PeregrinSe7en
Member
what has MS done to get back any goodwill back they lost outside the us/uk?
it's still viewed as an "america box" by the rest of the world
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Let's Discuss: Now that both PS4 pro and Xbox Scorpio specs are out...
- Thread starter Gunslinger
- Start date
what has MS done to get back any goodwill back they lost outside the us/uk?
it's still viewed as an "america box" by the rest of the world
Common sense.
Lion Heart
Banned
Cyberheater must be fucking with us....
They really should work on this. I know Japan is basically a lost cause, but is there a chance they can improve their stance in Europe?
exmachina64
Banned
There will potentially be a gulf of twenty million sold consoles between the PS4 and X1 by the end of the year. It doesn't really matter if people buy the PS4/P for the same games or exclusives as long as it continues to sell better.
Unfortunately for Microsoft, the leadership answers to the shareholders. Their console sales are lagging, they don't have a VR solution, they don't have a product to go head-to-head with the PS4 Pro, the Halo franchise is falling behind other FPS franchises and they invest too much money in games that underperform (Quantum Break).
Combine that with Windows 10 massively missing its target, Windows Phone is nonexistent, UWP didn't catch on, and the Windows Store is dead.
"Investing in their ecosystem" won't hold off the shareholders forever and doesn't really speak as to whether their plan will pay off.
Sangetsu-II
Member
It's next gen, it won't have the One Branding.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Do you we have any idea on the flops difference between Polaris and Vega? The difference could be massive depending on how efficient the new architecture is right?
Indeed we can quess at the specs but it annoys me the thread that is becuase their are no Spec for Sco
Ram
CPU
GPU
ECT
Features
OS UI
Salty Hippo
Member
No I didn't. They did a decent push in the start of the generation. I'm talking about right now. Their last two E3s have been super disappointing in terms of new game announcements. Outside of the HaloGearsForza trinity we only got Sea of Thieves (share world), ReCore (low budget), State of Decay (zombie survival) and timed exclusive Dead Rising 4 which doesn't really count. Do you actually think that's impressive? If you look closely at these three (I'll say it again, THREE) games, you can see that two of them are going after models that sell a lot (shared world, survival) and one is a great concept hostage to a super small budget, being released soon most likely in a rough state.
It's really not that hard.
Are for your revivals... Rare Replay is a collection, not a revival. And Phantom Dust is in limbo. Halo Wars 2 is Halo. Not great examples.
Why not be a little more bold and make a new AoE or RoN instead of Halo Wars? Because they have become extremely risk averse after getting beat up by Sony this generation. When that beat up should have actually pushed them in the opposite direction.
I have a gaming PC and it matters to me. The more they compete with Sony by making more games the more I can play those games on my PC.
They are not working to do better that's for sure.
Some current Tier 1 countries will be tier 2 with Scorpio.
Look Microsoft Spain, launching their last games without Castilian Spanish dub... they are doing awful here, with moves like this the thing is going to get worse and worse.
PeregrinSe7en
Member
they've tried but the rest of europe is too entrenched with the playstation brand.
look at a country like germany where the ratio of console sales are ironically 4:1
i think the xbox brand has a greater influence in central/south america
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
At this point. Console generations no longer exist. But I take your point. I can see MS gaining some market share but Sony will still be king.
It seems that MS doesn't really care about markets outside of US and the UK which is a pity.
"State of the art" Scorpio will not be cheap at all
Slight graphic improvements alone are nice but aren't disruptive enough to put MS back in a leading position. I think there are a handful of things they could do that, in sum, would increase their chances of getting back into a good position in the console race and give them momentum going into next gen.
- Continue adding more BC titles and bring those to PC
- Get more publishers in on Play Anywhere
- Keep highlighting UHD Blu-ray functionality
- Support both Vive and Oculus and play up the high-fidelity VR angle
- Support more mods and the modding community
- Allow it to be used as a real Windows 10 machine
For that last one, my thinking is they could put a "Complete Windows 10 experience" mode in the settings somewhere that once enabled would allow people do what they want with the hardware. They could enable a lock on that setting so Parents could control how the console is used.
I know the argument that allowing it to be a full Windows 10 machine conflicts with their Windows Store goals because of Steam, GoG, etc., but I think that could be countered over time with more exclusives to the Windows Store, more competitive digital incentives and sales on games, music, movies/tv, and apps, hardware accessory sales, and Live subs (change this to mean free games every month, no lock on MP).
They really need to think beyond the short window of 2-3 years they'll have before PS5 drops and instead make a bold statement with Scorpio about what to expect from Xbox going forward that really sets it apart.
- Continue adding more BC titles and bring those to PC
- Get more publishers in on Play Anywhere
- Keep highlighting UHD Blu-ray functionality
- Support both Vive and Oculus and play up the high-fidelity VR angle
- Support more mods and the modding community
- Allow it to be used as a real Windows 10 machine
For that last one, my thinking is they could put a "Complete Windows 10 experience" mode in the settings somewhere that once enabled would allow people do what they want with the hardware. They could enable a lock on that setting so Parents could control how the console is used.
I know the argument that allowing it to be a full Windows 10 machine conflicts with their Windows Store goals because of Steam, GoG, etc., but I think that could be countered over time with more exclusives to the Windows Store, more competitive digital incentives and sales on games, music, movies/tv, and apps, hardware accessory sales, and Live subs (change this to mean free games every month, no lock on MP).
They really need to think beyond the short window of 2-3 years they'll have before PS5 drops and instead make a bold statement with Scorpio about what to expect from Xbox going forward that really sets it apart.
The PC that is running ROTTR at max settings is probably 4TF more than PS4 Pro & have a better CPU but do you see that massive advantage that you're talking about?
Here is a benchmark for ROTTR at 4K & it's not even max settings
http://www.legitreviews.com/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-pc-game-benchmarks_178739/3
exmachina64
Banned
I wouldn't bet on it.
There is no magic. Developers are simply afforded more of a performance budget to better handle compromises. Sadly you don't get to have Battlefield 1 in native 4K at a smooth 60 frames per second with all the details cranked to max. Something has to give. It's simply less with Scorpio over Neo.
At the end of the day games will look and perform better. How well these consoles are received will guide the industry in the future. That is the most interesting part.
At the end of the day games will look and perform better. How well these consoles are received will guide the industry in the future. That is the most interesting part.
Huh? Their console sales are lagging compared to the PS4 but are they lagging compared to the 360 (which they consider a success)? Last I looked (which admittedly hasn't been a while), the XBO is outpacing the 360 while being profitable per console. The PS4 is a sales monster that's selling faster than the PS2 did, not really sure any shareholder would expect any console to match that. They must have some kind of VR solution in the works or a partner solution in the works because they announced it for Scorpio. They also have a product to compete again PS4P, scorpio. If XBOs sells well enough, I'm not sure investors will care how it competes against PS4P. Halo 5 is more profitable than past Halos, regardless of sales (which I thought were still good even if they weren't Halo 3/Reach amazing).
I haven't paid enough attention to Windows 10 adoption and Windows Phone hasn't mattered for years. However I would think we need to wait until scorpio launches and they actually carry through with their plans before we see if it all pays off.
How do you know it's next gen? I don't care how anyone feels or sees how will it pan out, I want to know how do you know it will be next gen?
That's disappointing and embarrassing for them.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
If that game was designed and built for a 6TF PC and then down ported to PS4 Pro then the differences would be obvious.
Multiplatform games built on the Scorpio will show a significant difference relative to PS4 Pro.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Percentage differences are not misleading. They are a more accurate way to evaluate power differences than magnitude.
Sure, probably about an XB1 vs. PS4 level of difference. I guess it depends on if people care to wait another year and pay more money for that level of difference. I suspect PS4 Pro is a good enough upgrade though.
But are devs going to build a version specifically for scorpio? I am not knowledgeable with this subject.
Aceofspades
Banned
No its not misleading at all, especially that we are in a transformation period with TV displays. Most of of extra power of Scorpio will be used in increasing resolution of games closer to 4K (it will have better image quality than Pro for sure) exactly the same situation PS4 had better resolutions than X1 (whether you find the difference big or not is another issue completely)
I expect PRO to be running game ~ 1440p and Scorpio 1800p or higher with the same settings.
Notice that CPU in Scorpio is still big mystery , It might have Zen or Jaguar we don't know that.
n0razi
Member
Multiplat games are always built to lowest common denominator
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
If they lead on Scorpio and typically devs tend to lead on the most powerful platform then yes.
Unless the devs go for that bullshit platform parity crap and I for one will not support a dev who does that.
Nope. Lead platform for this generation has mostly been PS4 or PC and then ported to other platforms.
They'll likely just pull over PC assets and higher quality settings depending on the target resolution and frame rate.
With high end PC versions already being worked on, it's much of a question whether or not devs will invest in higher quality Pro or Scorpio versions. It's more of a question to how capable the systems will be in handling these higher settings.
edit:
This is not true at all from what I've read on dev comments. They go for the most efficient way possible most of the time. That usually equals what platform will give them the fastest results and how difficult it will be porting from platform A to platform B. Look at last gen, we saw a lot of games lead on the PS3 in the later years because it was easy to go from the PS3 to the 360 than the reverse.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Right. I've console warriored enough today. I'm off to watch a movie. Somebody else take over.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Essentially 2017 will be Sonys year. The PS4 sold well, the revised PS4 is great at the new pricepoint, the PS4 Pro is for the enthusiast or 4K owner.
End of next year will be interesting with Scorpio, but (like with the 360) it'll take a lot for single-console owners to switch.
All said though, I own an XBone S and PS4, and will get a Pro and Scorpio since I've got 4K HDR. They already have my moneys.
End of next year will be interesting with Scorpio, but (like with the 360) it'll take a lot for single-console owners to switch.
All said though, I own an XBone S and PS4, and will get a Pro and Scorpio since I've got 4K HDR. They already have my moneys.
Aceofspades
Banned
The difference between Scorpio and PRO is not as big as some thinks at least in GPU department ( only metric we know about Scorpio)
And when you factor the year time, difference will be even smaller and less impressive.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Not really 4k alone takes up all that power.
12GB Ram
That's like saying the gap in time between the DC and PS2, or PS2 and Xbox made the leap in power somehow smaller and less impressive. Can't really agree there.
A gap in performance is still a gap in performance.
That's the thing MS is banking on UWP games for Xbox One , Xbox Scorpio & Windows 10 devices so what are the chances of them making a game based on Scorpio specs?
Scorpio is going to live or die by UWP games & probably will never have a install base big enough for devs to make a game around it.
martino
Member
This time you need to Also add memory bandwith and CPU advantages.
knightfolk
Member
I don't get this. I can't imagine it would be very difficult to have the game sense what hardware it is running in and, adjust the graphics options occordingly.
Caddyshack
Banned
"Again"? When has Xbox ever been 'on top' in the console space?
Thing is shareholders are not looking at console market to determine whether Xbox is worth anything. At least not entirely. They are looking at the value they could get if they invested these dollars elsewhere ie. Windows, servers, commercial software like SQL etc.
And here Xbox fails rather miserably from the beginnig, with a glimpse of change 360 brought.
But overall Xbox division, coupled and de-coupled from consumer division number of times is not doing very well when using internal benchmarks. Sometimes I think whether re-shaping divisions which helps to see transparently how Xbox is doing, is not for purpose. I mean, some people who are behind Xbox in corporate want to make it less visible to investors that money put in Xbox could work better in some other division.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
That's never going to happen though. Who's going to design and build around a spec so far removed from what the rest of the market is at?
The standard is still going to be PS4/Xbone next year, and most likely the year after that.
Remember with no "generations" transition in focus is going to be driven primarily by market share. Until sales of the older platforms tail off to an extent that it becomes financially viable, the status quo will remain unchanged.
The presence of ultra high-end PC parts in the market has no affect on console development targets, and neither will Scorpio at least until/if it establishes itself as a market leader.
Aceofspades
Banned
Maybe I should have phrased it better, I meant that in a year time (Console only gamers) would be somehow accustomed to resolutions higher than 1080p due to PRO. so the initial wow factor will be gone by the time Scorpio hits.
Sanctuary
Member
So how's that supposed to work with multiplat games then? It's not like most developers are going to suddenly just start making Scorpio games. If it's truly "next gen", then it will need to not be held back by current gen specs when making new games. If all it will do is raise the resolution and maybe the frame rate (which history has proven never, ever happens), then what's the point?
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Power is nothing if you don't have the devs/exclusives to show off the power.
Tomb Raider could be 8K and still not touch games like The Order, Driveclub and Uncharted 4 due to it being held back by other platforms.
Tomb Raider could be 8K and still not touch games like The Order, Driveclub and Uncharted 4 due to it being held back by other platforms.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
They have to try something....
Sanctuary
Member
Talking about "power" means nothing if it's still going to be held in the "forever current gen" stasis crap. Plus, the closer they get to high end PC specs, the higher the cost it will be (closer to higher end PCs...).
None of this really matters though if they can't get their own exclusives in order. Right now, Sony is stomping them in that regard too.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
The PS4 Pro is a PS4 though. Scorpio isnt a xbox one
yukianderson
Member
By the time Scorpio is out ps4 will have close or over 70 million users 5 to 10 million of those being Ps4 pro. Developers will utilize the ps4 pro firts and take advantage of it and then port it over to Scorpio. You won't see developers showing priority Scorpio over the ps4 pro especially with 0 install base. Install base is king.
Since GPU teraflops seems to be all anyone cares about these days (and calls it "specs"), let's go by that.
PS4 has 40% more teraflops than Xbox One
Scorpio will have 43% more teraflops than PS4 Pro
Wow, this will blow Sony out of the water straight to the moon.
Strange, Microsoft said it is. But you seem to know more.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Nothing will change as far as sales unless Microsoft is going to start eating massive losses on hardware again. PS4 Pro will likely be cheaper and more importantly not irrelevant in most of the world.
Well you will have one machine that can't hit native 4k and one that can, anything that Pro can Do, Scorpio will be able to do , but with 2TF leftover.