Leyasu
Banned
How do you know this??
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Let's Discuss: Now that both PS4 pro and Xbox Scorpio specs are out...
- Thread starter Gunslinger
- Start date
How do you know this??
Similar to my thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1252698&highlight=
anothertech
Member
Yup. Or like the Xbox crappedon ps2. Or the Super Nintendo crapped on sega Genesis.
It will be noticeable for sure. DF threads will be glorious. But not in the way some gamers are thinking.
Diminishing returns is a thing in hardware.
He's a time traveller
anothertech
Member
That's not how it works. It will be noticeable. But not by much more than ps4/Xbone differences.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
We're literally in a thread discussing a console that doesn't actually exist yet and its sales potential.
SonicX_Zero
Member
I think in terms of raw power Scorpio will definitely have the edge, while in terms of sales I think it is still quite unclear if PS4P headstart will help Sony increase its lead or whether the powerful specs of Scorpio help it blow past the difference in sales between PS4 and Xbone.
Err, no.
In fact, from a marketing perspective, you would have to be severely uninformed, arithmetically challenged, and or somewhat delusional to believe specs will deliver a global victory for a gaming brand with the worst global penetration numbers. Nevermind Scorpio. Find 10 random PS4 users out and about, and ask them to tell you the specs of the PS4. I promise you that you will not get the response that you think.
People care about power but not as much as you think. It's important to have consoles move forward and not backwards in terms of processing and graphical capability. However, people care more about price. This is honestly one of the first lessons in marketing (i.e. The four P's). Microsoft have done a fantastic job with pricing the One S, but their direct competitor is offering their product at the same pricepoint. What this means is that you will need ArsTecnica-esque number crunching for the Xbox One to ever make a "comeback".
I recognize that the battle for 4K consoles will become a thing once Scorpio actually exists, but from a marketing perspective, the Scorpio is in the worst position to win the battle. PS4 Pro is priced at $399.99, and assuming the product doesn't have any exotic internals, Sony will be able to reduce the manufacturing costs of the device. Unless Microsoft have discovered magic, Scorpio will not launch at a cheap pricepoint. So from that very same marketing perspective, there will be two 4K consoles at retail: one of which is cheaper than the other, has millions of users, and a wealth of 4K content already available. There's just no other way to put it: unless Scorpio has a tremendous never-seen-before hook, it is not going to change the tide for Xbox.
Now, speaking of "comebacks", I think I speak for reality when I point out that the Xbox brand has never been on top of any console generation. The PS2 won the sales battle against the Xbox and Gamecube, the Wii won the sales battle against the Xbox 360 and PS3, and while this generation is technically not over, the PS4 has sold over 20 million more consoles than the Wii U and Xbox One and is showing no signs of failing to widen that gap. I urge you to try to understand why the Xbox brand has never won a generation. It's really important to look at this stuff from a global perspective! For starters, you can look at the availability of these products in emerging markets, the history of these brands across the world, what gaming is like in other parts of the world, etc.
PerfectFlaw
Member
I've been wanting to create a thread about this, but I'm a lowly Junior so I'll settle for here.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2016-09/videogames
The PS4Pro is currently the number 2 selling item in September after 4 days; ahead of even a new Pokémon, Amiibo, and gift cards. This console is selling like hot cakes already, and unless this thing is extremely front loaded (which people used to think of the OG PS4), it's going to spur a huge install base lead.
I feel like a lot of GAF is severely underestimating the demand for the Pro because of their personal dissatisfaction with the console. I also feel like Microsoft is going to have a long road ahead if they wish to consistently be the best selling console in America. For reference, the X1 S was 23 on Amazon last month and 31 this month.
The long and short of it is the more generational lines become blurred the easier it is to maintain your position as market leader.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2016-09/videogames
The PS4Pro is currently the number 2 selling item in September after 4 days; ahead of even a new Pokémon, Amiibo, and gift cards. This console is selling like hot cakes already, and unless this thing is extremely front loaded (which people used to think of the OG PS4), it's going to spur a huge install base lead.
I feel like a lot of GAF is severely underestimating the demand for the Pro because of their personal dissatisfaction with the console. I also feel like Microsoft is going to have a long road ahead if they wish to consistently be the best selling console in America. For reference, the X1 S was 23 on Amazon last month and 31 this month.
The long and short of it is the more generational lines become blurred the easier it is to maintain your position as market leader.
I don't think MS thinks the Scorpio will catch up with the PS4 I don't think anyone sane would think that. What it will do is give MS 'the worlds most powerful console' moniker for a few years. Gives them a headstart on the 'true' 4K generation.
Put a cherry on top of the decent work they've done to regain customers and developers trust after they were turned off by the bungled Xbox One reveal and put the cat among the pigeons with how Sony reacts to them.
Put a cherry on top of the decent work they've done to regain customers and developers trust after they were turned off by the bungled Xbox One reveal and put the cat among the pigeons with how Sony reacts to them.
NathanDiego
Member
nothing more to say,only I laughed with "they can get back to the top again"
Salty Hippo
Member
Microsoft would need to kick Sony's ass in terms of software if they have any ambition of eventually turning the tides. I don't think they do. Their E3 this year was pretty telling. They will keep catering to the HaloGearsForza audience, bet heavily on survival/zombie/shared world games and keep budgets as low as possible for everything else.
Well the OG Xbox is the odd one from that bunch because it really did crappie all over the PS2 in terms of specs. =p We haven't seen and will likely never see a 3X advantage like that again.
mordecaii83
Member
Consider this: The flops difference between the PS4P and the Scorpio currently looks to be 1.8 teraflops. The difference between the GTX 1080 and 1070 is 2.5 teraflops (9 vs 6.5), which is only good enough for a ~20% increase at 4k or slightly less at 1440p. In fact the ratio of flops is also very close between these two examples (1.42 vs 1.38).
Since we don't know if the Scorpio will be Polaris or Vega architecture, things could change, but if they're both using the same architecture then performance between the two could be closer than some people think.
Since we don't know if the Scorpio will be Polaris or Vega architecture, things could change, but if they're both using the same architecture then performance between the two could be closer than some people think.
Deaf Spacker
Memb
Yup, I've pre-ordered a PS4 Pro and I'll probably get a Scorpio too, I'm a PC gamer first and foremost but chilling in front of a console is great, it's just a shame that the OGF PS4 and Xbox One are so weak.
Heavy_D206
Member
Most important thing about Scorpio for me is what the price is going to be.
LostDonkey
Member
Have they even said whether it will even be a traditional Xbox console?
It could just be an Xbox branded small form factor PC. Running the Xbox Store on Win10 but locked down a bit more.
It could just be an Xbox branded small form factor PC. Running the Xbox Store on Win10 but locked down a bit more.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
There is a huge difference between a 0.4Tf difference and 2.0Tf
n0razi
Member
The Scorpio will be slightly better just like how the OG PS4 is slightly better than the OG Xbone. Not enough to really make a difference especially if multiplayer games are locked at 30/60fps anyways.
It really just comes down to how bad you want a UHD BR player built in vs Sony's exclusives.
It really just comes down to how bad you want a UHD BR player built in vs Sony's exclusives.
Exploratory
Banned
Quantum Break? Sunset Overdrive? Scalebound? Sea of Thieves? Recore?
When are we going to stop propagating the HaloGearsForza nonsense?
n0razi
Member
That doesnt matter anymore for a lot of us with gaming PC's. I won't consider any game for Xbox thats available for PC
Yeah but if both push for 4K resolutions, that difference won't be quite as apparent.
Maybe if MS gives 8GBs of memory to devs, we'll see a slightly larger gap than we saw between XBO and PS4 but I still wouldn't describe it as being crapped on.
Edit:
But does PCs still matter when we're strictly talking about PS4 and Xbox? You may not consider them games that matter, but they will matter to console gamers interested in picking up an Xbox.
1.32 + 40% = 1.84
4.2 + 43% = 6
The difference isn't much different if they mean just 6TF & not 6+ TF
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Scorpio will be too late for what? Why do yall keep saying late? TF?
I think we're at a point of diminishing returns for graphics when it comes to mass market. More power is not enabling compellingly different games, and graphics are pretty damned good already.
We already have people saying pro games at 4.2 tf don't enough better than vanilla ps4 games with 1.8tf. The jump to 6tf isn't going to be enough of a differentiator IMO. Again, talking about the mass market.
Pro will have a year headststart and and almost guaranteed price advantage. I'd put my money on a $100 advantage. Pro will outpace Scorpio on a global at a similar ratio of ps4 vs one, if not do even better.
Hardcore gamers will be different, and I can see Scorpio doing well in that segment.
We already have people saying pro games at 4.2 tf don't enough better than vanilla ps4 games with 1.8tf. The jump to 6tf isn't going to be enough of a differentiator IMO. Again, talking about the mass market.
Pro will have a year headststart and and almost guaranteed price advantage. I'd put my money on a $100 advantage. Pro will outpace Scorpio on a global at a similar ratio of ps4 vs one, if not do even better.
Hardcore gamers will be different, and I can see Scorpio doing well in that segment.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
You forget that the Scorpio will have the latest updated technology and the GPU will also have a lot of tech that will help it with high performance VR etc...
I can see Scorpio become the lead platform for all multi console games and game getting down ported to run on Neo. The graphical differences will be obvious.
0.4Tf difference vs 2.0Tf. Quite the difference. Also the tech will also be state of the art. It's going to be a beast but I think you already know all that.
I guess had sony announced pro with an upgraded cpu then the bomb wud have dropped and its kinda a new console. They also wud have pissed off the 40million userbase. Cant compare what microsoft has until they actually deliver a real unit in the flesh. Sony have shackled themselves in a way by the cpu gain. Its always going to be weak. Vs the scorpio. I will be interested to see what happens to OG ps4 when scorpio hits. Will devs start to open up the pros gpu grunt..
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
The definition of "this generation" is muddied by having new systems, even if they are labeled as better versions of the current gen rather than a new one. It's brand new hardware to sell is what it comes down to.
Brand fanboyism is just an illusion, as the vast majority of people that play games will switch to what is deemed the best at that time, and having new hardware gives people the option to switch.
Actually, relative difference counts with that margin is not that different to XB1 vs PS4.
Esp given weak CPUs which most likely are powering both Pro and Scorpio.
If they MS focuses on delivering true advantage against Pro in 1080p, I guess they will have a real edge. In 4K? If MS won't go the path Sony went with checkerboard rendering supported by hardware, there's not gonna be much of a difference I think.
But- but but but - I think MS have been caught off-guard again, they were only able to produce some CGI presentation, and maybe they have not locked down the hardware design completely so they have a chance to built a truly outstanding console.
For me I am buying Pro for the benefit it offers in 1080p. The only thing that scares me is the cooling, with similar size and substantially bigger power draw it could run louder than PS4 and that's not something I would like to experience.
personally dont think comparing them is right. Both are targeting different product cycles really. Scorpio is substantially better because its a late 2017/18 product whats more of a early next generation platform for MS. Compared to the PS4 Pro what is more a slightly upgraded PS4 with 4K support.
Valkyria
Banned
Yeah sure, just like it happened with the OG Xbox /s
I like Neogaf because I can speak with gamers from the other side of the Atlantic, but many here forget that Xbox brand is dead outside of NA and Uk. As some fellow poster above wrote I can totally see Scorpio as a steambox for the win 10 store, it's the only thing that aligns with the company strategy in order to be green lighted.
it's a bigger number yes, but that's to be expected as the power in consoles increases. One day we might be looking at 25 vs 28 tf, where a 3tf difference is negligible.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Nope. Percentages are misleading. A 2.0Tf advantage is massive.
We don't know what CPU is going to be Scorpio so that's pure speculation.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
You're right the 43% increase in power from the ps4 pro to the scorpio is absolutely gigantic compared to the 40% increase from the xbox one to the ps4.
Not really. There is just 1 or 2 options that fit the bill. Nobody will ever repeat what Sony did with PS3 - BOM for that was 900$. So with the price everybody laughed at they were giving away 300$ to every customer.
So I think the CPU in Scorpio will not be a powerhouse. It is simply impossible to keep the cost at reasonable levels giving other goodies MS promised to have there (GPU power, mem bandwidth etc.)
PeregrinSe7en
Member
ShadowkillXNA
Member
Did you close your eyes and click your heels together 3 times while saying that ?
The difference will be barely bigger than with the xbox one/ps4 especially if microsoft pushes native 4k on the scorpio.
Unless they are going to be using the extra power to do something different from what the rest of the power is being used for it's going to be the same difference.
Also why did you round the 500GF down to 400GF but round the 1.8FT up to 2TF? we don't know if MS mean 6TF or 6.4FT & so on yet
Salty Hippo
Member
From your list, the first two flopped commercially, hence why I don't think MS will pursue many games like those anymore. I think those failures plus the waste of money that was Fable Legends hit them hard and made them scared. Those are also all projects greenlit during the Mattrick era, as is Scalebound.
SoT is a shared world online game. Nothing wrong with those, but it's obvious why MS gave it the go ahead: Destiny's success. ReCore is a low budget title. This what I'm saying. Anything that they consider to be risky will be a low budget game. Just think of the Phantom Dust reboot and what kind of budget they were allowing for it. 2 million and not a penny more, was it?
They don't care about expanding their library with more diverse games, more classic franchise revivals and more AAA new IP. Those are things that combined would push their hardware, but they just don't care, or don't believe that it sells consoles. They seem complacent and settled with the 2nd place. They'll make the most powerful hardware and hope that people buy it for the better multiplats. "If it sticks, great, if not, whatever" is the kind of mentality I've been getting from them. Good luck with that.
Releasing an entire year before the competition(when you are market leader) is a HUGE advantage. How can people be so blind?
Garrett 2U
Member
You just completely disregarded a list of diverse AAA games of new IP.
As for classic revivals... they released Rare Replay, are making a new Halo Wars, and have a Phantom Dust revival in the works.
FalsettoVibe
Member
When it comes to 4k how big is the difference between a 4.2TF system and a 6TF system?
exmachina64
Banned
Scorpio won't be using a Zen CPU and I can't imagine it will be clocked drastically higher than PS4P, so it's not going to make much of a difference there.
With a stronger GPU, you might see some differences, but it depends on how developers and publishers support multiplatform games between PS4/P and XB1/Scorpio. I'd expect many/more/most games to be CPU-bound by that point.
We don't really know what direction they're headed in with respect to RAM and memory bandwidth, so that's unclear.
tl;dr -- Don't expect the curbstomping that people are hyping up on the internet.
Yep.
With a stronger GPU, you might see some differences, but it depends on how developers and publishers support multiplatform games between PS4/P and XB1/Scorpio. I'd expect many/more/most games to be CPU-bound by that point.
We don't really know what direction they're headed in with respect to RAM and memory bandwidth, so that's unclear.
tl;dr -- Don't expect the curbstomping that people are hyping up on the internet.
Yep.
Leyasu
Banned
The architecture is the same, it will get the same games.
We honestly don't know what kind of tech scorpio will have so this is a lot of baseless speculation.
Whatever platform developers see results on the fastest will likely be the lead platform. I'm not sure the lead platform matters as much anymore when everything is based on x86 architecture these days. This isn't like the PS3 and 360 days where the lead can have influences on the design or graphical make up of the game.
The graphical difference was obvious with the OG Xbox.
What does brand recognition have to do with specs?
I'm not sure MS cares about losing in overall console sales. Selling well will be enough for them. They are investing in an ecosystem, not a singular platform anymore.
The Scorpio will be significantly more powerful...but I also don't think there is much of any chance they will be able to sell it for $399..
So yes, games are going to look better on the Scorpio...but this generation might as well be over from a sales standpoint...
I still truly believe that MS is going to press the reset button with the launch of Scorpio...yes, they will keep their promise for forward/backward compatibility...but I don't think "One" will be anywhere near the name of this thing when it hits shelves
I don't think it will be the Xbox One Pro...or Xbox One Plus, or anything like that...
So yes, games are going to look better on the Scorpio...but this generation might as well be over from a sales standpoint...
I still truly believe that MS is going to press the reset button with the launch of Scorpio...yes, they will keep their promise for forward/backward compatibility...but I don't think "One" will be anywhere near the name of this thing when it hits shelves
I don't think it will be the Xbox One Pro...or Xbox One Plus, or anything like that...
Garrett 2U
Member
Why do you say this?
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Wouldn't that put them in a situation..like its essentially a new generation. They would get some backlash from that I imagine