the dock just simply sends over the game data. The dock isn't a console, just the supplemental device thing. This would help with the storage issues.
 
People already counting their chickens in here.

I remember when everyone was super adamant that the Wii-U would be able to run UE4 games and that it would mean proper third party support through downports. Perhaps from some of the same posters in this thread.

People should know better than to get carried away in thinking that X amount of power is suddenly going to make third parties give a shit about Nintendo consoles. It could run two titan X in SLI and still go completely ignored. It's not about power, it's about userbase.

Uhhh you are having a completely different conversation

What third party software this type of system will attract is already well accepted at this point
 

Griss

Member
People already counting their chickens in here.

I remember when everyone was super adamant that the Wii-U would be able to run UE4 games and that it would mean proper third party support through downports. Perhaps from some of the same posters in this thread.

People should know better than to get carried away in thinking that X amount of power is suddenly going to make third parties give a shit about Nintendo consoles. It could run two titan X in SLI and still go completely ignored. It's not about power, it's about userbase.

I don't believe for one second that more power will attract third parties back to Nintendo but I want that power, all the same, for Nintendo's own games. Remember that this machine will probably act as Nintendo's home console for the next couple of years. Therefore every extra bit of juice, every extra efficiency matters. It's not about ports.

That's why I'm delighted that the chip sounds like it's more advanced and power-efficient than the X1. It can only help.

But yes, with Nintendo I have learned to always expect the worst. Problem is that these rumours are all adding up, and right now they're blowing my wildest dreams away.
 

Hermii

Member
Not hard when you were already grumpy with the prospect of an Xbox one level Nintendo console and it turns out to be far weaker than that. And also if you like Nintendo handhelds that could actually fit in your pocket
A pascal Tegra that's docked and not constrained by a battery wouldn't be at least on par with Xbox one?
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Uhhh you are having a completely different conversation

What third party software this type of system will attract is already well accepted at this point

You're right, I should have mentioned i'm mostly talking about the ports and engine talk at the top of the page.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
X1 at peak was 15-20W.
Of course we know that. If Tegra Next is supposed ti be faster, Nvidia will push the clock high.




Exactly. It's a good news in the sense that it means they'll be using latest tech. But it doesn't tell the whole picture. For what it's worth, it could be slower than X1, because we know X1 is a product, with fixed specs. Basically, it'd be like saying it's using Maxwell for X1. Maxwell is the arch name, X1 is the product.

I still don't see the point in overclocking the dev kits if it's only 1 SM. I'd say that X1 is likely the minimum to expect, though it could be slower by a little bit. There's not need to have a dev kit over 2x as fast as the final hardware.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
People already counting their chickens in here.

Nobody did that before this post.

I remember when everyone was super adamant that the Wii-U would be able to run UE4 games and that it would mean proper third party support through downports. Perhaps from some of the same posters in this thread.

People should know better than to get carried away in thinking that X amount of power is suddenly going to make third parties give a shit about Nintendo consoles. It could run two titan X in SLI and still go completely ignored. It's not about power, it's about userbase.

There's no western 3rd party support guaranteed, no matter how powerful this is. Beyond Lego and Just Dance nothing is a safe assumption.

But this is still a great news.

We dont know for sure

We have next to no info on the dock

Theoretically all it needs its a power plug for the chips to run at normal clocks. Unless it needs active cooling.
 
Yeah im hoping the contract is for the 16nm SOC and not Nvidia eating some custom ordered 20nm contract through Nintendo

That would be a worst case scenario

It wouldn't be the latter, as this is supposedly a Tegra IP licensing deal, and Nintendo aren't ordering chips directly from Nvidia.
 
Tegra Next will be definitely more efficient. Like 10xx is vs. 9xx too. OK, it won't run in handheld mode at highest clocks, probably half of that or below, but it doesn't need to anyhow, as the resolution will be definitely lower, so the performance will be there.



10xx vs 9xx will be a bigger improvement because it's 16nm vs 28nm, whereas Next vs X1 is 16nm vs 20nm.

As NateDrake said, he talked about architecture. What it means is that clock isn't the only problem then. Core count will be and it might be the unknown component here, if it's a custom part and not Tegra Next.
As I said, if they end up using 1SMM, it means it'd be between 76 to 128Gflops if clocked between 300 to 500Mhz. That is a worst case scenario of course, but all I meant to say is it's not necessary a news implying processing power being higher than X1.


I still don't see the point in overclocking the dev kits if it's only 1 SM. I'd say that X1 is likely the minimum to expect, though it could be slower by a little bit. There's not need to have a dev kit over 2x as fast as the final hardware.



We dont know if the devkits were X1 overclocked. Just that it had a fan, like Jetson Tegra boards. Then again, 1SMM is just an exemple for my point, being that Pascal based doesn't indicate a processing power or an improvement over X1 on that matter. Could be worse, could be equal but with lower consumption, could be better at equal consumption.
 
People already counting their chickens in here.

I remember when everyone was super adamant that the Wii-U would be able to run UE4 games and that it would mean proper third party support through downports. Perhaps from some of the same posters in this thread.

People should know better than to get carried away in thinking that X amount of power is suddenly going to make third parties give a shit about Nintendo consoles. It could run two titan X in SLI and still go completely ignored. It's not about power, it's about userbase.
"Aunty is back home children, so yall need to settle down. Go in the kitchen and make yallselves some pb&j sandwhiches and bequiet cause I need some rest."
 

Mr Swine

Banned
People already counting their chickens in here.

I remember when everyone was super adamant that the Wii-U would be able to run UE4 games and that it would mean proper third party support through downports. Perhaps from some of the same posters in this thread.

People should know better than to get carried away in thinking that X amount of power is suddenly going to make third parties give a shit about Nintendo consoles. It could run two titan X in SLI and still go completely ignored. It's not about power, it's about userbase.

But then again Nintendo "probably" wants NX to last a bit longer than what 3DS has done in the smartphone area. Or maybe they skimp it out and it's on par with the Wii U/360/PS3 with a 544p screen
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
10xx vs 9xx will be a bigger improvement because it's 16nm vs 28nm, whereas Next vs X1 is 16nm vs 20nm.

As NateDrake said, he talked about architecture. What it means is that clock isn't the only problem then. Core count will be and it might be the unknown component here, if it's a custom part and not Tegra Next.
As I said, if they end up using 1SMM, it means it'd be between 76 to 128Gflops if clocked between 300 to 500Mhz. That is a worst case scenario of course, but all I meant to say is it's not necessary a news implying processing power being higher than X1.

If it uses 1SMM then it will run at highest clock in handheld mode, so you're wrong either way. /jk
 
Dont the Nvidia Shield Tablets run on X1?

Cuz if they do we could at least form somewhat of an image of how this will perform in a portable configuration
 
People already counting their chickens in here.

I remember when everyone was super adamant that the Wii-U would be able to run UE4 games and that it would mean proper third party support through downports. Perhaps from some of the same posters in this thread.

People should know better than to get carried away in thinking that X amount of power is suddenly going to make third parties give a shit about Nintendo consoles. It could run two titan X in SLI and still go completely ignored. It's not about power, it's about userbase.

This is more of a Nintendo handheld and what do you know they always get supported.
 

McHuj

Member
A pascal Tegra that's docked and not constrained by a battery wouldn't be at least on par with Xbox one?

I think the problem would be memory bandwidth. You'd have to overclock the memory significantly to match the core, but I don't think that's possible.

I'm still holding out hope that the base is an external GPU for TV mode.
 
Yeah, this thing is likely getting bare bones western support. Maybe some sports games, Lego, Ubisoft (initially), indies.

But I'm over here imagining Shin Megami Tensei V running on the TMS/Persona 5 engine, portably, and it's beautiful.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member

Here is an article from two days after SemiAccurate's article (I guess the same info?) in May from TweakTown: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/52119/nintendo-nx-powered-nvidia-tegra-processor-amd-chip/index.html

Specifically states Pascal-based Tegra for NX so all these 'new' stories are old. This is all very weird that so many are rehashing 2 month old news all together....

It is like in May Nintendo/Nvidia tried to do a controlled leak but didn't get the bite they hoped for so 2 months later have tried again!

Also the key word everyone is using is "reportedly" instead of "rumour". What is that all about?
 

orioto

Good Art™
10xx vs 9xx will be a bigger improvement because it's 16nm vs 28nm, whereas Next vs X1 is 16nm vs 20nm.

As NateDrake said, he talked about architecture. What it means is that clock isn't the only problem then. Core count will be and it might be the unknown component here, if it's a custom part and not Tegra Next.
As I said, if they end up using 1SMM, it means it'd be between 76 to 128Gflops if clocked between 300 to 500Mhz. That is a worst case scenario of course, but all I meant to say is it's not necessary a news implying processing power being higher than X1.

But worse case scenario is still outputing better graphics than WiiU in portable mode, at 540p right ? I realyl hope they don't go 720p for their screen,, that would be a huuuuge mistake...
 
Dont the Nvidia Shield Tablets run on X1?

Cuz if they do we could at least form somewhat of an image of how this will perform in a portable configuration



Shield Tablet runs on K1. Pixel C runs on X1 but at 850Mhz. And that is a 9 inch tablet.



But worse case scenario is still outputing better graphics than WiiU in portable mode, at 540p right ? I realyl hope they don't go 720p for their screen,, that would be a huuuuge mistake...


Worst case scenario, we'd end up with a 76Gflops handheld. It'd be pretty close to Wii U at 540p when Wii U is targeting 720p, much more at 1080p. At 720p, not so much.

But that is really worst case scenario, basically, Wii U like scenario. We know that 1SMM is 128 shader cores. So that's the bare minimum. And there's no reason for them to go below 300mhz.
 
So am I understanding this correctly...

If these "rumours" are indeed correct, NX will be a system that supports both Nintendo's handheld and homeconsole software output - meaning I don't need to buy no additional hardware?

That sounds like a dream. Even if Nintendo doesn't get the major third party support, it should be a 100x better than the Wii U situation if the above is the case.
 

nubbe

Member
Weaker than Xbone at ~>5w on a portable device is crazy good
and with Nintendo's full software support
it will be insanely good

finally
 

Bitanator

Member
Heck, I ended up just buying an over-the-shoulder bag to carry my 3DS, water, multi-tool, misc junk and my daughter's supplies with me everywhere. I don't need to fit the console in my pocket, I need to be able to see the screen (my eye-sight is horrendous).

The only people sticking Nintendo handhelds in their pockets are of the variety who still rock 90s parachute pants, because those were the only things that could fit anything other than a gameboy pocket. The OG gameboy was not pocket made, that thing was big as shit. So I do not understand the mentality of not being able to shove in a pocket, I can count on four fingers how many you could comfortably do that with using Nintendo handhelds
 

orioto

Good Art™
Shield Tablet runs on K1. Pixel C runs on X1 but at 850Mhz. And that is a 9 inch tablet.






Worst case scenario, we'd end up with a 76Gflops handheld. It'd be pretty close to Wii U at 540p when Wii U is targeting 720p, much more at 1080p. At 720p, not so much.

76gflops ? How could that be so low ?
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
We dont know if the devkits were X1 overclocked. Just that it had a fan, like Jetson Tegra boards. Then again, 1SMM is just an exemple for my point, being that Pascal based doesn't indicate a processing power or an improvement over X1 on that matter. Could be worse, could be equal but with lower consumption, could be better at equal consumption.

That would still mean at least matching X1 if the fan is loud enough to be audible. There's a fan in the Shield TV, but it's near silent. Maybe I could see two SMs at 500MHz, but no way it's less than that. If the X1 can run fanless at 850MHz, why would they add a fan to something running slower than that? Your 800>480>320>160 Wii U downgrade has already been debunked as well.

Can't you just let up have fun? If NX falls below reasonable expectatioins that's Nintendo's fault, not ours. Just believe it's 1 SM at 300MHz of that's what sounds right to you. I'll continue to claim that such a thing is impossible.
 

Donovan1209

Neo Member
As long as they nail pricing, advertising, and launch games I don't know how this thing won't succeed.

Very excited to see what this is.
 
76gflops ? How could that be so low ?


1SMM is 128 shader cores. At 300mhz, that makes it 76 gflops. That's more equivalent of the performance of 106gflops of an AMD GPU.



That would still mean at least matching X1 if the fan is loud enough to be audible. There's a fan in the Shield TV, but it's near silent. Maybe I could see two SMs at 500MHz, but no way it's less than that. If the X1 can run fanless at 850MHz, why would they add a fan to something running slower than that? Your 800>480>320>160 Wii U downgrade has already been debunked as well.

Can't you just let up have fun? If NX falls below reasonable expectatioins that's Nintendo's fault, not ours. Just believe it's 1 SM at 300MHz of that's what sounds right to you. I'll continue to claim that such a thing is impossible.




A fan being loud is subjective. How the person is tolerant to noise, room temp, but also the fan itself.
I'm not saying it'll be 1SMM, I'm just reminding you people that when we say it's X1, it's designating a product with precise specs. The only unknown is the clockspeed. When we say Pascal, it's designating an architecture without any infos on the precise specs and clockspeed.

As for my 800 > 480 > 320 > 160 downgrade for Wii U, you must have missed the 4-5 Wii U Speculation Threads.
 

Griss

Member
The only people sticking Nintendo handhelds in their pockets are of the variety who still rock 90s parachute pants, because those were the only things that could fit anything other than a gameboy pocket. The OG gameboy was not pocket made, that thing was big as shit. So I do not understand the mentality of not being able to shove in a pocket, I can count on four fingers how many you could comfortably do that with using Nintendo handhelds

I agree, I find the pocketability argument really strange. No one was walking around with 3DS's and the more popular 3DSXL in their pants pocket. I don't believe many people ever used them in public at all.

Like tablets, they're a device that's portable for use around the home and long journeys.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
1SMM is 128 shader cores. At 300mhz, that makes it 76 gflops. That's more equivalent 106gflops of an AMD GPU.

There's no logic in getting an expensive chip to gimp it both in no. of SMMs and clock. Not when stock X1 at 300mhz consumes 1.5 watts. It would be a horrible business decision.

Come on.

Edit: I understand keeping expectations in check, but this is more like a death wish or something.
 

BD1

Banned
Any mock-ups wherein the standalone controllers are actually also full-screen controllers (maybe with a nub), like that fake model from a while ago? Then you could indeed have whatever flexibility you want in terms of button layouts, without having to worry about the ergonomics or how you hold it.

In other words, basically a center screen with on the sides to variants of this:

I created an incredibly crude mockup in this thread, Post# 7980

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=211621272&postcount=7980
 
You know

It wouldnt be a bad idea to set our expectations at the minimum

That way the only way to go is up from there
Yeah good luck with that. With Nintendo it's always "What? I expected at least ..... power level!" even if the company has had a clear philosophy in the last 10 years.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Yeah people need to realize the next Nintendo portable may really well be able to do way better than that, with a crystal sharp IQ on a 5" screen. That's just science fiction for portable game play.

LhMKryJ.gif

It's kinda mindblowing that even if it just uses the X1, the NX will produce better visuals than that
 
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