This was a positive look at the game and hardware yet that was your takeaway?
Even in this game, there are 1080p options.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Rise of the Tomb Raider PS4 Pro vs PC 4K
- Thread starter jett
- Start date
Even in this game, there are 1080p options.
PeterLegend
Member
You guys are brutal, defending your systems as if they were your children.
November will be interesting
PS4 Pro gonna poop on your kids
November will be interesting
Many will have supersampling, this game also has two alternate modes for 1080p with higher settings and an uncapped framerate.
very little, since HDR support is also patched into the OG PS4
Nobody is trying to defend systems. Just clear up misconceptions and outrage based on those misconceptions.Nixxes have made a 4K checkerboard mode, a 1080p 30 graphics mode, and a 1080p 45-60 'definitive edition' mode.
Devs are free to do what they want, nobody is forcing 4K, and the benefit is clear in all scenarios over base PS4.
Nobody should logically be comparing this machine to a high end PC device. The fact that they are in the same room at all comparing native 4K and ultra PC settings is very flattering for the lesser hardware.
But the PS4's GPU didn't cost anywhere near 400 when the console came out, why would you essentially dismiss the entire rest of the unit including the RAM, and CPU? That makes no sense. Why expect an entire console to eat the cost of a single GPU that probably takes in as much heat and electrical power alone as the console itself?
You figure 60 fps mode on most games can be done at almost no cost. Just like the supposed HDR mode.
Maybe other things like draw distances etc. would be better.
Anything related to draw distance (of geometry, shadows etc) is CPU dependant. So Pro games won't really do much better in that area than PS4.
And 60FPS is never free, it can use the extra power to perhaps do stable 60FPS with PS4 level visuals at 1080P. But I don't think the game has such an option.
The options it seems to have is
-checkerboard 4K/30FPS with PS4 or lower visuals.
-1080P locked 30FPS with very high visuals.
-1080P unlocked framerate 40-60 with very high visuals.
It could have probably done 1080P stable 60 with PS4 level visuals. But then CPU is again an issue in a CPU heavy game like this, so not sure about that.
The reason why games would need this support patched in is so that this conversion fakes place so that the console can output an image with a wider colour range.
And 60FPS is never free, it can use the extra power to perhaps do stable 60FPS with PS4 level visuals at 1080P. But I don't think the game has such an option.
The options it seems to have is
-checkerboard 4K/30FPS with PS4 or lower visuals.
-1080P locked 30FPS with very high visuals.
-1080P unlocked framerate 40-60 with very high visuals.
It could have probably done 1080P stable 60 with PS4 level visuals. But then CPU is again an issue in a CPU heavy game like this, so not sure about that.
HDR shouldn't take any real performance, the games already have HDR. All its doing now is that instead of converting the dynamic range rendered by the game to a 256 colour space via tone mapping, it is converting it to 1024 colour space.
The reason why games would need this support patched in is so that this conversion fakes place so that the console can output an image with a wider colour range.
The PS4 Pro is not going to do anything to address why people buy enthusiast gaming PCs, and so will do little to deter those customers. If you are seriously weighing up spending money on a gaming PC, then in 99% of cases cost is far less of a factor in your decision relative to performance. A system pushing non-native 4K@30fps in major titles, with no support for 4K physical media (something that would have actually provided some advantage over a PC until 4K BR drives are released) has little appeal to someone prepared to spend more money for image quality and framerate improvements. The performance gain is somewhat impressive given the cost, but what they've shown isn't actually delivering on what is attracting customers to PC in the first place.
These exact issues of consoles failing to render at native resolutions, coupled with reduced framerates and worse image quality happened last generation, and pushed customers to PC for the same reasons. Sony and Microsoft have really only worsened this situation for themselves, by positioning the PS4/XBO hardware as little more than closed-box, relatively underspecced PCs.
Never knew this. Thanks.
Why would 60fps come at no cost? The CPU upclock is only 30%. Your asking developers to double it with only a 30% jump? Even with the GPU overhead, the CPU is not going to let that happen in most games.
That isn't what it is doing. It is likely rendering higher than 1080p. Perhaps 1440p, maybe less or more before scaling to 4K. Even then, it is likely using the "checkerboard" technique, which doesn't really relate in the same way, so there might be some variation in the acutal amount being rendered to construct the frame output. The Xbox One S literally upscales to 4K, and obviously has a very minimal bump in GPU power
johnnydrama
Banned
nah man it's the PC dudes who are the villains for pointing out that shit's missing from the screenshots
OnionPowder
Member
I really think the RAM in this thing might be a bottleneck. 5GB shared RAM pool is kind of a joke for 4K. This game on PC will use over 6GB of VRAM alone just for the ultra textures at 1080p.
Wait what?...
A complete system (CPU, GPU, Mobo, RAM, HDD, case, input device) that costs $400..you think it should pump out graphics on par with a GPU that costs $400 by itself? Are you kidding?
Megatron
Member
Well then why do you want xb1 shots? Of course the ps4 pro version looks better... I think people want to compare it to the best looking version.
Obliterator
Member
Luckily there is a 1080p version that has all of the bells and whistles maxed out. That's why I hope more games will be like Tomb Raider and offer multiple options, especially since I'm not going to 4k until maybe late next year or the year after.
Why? You're literally asking to have a CPU, hard drive, case, networking hardware, power supply, and operating system thrown in for free for what reason, exactly? Actually watching the video makes for a pretty favorable impression considering the price of the system as a whole. Much more so than one screen grab of a comparison done from video captured by someone else used out of context would suggest.
oh wow ok
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
It's upscaling to 4k but a resolution higher than 1440p. DF concludes it's something around 1800p, and then using checkerboard rending to take it up to 2160p (4k)
I also don't understand the controversy of this thread. The Pro is natively rendering over 2x's the amount of native pixels as a native 1080p image. That's where the resources are going. It's not going to do that, and ON TOP OF THAT, bump visual settings from high to very high on resources that are tapped out.
Thus I fully expect visuals to improve at native 1080p mode. The only question than is, what would provide the better image?: 4k supersampled on a 1080p tv or 1080p native with highest graphical presets?
I just meant development wise.
DreadfulOmen
Member
lol ok buddy.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
...yikes.
I want to see some games normal PS4 vs PS4 Pro. I really hope nobody pulls some bullshit to sell the Pro.
I want to see some games normal PS4 vs PS4 Pro. I really hope nobody pulls some bullshit to sell the Pro.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
ThatStupidLion
Member
honestly the more high res and clear these grahics get the more aparent the flat textures, cheat maps, and low polys because and hurts the overall experience imo
That's what I'm talking about, if I can buy a single $400 GPU and play all the sexy PC games with bells & whistles on said GPU alone w/out ANY other components needed(Mobo, CPU, RAM, etc...) why can't I get the same thing in a $400 PS4 Pro. Sony, are you even fucking trying at this point?
Wishmaster92
Member
According to cerny it's next to no cost in performance for hdr in games.
I get what your saying, people were making the same arguments for PS4 and XB1 as well
DreadfulOmen
Member
So you got your cpu, mobo, ram, case, and psu for free?
imho, the only games that might run 60FPS (regardles of being 4K / checkerboard 4K / etc)on PS4 Pro are:
- games that already run in a locked 60FPS on PS4
- games with an unlocked framerate that hits 60 FPS most of the time with occasional drops
- games with a locked 30 FPS that -might- run upwards of 50FPS if unlocked; but developers chose to lock it to create consistency.
- games that already run in a locked 60FPS on PS4
- games with an unlocked framerate that hits 60 FPS most of the time with occasional drops
- games with a locked 30 FPS that -might- run upwards of 50FPS if unlocked; but developers chose to lock it to create consistency.
Confused Cheeseburger
Member
I think sarcasm.
OnionPowder
Member
To be fair to their point, if I spent $400 on a PC in 2013 and then spent $400 on upgrades right now, I'd get a way bigger bump then spending $400 on a PS4 and then $400 on a PS4 Pro.
You will be able to choose. That is the point of 3 settings, to suit your preferred viewing experience.
Maybe he's joking?
Awesome, but is that the case for any game ? I.e. could I play The Last of Us Remastered at 1080p/60fps rather then 4K/30fps or a game like Uncharted 4 at 1080p/30fps rather then 4K/30fps ?
Wishmaster92
Member
It would depend on the graphical advantages. You got 2.5 times more gpu raw power along with a bump in bandwidth and cpu. My guess is msaa 2-4x/fxaa combo to really clean up the visuals along with what for honor is doing for 1080p mode : higher res textures, better ssr, increased ground density with more grass, better motion blur. That is a bigger difference imo than 4k upres which you can tell from a mile away is not native and default ps4 graphical effects.
martino
Member
No you can have preordred it and be totally fine with the 470 level of performance it will bring to console exclusive over the oldest version and not trying to make it more than that.
I think it depends on the game. the onus is on developers to allow explicit modes to choose from other than what you'll automatically get depending on what type of TV you're connected to
I'm excited about the HDR possibilities, but I wouldn't buy a set for a couple of years and I assume many aren't either.
What you get for your 1080p set matters a lot. Many want to know if it's worth another 400 bucks, or 300/200 bucks, depending what you can get for the old one.
Phrozenflame500
Member
Under-performing the 4K meme is expected, but as long as it keeps up well at 1080/60 it's pretty ok for it's price point.
Ah okay, here's hoping there's no performance tradeoffs as I'm picking up a 4K TV soon. Hopefully it holds up compared to downsampled 1080p.
OnionPowder
Member
So far the assumption is that pro games will still be targeting 30FPS for games played at 1080p.
It really depends on what was bottlenecking them on the standard version or what they target for in the pro version really. No guarantee of anything
Ehem.... All PS4's can output 1080p HDR since the 4.0 update...
DreadfulOmen
Member
Man i cant even tell anymore.