Sorry guys, not going to read through the whole thread. But what is the expected/if any bump in power?
Sorry guys, not going to read through the whole thread. But what is the expected/if any bump in power?
It's not really expected. But if there are any changes it'll be minor. Don't expect much.
Didn't that tech demo use nurbs for the hair? That was impossible on ps2 iirc, not sure about ps3 but i would say the same apparently it's very resource intensive. Last i knew only final fantasy 15 used it for the hair. Anyways i would love to see some new tech demos at the event, but ones that set realistic expectations of what the system can do and not like the dark sorcerer, deep down, uncharted 4 e3 2014.Tekken as a whole? Yes. Tekken Tag Tournament? Nah.
Soul Calibur on DC was obviously handicapped, by nature of being on the DC (still sold over a million on a sub 9 million lifetime console though), but Soul Calibur 2 for example showed how much appeal the series had (until Soul Calibur 3 shat the bed).
But yes, I am mostly talking about the first few months, because the console was still flying off the shelves before the heavy-hitters arrived.. and it had halted the Dreamcast long before it even hit the shelves. It wasn't simply because it was a new PlayStation, the phrase "I'm waiting for the PS2" increased exponentially when this happened:
I remember even Sega fansites and publications were shitting themselves over it.
Why am I being quoted? lol
I forgot to respond to your post I was going to post about AMD multi teraflop APUs coming
Quoteception.
If anything changed, keep your expectations in check.
If anything changed, keep your expectations in check.
To be clear does this mean changes from Jaguar/4.2TF and they would be relatively small?
If anything changed, keep your expectations in check.
You caused this now you say keep expectations in check lol
but on another note why not say exactly what you heard since it's only a few weeks before we know if the changes will happen or not.
PCs do get hold back by older PCs.
Still that is not much of a problem since PC devs don't really push hardware as much anymore.
The min spec for PCs games is not that high compare to hardware that out there .
You have to remember that a 5 year old PC have a better CPUs than what in these systems .
Why do you keep saying that's what Sony and MS are doing like its a fact? We know nothing about their future plan beside Spencer hinted with beyond genration marketing line.
As far as we know, they all belong to their generation "family". Sony have said many time Neo share the same life cycle with PS4.
Hell, I'm not even sure MS is 100% "rolling generation". We have zero idea these premium console will do, they could be a huge failure.
When Sony market PS5 as next generation with some generation leap exclusives, I bet MS will market Scorpio 2 as next generation too.
Because enhance version of your enhance console feel a lot less exciting than next gen.
I guess that would be obvious.
But at this point its just not going to have any major changes anyway, which is what i was trying to argue earlier in the thread. Its generally pointless to get hyped up over
To me, a rolling generation would mean that a new system will come out but have backward compatibility with the older gen (ps4/xb1) games and a developer has a choice to make it available for the family lower end systems if they wanted to. Basically exclusive games for that console but the tech within the console, the OS, the features are all the same. When we have generation changes, we always have a new OS, devs have to use new tools, new controllers, etc... Rolling generation to me means that you have mostly compatibility within the ecosystem, a spec bump, and devs can have choice of support.
I say that what MS and Sony are doing is the same thing as a fact. Everything that is known is that they are building a family of products (just as you say) that run the same games as their predecessors going forward. Those are "facts" with the information that is given to us.
To me, a rolling generation would mean that a new system will come out but have backward compatibility with the older gen (ps4/xb1) games and a developer has a choice to make it available for the family lower end systems if they wanted to. Basically exclusive games for that console but the tech within the console, the OS, the features are all the same. When we have generation changes, we always have a new OS, devs have to use new tools, new controllers, etc... Rolling generation to me means that you have mostly compatibility within the ecosystem, a spec bump, and devs can have choice of support.
You're misrepresenting what people were saying.No, but people are still saying that power is important to them and they want Neo as close as possible to the Scorpio because.
And people are still trying to say that power difference never mattered at all.
You would think. I haven't seen Patrick mention specs so would like to clarify what base any changes would be from.
I really hope Sony doesnt react to MS's bait and increase the power because that would only increase the price. Right now a 4.2 Tflop console is looking good for a $399 2016 release, but anything more could either increase that to $499 or push it back to 2017.
Sony's biggest advantage here is that they would have beaten Microsoft to the market by a full year. No matter how powerful the Scorpio is, people who want to play Battlefield 1 at 1080p 60 fps, CoD at 1440p 60 fps, Mass Effect at 60 fps, Uncharted 4 at 60 fps, FFXV at 60 fps would've already bought the Neo by then.
I am sure some MS fans would wait it out but looking at the MS userbase, those are not people Sony should be concerned about anyway.
A 4.2 Tflop console is just fine for the rest of this gen. 99% of PS4 games already run at 1080p 30 fps. They should just focus on making them run at 60 fps and maybe fix some of those AA and AF issues. No need to worry about 4k when barely anyone even has 4k.
I'm now imagining a scenario where neither of these consoles actually come out, because both companies are continually delaying their product to avoid releasing a weaker machine ever again.
A console cold war.
I'm now imagining a scenario where neither of these consoles actually come out, because both companies are continually delaying their product to avoid releasing a weaker machine ever again.
A console cold war.
I really hope Sony doesnt react to MS's bait and increase the power because that would only increase the price. Right now a 4.2 Tflop console is looking good for a $399 2016 release, but anything more could either increase that to $499 or push it back to 2017.
Sony's biggest advantage here is that they would have beaten Microsoft to the market by a full year. No matter how powerful the Scorpio is, people who want to play Battlefield 1 at 1080p 60 fps, CoD at 1440p 60 fps, Mass Effect at 60 fps, Uncharted 4 at 60 fps, FFXV at 60 fps would've already bought the Neo by then.
I am sure some MS fans would wait it out but looking at the MS userbase, those are not people Sony should be concerned about anyway.
A 4.2 Tflop console is just fine for the rest of this gen. 99% of PS4 games already run at 1080p 30 fps. They should just focus on making them run at 60 fps and maybe fix some of those AA and AF issues. No need to worry about 4k when barely anyone even has 4k.
I'm pretty sure not to you, but to everyone else that is the definition of a "rolling generation".
Why not just treat the entry ps4 as the medium grade graphics equivalent of a slider?
Realistically the only things at this point of time Sony could do without sending the console a year back are change in clock speed or replacement of RAM module with a better one in the same position. Upgrading the chips would require taping out again (6-9 months at least) plus redoing motherboard, testing, certification (3-6 months).
4.2 tflops GPU, 2.1 GHZ Jaguar CPU, 218GB BW, 8GB GDDR5 RAM.
except 60fps are still not very likely for its limited bandwidth as I read on beyond3d. Keep in mind that PS4 share its bandwith with the cpu also. Most the neo can provide is cosmetic upgrade and more solid frame rate. But I am sure Mark Cerny is on this project and he'll should know what to do.
RAM bandwidth is what I think it most likely to improve given their goals for the machine. Maybe a small upclock to the CPU and/or GPU as well but I think we'll see closer to 250 Gb/s bandwidth.except 60fps are still not very likely for its limited bandwidth as I read on beyond3d. Keep in mind that PS4 share its bandwith with the cpu also. Most the neo can provide is cosmetic upgrade and more solid frame rate. But I am sure Mark Cerny is on this project and he'll should know what to do.
Megadrive not backwards compatible to master system (had to buy an adapter)We are 3 years into this generation (I'll exclude WiiU) and we still getting remasters/ports od last gen titles because lack of BC.
Well, games like BLOPS 3 run at 1080p 60 fps on PS4 already so it's not like it cant be done. I am sure its not as simple as i am making it out to be, but you have 18 extra CUs running at 900 mhz instead of 800, CPU running at 2.1 Ghz instead of 1.6 and memory bandwidth at 230 instead of 176 Gbps. Maybe they cant brute force it to run at 60 fps but there is enough horsepower in the GPU alone for devs to get creative and double the framerate.
that said, they might just take the easy route and make it prettier. after all, if sony is showing this off, showing the same game running at 60 fps wont impress a lot of people especially the casuals. they will need a prettier game to convince people to buy this thing.
RAM bandwidth is what I think it most likely to improve given their goals for the machine. Maybe a small upclock to the CPU and/or GPU as well but I think we'll see closer to 250 Gb/s bandwidth.
Wait, so Raven Ridge is only 35W with four Zen cores and a 12CU GPU? That sorta changes everything, doesn't it? It needs more CUs, obviously, but it seems like they have plenty of thermal overhead here.This just popped up.
So. What are the odds that Scorpio / Neo will be Raven Ridge based (custom APU of course).
What is it you like about console gaming that you fear you would lose here?If they go full FC, that's when I stop being an early adopter and go heavy into PC gaming (the reason I don't right now, is because I prefer console gaming, but that move will be enough to make me switch). Wait a few years to pick up a console on the cheap and play through the exclusives.
Is it this? There won't be any need to "push" the new hardware, because it's still the same ecosystem. You don't need to quickly establish a critical mass of users, because you already did that some years back. Now you just make new hardware available, and users will buy it when they decide it's time. If it takes a while for the bulk of the user base to transition to the newer hardware, no matter, because you're selling them the same software either way.If you want to launch a new product when sales of the old one are dying down, it makes sense to make the new one more appealing and differentiate it from the old one as much as possible. A new console with BC (that'll still support games that may only be made for the older console) but with exclusive games that are not held back by the older console is going to do better and more appealing to people than a console that is being held back/has no exclusives.
That'a effectively what it is now. PS4.5 will be High settings instead. By the time PS5 drops, PS4.5 will be running the Medium PC settings, and PS4 will run Low.Why not just treat the entry ps4 as the medium grade graphics equivalent of a slider?
1) You're looking at a response to someone who asked what would make more money. Which is why I mentioned sales for the new hardware. I was saying it's not a clear cut case of what would make more money, especially if the new system had BC.IWhat is it you like about console gaming that you fear you would lose here?
Is it this? There won't be any need to "push" the new hardware, because it's still the same ecosystem. You don't need to quickly establish a critical mass of users, because you already did that some years back. Now you just make new hardware available, and users will buy it when they decide it's time. If it takes a while for the bulk of the user base to transition to the newer hardware, no matter, because you're selling them the same software either way.
This is also good for users, because now you can buy and play your next-gen games before you buy your next-gen hardware. When CoD launches for PS5 in 2019, you'll be able to buy it and play it on your PS4. Then when you do finally drop the coin for the PS5 — maybe after a price drop — the very same game now gets a next-gen makeover.
It would be so weird if they released it with 8GB of RAM. The only way that would make sense is if they're including a separate pool of RAM for the OS to use.4.2 tflops GPU, 2.1 GHZ Jaguar CPU, 218GB BW, 8GB GDDR5 RAM.
It would be so weird if they released it with 8GB of RAM. The only way that would make sense is if they're including a separate pool of RAM for the OS to use.
I think you guys are confusing yourselves with talk of backwards and forwards compatibility. There's just compatibility now. Listen to Jack, as he seems to know what he's talking about. Yes, there are hardware-specific tweaks devs will be doing and that's why we're getting one hardware configuration every three years, rather than getting several per year like on PC but apart from that, it's all the same code. You won't be porting PS5 games to PS4 any more than you port Neo games to PS4; it's literally the same game, running on the same operating system, using the same APIs, with some hardware-specific tuning.
PS5 and beyond will still be running Orbis OS just newer versions of it and PS4 and PS4.5 will both be updated to run the current OS as well. House said a given console can expect 9+ years of support, which tells us PS4 should be getting OS updates until at least 2022, and PS4.5 will be getting OS updates until at least 2025. A developer will write one game for "PlayStation," after choosing a minimum target for both OS and hardware. If a developer working on a c. 2031 game feels that getting it to run on a PS4 will compromise their vision for the game, then they'll target PS4.5 or maybe even PS6 as minspec instead. It just depends on what they're trying to accomplish, and the audience they hope to reach. All engineering is a series of compromises, after all.
Orbis OS is based on FreeBSD, which has been around for more than 20 years, and is derived directly from Unix, which has been around for more than 40. There's no need to toss everything out just because some new hardware came along. Unix really good stuff, and it's designed to grow with the times while isolating developers from hardware vagaries, which is why we're still using it four decades on.
I suspect this is also why we're seeing so many remasters for PS4. Once they get it up and running on PS4, they'll be able to keep selling that same version pretty much indefinitely. They might need to patch it every three years, or they might not.
Wait, so Raven Ridge is only 35W with four Zen cores and a 12CU GPU? That sorta changes everything, doesn't it? It needs more CUs, obviously, but it seems like they have plenty of thermal overhead here.
What is it you like about console gaming that you fear you would lose here?
Is it this? There won't be any need to "push" the new hardware, because it's still the same ecosystem. You don't need to quickly establish a critical mass of users, because you already did that some years back. Now you just make new hardware available, and users will buy it when they decide it's time. If it takes a while for the bulk of the user base to transition to the newer hardware, no matter, because you're selling them the same software either way.
This is also good for users, because now you can buy and play your next-gen games before you buy your next-gen hardware. When CoD launches for PS5 in 2019, you'll be able to buy it and play it on your PS4. Then when you do finally drop the coin for the PS5 maybe after a price drop the very same game now gets a next-gen makeover.
That'a effectively what it is now. PS4.5 will be High settings instead. By the time PS5 drops, PS4.5 will be running the Medium PC settings, and PS4 will run Low.
I really hope Sony doesnt react to MS's bait and increase the power because that would only increase the price. Right now a 4.2 Tflop console is looking good for a $399 2016 release, but anything more could either increase that to $499 or push it back to 2017.
Sony's biggest advantage here is that they would have beaten Microsoft to the market by a full year. No matter how powerful the Scorpio is, people who want to play Battlefield 1 at 1080p 60 fps, CoD at 1440p 60 fps, Mass Effect at 60 fps, Uncharted 4 at 60 fps, FFXV at 60 fps would've already bought the Neo by then.
I am sure some MS fans would wait it out but looking at the MS userbase, those are not people Sony should be concerned about anyway.
A 4.2 Tflop console is just fine for the rest of this gen. 99% of PS4 games already run at 1080p 30 fps. They should just focus on making them run at 60 fps and maybe fix some of those AA and AF issues. No need to worry about 4k when barely anyone even has 4k.
Listen to this man. This is where all 3 console makers are going.
The only fact I'm aware of is that the neo is meant to prevent players from moving to pc mid generation and that PlayStation still moves in generations. These are the only official statements I'm aware of and they fit to what Sony is doing.I say that what MS and Sony are doing is the same thing as a fact. Everything that is known is that they are building a family of products (just as you say) that run the same games as their predecessors going forward. Those are "facts" with the information that is given to us.
To me, a rolling generation would mean that a new system will come out but have backward compatibility with the older gen (ps4/xb1) games and a developer has a choice to make it available for the family lower end systems if they wanted to. Basically exclusive games for that console but the tech within the console, the OS, the features are all the same. When we have generation changes, we always have a new OS, devs have to use new tools, new controllers, etc... Rolling generation to me means that you have mostly compatibility within the ecosystem, a spec bump, and devs can have choice of support.
I really hope Sony doesnt react to MS's bait and increase the power because that would only increase the price. Right now a 4.2 Tflop console is looking good for a $399 2016 release, but anything more could either increase that to $499 or push it back to 2017.
Sony's biggest advantage here is that they would have beaten Microsoft to the market by a full year. No matter how powerful the Scorpio is, people who want to play Battlefield 1 at 1080p 60 fps, CoD at 1440p 60 fps, Mass Effect at 60 fps, Uncharted 4 at 60 fps, FFXV at 60 fps would've already bought the Neo by then.
I am sure some MS fans would wait it out but looking at the MS userbase, those are not people Sony should be concerned about anyway.
A 4.2 Tflop console is just fine for the rest of this gen. 99% of PS4 games already run at 1080p 30 fps. They should just focus on making them run at 60 fps and maybe fix some of those AA and AF issues. No need to worry about 4k when barely anyone even has 4k.
There won't be any need to "push" the new hardware, because it's still the same ecosystem. You don't need to quickly establish a critical mass of users, because you already did that some years back. Now you just make new hardware available, and users will buy it when they decide it's time. If it takes a while for the bulk of the user base to transition to the newer hardware, no matter, because you're selling them the same software either way.
This is probably the last time this will ever matter, if at all, all things considered.
Due to this
We'll have to see what happens, I guess. Even if we stay in the same eco-system, there will still be major upgrades at some point, thanks to major shifts in technological development. Think of HBM2 memory vs. GDDR5, for example. The one console manufacturer being able to exploit this new possibilities first - and offer it for a decent price - will always have a clear advantage towards the followers. That said, if things continue the way they are know, I suppose Sony and MS will take turns in being the one with the most powerful hardware.
Agreed.I really hope Sony doesnt react to MS's bait and increase the power because that would only increase the price. Right now a 4.2 Tflop console is looking good for a $399 2016 release, but anything more could either increase that to $499 or push it back to 2017.
Sony's biggest advantage here is that they would have beaten Microsoft to the market by a full year. No matter how powerful the Scorpio is, people who want to play Battlefield 1 at 1080p 60 fps, CoD at 1440p 60 fps, Mass Effect at 60 fps, Uncharted 4 at 60 fps, FFXV at 60 fps would've already bought the Neo by then.
I am sure some MS fans would wait it out but looking at the MS userbase, those are not people Sony should be concerned about anyway.
A 4.2 Tflop console is just fine for the rest of this gen. 99% of PS4 games already run at 1080p 30 fps. They should just focus on making them run at 60 fps and maybe fix some of those AA and AF issues. No need to worry about 4k when barely anyone even has 4k.
This is probably the last time this will ever matter, if at all, all things considered.
Due to this
The problem might be slow adoption rate.
Yes, you don't need to have fast install base because your system include the install base of 2-3 hardware configurations.
But that means you will have to stay "cross gen" phase longer. ( yes, scale like PC game is still cross gen to me)
In a normal console generation, thanks to clean break, devs can adapt new tech faster, console manufacture will take more risk on new tech without worry about compabilidy.
Thats the one of the appeal of console for me.