You do realize every time something is run through youtube it gets compressed?
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Digital Foundry: Rise of the Tomb Raider PS4 Pro vs PC 4K
- Thread starter jett
- Start date
You do realize every time something is run through youtube it gets compressed?
paperspace
Member
What makes you so sure?
Garrett Hawke
Member
it's likely because it's still in dev. some effects might not be functioning yet.
Leonidas
Member
My guess is 2704x1521 or 2720x1530. Those are the two perfect 16:9 ratios that are closest to 2x 1080p pixels.
Electret
Member
I respect your honesty.
thelastword
Banned
Anything between 4.1-4.6 million pixels....2880 * 1620 scales nicely to 4k and it's just over 4.6 million pixels, with the added detail on pixels from 2880*1620 to 4k, it should look pretty spiffy, especially with HDR in the mix, also coupled with the really good AA algo's Sony has been using in their first party games..
Horizon and Spider-Man absolutely do. Uncharted 4 surprisingly hasn't really impressed me on the Pro yet but we've hardly seen it. I'm sure ND will get it looking great by release.
Days Gone has actually impressed me the most in terms of pure image quality. It looks pristine and is probably the most convincing in terms of a 4K ouput.
Dinky Dino
Member
Thought it would be upgraded to 12gb vram last minute. I mean some games are pushing for more than 4gb on 1080p and df reported it seemed like the scorpio has 12gb so it didn't seem out there since they did it with the og ps4.
Thats what im seeing too besides everyone whos Played it in person says there Is a noticeable difference from vanilla to pro and here we are comparing it to an expensive high end pc with people claiming victory lol
It's hardly a secret, but it's worth putting there.
Sony isn't doing well with the reveal so far.
rokkerkory
Member
Ram maybe holding it back
Beerman462
Member
If you're trying to render a 4K image, high res textures are even more important. After watching the video the low res textures were very evident in a few scenes especially the tower climbing.
I don't think general audiences will notice or care especially without a side by side comparison.
If the retail game has all the short coming we are seeing it will be the worst version. I can't wait to see the DF articles at that time.
Also whether or not the retail version is as bad as we are seeing I wager a 480 or 1060 will offer a better experience than the PS4 Pro version of the game.
If the missing lighting and lower texture resolution ends up being true. You won't need a high end PC to beat these results. Even a $180 470 would surpass these results.
I don't think general audiences will notice or care especially without a side by side comparison.
If the retail game has all the short coming we are seeing it will be the worst version. I can't wait to see the DF articles at that time.
Also whether or not the retail version is as bad as we are seeing I wager a 480 or 1060 will offer a better experience than the PS4 Pro version of the game.
If the missing lighting and lower texture resolution ends up being true. You won't need a high end PC to beat these results. Even a $180 470 would surpass these results.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A11sj0EiEzs&feature=youtu.be
Given the low quality of the video, made even worse in the comparison video - where everything is blurred, I wouldn't use this video has the end all be all barometer when it comes to judging things. There will be better comparisons when DF gets the ability to capture direct feed. Because the above linked video shows the difference in quality from Tomb Raiders youtube upload to DF's youtube upload.
Equanimity
Member
I agree. I want to see more of UC4 on the Pro as well. And as for Days Gone, you're spot on, I was shocked at how clean the game looked.
I took a few more captures, Days Gone included.
So good.
Beerman462
Member
The deficiencies of the video can't be explained by bad compression, that much is evident. If we are looking at aliasing or artifacts then maybe. The low res textures and missing lighting are obvious, because the PS4 Pro and PC footage are being subjected to the same YouTube compression.
An 8GB 480 will have higher res textures and can run the game at 1440p, which should be very comparable IQ wise even when upscaled. It also won't be missing lighting. PC thus far has benefited from increased LOD in most games. Fallout 4 and Witcher 3 being stand outs.
Of course. But Youtube compression doesn't harm the source much at all when you feed it stills. Here's a stress test I just made: film grain running at 24fps, then in a slideshow.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Yeah sure. But look at the pillar to the left of the red vase here: https://youtu.be/A11sj0EiEzs?t=40s, the same video but at one you can't even see any texture detail, while on the other you can.
It's youtube. That's for one. But then the game video gets even worse when it's reuploaded in the DF video on their youtube page. I don't think their direct feed capture of the PC version is going through two passes of degradation like that. The original upload on Tomb Raider's youtube channel of the PS4 Pro @4k looks far better, then when compared to the same footage reuploaded in DF's comparison.
Beerman462
Member
Are you saying that Eurogamer blurs PS4 footage more than the PC footage? Even still the missing lighting and the "smoking gun" photo in the OP can't be effected to the degree we are seeing by bad compression. Both images look pretty crisp, but the PS4 Pro version is obviously using a lower res texture.
I'll like to know how people go from not expecting this console to be able to do 4K at all to being disappointed that it doesn't match very high settings of a PC at 4K.
People thought I was crazy for even thinking about 4K gaming in this generation but now it's not good enough unless it match very high settings?
People thought I was crazy for even thinking about 4K gaming in this generation but now it's not good enough unless it match very high settings?
Beerman462
Member
1. It's not doing 4K in the traditional sense.
2. It's using Xbox One Texture settings. There is a large gap between that and Very High PC settings. Also texture settings are more reliant on memory space than power.
3.
rokkerkory
Member
Do we have x1 comparison vid?
You do realize, OG PS4's texture settings are the exact same as Xbox One's right? On Rise of the tomb raider, the game's settings are a complete match according to DF. And according to DF, all of these settings are on 'high' for PC, which is just one notch away from the max settings of PC.
So what the checkerboard rendering mode is doing, is rendering PS4 level graphics with more than twice the pixels, giving far higher IQ. Is it easier to grasp now?
Because it's not real 4K, as much as people want to believe it is, and Sony will tell you it is.
So it's like, not only can it not do real 4K, but it still can't match very high settings.
Can we at least get locked 60fps on games? Oh, it's a 45-60 target? Well fuck me.
Not gonna lie, I would have paid an extra $100 if we would have gotten a better console out of it.
Beerman462
Member
Thanks for the super condescending post. My initial post addressed the fact that increased texture resolution is very important for 4K. Also I fully realize that they are basically upressing PS4 graphics meant for 1080p, which will look terrible when viewed in 4K reguardless of how you get there.
Also you are not addressing the missing lighting.
It will have higher resolution textures but the pro renders significantly higher than 1440p and combine that with checkerboard rendering which according to Richard leadbetter produces iq slightly softer than 4k its safe to say the pro is preferable here and a couple of lights missing in a scene here or there seriously who cares
Beerman462
Member
The Pro doesn't render significantly higher than 1440p. The common response is 1800P plus. Durante says that shader based rendering is equivalent to 1527p.
If you are blowing up your textures you want the highest res textures possible.
Bolded: Are you serious. Missing detail? Who cares? I have a slightly better IQ!
1440p with higher res textures is better imo than what we have seen here.
Of course it can do 4K with certain games. And Sony explained their 4K checkerboard mode during their conference, and devs went out of their way to explain it as well. nobody is hiding that the method they are using is checkerboard rendering as opposed to native 4K. They are dumbing it down for people who don't actually even grasp to concept of repojection.
PS Pro is designed to take advantage of higher rendering power to better fit 4K screens. That is way different from saying every game will be native 4K. And also...jaguar is the CPU...i have been telling people for months that you were not getting 60fps, yet now people are outraged because they did not listen?
I'm sorry, i didn't mean to have it come out condescending, i wasn't being patronizing when i said that lastpart, i was really asking if you understood, cause i assumed you were not getting the full picture.
I will disagree that 1080p graphics don't scale well to 4K TV's. Have you seen any of those PC threads where they are rendering last gen games meant for 720p at 4K resolutions? Just beautiful.
Well id take the pros higher res iq over the textures and 1800p to me is significantly higher than what a 470 can do
Beerman462
Member
All things being equal 4K looks better than 1080p.
However, a 1080p image with higher res textures(PC) and better lighting(PC/XB!) looks better than 4K that is missing that.
It remains to be seen if these issues are fixed, but as it is,,
Personal preference and all that, but you are basically saying you would take 4K PS3 graphics over 1080p PS4 graphics. I can't subscribe to this lunacy.
1. It's not doing 4K in the traditional sense.
2. It's using Xbox One Texture settings. There is a large gap between that and Very High PC settings. Also texture settings are more reliant on memory space than power.
3.
Even if it was 4K without checkerboard rendering why would people expect it to match very high settings on a PC? this is crazy because everyone know that PS4 isn't using very high settings at 1080P so why are people expecting these same PS4 settings to all of a sudden change to very high settings when being output in 4K?
Sorry but some of you are acting like kids this console isn't for matching a high end PC at 4K it's meant to give people PS4 games that look good on a 4K TV.
Even if it matched very high settings at a lower resolution scaling it to 4K still wouldn't be matching the PC that is rendering at 4K with very high settings so how did you even expect that?
Some are already visible on static shots.
Yeah it's just funny to me just how weak it still is. I was always hoping they would do something with the CPU.
I understand that people don't want to pay premium for consoles.
DangerMouse
Member
Doesn't seem like it so far on most of the examples. Plus their method doesn't use their custom uprez until after the game is rendered at a resolution much higher than 1080p. Even if it won't be as clean as native 4K on the bigger games that the system has no chance of running at native obviously.
It'll probably vary dev to dev and game to game like all things but a number of the videos including the For Honor 4K PS4Pro videos seem to show what you are saying isn't necessarily true at all on those superclose-ups of the character models, even the clothing textures look like they show even more detail at 4K along with the environment. And that doesn't even use HDR yet since no HDR videos have been posted yet and youtube does not support it and these are still streamed videos and not direct feed.
And with the options devs have we don't even know how some of them will handle things in their patches. Not to mention that in some cases it's very clear that the textures already in these games may already be made with details above the resolution they are originally expected to be shown at, even if they have been "wasted" until now including some that will never be released on PC. The texture details and sharpness on the Tallneck in Horizon's Pro video are pretty nuts.
Anyone who throws FFXII into PCSX2 can tell you it's ridiculous some of the details brought out in that game if you have a PC that can max out the raised internal resolution. Why S-E made textures and included them on the disc to such a level that couldn't even be made out in the muddy, compressed PS2 game is what you think about when you look at some of it.
That is their choice, that is the point of an iterative optional unit. Indeed, its not mandatory in the least,as Sony likely predicted that people may not immediately see the difference as long as the graphics stayed the same and game experiences stayed the same. Indeed.
Check out Horizon's checkerboard rendered video. absolutely superb.
Beerman462
Member
You will notice I'm not commenting on Shadows, SSAO, AA, or Quality of lighting. I'm commenting specifically on lack of lighting and high res textures needed to exploit higher resolution.
If the PS4 Pro has to sacrifice things like texture resolution and lighting to attain fauxK than it's pointless.
Equanimity
Member
Do you think GG and Bend are sacrificing texture resolution and lighting to achieve reconstructed 4K in Horizon and Days Gone?
Lol... 1080p is not even close to its limits.
It would look just like in those comparison shots or a bit better.
Is that in comparison to PS4 1080P or are you still comparing it to the PC very high settings? we been seeing these difference between PC higher settings & PS4/Xbox One before PS4 Pro ever tried 4K.
Fredrik
Member
I thought Sony said that it was meant for those sitting on the fence thinking about buying a PC mid-gen. Question is, will those people change their mind because PS4 games get 4K resolutions or was it the PC's graphics and framerates they were after?
Personally I think this console is a strategic failure, it wasn't needed, they were already winning this generation, I wouldn't be surprised if PS4Pro will scare away more people than it'll win over.
GhostOfSparta305
Banned
GAF's response says the latter, but I'm not sure things would've gone over well if Sony dedicated an entire conference to advertising PS4Pro's 1080p and 60fps. Especially since they've been promising that since 2005.
They had to focus on new technology we hadn't seen before, hence 4K and HDR, even though it's pretty obvious that most gamers won't be using it immediately.
That's correct. Nothing that can be done about that.
The original file from SE is already pretty low quality and then re-encoding it and sending it through YT again makes things much worse.
Here's an image from the original MP4 before YT. This is what SE's feed from their press server looks like this before YT adds additional compression. I'm almost thinking that the video they put up on YT is different than the one from their server.
...and yes, this is obviously just a preview of sorts focusing more on the missing details that are plain as day. A pure fact checking exercise on the current in-development state of the game. No judgement has been passed yet.
Look how fast Wii sales dropped when Xbox 360 & PS3 started making motion control games , so think about how fast PS4 is selling why would Sony want to give it a chance to fall like the Wii did? PS4 Pro keeps that momentum going instead of being left behind as people fall into the 4K craze.
All this hyperhole is mostly fake how can you really be upset about being able to get better console graphics for around the same price the console was selling for a few months ago? before the PS4 Pro came out you still would have paid about $399 for a PS4 with a 1TB harddrive anyone who is being scared away by this is silly.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
I think people were expecting better textures, which isn't a an unreasonable expectation, but one that I guess isn't always going to happen with big games like this due to RAM limitations.
MilkyJoe
Member
Are there even any threads for that?
All of this makes me think this is true.
A DC7900?
What a silly thing to say.