Starchasing
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Its more convenient and it would also act as a charger.
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Eurogamer: NX = portable w/ carts, detachable controllers, Tegra, TV Out, no BC, Sept
- Thread starter Wollan
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Its more convenient and it would also act as a charger.
Maybe the dock is more convenient for people to just slot it in instead of connecting the hmdi cable and power lead.
I hope if Nintendo does not have extra power in the dock they at least make the nx capable to use an extra power dock that they could use in the future.
This would tell me two things:
1) the "dock" is the size of the console, like the 3DS one. It's just a charger where you put the console when you want to play on the TV.
2) Nintendo is finally selling their portable consoles with a charger again lol
In this case though, i wouldn't even consider it to be a hybrid. It would just be a very powerful and modern portable console than can output to a TV. You just use this dock because it's more convenient (since it holds and charges it while you play), but i don't even see the point in mentioning it.
Same.
Graphics Horse
Member
With a 16:9 screen it would be even closer.
The fire hd6 is a really good size for gaming on and the overall size is about the same as a 3dsxl. I reckon Nintendo is looking to get it about this size with the control parts included.
malboroking
Banned
I agree, if you haven't read at least 1000 posts railing against achievement than I don't know what to say. Every trophy/achievement thread they come out of the woodwork talking about how they ruined gaming and how you're an idiot if you like achievements.
"Research firm" means as much as an analyst prediction. It's an educated guess. Alsi, look at the EG's mockup:
That's not going to work too well with a tiny 3.1" screen. I also love how we're taking every since person who said that it's a handheld as being a legit leaker now. We also can't be sure that this dev is talking about NX. 540p isn't even HD.
If there really is a 3.1" NX though we can be certain of one thing: It's much weaker than Wii U. There would be too many constraints at that point and we'd be looking at a 1 SM GPU running at 100-200MHz, or 51-102 GFLOPS.
"Between 3.1" and 5". Nobody ever said it would have a 3.1 sku, which would be foolish to even assume considering that the original 3DS was 3.5" and the new is 4".
But 5" makes sense, and a 540p resolution would be a good match for that size. He made the connection with what that indie dev said about fitting SD/HD assets in a game for a "super secret console". Assuming that he was actually talking about the NX, what's the point of having SD assets if the screen is HD?
Yeah, about the dock...I've been thinking about another possibility for its usage. So, we know that's where you'll put the screen on, in order to get the game on the TV, possibly (this is speculation) at full clocked processor + venting system to avoid the unit overheat (especially considering how it needs to be handheld for handheld "more").
However, that other tweet from EG's Tom Phillips, the guy who posted the NX's pic of concept...
https://twitter.com/tomphillipsEG/status/757966907542761472
Some people here mocked at him, but, I wonder if it's possible that...
On Wii U, it's the stationary console that sends two signals, one to the TV screen through HDMI and the other through streaming on the gamepad (480p here). The screen on the gamepad can output the exact same screen the TV is outputting, or something else, like menu / options / map / etc.
I can see the possibility NX does this as well...but in reverse. It's the handheld that, while outputting images on its own screen, streams the signal to the dock that, connected to the TV, will show the game (in this case, the signal sent through streaming should be at an higher resolution, and I wonder how much that is fiesable from the handheld, even a seemingly pretty powerful one). Of course, that would be a way to play games that wouldn't allow to use the full power of the device, unlike (if our assumptions are correct) when docked. However, dual screen gameplay would be enabled: this is how Splatoon could work as it does on Wii U, or other titles like Etrian Odyssey where the bottom of the screen is very relevant.
Again, I wonder if such a thing is fiesable in this context.
However, that other tweet from EG's Tom Phillips, the guy who posted the NX's pic of concept...
https://twitter.com/tomphillipsEG/status/757966907542761472
Some people here mocked at him, but, I wonder if it's possible that...
On Wii U, it's the stationary console that sends two signals, one to the TV screen through HDMI and the other through streaming on the gamepad (480p here). The screen on the gamepad can output the exact same screen the TV is outputting, or something else, like menu / options / map / etc.
I can see the possibility NX does this as well...but in reverse. It's the handheld that, while outputting images on its own screen, streams the signal to the dock that, connected to the TV, will show the game (in this case, the signal sent through streaming should be at an higher resolution, and I wonder how much that is fiesable from the handheld, even a seemingly pretty powerful one). Of course, that would be a way to play games that wouldn't allow to use the full power of the device, unlike (if our assumptions are correct) when docked. However, dual screen gameplay would be enabled: this is how Splatoon could work as it does on Wii U, or other titles like Etrian Odyssey where the bottom of the screen is very relevant.
Again, I wonder if such a thing is fiesable in this context.
People saying "a weak console would not get third parties!" need to realize that third parties are not going for Nintendo anyway when they have 3 other platforms they need to deal with, on top of NEO/Scorpio upgrades.
I think nintendo should be making NX on the grounds that it is a handheld that is a successor to both the 3DS and the Wii U, and come out with a 500gflop monster. With pascal architecture, that's going to be significantly more powerful than Wii U by default(not even counting that maxwell would be stronger than Wii U as well) , keeps power down and still allows handheld form factor so handheld devs and console devs can live together in their ecosystem for 149 or 199. Efficiency over following what everyone else is doing
750ti generally loses to PS4. The CPU is what brings it above the PS4 in certain situations(not all).
I think nintendo should be making NX on the grounds that it is a handheld that is a successor to both the 3DS and the Wii U, and come out with a 500gflop monster. With pascal architecture, that's going to be significantly more powerful than Wii U by default(not even counting that maxwell would be stronger than Wii U as well) , keeps power down and still allows handheld form factor so handheld devs and console devs can live together in their ecosystem for 149 or 199. Efficiency over following what everyone else is doing
750ti generally loses to PS4. The CPU is what brings it above the PS4 in certain situations(not all).
Yup, and I'd imagine that if VR gets anywhere, it'll be with split motion controllers in order to maximise the link between physical movement and interaction. An evolved Wiimote/nunchuck-esque arrangement sounds ideal for what NX is puported to be and I'd definitely buy another COD (and in a perfect world, something like Deus Ex) if IR aiming continued to be a feature, though probably not if it meant going back to analogue controls.
Also, I really hope the NX gets at least one fully-featured version of FIFA, because that and COD are my 'lazy pick up and play' gaming, even on Wii U. Unfortunately, there's not much history of an audience for it on Nintendo consoles.
Graphics Horse
Member
If it is anything like the device Eurogamer describes, the control parts will be around 1.4 inch wide either side, similar to the control areas of DS, 3DS and the Wii remote. That wouldn't leave room for even a 4inch screen at 16:9. I guess we can't totally rule out a non 16:9 screen though, but I think we should be thinking tablet sizes when assembled, not phone sizes. (And I know fhd6 isn't a phone
)casey_contra
Member
I remember this for sure. I think it'll be so worth it if it connects to MyNintendo. Doing stuff in-game to get coins to get discounts on other games in which I can do stuff in-game to get even more discounts? Sign me up!
Fourth Storm
Member
I know what a research firm is, thanks. I'll admit that it's hard to say what is an educated guess in their report and what is based on information leaked from component suppliers. Still, WSJ ran with it and so far it looks like they were right. Not sure why you're focusing on the low end of that range.
540p isn't HD. Nobody said that. 540p would presumably be why he needs "SD" assets in addition to the HD set. Any other ideas on what super secret platform might require both SD and HD assets?
The NX doesn't need to be pocketable, just portable.
It makes no sense to build a device using one of the most power hungry mobile chips and shrinking it to 3DS XL size, giving it a crap screen and shit for battery life. You can't call that a hybrid just because you put TV outputs on it. It should be closer to the size of a Wii U gamepad. Those who want more portable can keep using their 3DS.
And what would be the point of detachable controller if it's a 3 inch screen? Are we gonna waggle a mini wiimote in front of a 3 inch screen?
It makes no sense to build a device using one of the most power hungry mobile chips and shrinking it to 3DS XL size, giving it a crap screen and shit for battery life. You can't call that a hybrid just because you put TV outputs on it. It should be closer to the size of a Wii U gamepad. Those who want more portable can keep using their 3DS.
And what would be the point of detachable controller if it's a 3 inch screen? Are we gonna waggle a mini wiimote in front of a 3 inch screen?
The biggest prospect I can see is this console cleaning up with the Japanese market. The Vita and 3DS are on life support and this gives the current PS4 exclusive games a other avenue to sell too.
For all that worth, I am against them, if they're system-wide. Part completionist OCD, but still, I play less games on PS because of this, because I can't stand incomplete trophies on system menu.
I have a second account just for this...
On a privacy side, I also don't like them, but at least it's far better now.
I don't dislike trophies, I even enjoy them, but *in* games, not system-wide.
I doubt Nintendo decisions on the matter come from similar opinions, though.
wonderful103
Member
The ps4 and 3ds are trading blows in Japan. Lol
Fourth Storm
Member
This is another reason why overclocking the processor while docked might add more complexity than it's worth. What you describe would absolutely be possible considering Wii U already sends a signal to both its HDMI controller and the Gamepad encoding/decoding hardware. You'd likely end up with some compression artifacts on your bigscreen, but at least the latency should be comparable to Wii U's. Then, for the cleanest image possible (and also to charge and possibly use the camera function at a wide angle), you could dock the handheld and use the detached controllers sans screen.
I disagree the Wii U Pad size is horrible. Gaming on such a huge device game me hand cramps. With a tablet it's okay as you are touching just a screen. But the Wii U Pad was uncomfortable to hold as you were holding something too wide.
The best bet is to go something between a 5 inch and 6 inch screen. To keep the system even smaller they should have slide out controls like the Xperia Play. This isn't poke table but it's really portable and easy to take with you on a commute as it's around the size of a 3DS XL which would be the perfect size.
5 to 6 inch screen is perfect and everyone is used to this size due to their phablet phones. It is also the perfect size to not scare away handheld gamer audience. The average handheld gamer would be annoyed with carrying around something the size of a Wii U Pad. Finally 540p is perfect. As someone who has a Vita native games look great on it. Remember people happily played COD4 on 360 on HDTVs which was about 540p and had no issues. On a small screen games would look beautiful. Remember this is a gaming main and not primarily a smart device for photography and reading so something sharp is unnecessary.
Thanks Fourth! This is the screen rumor ive been looking for the past few days. I actually said #paging FourthStorm in a couple threads since I knew you'd have it but I guess those pages never reached you. 😂
Yeah, it doesn't make sense to give a system with a powerhouse mobile GPU a 540p display when a $50 budget smartphone has a 720p display.. The price difference has to be minimal at this point (it was $10 between the iPhone6 Plus which has a full 1080p display and the iPhone 6 in 2014).
You could probably always have the hardware upscale from 540p to a 720p internal display while in portable mode playing games. 720p would make it a viable streaming device for watching movies/videos/TV Shows, live streaming content etc.
The XL line is vastly more popular than the small 3DSs, so the only way I can see Nintendo going with a small screen is if they are already planning to release a new XL iteration a year after launch.
And considering the current state Nintendo is in, I can't see them taking chances like that.
And considering the current state Nintendo is in, I can't see them taking chances like that.
If it runs identically when on the go or docked, then the dock is essentially just an HDMI out, right? With no extra crunch. That would keep costs down (but probably disappoint a portion of the audience).
wonderful103
Member
It's not about screen resolution, it's about driving that resolution. Scaling is shittier than driving it natively. Ask the Vita
GhostTrick
Banned
Of course it does make sense. I'm tired of the budget smartphone argument. People needs to realise the issue isn't the display price. It's the hardware required to push pixels. It makes even more sense to give it a 540p screen, because it means it'll be able to push more things, at a decent native res and PPI.
I haven't played with a Vita much, but is it not pocketable? I guess I was under the impression it was no more or less pocketable than like a 3DS XL.
FourthStorm said:
Is 540p sub-HD? It is, right? (Now edited in FourthStorm's reply above and I see I was correct in thinking this.) But even if the screen isn't HD, are different, SD assets needed for everything in a game if outputting on SD rather than HD? I'd thought everything could be in HD even if it's for an SD screen.
I completely agree with you, and I think Miitomo indicated the first volley in this new form of achievements. I expect we'll see more very soon with FE and AC mobile.
Graphics Horse
Member
Exactly People need to realise this is not a 3DS successor, it's a new way of playing games that will surprise people and change their gaming lives, at least according to Nintendo's comments.
The X1 could easily do 720 without any sacrifices having to be made though.
Portable Breath of the Wild is a game changer for sure.
tkscz
Member
Not to mention a better battery life. Games like Pokemon go kill phones fast, think about more complex games running on these "budget" phones, they'd die really damned fast. the 540p screen would save a ton of battery life.
I'd argue the opposite. The last two times they released consoles with new graphics architectures (GC and Wii U) they put out very technically accomplished launch games. They talked about the challenges of HD development with Wii U, but that always struck me as more of a comment on the resources and manpower required to develop games to that kind of standard on the new console, rather than it being a technical challenge.
Well TX1 has a wide range of performance depending on clock speed, and we don't know what TX2 is, so it's hard to talk about a hypothetical NX chip in relation to two moving targets. The possibilities are basically the same as they were a couple of days ago (albeit without the question of what manufacturing process they'd use):
In terms of worst-middle-best case scenarios we're probably looking at the following:
Worst case scenario:
CPU: 4 x A53 @ 1 GHz (3 cores for games, 1 for OS)
GPU: 1 x Pascal SM @ 600 MHz (154 Gflops)
RAM: 2GB LPDDR4, 32 bit interface, 12.8 GB/s
Middle scenario:
CPU: 8 x A53 @ 1 GHz (6 cores for games, 2 for OS)
GPU: 2 x Pascal SM @ 600 MHz (307 Gflops)
RAM: 3-4GB LPDDR4, 64 bit interface, 25.6 GB/s
Best case scenario:
CPU: 8 x A72 @ 750 MHz (all for games, 2 extra A35 cores for OS)
GPU: 3 x Pascal SM @ 500 MHz (384 Gflops)
RAM: 6GB LPDDR4, 128 bit interface, 60 GB/s
All of these assume a <2.5W power draw from the SoC, so we're talking handheld operation with reasonable battery life. If there's a different "docked mode" then in theory you could increase all of those clocks substantially, but that depends on how you plan to keep the chip cooled, which is far from a trivial problem.
In terms of the difference between Pascal and Maxwell, the major difference is just the move to TSMC's 16FF+ manufacturing process, which can be used to create substantially more energy efficient chips, meaning higher clock speeds in the same thermal envelope. Architecturally, there isn't actually all that much different between Maxwell and Pascal, but one change is the improved buffer compression, which Nvidia claims reduces bandwidth requirements by about 17% over Maxwell (which was already a vastly more bandwidth efficient architecture than the GCN 1.1 era tech in PS4 and XBO).
If this system is not HD in both portable and home use then it will be utterly destroyed.
This isn't a 3DS XL+
Non HD gaming is no longer acceptable, not even in portable. If Nintendo can't build a portable tablet size device capable of 720p HD gaming with acceptable battery life then the NX is doomed.
I'm posting this on my 2 year old Shield Tablet with a Tegra K1 that plays PC games in 1080p for 3 hours... It's not that hard.
NeonZ
Member
Even without an extra chipset in the dock, couldn't they intentionally tone down the handheld performance when outside of the dock in order to save battery life? Then when docked or charging it'd perform better due to not having to worry about that, rather than any extra hardware in the dock itself.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Ive seen some games offer a mode where battery life will be enhanced. Kingdom hearts birth by sleep does it.
GhostTrick
Banned
The doomed part makes me think it's sarcasm. Non HD gaming is acceptable in portable. Why would you want 720p on 5 inch when you could get better graphics or framerate at 540p; which also scales amazingly to 1080p rendered at native res ?
5" is still too small for those detachable controllers to work. It only works if it's at least 6" imo. Also, if you're taking the IHS report as more than a guess, it means that 3.1" was at least considered at one point, does it not? That report is speculation and nothing more. I'm also not convinced that the indie dev was talking about NX, and even if he was it's possible that his game was sub-native. 540p isn't even SD in the first place.
With all of this, you're pretty much assuming that LCGeek's comments about the CPU were incorrect? Because all of those options are 50-80% slower than PS4's CPU.
Fourth Storm
Member
No prob! And sorry I missed that--it's been tough keeping up with the multiple threads.
Yeah, it would be the cheapest solution for sure. Just an HDMI controller, power connector, hub for ports, and maybe a couple other miscellaneous things I'm forgetting. Depending on how they design the hardware, they could replace the cheap dock with an SCD perhaps somewhere down the road.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Meh, lot's of time when you get posts like that it's just fanboys ranting and being defensive over a feature their platform lacks that people seem to love on the competition.
No reason not to have them, the other systems have easy options for turning off notifications for them so one never has to see them or think about them if they truly hate them.
The point is that it wouldn't keep the cost down. To make the GPU run faster when on AC would cost exactly 0$, especially when you consider that there's absolutely 0% that they go for anything above half the nominal clock of the GPU in handheld mode for consumption reasons.
Because that compromise is no longer required.
I meant internationally the system is trending down.
The biggest thing swaying me towards "the dock has some additional functionality" is the fact that it's part of the dev kit. In the dev kit wouldn't it be easier to just include a HDMI out(like most dev kits already do?). A dev kit doesn't have to be convenient at all.
Could be way off base admittedly.
GhostTrick
Banned
Of course it is. Do you believe that bandwith is unlimited ? That battery life is unlimited too ?
540p to 720p is like 80% more pixels to push. At 5 inch, the gain is too small compared to the loss in performances. Why not push 80% higher framerate ?
Fourth Storm
Member
Yup, it's not technically "SD" either, although that could just be a small error in Huenry's wording. Your second question is exactly what I was wondering. Maybe someone else can chime in. HD text can be difficult/impossible to read if displayed in SD, but other assets? Not sure.
Hmm. Yeah, another good question. I mean, if the docking station is that cheap a part, why not include it in the dev kit? Maybe there's something else going on there too. But even just displaying in TV mode, accepting USB connections, and stuff like that would need to have the kinks ironed out, so it was probably worth including even if there isn't any additional horsepower there.
If I get 30 FPS in a 1080p game I don't magically get 60 FPS if I halve my resolution. That's not how it works.
And I'm not sure why you're focusing on the high end of the rangfe as if there's no range at all. It's clearly a guess. WSJ runs such reports all the time; they're not presenting it as a leak or something they heard, but rather they're reporting on what a research firm said. Also, notice how that range is perfect match for the 3DS screen size range. There's no way that's a coincidence.
You wouldn't want to use assets made for 480i on 540p, though. You'd want to use HD assets since that's a better fit, especially if it's meant to upscale to 1080p anyway. There's no real benefit to using two different sets of assets for two different resolutions on the same hardware.
Otakumegane
Member
This has to be bull but I dont know enough about PC hardware to know correctly. Why is this if true even a thing.
GhostTrick
Banned
No, it's not how it works, you can be CPU limited. But in a GPU limited scenario, you definitely get more performances. I never said you'd get 60fps, I said you'd get better framerate or better visuals.
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