martino
Member
And with 8gb GPU now at 200 odds it will down to medium by the end of the gen are very high even on pro
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Digital Foundry: Rise of the Tomb Raider PS4 Pro vs PC 4K
- Thread starter jett
- Start date
And with 8gb GPU now at 200 odds it will down to medium by the end of the gen are very high even on pro
Is more pronounced because at 30 fps with the same shutter speed the blur tail must be longer. But is lower quality too.
My guess is 1920x2160 as desired input if it's doing something like
but I think the checkerboard scale can accept arbitrary resolutions as input and that's why some 4Kinda games are blurrier than others.
CyberPunked
Member
I mean, it's not 4K at all, so I guess you could still be crazy for thinking that.
I think one thing that stands out is just how blurry the Square Enix capture is. Whether it's by YouTube / Square Enix PR complacency / or the footage representing an honest rendition of the PS4 Pro: it doesn't exactly communicate the consoles first comparison in a flattering light.
Here's to hoping the hardware can reach a little higher in its ambition for visual fidelity. I still think for 399 it's doing some pretty amazing things. My Pc unfortunately has a hard time in Geo Thermal Valley running above 24 FPS. (280x here)
Here's to hoping the hardware can reach a little higher in its ambition for visual fidelity. I still think for 399 it's doing some pretty amazing things. My Pc unfortunately has a hard time in Geo Thermal Valley running above 24 FPS. (280x here)
There is 4K PS4 Pro games & even checkerboard rendering is 4K it's just not the same as 4K being rendered in immediate mode
Dictator93
Member
What does this mean?
Immediate mode means something completely different in my experience of reading about computer graphics.
But checkerboard scaling doesn't render 4K. You're spinning around this every day.
Fredrik
Member
4K isn't at the craze stage on PC yet so I don't know why PS4 would get left behind because of the 4K craze. PS4 were doing just fine with no threat at the horizon besides NX which isn't really a threat.
What if you just recently caved in and bought a PS4 to play Uncharted 4. Could you then imagine why PS4Pro makes some people upset? I don't think people are upset that there is a $399 PS4 capable of 4K resolutions, they're upset that they were fooled into buying the original PS4 thinking it would be the best place to play PS exclusives for the next 5 years or so. It doesn't help you that PS4Pro is only $399 if you just bought an old $399 PS4. In the end it won't be a $399 purchase unless you were a fence-sitter up until now.
Risk Breaker
Member
Yeah, this is why graphics comparisons done with screenshots of youtube videos that are reposts of other youtube videos are never good
Especially when talking about resolution and IQ.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
That was my takeaway. DF seemed pretty positive on the PS4P.
CyberPunked
Member
I think it's pretty clear that referring to 4K means actually running in 4K, not some upscaled solution (and yes, that's what checkerboard rendering is).
I'm curious, what games other than last-gen remasters run in native 4K?
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
How are MS going to counter this with the Scorpio? The main selling point was 4K/HDR but that's gone now the PS4Pro is launching. It's going to be really difficult to justify a higher price than $399 and I doubt they'd want to lose money on every unit sold. They could downgrade the specs but that would lead to huge consumer disappointment and accusations of them lying. This is a mess waiting to happen in my opinion.
They can argue their console can do real 4k. As they have been doing.
More powerful, better looking games, real 4K, 4K player, etc...
It's not that hard to understand.
sammyCYBORG
Member
I find it hard to believe Scorpio will be able to do native 4K gaming. At least for the flagship, demanding titles.
Without highly compromising the graphical fidelity, anyway.
Without highly compromising the graphical fidelity, anyway.
Obviously, but the gap is big enough that they'll easily be able to demonstrate that their console is more powerful.
Yea... the more I see, the more I wish the PS4 Pro were more of a premium box at a premium price. It's just too close to the OG PS4 in every way: Price and specs.
I agree this is fine for a $400 box. But it should never have been a $400 box in the first place. Budget minded consumers already have a product to buy: the OG PS4. The Pro model is aimed to only a very *slightly* less budget minded consumer. Sony should have aimed higher for a more niche crowd at a higher price point in my opinion.
I agree this is fine for a $400 box. But it should never have been a $400 box in the first place. Budget minded consumers already have a product to buy: the OG PS4. The Pro model is aimed to only a very *slightly* less budget minded consumer. Sony should have aimed higher for a more niche crowd at a higher price point in my opinion.
Don't make up terms, especially if those terms already exist and have a very specific meaning in the field of rendering.
By then it won't matter, because Pro was already a stop gap you know?
By the time the end of the gen comes around, obviously PS5 will be there to signal the new gen, presumably.
How do people tell the difference between 'fake' 4K and 'real' 4K, if most of the arguments against these iterative consoles is that 1080p already looks good at 4K is a waste of resources?
Different people exist.
ColdDeckEd
Member
Theres no doubt ps4p has alot of value but why is it people are saying you can only do 4k on a 1080? A 1060 level card should be able to run 4k at fps and image quality settings that will at least equal psp4p's quality.
icecold1983
Member
people thinking 4k isnt the best way to use gpu power doesnt mean we cant recognize an improvement from it
I won't be surprised if it's the same case as the Pro. Consoles won't be doing native 4k as standard for a good long while.
Because it's parallel rendering
Parallel rendering methods[edit]
AFR belongs to a class of parallel rendering methods, which subdivide a four-dimensional image frame sequence (x,y,z and time) into smaller regions, each of which is then assigned to a different physical processor within a multi-processor array. Note that the regional boundaries may be defined in space or in time. Also, the multiple processors can be implemented within a single video card or separate video graphics cards can be combined, subject to the motherboard and I/O slot limitations. When separate video cards are used, they must be specifically designed to allow a "cross-link" between them.
If a computer has two video cards that combine their outputs into a single video monitor, then one of four methods could be used to create the images.
Alternate Frame Rendering (AFR): One graphics processing unit (GPU) computes all the odd video frames, the other renders the even frames. (i.e. time division)
Split Frame Rendering (SFR): One GPU renders the top half of each video frame, the other does the bottom. (i.e. plane division)
Checker board: As the name implies, the image is split into smaller squares, which are assigned to different cards
Scan-Line Interleave: The origin of the SLI trademark, as employed by the 3dfx Voodoo2, which renders a frame's even scan-lines on the first GPU and its odd scan-lines on the second. The SLI trademark passed to Nvidia upon its acquisition of 3dfx in 2000 and now stands for Scalable Link Interface.
His SLI was Scan-Line Interleave
It's not scaling
If you already have a PS4 why would it matter if PS4 Pro scare you?
Smite & Elder Scrolls online are also native 4K & I'm sure there will be more & this is not upscaling.
gamechanger87
Member
What?
Why in the hell would they downgrade their console that is a year a way to match a console that is releasing to generally tepid reactions from the community that it is too much of a half step?
Scorpio will come out at its proposed specs at $399. I also expect it to contain Zen and be slightly higher than 6TF with 12GB of Ram.
Agreed. The only problem with that is that the install base for the pro would be much smaller and maybe that would lead developers to "skip" NEO/PRO mode patches/options alltogether.
How am I making up the term if it already exist?
Garrett Hawke
Member
That missing lighting will be in the final game. There is no way it won't be. It is very clearly because they're still porting it.
Dictator93
Member
While I can see phenomenological similarities between the old SLi / a version of checkerboarding which combines data into the one frame (ala old crossfire SFR), I do not think one can presume the checkerboarding in PS4pro is generating that presumably combined frame on a similar level (i.e. rendering 2 separately rendered 2x1920X1080 images and then combining them for a 3840X2160 image). Classic SFR - and how the information is sent to the GPU(s) to be rendered (and hence where the term immediate mode comes into play) - is talking about data that is actually being generated and rendered to then be comined in a single frame over the same discreet moment of time. PS4pro is only rendering half of the full frame and - even though this has yet to be discussed by Sony and it probably differs from title to title - generating the rest of that discrete 3840X2160 frame frame though an upscale interpolation from the previous frame. This is kinda like TAA. Thus it has nothing to do with it even needing to to resend information from CPU to GPU about vertexes to be drawn (as I understand it), as no vertexes or anything is actually drawn again for that other half of that frame at all. It is all an upscale and interpolation from the previous frame.
This is how I understand it. Someone who has actually written this kinda stuff for rendering can happily correct me, but I do not think the term is germane to what the PS4pro is doing.
Term co-option (I cannot find a god damn english wiki for this). You are giving the word new meaning deviating from its standard usage. One that also make conversation a bit confusing and honestly obfuscates what we are talking about.
Sniffynose
Member
I don't really give a rats about the 4kPR mode, I'd much rather see what they are doing for 1080p, we know that to render the 4k image they are using more power and doing it at a higher resolution and then applying "checkerboard magic" so the takeaway here is yes maybe games will have lower effects and texture quality at 4kPR since the frame buffer is using more vram and more of the gpu to render the image vs straight 1080p.
The benefit of the 4kPR mode is that it's much sharper on a 4k screen than using an upscaled 1080p signal, and HDR (if your set uses it/uses it at a sub 100ms latency) you get much more natural lighting and added detail which normally is buried in deep black or bright whites.
At this point I expect 1080p to be where the actual changes happen, but Sony wants to sell new TVs, so until we see several comparisons at 1080p, I will be hovering over the cancel button on my pre-order.
The benefit of the 4kPR mode is that it's much sharper on a 4k screen than using an upscaled 1080p signal, and HDR (if your set uses it/uses it at a sub 100ms latency) you get much more natural lighting and added detail which normally is buried in deep black or bright whites.
At this point I expect 1080p to be where the actual changes happen, but Sony wants to sell new TVs, so until we see several comparisons at 1080p, I will be hovering over the cancel button on my pre-order.
CyberPunked
Member
ESO is a last-gen game, and Smite looks like this:
This is, by definition, is upscaling. You take a low resolution image, and apply some stretching algorithm to scale it to a higher resolution.
ESO is a last-gen game, and Smite looks like this:
This is, by definition, is upscaling. You take a low resolution image, and apply some stretching algorithm to scale it to a higher resolution.
Are you talking about checkerboarding? There's no stretching going on, if that's what you're saying. They leave gaps in the image and reuse data from previous frame(s?) to extrapolate what should be in those gaps.
I think upscale is a misnomer, since it's more about reconstructing data than just making an image bigger. More accurate to call it temporal checkerboard reconstruction or something.
That depends on the resolution reconstruction works at. There are still performance trade-offs that can make reconstruction to 3200x1800 and scaling from there to 2160p attractive. It's a slightly softer image, of course, but that's not an unreasonable compromise.
I do hear what you're saying, though, in that far too many are cheerfully characterizing checkerboard reconstruction as upscaling, which it clearly isn't when a prior frame is used to fill in relatively static details. I'm looking forward to learning more about the specific technique that is supported with hardware assistance in the Pro APU.
Meanwhile PC 9 years ago.
9 years ago, many people experienced this game in 1024x768 with medium settings and framedrops below 30.
Still, to this day the game remains amazing.
Yeah, but thats what consoles do these days...
Do you have an actual thing to say with these posts that is not dumb and or trollish? Cause its not amusing
That's some wild fantasy, even if it came out at $400 for a huge loss each, PS4 Pro will be cheaper by then, and when the normal PS4 model gets discontinued, they will be at a huge disadvantage because of the price difference between ps4pro and scorpio. Microsoft is making a console I like more but Sony made the right choices from a business standpoint, and they will probably kill it in sales.
ESO is a last-gen game, and Smite looks like this:
This is, by definition, is upscaling. You take a low resolution image, and apply some stretching algorithm to scale it to a higher resolution.
Series The Elder Scrolls
Platform(s) Microsoft Windows, OS X, PlayStation 4, Xbox One
Release date(s) Microsoft Windows, OS X
April 4, 2014
PlayStation 4, Xbox One
June 9, 2015
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
I'd go for downsampled if I could tell the difference and there was no price difference between the two.
Otherwise, I'd stick with 1080.
yeah I get that, have they not released any 1080p media for the game yet though? Or render something comparable from the PC version(1080p, maybe mid settings)
ShadowkillXNA
Member
You dont know what the price will be. No one does, outside of Microsoft. They probably dont even know yet.
Also no Zen for Scorpio:
http://digiworthy.com/2016/09/11/amd-zen-custom-socs-project-scorpio/