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[Yautja_Warrior]

If that game was designed and built for a 6TF PC and then down ported to PS4 Pro then the differences would be obvious.

Multiplatform games built on the Scorpio will show a significant difference relative to PS4 Pro.

Sure but game development doesn't work that way, as most games are designed for multi-platforms or if PC exclusive they have to scale to lower end PC's too, so its very rare you get a game exclusively designed to take full advantage of a high end PC only.

As for Scorpio, you will see a difference in graphics between it and the Pro but I don't think its going to be as big as some people think it will be, because there is no exclusives to take full advantage.

PC's are already many times more powerful than current hardware and Pro / Scorpio too, yet PS4 and Xbox One can produce visuals close to high end PC's already. Sure some effects get turned down a bit but games still look good, the big difference is performance.

The best thing MS could do with Scorpio is invest in a decent CPU so it can hit a solid 60fps in games, that would be a much bigger advantage than graphics.

 

[Innolis]

I'm super interested in seeing how much will Scorpio retail for and how will they pitch it to consumers.

 

[Gunslinger]

You guys think if lot of people pick up the ps4 pro they will spend more for another 4k upscaled console? I think if the hardware is much stronger than ps4 then Scorpio will be at least 500.

 

[Ushay]

There 2 things MS needs to get right to a fucking micrometer. The price and the software and games they deliver. If they can smash it in both departments, I can see them owning the 'high end console' market and perhaps clawing back a decent share for mainstream ie X1S.

Anything can happen in this industry.

 

[onQ123]

You guys think if lot of people pick up the ps4 pro they will spend more for another 4k upscaled console? I think if the hardware is much stronger than ps4 then Scorpio will be at least 500.

MS has made it clear that they are going for native 4K. you might see some games that are upscaled but for the most part these games will be 4K.


It's kinda ignorant for people to keep yelling upscale as if games can't use different settings from what a powerful PC is using to get 4K.

 

[HeelPower]

I dont think it will matter of there is no guarantee/standard that every release will benefit from such power,especially at 1080p where most consumers are at.

I am worried about the same thing for PS4 Pro actually.

Ties to regular consoles and weird FPS restrictions on games are worrying to start with.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

The gap is a lot bigger between the two this time.

Actually, it isn't. Especially if Microsoft are going for native 4K in most games and they don't bump the CPU significantly (which I can't see happening if they want to keep this thing affordable). Where PS4 games at the moment tend to have a few more bells and whistles than XB1 games and run at 1080p in some situations where XB1 can't, I expect a similar level of differences between Scorpio and the Pro. I don't think you realise how resource intensive 4K is.

 

[QaaQer]

MS has made it clear that they are going for native 4K. you might see some games that are upscaled but for the most part these games will be 4K.


It's kinda ignorant for people to keep yelling upscale as if games can't use different settings from what a powerful PC is using to get 4K.

They've also made it clear devs can do what they want, or are you just talking exclusives?

 

[Gunslinger]

MS has made it clear that they are going for native 4K. you might see some games that are upscaled but for the most part these games will be 4K.


It's kinda ignorant for people to keep yelling upscale as if games can't use different settings from what a powerful PC is using to get 4K.

With all the leaks and spec information available on the system you really believe that it can run games native on 4k? And run it stable? Right now to get a pc to run games on native 4k you need top of the line hardware. May cost over a thousand dollar if you building from scratch. I am not mocking your response i am asking you so i can understand the hardware bit better. Thanks.

 

[IronicSonic]

Maybe Xbox One S will do better than Scorpio reducing sales gap with PS4

 

[Mr.Marston]

I still don't see the point in not just the Scorpio but in Xbox period. Gears of War 4, Forza and probably Halo 6 are on PC.
Normally Console price points compare favourably with equivalent PC hardware but I have a feeling the Scorpio will be expensive as hell.

 

[Chobel]

The gap is similar to the gap between PS4 and XB1. However is the CPU in Zen based than the gap will get significantly bigger.

Maybe Xbox One S will do better than Scorpio reducing sales gap with PS4

lol

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Maybe Xbox One S will do better than Scorpio reducing sales gap with PS4

Announcing scorpio 18 months early isnt doing the S any favors.

 

[Gunslinger]

Announcing scorpio 18 months early isnt doing the S any favors.

I was actually thinking about trading in my old Xbox one for the slim. Just so I can use it as a UHD blu Ray player. Ps4 pro not supporting 4k blu Ray kind of sucked.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Ideal scenario for the Xbox One Scorpio.

1) Include UHD Blu-ray and highlight it massively.
2) Strive for Native 4k as much as possible.
3) Bump up ram to allow for higher quality textures over PS4 and original xbox one.
4) Use a custom zen-based processor to improve CPU substantially.
5) Support both PC headsets and make that a marketing bullet-point. Vive and Rift are much better VR experiences when combined with their respective touch controls over PSVR.
6) Include an XBox One Elite Controller in the package.
7) Unlikely as things are probably still in flux and release is a year out. Unveil the console a few days before the release of PS4 Pro to steal thunder and have people cancel their impulse pre-orders.
8) Allow devs more flexibility than Sony in regards to use of power.

 

[The Hamburglar]

Looking forward to tomorrow's ps4 pro and Scorpio thread.

 

[Gunslinger]

Ideal scenario for the Xbox One Scorpio.

1) Include UHD Blu-ray and highlight it massively.
2) Strive for Native 4k as much as possible.
3) Bump up ram to allow for higher quality textures over PS4 and original xbox one.
4) Use a custom zen-based processor to improve CPU substantially.
5) Support both PC headsets and make that a marketing bullet-point. Vive and Rift are much better VR experiences when combined with their respective touch controls over PSVR.
6) Include an XBox One Elite Controller in the package.
7) Unlikely as things are probably still in flux and release is a year out. Unveil the console a few days before the release of PS4 Pro to steal thunder and have people cancel their impulse pre-orders.
8) Allow devs more flexibility than Sony in regards to use of power.

What you ask is nice but then we are also looking at probably a 600-700 dollar console. Didn't workout too well for the ps3 at that price. And they coming off from the greatest selling gaming console ever(ps2). MS is already struggling to keep up with competition. I doubt a super expensive console will help .

 

[bigfurb]

Well you will have one machine that can't hit native 4k and one that can, anything that Pro can Do, Scorpio will be able to do , but with 2TF leftover.

Yeah, but MS has made a lot of noise about their machine doing "true 4k" meaning native. If they're gonna stick to their guns on that point that extra 2TF is gonna be going towards pushing enough pixels to get to that resolution. Sony deciding to go with their "fauxK" but still highly impressive checkerboard method gives "the feel of 4K" without burning the processing power displaying native 4K does. I think this is gonna leave you with very similar looking end results for both consoles on the screen. Unless of course MS goes the fauxK method as well, which would mean they lied about being a true 4K machine, and that would just be special (I can see the threads on GAF now)

 

[Asd202]

Maybe Xbox One S will do better than Scorpio reducing sales gap with PS4

Xbone S will be against PS4 Slim and PS4 Pro for a whole year so it has no chance already.

 

[Jumeira]

I've been wanting to create a thread about this, but I'm a lowly Junior so I'll settle for here.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2016-09/videogames

The PS4Pro is currently the number 2 selling item in September after 4 days; ahead of even a new Pokémon, Amiibo, and gift cards. This console is selling like hot cakes already, and unless this thing is extremely front loaded (which people used to think of the OG PS4), it's going to spur a huge install base lead.

I feel like a lot of GAF is severely underestimating the demand for the Pro because of their personal dissatisfaction with the console. I also feel like Microsoft is going to have a long road ahead if they wish to consistently be the best selling console in America. For reference, the X1 S was 23 on Amazon last month and 31 this month.

The long and short of it is the more generational lines become blurred the easier it is to maintain your position as market leader.

Wii U sold like hotcakes initially. Enthusiasts.

 

[onQ123]

With all the leaks and spec information available on the system you really believe that it can run games native on 4k? And run it stable? Right now to get a pc to run games on native 4k you need top of the line hardware. May cost over a thousand dollar if you building from scratch. I am not mocking your response i am asking you so i can understand the hardware bit better. Thanks.

Xbox Scorpio GPU will be 4.5 X more powerful than Xbox One & it will be using newer tech so it will be able to push 4K games with around the same settings as the Xbox One games & even look better because of new tech.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=216257172

Well that f'n sucks. My hype behind scorpio was based on my hopes of it being zen based. Using shitty Jaguar cores again.... Ugh.




All hype gone now. PS4 pro just became instantly more attractive since it's out in two months. Im not waiting another year just for true 4k. Im on 1080p. F that.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

Isn't the gap between the Pro and Xbox One bigger than the Scorpio to Pro will be? So we'll see this November just how big a difference it can be.

 

[supernormal]

It's next gen, it won't have the One Branding.

These consoles are supposed to use the same discs and peripherals. Unless the want to ship two versions of every game (Xbox One/Xbox 4k) the "Xbox One" name will be somewhere in there.

 

[Clear]

Xbox Scorpio GPU will be 4.5 X more powerful than Xbox One & it will be using newer tech so it will be able to push 4K games with around the same settings as the Xbox One games & even look better because of new tech.

Which really begs the question, is this a mid-gen upgrade or a whole new machine?

To me, what Sony have done is a conservative improvement with an eye on pricing; Its not spectacular, but that's ok because its supposed to complement the basic PS4.

Scorpio is something else entirely. If its reasonably priced its such an advance technologically that buying an Xbone S would be stupid. In short, it would be a straight replacement for Xbone S.

If its not, its more of a premium device that due to its expense is always going to be a niche seller.

The way I see it, MS are doing a good job of spreading FUD about Pro, whilst being very cagey about how Scorpio meshes with the existing Xbone line.

 

[Wil348]

We still don't know the CPU specs for Scorpio, correct? Seems a bit odd that they are keeping quiet about that, or maybe it's just me. :/

 

[Garrett 2U]

We still don't know the CPU specs for Scorpio, correct? Seems a bit odd that they are keeping quiet about that, or maybe it's just me. :/

I imagine that the design wasn't completely finalized at that time.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Power has never been the ultimate deciding factor for console success, and more often then not the less powerful console is more successful. Plus, the PS4 has already sold many more units than the Xbox One and has a better perception in most ways. So the idea that the Scorpio will come out and mainstream consumers will be so blown away by its specs that it becomes the new market leader seems silly to me.

If Scorpio was a brand new system with new features, a new OS, and the excitement that a new generation brings, then we could have a discussion. But it's not. It's a more powerful Xbox One, and while it's specs are impressive, in the eyes of consumers it's still just an existing version of a console that they likely either have or don't want (generalizing).

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

We still don't know the CPU specs for Scorpio, correct? Seems a bit odd that they are keeping quiet about that, or maybe it's just me. :/

It was 18 months from shipping when they announced it.....nothing is even finalized, everything is subject to change.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Maybe Xbox One S will do better than Scorpio reducing sales gap with PS4

Nope. PS4 will win September, November and December NPD. Possibly October as well, but Xbox might get a nice boost from Gears 4. Worldwide the lead will continue to grow.

We still don't know the CPU specs for Scorpio, correct? Seems a bit odd that they are keeping quiet about that, or maybe it's just me. :/

Boasts of 4K but no 60fps points to no Zen.

 

[Applecot]

The scorpio is also still non-existant

 

[nickthebiggeek]

I really don't think Scorpio will be 6TF, do people realize how much heat is produced running at that speed?

 

[TheKeyPit]

$499 max.

 

[LurkFish17]

Don't know how many of you have caught wind of this article yet? If Scorpio doesn't use zen, then what are its choices.

http://digiworthy.com/2016/09/11/amd-zen-custom-socs-project-scorpio/

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I really don't think Scorpio will be 6TF, do people realize how much heat is produced running at that speed?

It will probably be a huge console like the Xbox One.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Don't know how many of you have caught wind of this article yet? If Scorpio doesn't use zen, then what are its choices.

http://digiworthy.com/2016/09/11/amd-zen-custom-socs-project-scorpio/

Jaguar, Puma, Excavator.

 

[BosSin]

As long as my nvidia 1080 is able to run circles around both consoles I will be a happy camper

 

[brawly]

$499 max.

That'll probably be it. By that time you might deals for the Pro at $350. Gonna be such a hard sell.

 

[Eusis]

One comes out soon for a low price.

The other will come out later, with more power, at an expected higher price point.

A year maybe enough to get that out at $400 too actually. If it were side-by-side I'd definitely expect $500+ though.

I guess with this they'll reverse the situation at the start of the generation, but it's probably a bit late for that. Kind of what I prefer though, PS gets exclusives I'd want more whether it's what Sony would make or (more likely most of the time) Japanese developers simply favoring that system, versus Microsoft having more raw power and being the better choice for most western releases (or multiplats really.)

 

[LurkFish17]

Jaguar, Puma, Excavator.

Can any of those handle 4k at 60?

 

[BeforeU]

One comes out soon for a low price.

The other will come out later, with more power, at an expected higher price point.

No one in their right mind expects it to be at higher price

 

[Electret]

I really don't think Scorpio will be 6TF, do people realize how much heat is produced running at that speed?

That's why you stuff a bunch of cores on the die and clock things low.

I think DF had a good Scorpio speculation article that described this possible pathway.

 

[Lockjaw333]

Ideal scenario for the Xbox One Scorpio.

1) Include UHD Blu-ray and highlight it massively.
2) Strive for Native 4k as much as possible.
3) Bump up ram to allow for higher quality textures over PS4 and original xbox one.
4) Use a custom zen-based processor to improve CPU substantially.
5) Support both PC headsets and make that a marketing bullet-point. Vive and Rift are much better VR experiences when combined with their respective touch controls over PSVR.
6) Include an XBox One Elite Controller in the package.
7) Unlikely as things are probably still in flux and release is a year out. Unveil the console a few days before the release of PS4 Pro to steal thunder and have people cancel their impulse pre-orders.
8) Allow devs more flexibility than Sony in regards to use of power.

I like all of your points. I especially like 7, I think even just some new information about scorpio right before ps4 pro launch would be a good idea. Not sure what they culls reveal, but anything that sort of reaffirms the superior power of the system would be good.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

Can any of those handle 4k at 60?

They can since the gpu will be the muscle behind the resolution bump to 4k

 

[StrongBlackVine]

No one in their right mind expects it to be at higher price

Any one expecting price parity is delusional.

They can since the gpu will be the muscle behind the resolution bump to 4k

No they can't. You should take a look at what PC specs are needed for 4K/60fps.

 

[LurkFish17]

They can since the gpu will be the muscle behind the resolution bump to 4k

I think that's over simplifying things a bit.
That cpu could be a bottleneck for the gpu, kinda like now with these consoles. Though gpu compute may be useful.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

I really don't think Scorpio will be 6TF, do people realize how much heat is produced running at that speed?

It's totally possible. We already have the ps4 pro at 4.1tf. Scorpio will probably pack AMD's new gpu architecture, Vega, which releases 1st half 2017. It brings more performance per watt (more power efficient).

Pack the gpu with clusters and clock it low. Die size wont be an issue at 14nm and using similar jaguar/puma cpu cores wont matter much for size.

The heat at 14nm fabrication is more than manageable. It's going to happen. They already announced it which means not only is it feasible, but it's happening.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

I think that's over simplifying things a bit.
That cpu could be a bottleneck for the gpu, kinda like now with these consoles. Though gpu compute may be useful.

They'll just have to work around bottlenecks if they pop up. We dont know the clock on the cpu. Puma tops out at 2.5ghz @ 28nm. Who knows what they'll run at on 14nm.

It's obviously enough juice to push 4k on scorpio. It's just up to devs to the games with what ms gives them.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

Any one expecting price parity is delusional.



No they can't. You should take a look at what PC specs are needed for 4K/60fps.

That's an apples to oranges comparison.

4K/60 PC /= 4K/60 console

PC is max settings whereas console is whatever setting the dev can get the games running at to meet their target. Usually this would be "high" settings whereas pc is ultra and has way more visual features added to take advantage of the extra cpu/gpu muscle on pc.

If a dev has 4K/60 on console as a target, they'll taylor the game's visuals to meet that target. PC version would then get th bells and whistles added on top which takes more to keep 60, but the open nature of pc allows consumers to taylor their pc to get the 60 they want.

 

[mugurumakensei]

What you ask is nice but then we are also looking at probably a 600-700 dollar console. Didn't workout too well for the ps3 at that price. And they coming off from the greatest selling gaming console ever(ps2). MS is already struggling to keep up with competition. I doubt a super expensive console will help .

The only one that might bump up the price significantly is the elite controller because it's sold for over $100 standalone. However, the controller doesn't cost much to manufacturer and gives an extra incentive for enthusiast players to upgrade. Afterall, this thing's target market like the PS4 Pro is the tech enthusiast console gamer.

The custom-zen processor wouldn't be too expensive. It'd be mostly customization to make it run cool in a SoC. The extra RAM would also be cheap. Microsoft could easily take the money saved from no longer needing eSRAM to cover the Zen based processor and RAM.

The UHD player is in the XBox One slim so no way that's not in.

Supporting Rift and Vive costs Microsoft nothing. They might make their own headset, but I doubt it.

Having an announcement event a couple days before PS4 Pro launch would probably be some costly marketing. In fact, most of the expense will be in marketing its advantages.