Believe...
But in all seriousness, I want to know what's up with the scrollable shoulder buttons. In or aus?
wala the real NX
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Eurogamer: NX = portable w/ carts, detachable controllers, Tegra, TV Out, no BC, Sept
- Thread starter Wollan
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wala the real NX
Dolphin on Android runs fine on the current Nvidia Shield. At native resolutions (gamecube 480p Wii 540p) So I'd assume it would run even better on a device with a more advanced chipset.
I guess that depends on who you ask... 576 lines is the standard for PAL SD, although it used to be interlaced. I've seen 576p refered as SD here a couple times, while other consider 576p as HD...
Graphics Horse
Member
Iphone SE for one.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Yeah, 720p should be the standard especially since Nintendo has been pushing HD since the Wii U. Mobile devices have had HD screens since the original Galaxy Note and that came out years ago. Not to mention chips have gotten way more power efficient so battery life shouldn't be a huge problem. Not to mention if HD games Breath of the Wild and Smash Bros are suppose to be ported to this thing. It makes no sense to go any lower than 720p.
P.S. I know many of you have or will cite the Vita for having a 540p screen and while that looks good, the system has been out for over four years. It would be stupid for Nintendo to have a device that's on par with a four year old machine when smartphones can play games at vastly higher resolutions.
exactly. if it was 540p it would look great
of course 1080p would be amazing but consoles barely run games at 1080p lol. having a 1080p screen and playing games at 1080p native is totally different
ummmmmm doesnt the nvidia sheild work by streaming games from your pc/the cloud? I dont think thats the same
unless
my god
the supplemental computing patent
either way i doubt the handheld will be 1080p
GhostTrick
Banned
You mean the shield tablet that plays Trine 2 barely at 720p ?
Yeah sure.
It shouldn't be the standard. You realize that you would need to push 80% more pixels than 540p ? This comes at a cost, on battery life, memory bandwith and GPU. All for a smaller IQ bump.
Vita had a 540p screen years ago and it was a bad idea because the hardware wasn't capable enough to push this resolution.
Talking about the screen resolution, I wonder: while the vast majority of games would output at 540p, could the screen be at a slightly higher resolution in order to have a small PPI (pixel per inch) increase, without one of the problems that afflicted PlayStation Vita especially at the beginning?
I'll try to explain myself better.
PlayStation Vita featured a 5" screen with a 960x544 resolution, resulting in a PPI of almost 221, a stark contrast from the 3DS family: 132.15/132.45 for the OG, 120.23/120.12 for New 3DS, 95.59/95.69 for 3DS XL / New 3DS XL (respectively top and bottom screen). However, several Vita titles suffered from running at sub-qHD resolutions, like 720x448 (a 39% drop from qHD), 720x408 (- 43.75%) or even 640x384 (-53%). For a long time, I thought the next handheld would've featured a 5" screen at 540p, resulting in 220 PPI, and above all resulting in a much more straightforward upresolution for the home version of the same games (this was all while supporting the ecosystem theory - perfect 4x to get 1080p), plus Nintendo being famous for staying at native resolutions of their portable devices, as well as third party titles.
However, Eurogamer's leak brought other elements in the mix, i.e. the supposed architecture behind it and, above all, the detachable controllers that can be used for local multiplayer on the go. The latter implies that the device can't be so small, otherwise the controllers would be way too little, and we're already talking about small parts. So, we need to think about a device which is a bit bigger, resulting in a bigger screen, between 5.5 and 6". If the resolution stays at 540p, the PPI will obviously decrease: the break here goes from 200.26 PPI to 183.58 PPI. I suppose that, if the screen is 5.5", the resolution could still be 540p since the PPI would be at 200, but going higher it goes down to nearing 180, a bit steep decrease in image quality. The PPI could increase by increasing the resolution itself, but it can't be too big, otherwise the Vita upscaling problem would be there again.
So, I wonder if it's possible Nintendo could go with 1024x600 for the resolution of their portable's screen. In the case, the 5.5-to-6" gap would present between 215.79 to 197.81 PPI. At the same time, games going not for native resolution, but 540p would result in a 15.625% decrease from the screen resolution, so far less impacting than what happened on Vita.
I'll try to explain myself better.
PlayStation Vita featured a 5" screen with a 960x544 resolution, resulting in a PPI of almost 221, a stark contrast from the 3DS family: 132.15/132.45 for the OG, 120.23/120.12 for New 3DS, 95.59/95.69 for 3DS XL / New 3DS XL (respectively top and bottom screen). However, several Vita titles suffered from running at sub-qHD resolutions, like 720x448 (a 39% drop from qHD), 720x408 (- 43.75%) or even 640x384 (-53%). For a long time, I thought the next handheld would've featured a 5" screen at 540p, resulting in 220 PPI, and above all resulting in a much more straightforward upresolution for the home version of the same games (this was all while supporting the ecosystem theory - perfect 4x to get 1080p), plus Nintendo being famous for staying at native resolutions of their portable devices, as well as third party titles.
However, Eurogamer's leak brought other elements in the mix, i.e. the supposed architecture behind it and, above all, the detachable controllers that can be used for local multiplayer on the go. The latter implies that the device can't be so small, otherwise the controllers would be way too little, and we're already talking about small parts. So, we need to think about a device which is a bit bigger, resulting in a bigger screen, between 5.5 and 6". If the resolution stays at 540p, the PPI will obviously decrease: the break here goes from 200.26 PPI to 183.58 PPI. I suppose that, if the screen is 5.5", the resolution could still be 540p since the PPI would be at 200, but going higher it goes down to nearing 180, a bit steep decrease in image quality. The PPI could increase by increasing the resolution itself, but it can't be too big, otherwise the Vita upscaling problem would be there again.
So, I wonder if it's possible Nintendo could go with 1024x600 for the resolution of their portable's screen. In the case, the 5.5-to-6" gap would present between 215.79 to 197.81 PPI. At the same time, games going not for native resolution, but 540p would result in a 15.625% decrease from the screen resolution, so far less impacting than what happened on Vita.
Of course, my question is worthless if an around 180 PPI level for the screen is still considered good by today's standards, and I'm also eager to hear your opinion on the matter 
Talking about the screen resolution, I wonder: while the vast majority of games would output at 540p, could the screen be at a slightly higher resolution in order to have a small PPI (pixel per inch) increase, without one of the problems that afflicted PlayStation Vita especially at the beginning?
I'll try to explain myself better.
PlayStation Vita featured a 5" screen with a 960x544 resolution, resulting in a PPI of almost 221, a stark contrast from the 3DS family: 132.15/132.45 for the OG, 120.23/120.12 for New 3DS, 95.59/95.69 for 3DS XL / New 3DS XL (respectively top and bottom screen). However, several Vita titles suffered from running at sub-qHD resolutions, like 720x448 (a 39% drop from qHD), 720x408 (- 43.75%) or even 640x384 (-53%). For a long time, I thought the next handheld would've featured a 5" screen at 540p, resulting in 220 PPI, and above all resulting in a much more straightforward upresolution for the home version of the same games (this was all while supporting the ecosystem theory - perfect 4x to get 1080p), plus Nintendo being famous for staying at native resolutions of their portable devices, as well as third party titles.
However, Eurogamer's leak brought other elements in the mix, i.e. the supposed architecture behind it and, above all, the detachable controllers that can be used for local multiplayer on the go. The latter implies that the device can't be so small, otherwise the controllers would be way too little, and we're already talking about small parts. So, we need to think about a device which is a bit bigger, resulting in a bigger screen, between 5.5 and 6". If the resolution stays at 540p, the PPI will obviously decrease: the break here goes from 200.26 PPI to 183.58 PPI. I suppose that, if the screen is 5.5", the resolution could still be 540p since the PPI would be at 200, but going higher it goes down to nearing 180, a bit steep decrease in image quality. The PPI could increase by increasing the resolution itself, but it can't be too big, otherwise the Vita upscaling problem would be there again.
So, I wonder if it's possible Nintendo could go with 1024x600 for the resolution of their portable's screen. In the case, the 5.5-to-6" gap would present between 215.79 to 197.81 PPI. At the same time, games going not for native resolution, but 540p would result in a 15.625% decrease from the screen resolution, so far less impacting than what happened on Vita.
Of course, my question is worthless if an around 180 PPI level for the screen is still considered good by today's standards, and I'm also eager to hear your opinion on the matter
I'd personally bet on 2 NX models being availiable at launch. The standard NX with a 540p screen and a NX XL/HD model which will give you a better and possibly larger screen for a slightly higher cost.
Of course there is speculation that the NX will allow users with a smartphone to use the screen of their iPhone/Galaxy/smartphone as the main screen of the NX device.
Talking about the screen resolution, I wonder: while the vast majority of games would output at 540p, could the screen be at a slightly higher resolution in order to have a small PPI (pixel per inch) increase, without one of the problems that afflicted PlayStation Vita especially at the beginning?
I'll try to explain myself better.
PlayStation Vita featured a 5" screen with a 960x544 resolution, resulting in a PPI of almost 221, a stark contrast from the 3DS family: 132.15/132.45 for the OG, 120.23/120.12 for New 3DS, 95.59/95.69 for 3DS XL / New 3DS XL (respectively top and bottom screen). However, several Vita titles suffered from running at sub-qHD resolutions, like 720x448 (a 39% drop from qHD), 720x408 (- 43.75%) or even 640x384 (-53%). For a long time, I thought the next handheld would've featured a 5" screen at 540p, resulting in 220 PPI, and above all resulting in a much more straightforward upresolution for the home version of the same games (this was all while supporting the ecosystem theory - perfect 4x to get 1080p), plus Nintendo being famous for staying at native resolutions of their portable devices, as well as third party titles.
However, Eurogamer's leak brought other elements in the mix, i.e. the supposed architecture behind it and, above all, the detachable controllers that can be used for local multiplayer on the go. The latter implies that the device can't be so small, otherwise the controllers would be way too little, and we're already talking about small parts. So, we need to think about a device which is a bit bigger, resulting in a bigger screen, between 5.5 and 6". If the resolution stays at 540p, the PPI will obviously decrease: the break here goes from 200.26 PPI to 183.58 PPI. I suppose that, if the screen is 5.5", the resolution could still be 540p since the PPI would be at 200, but going higher it goes down to nearing 180, a bit steep decrease in image quality. The PPI could increase by increasing the resolution itself, but it can't be too big, otherwise the Vita upscaling problem would be there again.
So, I wonder if it's possible Nintendo could go with 1024x600 for the resolution of their portable's screen. In the case, the 5.5-to-6" gap would present between 215.79 to 197.81 PPI. At the same time, games going not for native resolution, but 540p would result in a 15.625% decrease from the screen resolution, so far less impacting than what happened on Vita.
Of course, my question is worthless if an around 180 PPI level for the screen is still considered good by today's standards, and I'm also eager to hear your opinion on the matter
I'm not sure i get it. Any other esolution, even if the decrease is small, will give you a blurry mess... That's a matter of not having a 1:1 upscale.
I wonder about that theory about the screen having to be more than 5" cause of the parts. Look at the VITA gonestly. It's 5" with buttons on the side. No reason the NX has to be bigger. Anything bigger than that will be close to something that would even be too big for a handbag or a small bag. Vita is 7" i think, total.
Now about the ppi, i think anything around native 200ppi is really good.
But really, really, what bothers me the most are people claiming their tablet or phone are higher rez.. Did you see the face of what it displays ?? Did you see Xenoblade X or Breath of the Wild on your 600 euros 1080p phone ? And i'm not even talking about the content of the game...
I also thing that. There is no reason for Nintendo to not let people the choice here. Something Vita or 3DSXL sized and something almost living room oriented, more gamepad sized. I think both versions would please different people really.
Yeah, phone displays are high resolution because they primarily display text, images, video and basic games.
There are also dozens of phone manufacturers in a specifications pissing match, where they'll boost the specs in certain areas just to catch consumer attention rather than design it around the best user experience (I think a lot of the time phones would be better off decreasing the screen resolution and increasing the battery life).
I agree that Nintendo need to increase the pixel density significantly, that's one of the biggest drawbacks with all their handhelds, especially noteworthy when you look at high resolution emulator screenshots, but unless the display is tablet sized, I think 540p and roughly the same dimensions as the Vita would be a great sweet spot. Especially given that it'll likely have the horsepower to run great looking modern games at native res.
I wonder if people asking for something like a 1080p would really be willing to compromise on graphics, or even rendering at native resolution, just to hit that number.
There are also dozens of phone manufacturers in a specifications pissing match, where they'll boost the specs in certain areas just to catch consumer attention rather than design it around the best user experience (I think a lot of the time phones would be better off decreasing the screen resolution and increasing the battery life).
I agree that Nintendo need to increase the pixel density significantly, that's one of the biggest drawbacks with all their handhelds, especially noteworthy when you look at high resolution emulator screenshots, but unless the display is tablet sized, I think 540p and roughly the same dimensions as the Vita would be a great sweet spot. Especially given that it'll likely have the horsepower to run great looking modern games at native res.
I wonder if people asking for something like a 1080p would really be willing to compromise on graphics, or even rendering at native resolution, just to hit that number.
James Scott
Banned
Yeah, the 3DS's 240p screen make it hard for any game to look good on it especially on the XL.
540p would already be a massive improvement especially if it's powerful enough to run at that resolution natively (native 540p vita games look pretty good, but sub native games do not)
AppleSautts
Member
I haven't been paying the closest attention to this thread but have we discussed how we'll control the games when in "docked mode"? I'm assuming we'll use the detachable controllers but will they connect together to form a single controller or will we hold each half in each hand like the Wiimote + nunchuck?
Safest? lol
If this product fails just like Wii U they won't have other platform to rely on just like they did with 3DS.
Sure, they have other income revenues like the amiibo, toys, mobile and soon movies and IP licencing but those are either nowhere near as profitable as their core business (gaming) or have a short term impact.
StarStabbedMoon
Member
It'll still be there.
Not quite sure what you mean. All of those points would have been worse in a hybrid 4-5 years ago. If it's true that the tech will fall short/be too expensive, that would imply it's too soon rather than too late.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
The hybrid design or the detachable controllers sound pretty gimmicky.
Pokemaniac
Member
Talking about the screen resolution, I wonder: while the vast majority of games would output at 540p, could the screen be at a slightly higher resolution in order to have a small PPI (pixel per inch) increase, without one of the problems that afflicted PlayStation Vita especially at the beginning?
I'll try to explain myself better.
PlayStation Vita featured a 5" screen with a 960x544 resolution, resulting in a PPI of almost 221, a stark contrast from the 3DS family: 132.15/132.45 for the OG, 120.23/120.12 for New 3DS, 95.59/95.69 for 3DS XL / New 3DS XL (respectively top and bottom screen). However, several Vita titles suffered from running at sub-qHD resolutions, like 720x448 (a 39% drop from qHD), 720x408 (- 43.75%) or even 640x384 (-53%). For a long time, I thought the next handheld would've featured a 5" screen at 540p, resulting in 220 PPI, and above all resulting in a much more straightforward upresolution for the home version of the same games (this was all while supporting the ecosystem theory - perfect 4x to get 1080p), plus Nintendo being famous for staying at native resolutions of their portable devices, as well as third party titles.
However, Eurogamer's leak brought other elements in the mix, i.e. the supposed architecture behind it and, above all, the detachable controllers that can be used for local multiplayer on the go. The latter implies that the device can't be so small, otherwise the controllers would be way too little, and we're already talking about small parts. So, we need to think about a device which is a bit bigger, resulting in a bigger screen, between 5.5 and 6". If the resolution stays at 540p, the PPI will obviously decrease: the break here goes from 200.26 PPI to 183.58 PPI. I suppose that, if the screen is 5.5", the resolution could still be 540p since the PPI would be at 200, but going higher it goes down to nearing 180, a bit steep decrease in image quality. The PPI could increase by increasing the resolution itself, but it can't be too big, otherwise the Vita upscaling problem would be there again.
So, I wonder if it's possible Nintendo could go with 1024x600 for the resolution of their portable's screen. In the case, the 5.5-to-6" gap would present between 215.79 to 197.81 PPI. At the same time, games going not for native resolution, but 540p would result in a 15.625% decrease from the screen resolution, so far less impacting than what happened on Vita.
Of course, my question is worthless if an around 180 PPI level for the screen is still considered good by today's standards, and I'm also eager to hear your opinion on the matter
Slight differences in resolution are terrible for scaling. The only thing that you can scale and have it look nice is when the bigger resolution is an integer multiple of the smaller one. On a 1024x600 screen, you'd have to go all the way down to 512x300 to get a good scaling factor.
Heckler456
Banned
I think "gimmick" in gaming parlance usually has a negative connotation, and that it's almost inherently implied to be "a useless feature". That's not what this is.
You do realize that almost no smarphone plays 3D games at native res, right? If you think there's a single phone playing 1080p, 1440p, or 4k 3D games I have news for you...
The reason choice wouldn't be there is because it's risky. Nintendo would have to make two form factors and then hope they can guess the sales of each so they don't have too many lying around, unsold.
I really don't think, given that people are more and more used to phablets, that a 6-7" hand held would be too scary for them or for customers. One size - done and dusted. 'M guessing they released the 3DS XL as a response to the larger phones coming to market.
01DragonFly
Member
toddhunter
Member
I like the way mobile is thrown in there as some sort of minor non-game related thing.
I doubt Nintendo really care how well the nx does at this point. They'll get it out there, release a few marios and have some laughs.
Meanwhile they'll continue to focus on their real core business.
Fourth Storm
Member
I am not putting any money down on the screen size (especially as specs could have changed since the report), but I do think there is a chance that Hiroshi Hayase is basing his analysis on industry contacts. Last line of the WSJ article talking about it:
Takashi Mochizuki said:
Another good point. I think it's pretty clear that "SD" needn't exclusively be used to describe 480i in most people's everyday conversation. We can ask Huenry on Twitter. I have a feeling he won't tell us, but we can ask!
You think Nintendo can match the revenue from dedicated hardware and their full price games on mobile?
I remember someone saying Pokemon Go, one of the most successful mobile games ever, would only make about as much as a mainline entry? At least for the first couple of months. We don't know what kind of staying power it will have though.
toddhunter
Member
Easily given you factor in the cost to get the games out there. Even then, revenue doesn't tell much of a picture.
They may never have as big of a hit, but they could have 200 smaller hits to make up the difference.
I am not putting any money down on the screen size (especially as specs could have changed since the report), but I do think there is a chance that Hiroshi Hayase is basing his analysis on industry contacts. Last line of the WSJ article talking about it:
Another good point. I think it's pretty clear that "SD" needn't exclusively be used to describe 480i in most people's everyday conversation. We can ask Huenry on Twitter. I have a feeling he won't tell us, but we can ask!
It was based on some report from Sharp about panel shipments, and it should be noted that the size range is a perfect match for 3DS screen sizes. It also got the year of release wrong.
If we accept that Huenry is making an NX game, then we must also accept that there is no power boost in dock mode and that it'll just upscale from 480p or 540p. Do you really see Nintendo going backwards and abandoning HD for a generation?
Dark Cloud
Member
Safest? Lol, What is "safe" about a hybrid system, when so far it's reported to be their only system instead of two systems (handheld and console separate)?
I have a feeling NX will once again use Miiverse integration. It will be very interesting to see what sort of enhancements it'll bring.
Dark Cloud
Member
It's going to use Miiverse and My Nintendo account will tie in. I just want to see better Miiverse integration and I want to see everything revealed for My Nintendo too because right now My Nintendo feels lame.
It all depends on the actual device(s) and the focus of development. If the NX can offer affordable portable gaming with a wide appeal, then you have sold a potential Nintendo console to people who might not have otherwise bought one. At the very least they have another successful handheld (taking liberties with speculation here, but I feel safe in assuming that a Pascal-based handheld from Ninty will not sell poorly.) At most, they have a platform that also drives development from console-centric teams, which will also by default become handheld teams.
It's safe because they are potentially targeting two markets with one device, and this lets non-handheld developers in on that market by default.
Think about that from a developer's perspective. A Nintendo platform that makes your console games handheld games as well. I honestly think people are downplaying that possibility a lot. Every single PC and console dev out there that targets those markets might have an option to release their full games on a platform that is also a handheld with a (purportedly) good price point. From a company with famous name recognition.
I see this thing going really big if it can do what modest speculation suggests: near XB1 performance docked and a 540p downscaled portable version of that on the go for good value.
That's insane. There is no market that doesn't target except for high-end enthusiast elitists who care nothing for portable gaming, and that is not a terribly large market.
If it's what it seems to be, it's super safe and really smart.
gamerMan
Member
I don't see how this is a "new way of playing games" or how the "NX is neither the successor to the Wii U nor to the 3DS."
Also this product goes against Iwata's statement: "What we mean by integrating platforms is not integrating handhelds devices and home consoles to make only one machine."
It's safe because it doesn't really add anything new to how we play. It just makes it more convenient. It's what everybody expected. There literally is no surprise. I am sure it will sell better than the Wii U but it's not going to reach the Wii market because it is super safe.
It suffers from the same problem as the Wii U. Not everybody wants to take their system on the go. For me, I am just not excited to play Zelda on a little low res 5 inch screen. That's an experience I want to play on the big screen at 1080P 60FPS. Because it's portable, the console experience will be sacrificed to allow you to take it on the go.
Prevolition
Member
gamerMan... NX hasn't been unveiled by Nintendo yet. Wait until then to judge the console as being a safe expected failure for you.
I have really thought about this as the culmination of all nintendo past systems , think about it the detachable controllers could be used as wiimotes, the screen could be put in portrait mode to rearrenge de controllers in a(3)ds fashion, conecting it to a tv gives the ability to funcion as the wii u , single system multiplayer on the go, all nintendo software could be easily ported to this device,the specs appear to be pretty good , and it is portable how cool is that!!.
Keep in mind that we don't really know yet. I'll wait for an official announcement before I decide on anything.
I think this is EXACTLY how Nintendo is approaching it. Combine all their considerable dev talent into one platform that does what all of their platforms have done. It will most likely fall behind in pure home console power, but I believe this factor matters the least if we assume that it will at least perform adequately enough on the big screen to be considered "current gen."
Leona Lewis
Banned
Claude Augario
Member
Assuming that the Eurogamer rumors and everything surrounding them are true - NX is an ecosystem, not a singular device, and a lot of people are forgetting this. This "hybrid" device might be real but it's not going to be the only thing you can buy NX games to play on - there's no way I see the NX launching without a stationary console option.
calc84maniac
Member
How do you know that Zelda won't run at 1080P 60FPS on the big screen?
Yes, i undestand that a certain level of compromise has to be made in order to make it portable ,thats the reason i was against the hybrid idea but it looks like nintendo got one heck of a deal with Nvidia (presumably out of the need of a win in the console sector)
making the compromise needed not as harsh.
That's the rub. I think it will because I see no reason why it can't when power and cooling aren't issues. Power is easy at home. Cooling is a bit trickier. Putting a fan in a portable device (for the purposes of operating only when docked) is something we have no real frame of reference for, as far as I know.
But for this experiment to work, I DO think Nintendo needs a home experience that is at least within spitting range of the low end of current gen. I am, perhaps too optimistically, believing that they will achieve that.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
So we're all in agreement that this is a handheld with an Nvidia chip. I'm seeing a couple of guys on twitter who have no inside sources push this narrative where Rogers/Eurogamer/Wall Street Journal are actively lying to us and that the NX is actually an AMD-powered PS4-teired console because god forbid someone else make processors for mah video games.
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